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hobbesmaster posted:What country do you live in? You are absolutely charged for medevacs in the US. Canada makes you pay for search and rescue too, though I think if it's a genuine emergency not caused by your own stupidity, I think it might be covered.
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Jan 27, 2015 14:39
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Men and boys first? Nah, everyone hang out on board with the doors shut until we all die of smoke inhalation.
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Jan 27, 2015 15:59
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mobby_6kl posted:Apparently a Greek F-16 crashed during takeoff on a Spanish air base, killing 10 and injuring another dozen One of the wounded died in hospital, so the tally is now 11 dead: both pilots of the Greek F-16, and nine people from the French Air Force that they crashed into. (They destroyed two AlphaJets and one Mirage 2000D, killing the pilots and ground personnel that were standing near these aircraft.)
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Jan 27, 2015 16:09
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Linedance posted:Canada makes you pay for search and rescue too, though I think if it's a genuine emergency not caused by your own stupidity, I think it might be covered. Really? Every year in BC we get idiot skiers/boarders going out of bounds and getting lost and having to be found by helicopter and every year the media is all "Should idiots pay for their rescue?" And the answer is always no because then they wouldn't call for help, being idiots and all. There was just one who was lost in Whistler for 3 days who said "yeah I'll go out of bounds again but next time I'll bring a friend!" Once she was found and put on the news to be "shamed" but they found she has none, apparently.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:08
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priznat posted:Really? Every year in BC we get idiot skiers/boarders going out of bounds and getting lost and having to be found by helicopter and every year the media is all "Should idiots pay for their rescue?" And the answer is always no because then they wouldn't call for help, being idiots and all. Huh, I'm sure I read about people picking up the tab. Just looking into it, it seems it's up to the province to administrate, and it can be either the RCMP, Parks Canada, or the Provincial Police who's jurisdiction it falls under. So maybe sometimes yes and maybe sometimes no?
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Jan 27, 2015 17:36
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Maybe foreign tourists who haven't paid into the welfare system through taxes get charged?
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Jan 27, 2015 17:39
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priznat posted:Really? Every year in BC we get idiot skiers/boarders going out of bounds and getting lost and having to be found by helicopter and every year the media is all "Should idiots pay for their rescue?" And the answer is always no because then they wouldn't call for help, being idiots and all. To be fair the exact wording was quote:"It's stupid to do what I do," said Abrahamsen. "I'm just too enthusiastic when the powder is there on the mountain, I guess. Forgive me for that." And I'm sure that the Norwegian government is gonna cough up money to pay for the medevac if only to save face.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:54
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MrYenko posted:That thing is like the fat girl at the dance: Everything about helicopters is crazy. ... I have 10 of them that I fly in my house. You've got a fuselage that's sitting in the downwash of a huge fan. Somehow retracting landing gear actually help. They frequently have horizontal stabilizers, with controllable surfaces on them? The rotors live on the edge of destroying the darned thing. If you fly forward, you get MUCH better lift. If you try to land fast, you can crash because of your own downwash. Those rotor blades, are attached on flap and drag hinges, so they swing forward and backwards with every rotation of the rotor head, independent of the collective setting. Oh, that collective thing, controls the angle of rotor blades with finger sized rods. And then there's ground resonance, where if those flap and drag hinges get out of wack, the blades can bunch up on one side of the airframe and shake the ever living poo poo out of your tinfoil flying machine. Thinking up all the ways a helicopter mechanics and aerodynamics can aggressively take action against the pilot and passengers is a great way to feel uneasy about flying. And this is the "easy" way to do it. The hard way requires computers, gyros, and fast responding motors.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:54
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[/qiuote] Funny, you use the plane that taught us about roll coupling and killing pilots to talk about dancing. That girl CAN NOT dance.
