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Metroidvanias that advertise themselves as Metroidvanias tend to be terrible Metroidvanias. The term is extremely retarded and so are the indie games that keep trying to bank on the term to hide the fact that they're poo poo, though Metroid games and Castlevania games are mostly extremely good. Metroidvania is like if people still thought FPS games were Doom clones but then eventually got into the idea of calling them all Wolfendooms. Except that term at least sounds a little rad.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:37
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I think the main problem with indie MV's is that they also make them procedurally generated, which is the antithesis of a good game.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:41
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i wish people would let go of procedural generation, and people who make procedural generation that's just a very small set of levels should be shamed. there's like 3 variants of each map in risk of rain
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Jan 28, 2015 22:00
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I don't think being procedurally generated is necessary bad, but it's cancer for metroidvanias as they live and die on their level design.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:01
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Aston posted:I don't think being procedurally generated is necessary bad, but it's cancer for metroidvanias as they live and die on their level design. it's really hosed up are there even any actually-good metroidvanias that aren't metroid or castlevania
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Jan 28, 2015 22:32
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rediscover posted:it's really hosed up Cavestory 
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Jan 28, 2015 22:38
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Doctor Goat posted:i wish people would let go of procedural generation, and people who make procedural generation that's just a very small set of levels should be shamed. The maps in Risk of Rain were definitely designed, they all just have a few things that change each time.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:41
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Powercrazy posted:Cavestory i never finished cave story. i got like a couple hours in but thats it. maybei should beat it. i will
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Jan 28, 2015 22:42
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I'd probably go with Castlevania. But that's mostly because I've played 1, 3, Belmont's Revenge, 4 and Symphony of the Night whereas I've only played Metroid 2 and Super Metroid.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:48
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I don't think Cave Story is really a metroidvania, more like a shooter-platformer. It is pretty good though. Like I said I like Within a Deep Forest and Knytt Stories, although I haven't played them in ages. Both are pretty short, and I think Knytt comes with a bunch of different maps which all use the same power ups. They're free, too, at least last time I checked.
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Jan 28, 2015 23:01
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Aston posted:I don't think Cave Story is really a metroidvania, more like a shooter-platformer. It is pretty good though. i've played pretty much all of the nifflas games, all of which i had completely forgotten about until i read this post. just had flashbacks of trying to let's play within a deep forest when i was like 13
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Jan 28, 2015 23:10
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rediscover posted:it's really hosed up
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Jan 28, 2015 23:15
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rediscover posted:i've played pretty much all of the nifflas games, all of which i had completely forgotten about until i read this post. just had flashbacks of trying to let's play within a deep forest when i was like 13 I tried a couple of the newer ones, Knytt Underground and Saira, but they didn't really do it for me. La-Mulana is kind of good but I couldn't solve the puzzles without a guide and then I got stuck on a boss and gave up.
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Jan 28, 2015 23:18
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La-Mulana is extremely good and I beat both versions of it. Can't wait for part 2.
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Jan 28, 2015 23:19
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Aston posted:I don't think Cave Story is really a metroidvania, more like a shooter-platformer. It is pretty good though. Eh like this thread mentioned it's hard to define the genre "metroidvania" but basically a platformer with items that act as keys and also affect how you interact with the world as well as make you generally more powerful as the game progresses. So the multiple guns, missiles, and energy tanks makes it a 'metroidvania' to me, it's also a pretty good platformer too.
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Jan 28, 2015 23:56
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Crimson Harvest posted:I think the main problem with indie MV's is that they also make them procedurally generated, which is the antithesis of a good game. for this reason, and more, burn rogue legacy on a garbage fire
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Jan 29, 2015 00:08
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the difference between a game cave story and super metroid is that the connected world in cave story is more incidental that anything. yeah all the areas are connected but you're not really backtracking or getting new abilities all that often. the only really major upgrade is the booster. whereas in super metroid, your ability progression is intimately tied to your access of the world. you're constantly backtracking and going back to earlier areas to try and see where your new abilities can get you. so to me, a good metroidvania is about more than just having a huge interconnected map. how you're meant to access new areas is just as important as whether those areas are interconnected.
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Jan 29, 2015 01:18
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Powercrazy posted:Cavestory Not a Metroidvania.
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Jan 29, 2015 01:21
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exquisite tea posted:The original LoK: Soul Reaver was probably my favorite of the Metroidvanias.
