PC Building/Upgrading/Parts-picking Megathread

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Nuja: Jan 29, 2006

Factory Factory posted:

The only thing I agree with is that the single-input Koreans are the only ones that overclock.

Care to elaborate more? I'm second guessing myself a bit now. Should I go for ATX instead of mATX since I'm planning on going for a decent overclock on the CPU and GPU? Is the GTX 970 going to be enough to power 1440p AAA gaming? Was I incorrect believing that the Phanteks PH-TC12DX offered better performance than a Noctua NH-U12S?

Nuja fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Feb 1, 2015

# ? Feb 1, 2015 00:40

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 18:14

Factory Factory: Mar 19, 2010; This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.

Nuja posted:

Care to elaborate more?

He swapped the motherboard for a Gigabyte motherboard with Killer ethernet - two strikes against it. For the extra $20 you do get SLI support, but I don't think that's a fair trade-off. For someone informed about Gigabyte's VRM shenanigans and the BSOD issues with the Killer ethernet drivers, I have no problem if they take on those risks, but as a matter of recommendation to somebody seeking advice, that board is right out.

2133 CL11 vs. 1600 CL9 favors the 2133 kit. Though the CAS latency in cycles is faster, the CAS in nanoseconds is shorter on the 2133 kit. So the 2133 kit is both faster in bandwidth and faster in latency. Here are some real-world benchmarks to bear that out. There is a cost/benefit issue when you consider the relatively small impact of RAM speed on performance, but his replacement kit saves a whole $1, not the $15+ that we'd consider worthwhile for a RAM speed downgrade.

He replaced your excellent-quality 80+ Gold, low-ripple SeaSonic power supply with an older model that's less efficient and has worse ripple regulation (which makes it worse for overclocking). You save $25 making that switch, but he didn't sell it as being about saving $25. He sold it as being good for overclocking. It is worse for overclocking.

And the big one, "970 bad, get a 290 instead." Here's real-world on stock 970 vs. stock 290: http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1068?vs=1355. They trade blows. Those benchmarks include the 3.5 GB partition issue. Any review and benchmarks you look at will include the memory partition, because the memory partition is not new. It's just new to us. The chip has always been that way.

When you take overclocking into account, the performance crown solidly falls into the 970's lap. Let's use [H]ardOCP's 970 and 290 results as reference. Without going nuts on the numbers, they both overclock similar amounts percentage-wise, but here's where we start talking about heat and noise. The overclocked R9-290 drew 80W more than the overclocked 970. The 970 also stayed quiet during overclocking, whereas the R9-290, even with a beefy DirectCU II cooler on it, was loud enough to be annoying during gaming.

Considering a 290 over a 970 is a valid exercise and cost-benefit question. But skipping the 970 of the 3.5 GB RAM partition completely ignores that scads of benchmarks show the 970 being a loving great card at 2560x1440.

Now, combine the motherboard change, the power supply change, and the R9-290 change all at once - he gave you an SLI/CFX board with a power supply that has no hope of actually running an SLI/CFX config. So, good job on that. Arbitrary changes, changes for the wrong reason, and he ends up suggesting you a lower-quality build that will be noisier, more power-hungry, subject to more wear and tear during overclocking, and slower. And that if you avoid BSODs from the ethernet controller by force-installing generic drivers or not using the NIC at all.

And MicroATX, ITX, tower, full tower, "Gotta go big to OC!"... They can suck my Prodigy's dick. Sufficient cooling for overclocking is easier to get in a large case, that's absolutely true. But treating the Enthoo Evolv like some kind of granny case that can't handle a hot clock is stupid. Your Noctua NH-U12S or Phanteks TC12DX will make for your heat limit or your chip will hit its wall before changing the case does jack poo poo in your system as configured.

Oh, and on Phanteks vs. Noctua: Phanteks is marginally cooler, Noctua is marginally quieter, but generally their apples-to-apples heatsinks are near-identical. E.g. E: That same review was linked by a later response in your thread, comparing the TC12DX with its two stock fans to an NH-U12S with a second $20 fan added.

Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Feb 1, 2015

# ? Feb 1, 2015 01:45

Pews: Mar 7, 2006; one thousand years of anime; Grimey Drawer

teknologik posted:

And I canceled it. I'm preparing for Occulus Rift stuff as well in the future and the 3.5 ram controversy thing sounds like it would really hose me. Maybe I'll just wait.

I think the current rumors have the 380x coming out Feb/March. I'm in a similar situation and I'm going to wait at least till that's announced. (gotta wait for tax rebate monies anyways)

# ? Feb 1, 2015 01:59

Nuja: Jan 29, 2006

Factory Factory posted:

He swapped the motherboard for a Gigabyte motherboard with Killer ethernet - two strikes against it. For the extra $20 you do get SLI support, but I don't think that's a fair trade-off. For someone informed about Gigabyte's VRM shenanigans and the BSOD issues with the Killer ethernet drivers, I have no problem if they take on those risks, but as a matter of recommendation to somebody seeking advice, that board is right out.