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The horizontal control surfaces (that look like an elevator on a plane) are designed to equalize control response between lateral and longitudinal inputs. Because of the tail boom a conventional helicopter is much longer than it is wide, creating very different moments for cyclic inputs left or right vs forward or backward, so the stabilator (yes) schedules to help mitigate that. It can also be programmed to control airframe attitude in different flight modes, like helping to lower the nose for forward visibility during an approach.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:01
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Guy who crashed the quadcopter drone into the White House lawn was (a) drunk and (b) and employee of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/28/us/white-house-drone.html
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Jan 27, 2015 21:07
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hobbesmaster posted:What country do you live in? You are absolutely charged for medevacs in the US. I live in the US. PNW to be more specific. Just started volunteering SAR with a local group never once heard of anyone being charged for it. The county picks up most of the tab and if the USAF gets involved (and rolls a Pavehawk down a mountain in the process) they write it under training budgets. Now the "last mile" evac is going to cost you, not going to get a free ride to the hospital in an ambo, or a free Life Flight ride to the trauma hospital. You can get line hauled out of a fumarole by Portland Mountain Reduce and helo evaced to the hospital later. Or airlifted by the ANG because you broke a crampon, slid 400ft and shattered your pelvis and can't walk out. Neither the ANG or PMR is/can charge you. There's something to be said about the difference between being willfully negligent and poo poo Just Happening(TM). I'm unaware of any of the latter cases resulting in the rescued being charged by the SAR group. SeaborneClink fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 21:15
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iyaayas01 posted:Nah, everyone hang out on board with the doors shut until we all die of smoke inhalation. Wikipedia posted:Saudi officials subsequently found two butane stoves in the burned-out remains of the airliner, with a used fire extinguisher near one of them. Some Middle Eastern airlines used to allow devout Muslim passengers to use butane stoves on board in order to observe Islam's strict dietary laws – a practice unthinkable on Western airlines.  What part of Halal requires an open flame at all times?
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Jan 28, 2015 01:59
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:
I'm not sure, but it is extremely depressing to think they actually landed safely and then asphyxiated during the landing roll. It's the literal opposite of the accident that killed Stan Rogers.
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Jan 28, 2015 02:18
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Linedance posted:Canada makes you pay for search and rescue too, though I think if it's a genuine emergency not caused by your own stupidity, I think it might be covered. Not in BC as someone else said, it is mostly done by volunteers (paid for via grants from the government, donations etc) and the navy and or coast guard depending on the situation. If you are a BC resident you will be charged the same for an air ambulance ride as you would for a normal ambulance (nominal fee around $100 I think). Canada does not charge fees as far as I know, but it does happen sometimes (I remember it happening at grouse mountain ski area I think but I think that is because the ski hill foots the bill). Search and rescue is a service provided by at no cost to the user or people would be less likely to use it and die. There are limitations such as they wont bring out injured pets etc. I have a feeling part of it is the same reason fire departments rescue cats from trees, it is not that they care about the cat but if they don't someone else will try and likely injure themselves and require medical response so in some ways it is preventative.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:15
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Dread Head posted:Not in BC as someone else said, it is mostly done by volunteers (paid for via grants from the government, donations etc) and the navy and or coast guard depending on the situation. If you are a BC resident you will be charged the same for an air ambulance ride as you would for a normal ambulance (nominal fee around $100 I think). Canada does not charge fees as far as I know, but it does happen sometimes (I remember it happening at grouse mountain ski area I think but I think that is because the ski hill foots the bill). Search and rescue is a service provided by at no cost to the user or people would be less likely to use it and die. There are limitations such as they wont bring out injured pets etc. I've been doing some searching, and all I can say is i must have imagined it. No idea where I thought I saw it, but I can't find any evidence of reports of being fined for false alarms or getting rescued for being a dumbass.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:26
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Linedance posted:I've been doing some searching, and all I can say is i must have imagined it. No idea where I thought I saw it, but I can't find any evidence of reports of being fined for false alarms or getting rescued for being a dumbass. They try and scare people on the news by putting the "Rescue Cost" up to show what I should cost to be saved like that.
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Jan 28, 2015 05:07
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SeaborneClink posted:Zero. For the same reason that emergency response to medical/survival/rescues emergencies in the back country doesn't cost. Unless you live in New Hampshire Can't speak for the US, but people are charged for medivacs, ambulances and back woods rescues all the time even in magnificent Socialist Paradise of Canada. I would be genuinely surprised if the US didn't.
