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Joementum posted:More to do with getting drunk, driving off a bridge, and leaving a woman in the car to die. Wasn't an issue for GWB (with his drunk driving crash), although the killing part was by Laura.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:25
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ThirdPartyView posted:Wasn't an issue for GWB (with his drunk driving crash), although the killing part was by Laura. Neither of those was three years before the primary.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:32
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Idran posted:Neither of those was three years before the primary. Didn't stop the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth from being very successful in 2004.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:33
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ThirdPartyView posted:Didn't stop the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth from being very successful in 2004. I'm honestly not sure what point you're trying to argue; are you saying that Chappaquidick wasn't why Ted Kennedy didn't get the nomination in '72?
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Jan 31, 2015 21:35
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Nixon also had multiple people at CREEP working to dig up dirt on Kennedy and would regularly send him warnings about this. His hatred of that family was intense. Oh, and this: quote:Haldeman: You've got one United States Senator [Kennedy] who is a secondary factor in the [1972 presidential] campaign. You give him [Secret Service] coverage through the campaign.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:35
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How bad was Ted's womanizing compared to JFK?
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Jan 31, 2015 21:37
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Idran posted:I'm honestly not sure what point you're trying to argue; are you saying that Chappaquidick wasn't why Ted Kennedy didn't get the nomination in '72? He didn't because he refused to run, despite polls suggesting he could still get the nomination. I'm sure it was a factor into why he didn't run, just like the threats from Nixon about other poo poo being dug up, etc, but I don't think it was the sole reason he did not run.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:41
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Chamale posted:Ike was the best Republican president since Lincoln. Teddy Roosevelt was technically a Republican.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:49
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Jackson Taus posted:Teddy Roosevelt was technically a Republican. He would also probably be best friends with GWB.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:51
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ufarn posted:How bad was Ted's womanizing compared to JFK? Well, he had a body count.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:55
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Wait, Laura Bush killed somebody?
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Jan 31, 2015 22:50
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Joementum posted:Nixon also had multiple people at CREEP working to dig up dirt on Kennedy and would regularly send him warnings about this. His hatred of that family was intense. He really resented the Kennedys on a deeply personal level, especially after 1960. The Kennedys played so dirty during it that it's easy to identify with Nixon. Then there is the weird anecdote where there was a lot of pressure on JFK to act on the Cuban Missile Crisis, and Nixon is sent from Congress to browbeat JFK into a more hawkish position. But when Nixon arrived in the office, he noticed how much stress it was causing to JFK and said that he couldn't attack a man in such a fragile state. Then he killed like 400,000 Cambodians. Nixon was weird.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:53
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VanSandman posted:Wait, Laura Bush killed somebody? Killed a classmate in a car accident when she was a teenager.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:54
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VanSandman posted:Wait, Laura Bush killed somebody? As a high school student she ran a stop sign and crashed into another high school student and killed him. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/books/28laura.html
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Jan 31, 2015 22:55
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The Warszawa posted:Well, he had a body count.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:55
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baw posted:He really resented the Kennedys on a deeply personal level, especially after 1960. The Kennedys played so dirty during it that it's easy to identify with Nixon. I totally understand Nixon's resentment of the Kennedy family. He's a kid who clawed his way to the top, coming from a poor family, and having to debase himself in front of the entire nation to win the mild approval of the man (Eisenhower) he helped win the nomination, and he gets beaten by a dilettante son of a bootlegger? Of course, Nixon's pathology didn't end there, which became a bit of a problem.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:58
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Idran posted:By "your reading", do you mean the part where she was asked if she was going to run and her response was a straightforward "No."? As in "Everything I've read", so yeah. Jerkstore.
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Jan 31, 2015 23:06
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baw posted:The really confusing part was the floor fight that Thompson covered in FaL on the Campaign Trail '72. Fear and Loathing: On The Campaign Trail '72 is probably one of the best books to read to understand that campaign. Thompson actually managed to dial it down a notch or two, so its a bit more objective than the usual gonzo journalism.
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Jan 31, 2015 23:10
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DMR Iowa poll! [The poll was taken before Mitt Romney's Friday announcement that he wouldn't make a third White House bid. He received the backing of 13 percent of likely Republican caucus participants, ranking third. When his supporters are re-allocated to their second choice, Walker's backing grows to 16 percent, followed by 15 percent for Paul, 13 percent for Huckabee, and 10 percent for Carson. Removing Romney from his third-place spot had no effect on the ranking order of the other top potential candidates and offered the biggest boost to Huckabee. Bush's overall number inched up just one point, to 9 percent.]
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Feb 1, 2015 00:40
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As I've been telling you guys since (even before) Nov 7, 2012: watch out for Scott Walker.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:42
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Joementum posted:As I've been telling you guys since (even before) Nov 7, 2012: watch out for Scott Walker.  Oh and a couple pictures of cheese. fade5 fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Feb 1, 2015 |
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Feb 1, 2015 01:19
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The problem I have with Scott Walker's potential for the white house is that I don't really see him having anything remarkable, aside from surviving a recall attempt. Even Mitt Romney could point to some fairly significant accomplishments during his tenure as governor. And if he's running on the "he knows this one trick that drives liberals CRAZY" thing that gets the spite vote, then Chris Christie is likely in a better position to court that.
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Feb 1, 2015 01:34
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TheBalor posted:Even Mitt Romney could point to some fairly significant accomplishments during his tenure as governor. Mitt Romney had one significant achievement as Governor and it was a huge disadvantage to him in the Republican primaries.
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Feb 1, 2015 01:36
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TheBalor posted:The problem I have with Scott Walker's potential for the white house is that I don't really see him having anything remarkable, aside from surviving a recall attempt. Even Mitt Romney could point to some fairly significant accomplishments during his tenure as governor. And if he's running on the "he knows this one trick that drives liberals CRAZY" thing that gets the spite vote, then Chris Christie is likely in a better position to court that.