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Jan 29, 2015 04:08
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Powercrazy posted:Eh like this thread mentioned it's hard to define the genre "metroidvania" but basically a platformer with items that act as keys and also affect how you interact with the world as well as make you generally more powerful as the game progresses. So the multiple guns, missiles, and energy tanks makes it a 'metroidvania' to me, it's also a pretty good platformer too. "Items that act as keys" is a terrible definition for metroidvanias because all the indie devs then shorten that to just "keys". Our game is like Doom, but a 2D platformer! How metroidvania! What a bunch of loving assholes. Guacamelee is the only modern metroidvania because when you unlock the "green punch" ability you use it during platforming and combat instead of just whenever you see a green door.
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Jan 29, 2015 09:31
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yes gating progression through literal keys is the most boring and uninspired way of designing a metroidvania ever.
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Jan 29, 2015 09:42
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is vgpw a wrestlevania?
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Jan 29, 2015 09:50
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Phantasium posted:Wolfendooms. Someone has to name a metal band Wolfendoom
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Jan 29, 2015 10:00
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Mach2 posted:Someone has to name a metal band Wolfendoom On my friend's iPod, the song "Magic Carpet Ride" and "Born To Be Wild" were both labeled as being by Stepping Wolf.
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Jan 29, 2015 10:19
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Mach2 posted:Someone has to name a metal band Wolfendoom
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Jan 29, 2015 13:44
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largely unrelated, but the machine gun is Cave Story is probably my fave weapon in any 2D platformer or similar ilk. the risk/reward of getting it to max level and then hovering around through levels, trying not to get hit. Extremely good weapon design, love that game
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Jan 29, 2015 14:53
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Jackard posted:Did you activate the cathedral to kill off all the vampires? I don't remember that part of the game very well, the only thing I recall about a cathedral is getting stuck for a couple hours on the puzzle with all the organ pipes.
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Jan 29, 2015 16:28
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Aston posted:I don't think being procedurally generated is necessary bad, but it's cancer for metroidvanias as they live and die on their level design. yeah
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Jan 29, 2015 16:37
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Wormskull posted:On my friend's iPod, the song "Magic Carpet Ride" and "Born To Be Wild" were both labeled as being by Stepping Wolf. this makes me incredibly angry
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Jan 29, 2015 16:51
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AHungryRobot posted:yes gating progression through literal keys is the most boring and uninspired way of designing a metroidvania ever. Agree. But items that act like keys, for example the space Jump in Metroid, owns and is great design. I guess come to think of it, Cave Story really didn't have that many. It was still well designed though.
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Jan 29, 2015 18:37
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exquisite tea posted:I don't remember that part of the game very well, the only thing I recall about a cathedral is getting stuck for a couple hours on the puzzle with all the organ pipes.
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Jan 29, 2015 18:41
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rediscover posted:it's really hosed up Monster Tale
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Jan 29, 2015 20:35
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experienceBeej posted:Monster Tale That's game is more good despite the Metroidvania elements than because of them. All the progression upgrade areas are like on the opposite ends of the map and it didn't really look like you could sequence break anything but I could be wrong. Having a little monster buddy was neat though.
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Jan 29, 2015 20:48
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metroidvanias should be judged less on how much you can sequence break them and more on how fun they are
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Jan 29, 2015 21:14
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rediscover posted:it's really hosed up valdis story is pretty fun, and goes for very cheap on steam sales
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Jan 29, 2015 21:29
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Bobnumerotres posted:metroidvanias should be judged less on how much you can sequence break them and more on how fun they are I didn't mean so much that just that that game is really linear because of the way the map is arranged, the Metroidvania part just makes it so you have to backtrack through the map for every area. Barely anything was interconnected and there wasn't much to just discover.
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Jan 29, 2015 21:33
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Bobnumerotres posted:metroidvanias should be judged less on how much you can sequence break them and more on how fun they are No one can judge it then.
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Jan 30, 2015 07:30
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Jackard posted:Bad joke, they cut like half the game and that was the original ending http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=488564 Yeah I do remember reading a lot about how much of the game was cut and shuffled off into the sequels. The enormity of what was dropped is pretty impressive because I thought Soul Reaver was a pretty big game already. The sequels I didn't end up liking as much because they took out impaling vampires with large pikes and throwing them into water to sadistically incinerate them.
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Jan 30, 2015 13:18
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True but I preferred the sequels telling the Elder God to gently caress off
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Jan 30, 2015 13:26
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Crimson Harvest posted:Valdis Story Abyssal City fits in this category but I find it difficult to actually play, something about the controls feels kind of stiff. Yo OP stick with it, the combat in that game is slick as hell once it all clicks. It's just really really hard so expect to get killed a whole lot before you turn into a badass. not Dark Souls hard, more like Devil May Cry hard if that makes sense.
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Jan 30, 2015 14:26
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