2133 CL11 vs. 1600 CL9 favors the 2133 kit. Though the CAS latency in cycles is faster, the CAS in nanoseconds is shorter on the 2133 kit. So the 2133 kit is both faster in bandwidth and faster in latency. Here are some real-world benchmarks to bear that out. There is a cost/benefit issue when you consider the relatively small impact of RAM speed on performance, but his replacement kit saves a whole $1, not the $15+ that we'd consider worthwhile for a RAM speed downgrade.

He replaced your excellent-quality 80+ Gold, low-ripple SeaSonic power supply with an older model that's less efficient and has worse ripple regulation (which makes it worse for overclocking). You save $25 making that switch, but he didn't sell it as being about saving $25. He sold it as being good for overclocking. It is worse for overclocking.

And the big one, "970 bad, get a 290 instead." Here's real-world on stock 970 vs. stock 290: http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1068?vs=1355. They trade blows. Those benchmarks include the 3.5 GB partition issue. Any review and benchmarks you look at will include the memory partition, because the memory partition is not new. It's just new to us. The chip has always been that way.

When you take overclocking into account, the performance crown solidly falls into the 970's lap. Let's use [H]ardOCP's 970 and 290 results as reference. Without going nuts on the numbers, they both overclock similar amounts percentage-wise, but here's where we start talking about heat and noise. The overclocked R9-290 drew 80W more than the overclocked 970. The 970 also stayed quiet during overclocking, whereas the R9-290, even with a beefy DirectCU II cooler on it, was loud enough to be annoying during gaming.

Considering a 290 over a 970 is a valid exercise and cost-benefit question. But skipping the 970 of the 3.5 GB RAM partition completely ignores that scads of benchmarks show the 970 being a loving great card at 2560x1440.

Now, combine the motherboard change, the power supply change, and the R9-290 change all at once - he gave you an SLI/CFX board with a power supply that has no hope of actually running an SLI/CFX config. So, good job on that. Arbitrary changes, changes for the wrong reason, and he ends up suggesting you a lower-quality build that will be noisier, more power-hungry, subject to more wear and tear during overclocking, and slower. And that if you avoid BSODs from the ethernet controller by force-installing generic drivers or not using the NIC at all.

And MicroATX, ITX, tower, full tower, "Gotta go big to OC!"... They can suck my Prodigy's dick. Sufficient cooling for overclocking is easier to get in a large case, that's absolutely true. But treating the Enthoo Evolv like some kind of granny case that can't handle a hot clock is stupid. Your Noctua NH-U12S or Phanteks TC12DX will make for your heat limit or your chip will hit its wall before changing the case does jack poo poo in your system as configured.

Oh, and on Phanteks vs. Noctua: Phanteks is marginally cooler, Noctua is marginally quieter, but generally their apples-to-apples heatsinks are near-identical. E.g. E: That same review was linked by a later response in your thread, comparing the TC12DX with its two stock fans to an NH-U12S with a second $20 fan added.

You are amazing. Answered every question I had and confirmed all of my suspicions. I will be pulling the trigger on this build now that I feel comfortable with my choices.

I may still look for an alternative pair of RAM to ditch the gaudy heatsink, but other than that I believe it's about time to do this.

One last time, in the event that someone else has any input(OCing rig for 1440p gaming at a $1500-1700 budget including a 1440p IPS panel).

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (Purchased For $229.99)
CPU Cooler: Phanteks PH-TC12DX_BK 68.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock Z97M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($97.95 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($65.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($52.24 @ Directron)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($359.10 @ Directron)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo EVOLV MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($119.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($87.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) (Purchased For $40.00)
Total: $1237.22
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-31 20:02 EST-0500

You guys are an amazing resource. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to assist us.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 02:03

teknologik: Jul 24, 2006; Write it, cut it,
paste it, save it

Pews posted:

I think the current rumors have the 380x coming out Feb/March. I'm in a similar situation and I'm going to wait at least till that's announced. (gotta wait for tax rebate monies anyways)

I haven't had a Radeon in quite a while and I've heard mixed things about their drivers which concerns me a bit too. I could possibly get a 980 but the price point its at now is a bit harsh. Hmm..

# ? Feb 1, 2015 03:05

Beachcomber: May 21, 2007; Another day in paradise.; Slippery Tilde

Hi!

I have no experience in putting together a computer except watching my dad break ours multiple times as a kid. As a result I've always been against the idea of trying to put one together until my fiancee convinced me otherwise. Apparently, she's always wanted to.

I have read the primer at the beginning of the thread and feel like I mostly understand things, but I thought I'd post my build and solicit opinions. Please let me know if I'm doing anything stupid/wrong/insane/expensive for no reason. :downs:

Thanks!

