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tezcat posted:Actually your the one not making much sense and trying so very hard to strawman. Do you think that there is an issue with White Officers using unneeded lethal force on black people they think are armed with a gun? Yes/No? Well, I would start with disarming cops (and people in general) rather than trying to train humans to do the impossible (consistently exhibit accurate perception in stressful situations). But hey, mischaracterize people and advocate for unsustainable approaches if you want.
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Jan 28, 2015 14:59
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Remember that trooper that got busted stealing nudie pics from people he would arrest? quote:A now-former California Highway Patrol (CHP) officer who was charged with criminal felony charges after seizing and distributing racy photos copied from arrestees’ phones has pleaded no contest and will serve no jail time. Police defenders might bring up the idea that if he hadn't been a police officer he would have gotten a lighter sentence.Well, if he wasn't a police officer, he probably wouldn't have been able to handcuff someone and steal nudie pics off their phone....
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Jan 28, 2015 19:33
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Trabisnikof posted:Remember that trooper that got busted stealing nudie pics from people he would arrest? Are you complaining about the plea deal or are you just posting this to strawman "police defenders"
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Jan 28, 2015 22:45
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Jarmak posted:Are you complaining about the plea deal or are you just posting this to strawman "police defenders" I don't think any of the "police defenders" in this thread claim that there are no legitimate cases of police misconduct, or that police who are actually guilty of misconduct shouldn't be held accountable so, like you, I don't really get the point of this. Cop punished for breaking law. Sounds like a win.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:50
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ActusRhesus posted:Cop punished for breaking law. Sounds like a win. Is it a harsher, similar or lighter sentence then someone who did something similar (besides the lawful arrest part) would get? If it is similar or harsher (because of the abuse of authority part) then it's a big win.
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Jan 28, 2015 23:47
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http://krqe.com/2015/01/13/da-my-office-kicked-out-of-police-shooting-investigation/quote:ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) – A top prosecutor for District Attorney Kari Brandenburg’s office was shut out of a briefing after a fatal police shooting near San Mateo and Constitution NE on Tuesday evening, Brandenburg told KRQE News 13.
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Jan 28, 2015 23:54
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The police didn't block her from the meeting, the City's own attorney did. It even says it right in the article. This was hashed out earlier in the thread.
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Jan 29, 2015 00:06
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I don't recall saying the police did so, but apologies for a repost.
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Jan 29, 2015 00:10
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I don't recall saying the police did so, but apologies for a repost. Oh, your looking for the City Attorney reform thread then.
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Jan 29, 2015 00:15
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 Maybe I should be looking for the thin skinned babies thread. It's still related. Or did you chase everyone away last time you hashed it out here too? Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 00:17
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Intel&Sebastian posted:
No, you found it.
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Jan 29, 2015 00:20
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Intel&Sebastian posted:
Best edit ever. Post more about how you feel about this.
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Jan 29, 2015 00:36
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ratbert90 posted:No, you found it. yep
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Jan 29, 2015 00:50
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Intel&Sebastian posted:
D&D: mostly just assholes and depressives treating each other like poo poo
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Jan 29, 2015 02:08
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GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:D&D: mostly just assholes and depressives treating each other like poo poo Or sometimes straight text of news stories treating people like poo poo.
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Jan 29, 2015 02:26
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Or sometimes straight text of news stories treating people like poo poo. The news stories are basically just window dressing for the negative personal interactions y'all keep having. Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 02:37
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So, I've asked this before and people have given the always fantastic ultra-rightwing response of "Go back to France" but, I'll ask again. What purpose do cops serve? Why should I tolerate their existence? I get that, like the military, they benefit the rich and powerful, so I get why cops exist. Unlike the military, cops occupy the places I live. Why shouldn't they be treated like a hostile, occupying force?
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Jan 29, 2015 08:58
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Well the original purpose for them was to replace poo poo like local militia's that simply enforce the power of local elites over that of national elites and their interests, but as a side effect it also means that local victims of militia's generally have more of a balanced arena to get themselves not lynched. Of course you have the problem that, once established, the same local elites set themselves and their cronies up in a police force, but that is just one of many different problems with our present conception of policing. There is also the issue of providing training and skills to people in order to ensure that certain behaviors (arson, burglary etc) are more easily investigated and stopped and providing resources so that larger crimes (murder, rape etc) get investigated properly instead of being simply ignored or pined on some poor bastard who has no-one to vouch for them and/or little to no local pull. Of course these things are often not treated with due diligence, but that is the reason for a lot of police forces existence.
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Jan 29, 2015 09:18
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That's a lot of theory and not much practice. If a stranger is robbing or killing me, that stranger is more likely to have a badge than not. Hell, rape trauma centers train their workers to protect survivors from cops! So, even in situations where the cop is ostensibly innocent, they are still more likely a source of harm than help. I'm not asking why cops exist originally or in theory. I'm asking why I should tolerate cops. I'm asking what good they actually serve.
