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I tend to reread books I enjoy, and Malazan is so dense and packed with information that it's taken to another level. That, and after having started the series when, IIRC, RG had just been released, I've pretty much done a reread for every new book since. So one each for TtH, DoD, TCG, and FoD. Uh, so maybe this audiobook reread is actually my 6th time through the series. 
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Jan 27, 2015 02:06
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Habibi posted:I tend to reread books I enjoy, and Malazan is so dense and packed with information that it's taken to another level. That, and after having started the series when, IIRC, RG had just been released, I've pretty much done a reread for every new book since. So one each for TtH, DoD, TCG, and FoD. Uh, so maybe this audiobook reread is actually my 6th time through the series. Seconding this, although I am only on my third reread with DoD and TCG left after a detour through FoD. Although I started the series when DG came out. I went through LotR 5 times, so there is still a possibility it will happen with Erikson.
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Jan 27, 2015 08:09
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Hey, it's not implausible to have reread it four times. Last two in English as opposed to my language, too. I used to have a lot more free time and this series is one of the best things to have happened to fantasy in ages.
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Jan 27, 2015 11:36
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mischief posted:Man, Deadhouse Gates gets even more soul crushingly sad each time you read it. I get more like this each read of Midnight Tides; That book has just grown and grown on me over the years, and went from 'What, who the gently caress are these people?' to one of my best loved in the whole series.
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Jan 27, 2015 13:33
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Nearly done with GotM and I have to say "Hood's Balls!" is probably my new favorite fantasy curse of all time. And "Whiskeyjack" is one of the coolest names ever.
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Jan 27, 2015 15:24
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I figured everyone loved Midnight Tides cause it owns.
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Jan 27, 2015 15:42
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Hand Row posted:I figured everyone loved Midnight Tides cause it owns. It does, but I think it catches a lot of people off guard what with a large and completely new cast of characters, winding time back some years, etc... I know one friend of mine was loving the series and then had so much trouble adjusting to the above that he stopped reading like a tenth of the way through and never came back to it. Too bad for him.
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Jan 27, 2015 16:19
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Just finished GotM hot drat that book was awesome. I'd have read a 10 book series if that was the level of quality to expect throughout, and it supposedly gets way better than that? I'm so in.  firing an explosive crossbow bolt at a god was loving awesome
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Jan 27, 2015 17:01
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Damo posted:Just finished GotM hot drat that book was awesome. I'd have read a 10 book series if that was the level of quality to expect throughout, and it supposedly gets way better than that? I'm so in. You're going to loooove the beginning of Deadhouse Gate. And yes the series gets dramatically better.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:27
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It may be interesting to keep a tally of just how many various powers get cussered at some point of the series. I know the sappers are overplayed as hell, but I just love that bit of Malazan lore, they're what makes the military sections readable for me.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:39
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Kruppe is the Eel. gently caress everything 
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Jan 27, 2015 18:06
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Habibi posted:It does, but I think it catches a lot of people off guard what with a large and completely new cast of characters, winding time back some years, etc... I know one friend of mine was loving the series and then had so much trouble adjusting to the above that he stopped reading like a tenth of the way through and never came back to it. Too bad for him. Even reading a 10th of the way in would've exposed your friend to Tehol & Bugg scene or two, if he wasn't hooked by Letherii roof-based financial shenanigans he might be a lost cause.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:19
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Rarity posted:Kruppe is the Eel. gently caress everything You must have seen that coming...
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Jan 27, 2015 18:53
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Rarity posted:Kruppe is the Eel. gently caress everything  I like Kruppe and even more for every reread. Habibi posted:You're going to loooove the beginning of Deadhouse Gate. I started the series with DG, and those loving endings just left me begging for more. Of the books in the series, it has the most grim ending and it is only book 2. I still argue that book 2 is as good of an introduction to the series as GotM.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:13
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Cardiac posted:
I sort of feel that most of the books, barring the last two or three, are good introductions. Regardless of where you start, you're going to have no idea what the hell is going on at first, and will really only start putting the pieces together when you come back around the other side. Hell, MT might even be the best starting point, as it takes place in nearly its entirety before most of the events of the other books, Re: DG - the conclusion of the Chain of Dogs was indeed grim, but it was also somewhat telegraphed, and I definitely got more of a 'punch in the gut' feeling from MoI. And after that it got really hard to judge other difficult plotlines objectively, because any hope that some bets might still be on was irrevocably shattered (though the Darujistani convergence sequence in TtH(?) was close).