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($186.88 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($28.75 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($79.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($82.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($219.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB TWIN FROZR Video Card ($289.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($78.98 @ OutletPC)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.75 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.75 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Asus VG248QE 144Hz 24.0" Monitor ($264.99 @ Amazon)
Wireless Network Adapter: Intel 7260HMWDTX1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1430.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-31 20:52 EST-0500

What country are you in? USA

What are you using the system for? Gaming and general internet browsing with 30 open tabs. I'm not a super gamer, but I've never had a PC with good performance and I kind of want one. Stability is also one of my goals. I want to be able to play all the games for at least the next few years, and high resolution would be something of a novelty.

What's your budget? I hadn't really decided on a budget before putting the system together, but $1500 for a nice computer and reasonably large monitor doesn't seem that bad. I don't want to throw away money for no gain, of course. :downs:

If you�re doing professional work, what software do you need to use? What�s your typical project size and complexity? If you use multiple pieces of software, what�s your workflow? N/A

If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution? How fancy do you want your graphics, from �it runs� to �Ultra preset as fast as possible�? Like I said earlier, I've never had top performance so I think if I'm spending money anyway, that I'd like to have the best currently available, within reason. On the other hand, I've been using a netbook for the last 4 years so I obviously have low standards.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 03:08

wuat: Jul 12, 2009

I'm buying 3 ROG Swifts, I already have 1 gtx 970 and plan on getting 2 more, how terrible is this going to run on any game with decent settings. i have a 3930k, which i think is good enough for 3x sli??

# ? Feb 1, 2015 03:15

teknologik: Jul 24, 2006; Write it, cut it,
paste it, save it

Is all this drama over the 970 not stopping you guys from picking it up? I'm just worried about its longevity.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 03:38

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

teknologik posted:

Is all this drama over the 970 not stopping you guys from picking it up? I'm just worried about its longevity.

From what I've gathered, it's only going to be a big problem if you're gaming on multiple monitors or at 1440p/4k. I'm on one monitor at 1920x1200 and I picked up the 970 (MSI Golden Edition) before the controversy started. Haven't really tested it with any game except Far Cry 4 so far, though. But I doubt it's going to give me as many headaches as other 970 owners who try to push theirs too hard. If it does, I'll just sell it and get a different card to replace it, I guess. Which one? I have no idea. But I'll cross that bridge if I come to it.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 04:01

Factory Factory: Mar 19, 2010; This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.

wuat posted:

I'm buying 3 ROG Swifts, I already have 1 gtx 970 and plan on getting 2 more, how terrible is this going to run on any game with decent settings. i have a 3930k, which i think is good enough for 3x sli??

Three ROG Swifts. 3x2560x1440. Basically, it's one-and-a-half 4K screens... and then you want to run them at 144 Hz.

There is no video card on this planet that'll run AAAs across all of those anywhere near that top frame rate. Thank goodness for G-Sync, I guess. But yeah... 2xSLI is probably going to be pretty high on your list of desirable upgrades.

3xSLI... 3x and 4x SLI are tough. They do not function as often as 2xSLI, and when they do, they often don't scale as far for the third card as adding the second did. Guru3D did a breakdown of 980 SLI vs. 980 Tri-SLI, with 970 SLI results in the mix, as well.

The better part of valor, here, is actually probably going to be returning the 970 and getting a pair of 980s, rather than getting 970 Tri-SLI. You're very much a candidate for tri-SLI performance benefits, but before that you're also a candidate for the 980's increased pixel-pushing throughput. Two 980s would perform similarly or better in most titles compared to three 970s when SLI scaling was limited above two cards, and fairly close in titles that did Tri-SLI scaling well because of the 980's superior ultra-high-res performance.

CS:GO will play great, though! :v:

Beachcomber posted:

Hi!

I have no experience in putting together a computer except watching my dad break ours multiple times as a kid. As a result I've always been against the idea of trying to put one together until my fiancee convinced me otherwise. Apparently, she's always wanted to.

I have read the primer at the beginning of the thread and feel like I mostly understand things, but I thought I'd post my build and solicit opinions. Please let me know if I'm doing anything stupid/wrong/insane/expensive for no reason.

Thanks!

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($186.88 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($28.75 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($79.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($82.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($219.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB TWIN FROZR Video Card ($289.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($78.98 @ OutletPC)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.75 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.75 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Asus VG248QE 144Hz 24.0" Monitor ($264.99 @ Amazon)
Wireless Network Adapter: Intel 7260HMWDTX1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1430.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-31 20:52 EST-0500

What country are you in? USA

What are you using the system for? Gaming and general internet browsing with 30 open tabs. I'm not a super gamer, but I've never had a PC with good performance and I kind of want one. Stability is also one of my goals. I want to be able to play all the games for at least the next few years, and high resolution would be something of a novelty.

What's your budget? I hadn't really decided on a budget before putting the system together, but $1500 for a nice computer and reasonably large monitor doesn't seem that bad. I don't want to throw away money for no gain, of course.