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Feb 1, 2015 01:41
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Scott Walker is going to be made to look like an idiot. There's a lot of graduate level education on that stage for him only having a High School diploma. Rick Perry even graduated college, and that was before his smart glasses. Which is of course ignoring economic issues with Wisconson which will be neatly wrapped up and placed at his feet.
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Feb 1, 2015 02:10
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Yeah, I don't see Walker going anywhere, Wisconsin is too much of a shithole after his governorship. No amount of Koch money can save him from being a bit of an idiot. At least that's what the foolish optimist in me says.
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Feb 1, 2015 02:19
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among a lot of right wing circles I lurk in, there's a perception of walker and Wisconsin as being a huge tea party success story, because Walker destroyed the unions and saved the state, and fended off a recall from those nasty libs. There's just a total cluelessness on how lovely Wisconsin's gotten under his tenure, and as soon as "49th in Jobs" starts making the rounds, it's gonna tank him. Scott Walker is doing good because nobody knows who he is or anything about him. He's a half remembered talking point from three years ago, and as soon as the lights come up on his receding hairline, he'll tank.
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Feb 1, 2015 02:41
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Gyges posted:Scott Walker is going to be made to look like an idiot. There's a lot of graduate level education on that stage for him only having a High School diploma. Why do you think this will be a disadvantage? Pushing back against intellectuals and pushing psuedo-populist ideals would seem to be a great strategy for a Republican candidate.
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Feb 1, 2015 02:46
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PupsOfWar posted:Mitt Romney: Secretary of Housing and Urban Development 
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Feb 1, 2015 02:58
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Being from Wisconsin, I support any path that leads Walker out of the statehouse, as long as it doesn't lead to the White House. The more damaging for Walker, the better for Wisconsin.
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Feb 1, 2015 03:10
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I just have a feeling he's going to end up like Rick Perry. Seemingly invincible tea party bogeyman who collapses the instant he moves outside the state.
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Feb 1, 2015 03:32
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bradburypancakes posted:Why do you think this will be a disadvantage? Pushing back against intellectuals and pushing psuedo-populist ideals would seem to be a great strategy for a Republican candidate. The best was when all the 2012 GOP primary candidates were on stage, who all had advanced degrees, were trashing 'snooty, liberal education'. 
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Feb 1, 2015 03:35
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baw posted:He really resented the Kennedys on a deeply personal level, especially after 1960. The Kennedys played so dirty during it that it's easy to identify with Nixon. How anyone ever took Richard Nixon complaining about dirty tricks on a campaign is mind boggling.
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Feb 1, 2015 03:45
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bradburypancakes posted:Why do you think this will be a disadvantage? Pushing back against intellectuals and pushing psuedo-populist ideals would seem to be a great strategy for a Republican candidate. Because as much as the GOP likes to discount education, they're not going to think a guy who only has a High School diploma is good enough. Intellectual heavy weights like Sara Palin and Rick Perry have college degrees. The whole point of being anti-intellectual is to counter all that science and knowledge that disagrees with their positions, not because they actually don't like education. It's great for them and their kids, just not "those" people. Additionally Scott Walker doesn't have anything on his resume other than being a politician in Wisconsin*, and any numbers he wants to pull from there aren't going to stack up well with voters. "Wisconsin, hey we're better than a couple states!" isn't a winning campaign. Though I guess he does get to say he's better than Louisiana's governor at least a couple times. *A couple years with the Red Cross isn't winning you any points with the GOP.
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Feb 1, 2015 04:17
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ThirdPartyView posted:The best was when all the 2012 GOP primary candidates were on stage, who all had advanced degrees, were trashing 'snooty, liberal education'. That's been a hallmark of the right for a long time, really. I mean look at their voting demographics. One of their strongest blocs is wealthy white dudes who have a tendency to be fairly well-educated.
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Feb 1, 2015 05:31
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baw posted:He really resented the Kennedys on a deeply personal level, especially after 1960. The Kennedys played so dirty during it that it's easy to identify with Nixon. Our only Quaker/Navy veteran president.
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Feb 1, 2015 07:29
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No Sarah Palin in that poll? I guess they left her out because it would skew the results; 40% for Palin, I'll bet. 
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Feb 1, 2015 08:22
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The X-man cometh posted:Our only Quaker/Navy veteran president. He was just there when the bombs were falling.
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Feb 1, 2015 08:43
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DynamicSloth posted:Kennedy's "playing dirty" in 1960 has been vastly overblown since the time, largely a by-product of a seemingly close election with lots of GOP lawsuits that were all laughed out of court. It wasn't even a particularly close call in the electoral college, no one state other than New York could have changed the outcome and it wasn't particularly close. there. Which accounts of the election have you read? Between Bobby's behind-the-scenes arm twisting and papa Joe's relentless pursuit of campaign funds (he acquired a lot of money through very shady dealings,) as well as the Kennedy's love affair with the media, Nixon was running a comparatively honest and straightforward campaign. Hell, Kennedy know about ongoing secret high-level discussions within the Eisenhower administration about taking a more hawkish stance on Cuba, and with that knowledge he came out saying that the current administration was being too dovish. Since Nixon was unable to explain the current aggressive stance that was being planned against Cuba, he was forced to argue (against his own personal beliefs and policy initiatives) that a tougher approach wasn't the answer. Now that's tricky. The accusations of voter fraud were just an addendum.
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Feb 1, 2015 10:54
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baw posted:Nixon was running a comparatively honest and straightforward campaign. In 1960, yes. Later on....
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Feb 1, 2015 11:36
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