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Jan 27, 2015 20:25
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How both the Felisins ended was the gutpunch for me. Bridgeburners, Bonehunters, & the other Malazan armies were following the fate of soldiers: a random pointless death was their default option.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:20
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:How both the Felisins ended was the gutpunch for me. Bridgeburners, Bonehunters, & the other Malazan armies were following the fate of soldiers: a random pointless death was their default option. That's just weird. The impact of Whiskeyjack's death was magnitudes greater than the fate of either of the Felisins.
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Jan 27, 2015 23:49
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Not for me it wasn't. That character really got on my tits first read through.
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Jan 27, 2015 23:59
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Rarity posted:Kruppe is the Eel. gently caress everything Why is this a bad thing exactly? Also it's pretty obvious by like halfway through the book.
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Jan 28, 2015 04:56
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Speaking of The Eel, I can't remember who Circle Breaker turned out to be. Was it Kalam? (GOTM spoiler)
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Jan 28, 2015 05:19
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neurotech posted:Speaking of The Eel, I can't remember who Circle Breaker turned out to be. Was it Kalam? (GOTM spoiler) No. He's not anybody in particular, just a spy for Kruppe who gets compensated at the end for his work.
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Jan 28, 2015 05:32
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neurotech posted:Speaking of The Eel, I can't remember who Circle Breaker turned out to be. Was it Kalam? (GOTM spoiler) Nope but he does get one of the few happy endings
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Jan 28, 2015 05:41
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Habibi posted:I sort of feel that most of the books, barring the last two or three, are good introductions. Regardless of where you start, you're going to have no idea what the hell is going on at first, and will really only start putting the pieces together when you come back around the other side. Hell, MT might even be the best starting point, as it takes place in nearly its entirety before most of the events of the other books, Yeah, I would argue that GotM, DG and MT are equally good starting points, maybe HoC as well for the Karsa-bits. I was never that much of a fan of Whiskeyjack, so that didn't hit me so hard. His death is also only like one page as well. But MoI have Itkovian and also Brukhalian (I have a thing for heroes going to their death knowingly) were the best parts. Also, the redemption of the Pannin Domin Jaghut was pretty moving. Kilava is still a bitch though, and that is consistent throughout the series.
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Jan 28, 2015 07:36
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rejutka posted:Not for me it wasn't. That character really got on my tits first read through. Then again, I'm apparently the only one here who actually likes her.
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Jan 28, 2015 07:41
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I'm trying to read this series for second time (first time I read couple of books I think) but I still don't 'get' it... Yep, completely lost in Gardens of Moon again. Around chapter 6. I don't understand how it's so hard for me as all sorts of supergeeks who are hardly professors of literature seem to enjoy Malazan so much. But I just don't understand how it's possible to enjoy this if you don't enjoy going to internet after every chapter..? It's very hard to remember all the characters and analyzing poo poo in D&D-fantasy book feels like a huge waste of time. (Yeah I even tried that for awhile and the Tor Malazan reread is just making me depressed when I read about all the things I'm supposed to catch, even the first-time reader seems to understand like 5x more than me....) Does it get easier to read these like normal books (no 2 hours of wiki research for every page) if you struggle through first ones (last time I tried it didn't...)? I know there's lots of cool poo poo in the series that really makes me want to finish it one day. Help please? mallamp fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 08:38
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If you really can't get through book 1, just read a summary and try book 2. If book 2 isn't your thing then I wouldn't persist.
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Jan 28, 2015 09:16
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mallamp posted:I'm trying to read this series for second time (first time I read couple of books I think) but I still don't 'get' it... Yep, completely lost in Gardens of Moon again. Around chapter 6. Eh, Eriksons books are more or less stand-alone and that is the way you should read them. Let things be a mystery and trust that almost every storyline will be resolved. You are putting way to much  in to this, and more than I ever did. I only check the wiki for quick reminders about different characters, and trying to make sense out of everything directly is completely alien to me when I read a new book.