If you’re doing professional work, what software do you need to use? What’s your typical project size and complexity? If you use multiple pieces of software, what’s your workflow? N/A

If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution? How fancy do you want your graphics, from “it runs” to “Ultra preset as fast as possible”? Like I said earlier, I've never had top performance so I think if I'm spending money anyway, that I'd like to have the best currently available, within reason. On the other hand, I've been using a netbook for the last 4 years so I obviously have low standards.

It's a pretty good build. A few general suggestions:

1) Swap the Hyper 212 EVO for a Cryorig H7. My bad, that's on the OP to-do list that I haven't done yet because :effort:

2) $80 for an older-model power supply doesn't make sense to me when newer, better units are about the same cost. Check the models in the OP again, especially the Rosewill Capstone.

3) The RAM is a bit overpriced and has Big Dumb Heatsinks. Identically-spec'd RAM with sane heatsinks costs about $65 right now.

4) The GeForce 770 isn't a great buy right now. Combined with your 144 Hz monitor choice, I'd definitely step up to a GeForce 970 for about $350. The MSI Gaming 4G and Asus Strix models are the best overall.

I'm going to assume you know what you're doing getting a TN-panel, 144 Hz panel over an IPS panel display with a lower framerate. For a gaming-and-nothing-else system, that's as good a time as any to get such a screen. But FYI, if you were getting that monitor for G-Sync, the screen is only G-Sync upgradeable, and the upgrade costs another $200-$300.

5) Even a 500 GB SSD is a bit small if it's going to be the only storage. Games these days take 40+ GB each. I highly suggest at least getting a 1 TB hard drive as well.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 04:02

Zero VGS: Aug 16, 2002; ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE; Lipstick Apathy

Beachcomber posted:

Hi!

I have no experience in putting together a computer except watching my dad break ours multiple times as a kid. As a result I've always been against the idea of trying to put one together until my fiancee convinced me otherwise. Apparently, she's always wanted to.

I have read the primer at the beginning of the thread and feel like I mostly understand things, but I thought I'd post my build and solicit opinions. Please let me know if I'm doing anything stupid/wrong/insane/expensive for no reason.

Thanks!

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($186.88 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($28.75 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($79.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($82.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($219.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB TWIN FROZR Video Card ($289.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($78.98 @ OutletPC)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.75 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.75 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Asus VG248QE 144Hz 24.0" Monitor ($264.99 @ Amazon)
Wireless Network Adapter: Intel 7260HMWDTX1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1430.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-31 20:52 EST-0500

What country are you in? USA

What are you using the system for? Gaming and general internet browsing with 30 open tabs. I'm not a super gamer, but I've never had a PC with good performance and I kind of want one. Stability is also one of my goals. I want to be able to play all the games for at least the next few years, and high resolution would be something of a novelty.

What's your budget? I hadn't really decided on a budget before putting the system together, but $1500 for a nice computer and reasonably large monitor doesn't seem that bad. I don't want to throw away money for no gain, of course.

If you�re doing professional work, what software do you need to use? What�s your typical project size and complexity? If you use multiple pieces of software, what�s your workflow? N/A

If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution? How fancy do you want your graphics, from �it runs� to �Ultra preset as fast as possible�? Like I said earlier, I've never had top performance so I think if I'm spending money anyway, that I'd like to have the best currently available, within reason. On the other hand, I've been using a netbook for the last 4 years so I obviously have low standards.

- You're getting a non-overclocking CPU so you don't really need the 212 Evo unless you're trying to get the PC as quiet as possible under gaming load, but under gaming load the GPU will be louder than the stock intel cooler included with the CPU anyway so not a great use of $30

- 8gb should be fine for 30 chrome tabs, look into the free Chrome extension "The Great Suspender" which will automatically park tabs you've left idle for X minutes, that'll keep your ram freed up for sure.

- Contrary to Factory's advice, I'd say 500gb is OK, and if you have great internet for re-downloading steam games you could probably survive with half that if you were trying to save some bucks.

- What the hell is with that GTX 770? Get a 970 and it'll be strictly better.

- Instead of Windows 8 for $90, I'd just get the free preview of Windows 10. It is free for now, and later you can either pay to convert it to a full retail version without needing a reinstall, or use an old Windows 7 serial number to convert it for free.

- I've owned that monitor, sure it does 144hz but it is a washed out mess. Get one of these for $160 less instead, a superior monitor: http://www.amazon.com/Dell-CFGKT-IPS-LED-21-5-Inch-LED-lit-Monitor/dp/B009H0XQPU

- Every time someone tried to get a Micro ATX case and motherboard, and then tries to spend an extra $50 for a wireless card, I remind them that you can get this:

$50 ITX case: http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Core-Computer-Chassis-CA-1B8-00S1WN-00/dp/B00M2UKGSM
$80 ITX motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157526

The ITX motherboard includes Wifi and Bluetooth, so it is less than your mATX case/mobo/wifi combo and much smaller of a PC as well.

teknologik posted:

Is all this drama over the 970 not stopping you guys from picking it up? I'm just worried about its longevity.