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Jan 28, 2015 15:22
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Can you call in and say "I'm in a lot of troble, but not Premium trouble. Give me the Super Saver Search & Rescue package please."?
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Jan 28, 2015 15:33
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Ola posted:Can you call in and say "I'm in a lot of troble, but not Premium trouble. Give me the Super Saver Search & Rescue package please."? How many Kongbucks would you actually be saving, though?
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Jan 28, 2015 15:41
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I used to live in the middle of the alps and I swear during summer/winter high season the medevac helos would hardly take breaks.
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Jan 28, 2015 15:48
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DJI pushed out a firmware update that disables their drones within a 15.5 mile radius of Washington, DC. http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/28/dji-drone-update-bars-washington-flights/?ncid=rss_truncated
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Jan 28, 2015 16:47
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Colonial Air Force posted:I mean, it has wheels! That retract!!! She also says that Airwolf is a lifting body, and later in the same episode they mention the "rotor re-engaging" as they drop back to subsonic speeds. And I haven't watched the pilot in years.
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Jan 28, 2015 17:16
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Ola posted:Can you call in and say "I'm in a lot of troble, but not Premium trouble. Give me the Super Saver Search & Rescue package please."? and your estate will still be charged for the bag and extraction 
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Jan 28, 2015 18:18
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slidebite posted:Sure, but the super saver package is via a body bag. A water bomber flies to your location and drops a trail of breadcrumbs leading to the nearest road.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:27
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Boomerjinks posted:How many Kongbucks would you actually be saving, though? Alternately - charged on a sliding scale depending on how much their "lifetime net worth" is calculated as A richer kid with a beard who gets stuck on a mountain due to his own arrogance and incompetence - no charge A poor but highly experienced group of mountaineers who get caught in a freak avalanche and some of them die and the survivors have broken limbs - hope you enjoyed owning your own home buddy 
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Jan 28, 2015 18:50
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slidebite posted:Can't speak for the US, but people are charged for medivacs, ambulances and back woods rescues all the time even in magnificent Socialist Paradise of Canada. I would be genuinely surprised if the US didn't. Ironically, the really big and expensive backwoods and open-ocean rescues usually don't cost anything for the person who's rescued - they're handled by search and rescue volunteers or military/Coast Guard/national guard. Get hurt in a city park, though, and you or your insurance will probably be paying tens of thousands of dollars for an ambulance ride.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:01
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Space Gopher posted:Ironically, the really big and expensive backwoods and open-ocean rescues usually don't cost anything for the person who's rescued - they're handled by search and rescue volunteers or military/Coast Guard/national guard. Get hurt in a city park, though, and you or your insurance will probably be paying tens of thousands of dollars for an ambulance ride. I've already said as much, and I'm not going to continue to post about it in a thread about airplanes. Here is a 2005 report that scratches the surface. quote:The National Park Service in 2003 spent $3.5 million for personnel, supplies, aircraft and vessels to respond to 3,108 search and rescue missions, an average of $1,116 per incident The lion's share of cost in SAR is not the actual rescue itself, because once you move to the rescue (or recovery  ) phase it's a given that you know where you need to go/be. I would say generally the cost breakdown is something like 95%+:5%- search:rescue. If you know where <thing> is you can begin to come up with a plan to fox the problem. If you have no idea where the thing you're looking for, and there's still a chance of rescue, it's going to be all hands on deck, 110% effort. Once there is no reasonable expectation of rescue and the operation moves to 'Recovery’ phase, operations get scaled way, way back and costs follow accordingly. Look no further than the 96 hours after MH370 disappeared compared to the amount of search personnel still working that. quote:The Mountain Rescue Association, an umbrella organization representing 90+ volunteer rescue groups in the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom, specifically opposes charging for rescue services, and no MRA-affiliated rescue team currently charges for rescue services. Emphasis mine. Having someone delay or abstain from asking for help exponentially complicates rescue operations. You go from being able to potentially walk/assist someone out of a situation with a sprained/broken ankle, or shattered femur, to evacing someone with a real potential for lifelong impairment, bodily damage or even death which leads to searching for a body, because for the first 48 hours they tried to hump it out on their own because there was a possibility of them having to pay out of pocket, for something 90% of people probably couldn't afford. Oregon and a few other states have laws on the books to allow recovery costs to be recovered or offset, this law was passed in 1995, 20 years ago, it's been applied once; Once in over 10,000 rescues performed by the Air Force, Coast Guard, National Guard, Civil Air Patrol, statewide mountain rescue groups and 36 county sheriff offices in the state. Like Godholio said before that C130 crew was already out there, so why not divert to assist and be able to log it for training. I'm going to stop posting about this now, if anyone would like to continue the discussion this would be a much more appropriate venue for it.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:07