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Jan 28, 2015 09:18
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mallamp posted:I'm trying to read this series for second time (first time I read couple of books I think) but I still don't 'get' it... Yep, completely lost in Gardens of Moon again. Around chapter 6. It may not be your thing. It's hardly the be all end all of literary fiction. I wouldn't stress about the series density though, there's stuff that's in there that rewards rereads and careful attention, but the narrative stands on it's own even if you're skimming and miss half of it. And if that still doesn't float your boat, drop it. Lost in GotM is fairly common, tho, and the consensus is that it's most confusing of the books. Book 2 and 3 are generally considered some of the best the series has, and if you don't dig it, you probably don't dig the series. If you are Wikiing each page that's not enjoyable at all, don't do that. The re-reads might be nice to have to go back to after each chapter and read both reactions, if you're into that.
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Jan 28, 2015 11:01
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mallamp posted:I'm trying to read this series for second time (first time I read couple of books I think) but I still don't 'get' it... Yep, completely lost in Gardens of Moon again. Around chapter 6. I'm almost at the end of GotM and I understand this feeling. My version has a forward by Erikson saying 'things will not make sense for a while' so I just figured it was ok to not understand things. I kept on reading and focused on the characters and the bits that did make sense and the story slowly came together. I still don't know how Warrens work, I don't really get what the difference is between a Moranth and a Tiste Andii and a T'lan Imass but that doesn't really matter to enjoy what's going. Try not worrying about understanding everything and just roll with it. Damo posted:Why is this a bad thing exactly? Also it's pretty obvious by like halfway through the book. That character is annoying and I was hoping for something way cooler. And yes, I had figured it out a little before the reveal but I'm still annoyed
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Jan 28, 2015 11:38
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(Spoilers across the whole series!) Sorry, but the taking of the pain of the T'lan Imass by Itkovian is probably the biggest Holy gently caress moment for me in the whole series. I feel genuinely moved by that section, there's just something flawless about it. There's a pile of other points that come close Trull's End (Everything involving Trull, really), Kalam vs. The Claw and the end of the Chain of Dogs but that one still sits above the rest for me. Oh, and the whole arc involving Toc & Tool. OH GODDAMNIT I'M GONNA GO START ANOTHER READ THROUGH.
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Jan 28, 2015 11:55
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mallamp posted:I know there's lots of cool poo poo in the series that really makes me want to finish it one day. Help please? A good story doesn't have to explain everything that's going on to you. If things were clearly and concisely explained every page it would make a really boring story. And I'm not just talking about these books, I'm talking about stories in general. Good stories are about denying you information as much as giving you information, and these books are kind of built on that idea. Every book has a couple of surface stories that are easy to follow, but then there are some other stories lurking beneath the surface that you probably won't pick up until later books, or until you reread them. If you find a word or character that you don't recognize, just keep reading and forget about it. It drifts together over time. 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 12:45
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:A good story doesn't have to explain everything that's going on to you. Anyway, I guess I'll keep trying and just approach the series like a string of short stories and stop reading wikis and stuff since I don't like that anyway. Hopefully it'll be worth it..
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Jan 28, 2015 13:11
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I honestly liked figuring out the stories and relations behind what we're told on my own. A lot. Especially when FoD hit the shelves and told me I got it all wrong. But to each his own I guess.
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Jan 28, 2015 13:17
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mallamp posted:I'm a Brandon Sanderson fan, sorry. That explains it then. Remember that discussion we had about Sanderson a couple of pages back, seems I was right regarding the opinion that fans of Sanderson have problem with Erikson and vice versa.
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Jan 28, 2015 14:38
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Cardiac posted:
Sanderson is probably my favorite fantasy author at this time, and I still love the gently caress out of this series. I just love his style (and speed) of writing. I can understand why people don't dig his style though. However, I currently rank some of his books up near some of Erikson's as far as my enjoyment of them goes. I'm also a dumb poo poo when it comes to reading, which might explain my tolerance for nearly any fantasy book. I never pick up foreshadowing and hinting, even when it's supposed to be completely obvious. It makes reading books so awesome. That big reveal you probably knew was coming all along? Yeah, I didn't pick up the foreshadowing at all and everytime it's a "Holy loving poo poo!" moment. Makes me feel stupid when discussing the books with others, but I get so much enjoyment out of it I don't question it.