That poo poo is dumb, it is still far and away the best value in GPUs right now.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 04:10

StupidSexyMothman: Aug 9, 2010

Don't get thermal compound in your sockets, goons :sigh:

Though to be fair it ran fine for a month, which is about a month longer than I expected it to.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 04:14

teknologik: Jul 24, 2006; Write it, cut it,
paste it, save it

Zero VGS posted:

That poo poo is dumb, it is still far and away the best value in GPUs right now.

People are saying in games like Dying Light etc they are getting stuttering because it's trying to access over 3.5 gigs. Also if people are saying it's having problems using 2 monitor gaming I wonder if it'll basically have the same issue with occulus.

If it were just 3.5 gigs in reality without the stuttering etc I wouldn't even care.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 04:14

wuat: Jul 12, 2009

Factory Factory posted:

Three ROG Swifts. 3x2560x1440. Basically, it's one-and-a-half 4K screens... and then you want to run them at 144 Hz.

There is no video card on this planet that'll run AAAs across all of those anywhere near that top frame rate. Thank goodness for G-Sync, I guess. But yeah... 2xSLI is probably going to be pretty high on your list of desirable upgrades.

3xSLI... 3x and 4x SLI are tough. They do not function as often as 2xSLI, and when they do, they often don't scale as far for the third card as adding the second did. Guru3D did a breakdown of 980 SLI vs. 980 Tri-SLI, with 970 SLI results in the mix, as well.

The better part of valor, here, is actually probably going to be returning the 970 and getting a pair of 980s, rather than getting 970 Tri-SLI. You're very much a candidate for tri-SLI performance benefits, but before that you're also a candidate for the 980's increased pixel-pushing throughput. Two 980s would perform similarly or better in most titles compared to three 970s when SLI scaling was limited above two cards, and fairly close in titles that did Tri-SLI scaling well because of the 980's superior ultra-high-res performance.

CS:GO will play great, though!

I figured I wouldn't be able to run very well on anything currently, maybe in a gen or two.

I don't think I'd be able to return my current 970, but my roommate might want to buy it so I'll probably just splurge and get two 980s also. I guess i could use the 970 as a physx card if I can't offload it?

Thanks for the input

# ? Feb 1, 2015 04:21

Factory Factory: Mar 19, 2010; This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.

People are getting stuttering in Dying Light because it's a hog's rear end and everything is having trouble with it. Try cutting the draw distance to 50%.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 04:26

Factory Factory: Mar 19, 2010; This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.

wuat posted:

I figured I wouldn't be able to run very well on anything currently, maybe in a gen or two.

I don't think I'd be able to return my current 970, but my roommate might want to buy it so I'll probably just splurge and get two 980s also. I guess i could use the 970 as a physx card if I can't offload it?

Thanks for the input

A 970 for PhysX is so outrageously overkill it's silly. It'd set a new record for "outrageous uses of a GPU for PhysX," beating out the brief time Agreed used his 680 for PhysX after getting a 780.

You shouldn't have a problem unloading it. Even if your roommate doesn't bite, eBay is seeing used 970s go for practically-new prices. And there's always SA Mart and cutting someone from this thread a sweetheart deal.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 04:28

BurritoJustice: Oct 9, 2012

wuat posted:

I'm buying 3 ROG Swifts, I already have 1 gtx 970 and plan on getting 2 more, how terrible is this going to run on any game with decent settings. i have a 3930k, which i think is good enough for 3x sli??

The Swift is already large enough at 27" for the TN screen to cause colour shift at the edges of the panel. Three of them at wide angles from your vision is a really bad idea. I think buying a swift right now is a bad idea in general, as soon there will be an IPS equivalent from Acer that fixes the main issue with the Swift (TN), and also Swift equivalents from other companies now that Asus' exclusivity on the panel has ended, which will push down prices for the TN versions.

Also follow FF's advice on 980s, your resolution is going to be a chunk more than 4K, where the 980 is king.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 04:56

Papercut: Aug 24, 2005

So if my PC just lost power (no BSOD, just poof gone and nothing happens when I hit power button), is there a quick way to tell whether it's mobo or it's PSU?

I don't have a multimeter handy but I figure I'll get one tomorrow.

I looked at Corsair's paper clip instructions, but they seem outdated. I don't have a 4-pin connector on my PSU (RM550), I have the 24 pin and an 8 pin. And I don't see any way to connect my case fan to the 8-pin anyway. I tried shorting the pins on the 24-pin anyway but nothing happened.

Yes I have tried changing power cables, changing outlets, flipping the PSU on/off, etc.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 06:35

Rexxed: May 1, 2010; Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!

Papercut posted:

So if my PC just lost power (no BSOD, just poof gone and nothing happens when I hit power button), is there a quick way to tell whether it's mobo or it's PSU?