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SeaborneClink posted:Like Godholio said before that C130 crew was already out there, so why not divert to assist and be able to log it for training. The UK armed forces have generally provided helicopter rescues in the UK. Since part of their job is to pick up soldiers from interesting places or to medievac them (and all sorts of similar tasks), they can either fly around pointlessly on training or they can go help actual real people. The latter both provides better training and also helps others at the same time. Pretty much win win.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:56
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The next you dips start DRONECHAT protestations and hang wringing in just going to empty quote this. http://youtu.be/3jwPaFp8nMg lolfaa
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Jan 28, 2015 22:56
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Woops.
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Jan 29, 2015 01:26
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Gear collapse? You can see his wee lil left MLG sticking out there. Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat's gonna be expensive.
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Jan 29, 2015 01:31
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Duke Chin posted:Gear collapse? You can see his wee lil left MLG sticking out there. Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat's gonna be expensive. Article on the aviationist* says brake caught fire after landing. *The Aviationist posts pretty pictures, but is not a reliable source at all.
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Jan 29, 2015 01:35
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Duke Chin posted:Gear collapse? You can see his wee lil left MLG sticking out there. Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat's gonna be expensive. Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaates!
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Jan 29, 2015 02:56
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Even crashed and sitting in a pool of fireman moneyshot that thing is still so unreal looking it seems like a concept render overlaid on a photograph.
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Jan 29, 2015 03:41
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Ambihelical Hexnut posted:Even crashed and sitting in a pool of fireman moneyshot that thing is still so unreal looking it seems like a concept render overlaid on a photograph. "This is an artist's rendering of what an F-22 may someday look like when it suffers a landing gear failure..." That freaky gold canopy really does look like something out of a video game, trying to show off their sweet shader effects.
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Jan 29, 2015 04:33
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They should have just went with that cool chrome / gold like astronaut EVA helmets. The plane is still surreal looking though, I'm half expecting the next set of pictures of it to be in its GERWALK mode hobbling away.
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Jan 29, 2015 04:57
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I think you guys got it all wrong. That F-22 is from Elmo. Alaska is having a Really lame winter. That pilot just got his crew a much-needed, much-longer mid-winter deployment to Hickam and is probably in line for all the complimentary mai-tais he can choke down.
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Jan 29, 2015 06:21
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Advent Horizon posted:I think you guys got it all wrong. It was on the way in to some HIANG exercise...so more like mx now gets to have fun meeting the same flying schedule with one less jet while also supporting the depot field team figuring out if the drat plane is even repairable. Now if he had pulled that poo poo on the last day and "forced" a stay-behind MRT to get another 30 days in Hawaii? Yeah that'd be a different story.
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Jan 29, 2015 07:10
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Wingnut Ninja posted:That freaky gold canopy really does look like something out of a video game, trying to show off their sweet shader effects. 
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Jan 29, 2015 12:43
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Any Prowler dudes around? Or Vulturesrow? I saw one on a ~2 mile final to HST the other day on my way home, and that fucker seemed to just hang there, final was a converging course with the highway I was on, and it made the relative visual movement just about perfectly zero. It was SLOW. What are the normal approach speeds like for a Prowler? Or for a Hornet? Are runway approaches/landings done any differently than to a carrier?
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Jan 29, 2015 13:16
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