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Jan 28, 2015 15:16
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Cardiac posted:Yeah, I would argue that GotM, DG and MT are equally good starting points, maybe HoC quote:I was never that much of a fan of Whiskeyjack, so that didn't hit me so hard. His death is also only like one page as well. Thing about Whiskeyjack, for me anyway, wasn't his strength as a standalone character - although I liked his character plenty - but his significance to the empire, his soldiers (and other major characters) and the recent history of the world, in general. Yeah, his death was one page, but I actually think that lent it more impact because of how suddenly and unexpectedly he went out, both for the reader and for the observers in the book. For all the tragedy present in DG, very little of it isn't foreshadowed to a large extent. Whiskeyjack was a nearly mythical figure within the Empire, and his death was a critical blow. And you left out the continuing misadventures of Toc the Younger. That was both more compelling and significantly harder for me to read than anything to do with Felisin. Witness! But then, I found Felisin to be sort of the Sansa of the Malazan world, jumping from one bad decision to another. Her story was interesting - largely because of the surrounding cast of characters and the actual exploits - but as an individual character, bleh 02-6611-0142-1 posted:A good story doesn't have to explain everything that's going on to you. mallamp posted:I'm a Brandon Sanderson fan, sorry. Oh. Seriously, though, you are probably thinking about it too hard. Just read GotM, don't worry about not catching references, foreshadowing, etc.. Try to get the basics, and move on. Things will get less confusing as you read. Just keep in mind that you will never get the massive infodump that Sanderson is known for. You will get clues, you will get hints, you will get excerpts, you will get information from the perspective of the characters themselves, but you will have to put most of it together and filter out the inaccuracies yourself. I think for most Erikson fans, that's probably one of the more enjoyable aspects of the series (the unbelievable world-building, stories, and ability to juggle and weave dozens of plotlines being the others)
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Jan 28, 2015 18:02
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Habibi posted:But then, I found Felisin to be sort of the Sansa of the Malazan world, So in other words, a sympathetic and relateable character in horrible circumstances who reacts very much the way an actual person of her age and class would?  Speaking of which, I'm surprised the circumstances of her death never came up during The Crippled God. I kept expecting someone to spill the secret to Tavore and completely devastate her, probably right when she was needed as a commander. Instead, unless I missed something, it never comes out and she goes on just thinking her sister disappeared into the otataral mines.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:11
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:So in other words, a sympathetic and relateable character in horrible circumstances who reacts very much the way an actual person of her age and class would? That's a description that applies to plenty of less annoying and more interesting characters throughout both series, but, I suppose, if you relate to spitefully annoying people with poor decision making skills, then yes. Re: the rest, I just assumed Tavore knew, and there was consequently no plot reason to bring it up.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:31
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:A good story doesn't have to explain everything that's going on to you. If things were clearly and concisely explained every page it would make a really boring story. And I'm not just talking about these books, I'm talking about stories in general. Good stories are about denying you information as much as giving you information, and these books are kind of built on that idea. Every book has a couple of surface stories that are easy to follow, but then there are some other stories lurking beneath the surface that you probably won't pick up until later books, or until you reread them. If you find a word or character that you don't recognize, just keep reading and forget about it. It drifts together over time. Having just finished Toll the Hounds I feel like I have most of the first book's mysteries solved - yeah, after the 8th book in the series. I'm currently doubting my conviction to re-read the whole series once I'm done but I'm probably going straight back to GotM once I finish The Crippled God. Toll the Hounds really escalated there though, holy. Once Murillio gets whacked it really starts hitting breakneck speed: Traveller vs. Rake, Kallor vs. Spinnock (then Korlat/Orfantal), Envy + Spite vs hounds of darkness, Karsa + Seguleh 2nd vs. hounds of light, Hood/Draconus/Bridgeburners/Grey Swords/The Seventh/Dujek vs Chaos. I still don't quite get what the deal with Dragnipur and Chaos was. Did Draconus create Dragnipur to contain Chaos and at the same time, give the Tiste Andii Kurald Galain? If Dragnipur is destroyed, doesn't that mean Chaos is free to roam around again? Why did Rake's soul (in Dragnipur) have to die to create the new gate in Black Coral? gently caress I think I'm more confused than before I started the novel now. I take that first statement back I still don't know what the hell is going on.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:11
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I don't know if it's common knowledge around here, but Amazon has Fall of Light listed as releasing in about 2 weeks. Get ready to have the world flipped upside down again...Habibi posted:That's a description that applies to plenty of less annoying and more interesting characters throughout both series, but, I suppose, if you relate to spitefully annoying people with poor decision making skills, then yes.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:13
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