I don't have a multimeter handy but I figure I'll get one tomorrow.

I looked at Corsair's paper clip instructions, but they seem outdated. I don't have a 4-pin connector on my PSU (RM550), I have the 24 pin and an 8 pin. And I don't see any way to connect my case fan to the 8-pin anyway. I tried shorting the pins on the 24-pin anyway but nothing happened.

Yes I have tried changing power cables, changing outlets, flipping the PSU on/off, etc.

If shorting the green wire on the 24 pin to any black wire doesn't fire up the PSU then the PSU is dead.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 06:37

Papercut: Aug 24, 2005

Rexxed posted:

If shorting the green wire on the 24 pin to any black wire doesn't fire up the PSU then the PSU is dead.

Hmm the Corsair site said that some PSU fans only fire up when under load. Is that not the case?

E:

Oh duh good point. Yeah it's fried. Lasted two months total of its 5 year warranty. :mad:

Papercut fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Feb 1, 2015

# ? Feb 1, 2015 06:39

Rexxed: May 1, 2010; Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!

Papercut posted:

Hmm the Corsair site said that some PSU fans only fire up when under load. Is that not the case?

Sure but you can leave something connected to the PSU and see if it gets power like a disk drive or fan.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 06:43

The Lord Bude: May 23, 2007; ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

HERAK posted:

After taking the advice from the replies to my last post I'm pretty much set on ordering this:

I'm intending on overclocking and will be mostly using it for gaming, some office work and web browsing.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (�173.94 @ Aria PC)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Kotetsu 79.0 CFM CPU Cooler (�29.65 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Asus MAXIMUS VII GENE Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (�142.98 @ Aria PC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (�67.67 @ CCL Computers)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (�188.37 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card (�280.00 @ Aria PC)
Case: Silverstone FT05B ATX Mid Tower Case (�129.96 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: Super Flower Leadex Gold 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (�90.01 @ Amazon UK)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WDN4800 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter (�25.74 @ Scan.co.uk)
Other: Windows 8.1 (student discount) (�49.99)
Total: �1178.31
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-31 14:29 GMT+0000

The only thing i'm not sure about is if i would be better off with the Asus Z97-PRO(Wi-Fi ac) with no pcie wifi card rather than the Asus MAXIMUS VII GENE Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard and using the pcie wifi.

The wifi built into the z97-pro will be much better than the lovely TP-link adapter you've listed here; but not quite as good as buying a separate intel wifi adapter (which is the only brand you should be purchasing if you're buying a wifi adapter)

# ? Feb 1, 2015 08:43

The Lord Bude: May 23, 2007; ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

Factory Factory posted:

Got a whole bunch listed in the OP's quick picks list.

When I was at Micro Center yesterday I was pretty impressed with the Corsair Obsidian 450D (which is on the OP list) and the Graphite 760T. The 760T is a big, big case, but I thought it looked pretty nice.

I'm also a bit shocked that my "small" Bitfenix Prodigy is actually significantly chunkier than most of the tower cases. It's shorter by far, but much wider. Coming from a Graphite 600T, which was just as wide, this wasn't as clear to me at first.

The 760T is pretty swanky looking but the stock cooling performance was pretty lackluster in the reviews I read when it first came out - I'm not sure why, given it comes with a pretty standard 2x140mm front and 1x140mm rear configuration - I'm guessing it can be chalked up to 'Corsair puts lovely fans in its cases'.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 08:45

The Lord Bude: May 23, 2007; ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

Factory Factory posted:

And MicroATX, ITX, tower, full tower, "Gotta go big to OC!"... They can suck my Prodigy's dick. Sufficient cooling for overclocking is easier to get in a large case, that's absolutely true. But treating the Enthoo Evolv like some kind of granny case that can't handle a hot clock is stupid. Your Noctua NH-U12S or Phanteks TC12DX will make for your heat limit or your chip will hit its wall before changing the case does jack poo poo in your system as configured.

My prodigy wants a turn too. Ok with you if we each take one end?

# ? Feb 1, 2015 08:48

The Lord Bude: May 23, 2007; ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

Nuja posted:

You are amazing. Answered every question I had and confirmed all of my suspicions. I will be pulling the trigger on this build now that I feel comfortable with my choices.

I may still look for an alternative pair of RAM to ditch the gaudy heatsink, but other than that I believe it's about time to do this.

One last time, in the event that someone else has any input(OCing rig for 1440p gaming at a $1500-1700 budget including a 1440p IPS panel).

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (Purchased For $229.99)
CPU Cooler: Phanteks PH-TC12DX_BK 68.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock Z97M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($97.95 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($65.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($52.24 @ Directron)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($359.10 @ Directron)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo EVOLV MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($119.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($87.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) (Purchased For $40.00)
Total: $1237.22
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-31 20:02 EST-0500

You guys are an amazing resource. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to assist us.