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Jan 29, 2015 09:45
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Oh, sorry I misunderstood your question! And I find it rather hard to answer your question, do you mean from a practical stand point? Because from a purely practical stand point it is the same reason one should tolerate an occupying force in warfare "Because they can/will do you harm if you harm them". From a seperate point of view I suppose the answer would be how many crimes they help to deter, cause and help people afterwards. If they are failing in any of those aspects there should be urgent and neccesary reforms. I am just finding it a bit tricky to answer your question, sorry!
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Jan 29, 2015 10:08
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Shbobdb posted:So, I've asked this before and people have given the always fantastic ultra-rightwing response of "Go back to France" but, I'll ask again. What purpose do cops serve? Why should I tolerate their existence? Constabulatory police were developed with the purpose of torturing prostitutes and other un-chaste women. This role has since been expanded to include everyone who wasn't born rich.
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Jan 29, 2015 11:00
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Shbobdb posted:That's a lot of theory and not much practice. Am I to understand that you believe over half of crimes committed to be by police?
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Jan 29, 2015 12:04
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Shbobdb posted:That's a lot of theory and not much practice. Rape trauma centers are concerned about protecting people from cop's insensitivity, not from rampaging rape gangs of policemen. edit: Pope Guilty posted:Am I to understand that you believe over half of crimes committed to be by police? But speeding tickets and taxes are theft! 
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Jan 29, 2015 13:15
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Shbobdb posted:So, I've asked this before and people have given the always fantastic ultra-rightwing response of "Go back to France" but, I'll ask again. What purpose do cops serve? Why should I tolerate their existence? Have you ever lived in a high crime area?
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Jan 29, 2015 13:18
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http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S-F-public-defender-detained-outside-court-6046088.phpquote:"A San Francisco deputy public defender was handcuffed and arrested at the Hall of Justice after she objected to city police officers questioning her client outside a courtroom, an incident that her office called outrageous and police officials defended as appropriate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qhzdxYnwhg
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Jan 29, 2015 13:44
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How the gently caress does one even respond to this? Like, the speechless look on her client's face (pretty sure that's the guy on the left, in the blue shirt) just encapsulates it perfectly. "There goes any faith I might have had in the system, being led away in handcuffs because she tried to stop the police from questioning me."
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Jan 29, 2015 14:37
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If nothing else they had to think "how is this going to loving look" and then decided "yeah, this'll look fine" Seriously, how do you spin that as anything other than being dickish?
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Jan 29, 2015 14:54
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 What the actual gently caress?"If you don't step aside, I'm going to arrest you for resisting arrest".
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Jan 29, 2015 15:16
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ActusRhesus posted:Have you ever lived in a high crime area? In other words: quote:Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a drat what you think you are entitled to. I think you have the wrong character from A Few Good Men in your avatar.
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Jan 29, 2015 15:24
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SedanChair posted:In other words: If you can't see the difference between taking a critical stance and evaluating abuse of power issues within the police force, and operating under the delusion that police aren't necessary at all, I don't know what to say. Other than please don't threaten to stalk me again. That was creepy.
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Jan 29, 2015 15:28
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e: Shouldn't have bothered.
woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 15:34
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SedanChair posted:I made a mildly inappropriate comment, took my knocks for it and it's over with. Please don't try to milk it, it was already sad when you did it the first time. Only when the "question" is something as absurd as "why should the police exist at all?" Also, your comment sounds a little like victim-blaming, creeper. "Sure, I was inappropriate...but you need to just shut up about it."
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Jan 29, 2015 15:38
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SedanChair posted:I made a mildly inappropriate comment, took my knocks for it and it's over with. Please don't try to milk it, it was already sad when you did it the first time. Please get banned, you're so creepy.
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Jan 29, 2015 15:40
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Lol is this about the time that SedanChair mocked ActusRhesus for saying "As a Lawyer, ______" for the thousand time and it actually wasn't really that big of a deal?
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Jan 29, 2015 15:42
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joeburz posted:Lol is this about the time that SedanChair mocked ActusRhesus for saying "As a Lawyer, ______" for the thousand time and it actually wasn't really that big of a deal? No, it's about the time when he told her he had enough information to identify who she was and where she worked because he was angry at her arguments.
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Jan 29, 2015 15:44
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GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:No, it's about the time when he told her he had enough information to identify who she was and where she worked because he was angry at her arguments. ^This.
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Jan 29, 2015 15:45
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GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:No, it's about the time when he told her he had enough information to identify who she was and where she worked because he was angry at her arguments. Yea, that was the same argument that really wasn't a big deal outside of two minutes because the point was ActusRhesus putting forth tons of information willingly at any moment as some sort of display of their infallible wisdom being a ~lawyer~.
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Jan 29, 2015 15:45
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ActusRhesus posted:Only when the "question" is something as absurd as "why should the police exist at all?" Well to be fair, the concept of "police" is a relatively new one. The idea of ill paid, ill mannered and "employed by the local gentry" thief-takers isn't but there were large spans of time with a lack of police. The idea is sound, but it ties into ideas of centralisation that means some police are unaccountable to the most vulnerable and other areas just do not see the police as anything other than a nuisance which they can quietly get on with ignoring.
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Jan 29, 2015 15:46
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