The MSI 970 is better than the Gigabyte one. You also really don't need a 650w PSU - 450w or maybe 550w would be fine.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 08:50

The Lord Bude: May 23, 2007; ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

Beachcomber posted:

Hi!

I have no experience in putting together a computer except watching my dad break ours multiple times as a kid. As a result I've always been against the idea of trying to put one together until my fiancee convinced me otherwise. Apparently, she's always wanted to.

I have read the primer at the beginning of the thread and feel like I mostly understand things, but I thought I'd post my build and solicit opinions. Please let me know if I'm doing anything stupid/wrong/insane/expensive for no reason.

Thanks!

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($186.88 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($28.75 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($79.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($82.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($219.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB TWIN FROZR Video Card ($289.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($78.98 @ OutletPC)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.75 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.75 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Asus VG248QE 144Hz 24.0" Monitor ($264.99 @ Amazon)
Wireless Network Adapter: Intel 7260HMWDTX1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1430.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-31 20:52 EST-0500

What country are you in? USA

What are you using the system for? Gaming and general internet browsing with 30 open tabs. I'm not a super gamer, but I've never had a PC with good performance and I kind of want one. Stability is also one of my goals. I want to be able to play all the games for at least the next few years, and high resolution would be something of a novelty.

What's your budget? I hadn't really decided on a budget before putting the system together, but $1500 for a nice computer and reasonably large monitor doesn't seem that bad. I don't want to throw away money for no gain, of course.

If you�re doing professional work, what software do you need to use? What�s your typical project size and complexity? If you use multiple pieces of software, what�s your workflow? N/A

If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution? How fancy do you want your graphics, from �it runs� to �Ultra preset as fast as possible�? Like I said earlier, I've never had top performance so I think if I'm spending money anyway, that I'd like to have the best currently available, within reason. On the other hand, I've been using a netbook for the last 4 years so I obviously have low standards.

Cryorig H7 is out now, though it may not be listed on PCPartpicker yet - it's quieter, cooler, much easier to install and about the same price as a coolermaster Hyper212 evo.

You're paying way to much for RAM - brand is irrelevant, you can get DDR3-1600 for $20 less quite easily

There's absolutely no reason to be buying a gtx770 now that it's well and truly out of date. The gtx970 is a huge upgrade.

Your power supply is a higher wattage than it needs to be, and I really disagree with buying bronze rated units in this day and age, when you can get top notch gold rated units for much the same price - A 450w rosewill capstone-m is what you need.

That's a fine budget case, but you could always get something a little more premium, like a nice quiet Nanoxia DS4, a corsair Obsidian 450D, or a phanteks Enthoo Evolv. The Thermaltake Core V21 (supply your own 140mm fan for the rear) is also an excellent, compact choice.

Please don't buy that Monitor 144hz is not worth giving up the vastly improved image quality of an IPS screen.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 08:56

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

I'm looking for a GPU to replace my dieing GTX560. I'm not looking to spend more than about 250 bucks though. The GTX960 runs around that much, would that be a sensible buy? Thanks!

# ? Feb 1, 2015 13:51

HalloKitty: Sep 30, 2005; Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast

botany posted:

I'm looking for a GPU to replace my dieing GTX560. I'm not looking to spend more than about 250 bucks though. The GTX960 runs around that much, would that be a sensible buy? Thanks!

If you have up to $250 to spend, Radeon 280X is the best performance/dollar. The 960 is fine at $200, but it's arguable that it's competing with the 280, which does have 50% more VRAM. The Radeons are going to use a bit more power than the 960, though, so if that's a concern, there's your answer.

Basically, the middle ground is still an awkward place to buy a card, the 960 ideally should have been a 192-bit 3GiB card, and the Radeons are getting a bit long in the tooth. There's the 285, but it has only 2GiB, so, I don't find it that useful.

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Feb 1, 2015

# ? Feb 1, 2015 13:58

Groen: Oct 7, 2008

Finished my build yesterday. Assembling went without a hitch, booted first time, intalling windows 7 was agony.
Apparently it didn't like my 3.0 usb stick so it wouldn't install. Worked fine with an older 2.0 one.

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($224.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H5 Universal 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($46.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($81.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($80.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($152.98 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card ($352.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo EVOLV MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($80.98 @ Newegg)

Tested some games with x4DSR and they looked awsome. Thanks for the great thread and feedback.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 15:39

sauer kraut: Oct 2, 2004

Yeah Win 7 has no native driver for USB 3.0, a fact worth repeating. It also reached its end of life. Don't buy Win 7.
Very nice system otherwise.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 15:46

Bonobos: Jan 26, 2004

Groen posted:

Case: Phanteks Enthoo EVOLV MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($80.98 @ Newegg)

Just curious if you had any issues fitting that particular power supply, especially in regards to if you had the remove the bottom hard drive cage?

Also wondering how you like the overall fit / finish of the case? Some people online are saying it's great others not so much.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 17:39

teknologik: Jul 24, 2006; Write it, cut it,
paste it, save it

Do you guys think a 980 would be sufficient for Occulus Rift when the supposed consumer version is released later this year?

# ? Feb 1, 2015 18:01

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

teknologik posted:

Do you guys think a 980 would be sufficient for Occulus Rift when the supposed consumer version is released later this year?

We haven't announced enough about the consumer version of the Rift for people to really know, I don't think.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 18:03

HERAK: Dec 1, 2004

Subjunctive posted:

We haven't announced enough about the consumer version of the Rift for people to really know, I don't think.

They are apparently demoing it with 980s at trade shows. So if *I* were building a system for an oculus I would want at least a 980. The sensible option is to dave buy getting a 750ti or a 960 now and then picking up the hypothetical gtx 980ti 8gb or gtx 1070 or what ever ati have out at the time of cv1.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 18:13

teknologik: Jul 24, 2006; Write it, cut it,
paste it, save it

Subjunctive posted:

We haven't announced enough about the consumer version of the Rift for people to really know, I don't think.

I guess I expected this answer. I am just in a good position to upgrade right now. Assuming the consumer version goes up for preorder at some point, I will have enough disposable income to purchase it, but perhaps NOT a graphics card upgrade at the same time.. and I am running only a 570 right now.

I know the devkit says:
Recommended specifications: A desktop computer running a dedicated graphics card with DVI-D or HDMI graphics output, with capability of running current generation 3D games at 1080p resolution at 75fps or higher.

There is no 3.5+.5 nonsense going on the with 980 that I have seen so obviously I won't have to take that into account, I would assume that the card would get me through a year or two with gaming, including Occulus Rift...I uh.. hope.

Slowly losing my mind waiting on consumer version also.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 18:16

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

HERAK posted:

They are apparently demoing it with 980s at trade shows.

We're not demoing the consumer version at trade shows, and haven't announced the specifications of the consumer version. (I didn't know that we were talking about the details of the configs at those events, that surprises me a bit.) We also aren't demoing final software by any means.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your advice, I just want to caution against reading too much crystal-balling when it comes to the Rift.

teknologik posted:

Recommended specifications: A desktop computer running a dedicated graphics card with DVI-D or HDMI graphics output, with capability of running current generation 3D games at 1080p resolution at 75fps or higher.

It's an open secret that Crescent Bay is already 90Hz (we haven't talked about the resolution of the screen, but it's also an open secret that it's higher than that of DK2).

quote:

Slowly losing my mind waiting on consumer version also.

We're at least 5x as impatient about getting it out as you are to receive it, if that's any consolation.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 18:26

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Is the cabling for EVGA G1 and G2 PSUs the same? I'm annoyed by how loud my 650W G1 is, and if I can just drop in a G2 without having to recable the world I will probably pull the trigger.

For completeness, the G1 I have is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438026 and the G2 I'm looking at is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438017 . I'm assuming that going even higher in terms of rated power for $20 won't keep affect the fan control thresholds.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 18:49

teknologik: Jul 24, 2006; Write it, cut it,
paste it, save it

I think I'll get the 980, and then the Occulus Rift when that releases.. whenever that is (I'm guessing late Q4 if we are lucky). Then hopefully the drivers + the 980 will allow me to run things acceptable and I will just upgrade and pass that to my other rig sometime in 2016. Someone stop me if I sound like a mad man.

Otherwise it's time for me to figure out what release of the 980 would fit me best.

Ps. I already ordered everything for the second rig earlier in this thread, thanks for everyone's help. I feel pretty confident about the build.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 18:54

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

HalloKitty posted:

If you have up to $250 to spend, Radeon 280X is the best performance/dollar. The 960 is fine at $200, but it's arguable that it's competing with the 280, which does have 50% more VRAM. The Radeons are going to use a bit more power than the 960, though, so if that's a concern, there's your answer.

Basically, the middle ground is still an awkward place to buy a card, the 960 ideally should have been a 192-bit 3GiB card, and the Radeons are getting a bit long in the tooth. There's the 285, but it has only 2GiB, so, I don't find it that useful.

That's helpful, thanks, especially the part about power usage. My current setup is fairly energy inefficient, thanks in part to a dumb AMD 8-core, so I'll stick with the 960. How much does VRAM actually matter? My current 560 has 3GB, I assume that means I'll see less of a performance upgrade going to the 960?

# ? Feb 1, 2015 19:27

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 18:14

HalloKitty: Sep 30, 2005; Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast

sauer kraut posted:

Yeah Win 7 has no native driver for USB 3.0, a fact worth repeating. It also reached its end of life. Don't buy Win 7.
Very nice system otherwise.

It's really not true that Windows 7 is EOL, that's in 2020. If you already have a code for it, there's no reason not to use it, especially seeing as Windows 10 is to be a free upgrade even from 7.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 19:34

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