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Oxxidation posted:In light of Occ's latest writeup, I have to say, that thread was such a good idea. Someday he's going to learn to not make these kinds of broad assumptions about the show. And that day will be a sad day for all of us.
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Feb 1, 2015 05:50
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The Angels Take Manhattan feels like, to me, the only script Moffat had to write as opposed to wanted to write. It feels very much like he started with the idea that he had to write out Amy and Rory and worked backwards from there. It's a shame the split season stuff screwed around with everything so much.
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Feb 1, 2015 05:50
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Everything about Series 7 feels like Moffat's earlier scheduling troubles catching up with him and it's not until Series 8 that he finally rights the ship again. It's a crying shame, even though I think Clara's relatively dry characterization in 7 is important to why she's so great in 8.
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Feb 1, 2015 06:09
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howe_sam posted:Moffat has had the good sense not to go back to them. Yeah. Although I think it would've been neat if it was revealed he occasionally chats to them on the phone.
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Feb 1, 2015 06:21
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I think having a full season for her and the Doctor to bond together despite the Doctor's suspicions/paranoia about her would have done wonders for her. They could have given some room to her character to breathe, so that the Doctor's sudden,"You're just Clara, you're not a trap or a robot or something, you're just Clara!" moment could have felt a little more earned. I was really sad that her "I don't know who I am" at the end of The Name of the Doctor didn't really get a chance to be explored (until that point, she literally existed to save the Doctor's life in whatever circumstances that required) and they just jumped straight to the best mates bit in the following couple of episodes. That DID however make season 8 work so well, as she's left reeling by the sudden change to the person she thought she finally knew, and her eventual reconciliation with this new incarnation in a way that felt more natural than what she had with the Eleventh Doctor. I'm VERY glad she's sticking around for season 9.
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Feb 1, 2015 06:32
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Jerusalem posted:I think having a full season for her and the Doctor to bond together despite the Doctor's suspicions/paranoia about her would have done wonders for her. They could have given some room to her character to breathe, so that the Doctor's sudden,"You're just Clara, you're not a trap or a robot or something, you're just Clara!" moment could have felt a little more earned. I was really sad that her "I don't know who I am" at the end of The Name of the Doctor didn't really get a chance to be explored (until that point, she literally existed to save the Doctor's life in whatever circumstances that required) and they just jumped straight to the best mates bit in the following couple of episodes. That DID however make season 8 work so well, as she's left reeling by the sudden change to the person she thought she finally knew, and her eventual reconciliation with this new incarnation in a way that felt more natural than what she had with the Eleventh Doctor. It's not only the sudden change of the Doctor, but the change of her own role - she's no longer "The Impossible Girl," she's just a very tiny schoolteacher who turns out to have less-than-ideal coping skills when a situation starts spiraling out of control. That brief flash back to her breaking down in front of her class in "Deep Breath" was great, to me, not because it leads in to her interrogation with the Half-Faced Man but because it shows how horribly out of her depth Clara's become and how she needs to adapt in order to survive around Twelve. And she does adapt, a little too well, which culminates in her coolly threatening to kill them both if she doesn't get her boyfriend back. Clara probably gets the most actual character development out of all the revival Companions. The fact that said development occasionally involves bitch-slapping Capaldi is just a bonus.
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Feb 1, 2015 06:38
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Gotta agree with all that, and the chemistry between the two is great as well. I love the exchange,"I'm his carer" "That's right, she cares so I don't have to" so much - it sums up pretty well both the chummy nature of their relationship as well a pretty accurate description of how they work together. She provides a filter/buffer between him and other people and gives him a perspective he lacks, and the fact he's the way he is with her goes to show how much he cares for/trusts her, because he feels he can engage with her in a fairly straightforward way. So when he DOES attempt to gloss over things with her or treat her like "regular" people, she gets pissed, because she knows him better than that and he should know her better than that too. The power dynamic between the two of them really is quite fascinating.
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Feb 1, 2015 06:48
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Jerusalem posted:Haha, doesn't he say something like,"Not now Rory, I'm trying to figure out what obvious thing I'm missing!"? I believe it's actually about something being right under his nose (which I think is the trigger that gets him to realize the implications of rory being back, continuing the fine tradition of "Rory has a big nose" jokes) 
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Feb 1, 2015 08:02
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Jerusalem posted:Haha, doesn't he say something like,"Not now Rory, I'm trying to figure out what obvious thing I'm missing!"? Several somethings. I can't find a video of it, so tough, go watch it yourself.
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Feb 1, 2015 08:30
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Fucknag posted:Several somethings. I can't find a video of it, so tough, go watch it yourself. Like I needed an excuse to watch those two episodes again! 
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Feb 1, 2015 08:35
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quote:They're, ostensibly, two different characters played in the exact same, hammy way by an actress who wasn't even able to make Alaya compelling, so a double billing of McIntosh does not work in the slightest. It's bad enough to have a bad actress play two different lizard people Ha. Haha. Hahahahha. Hahhahahahahhahahah. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
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Feb 1, 2015 08:36
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Jerusalem posted:Like I needed an excuse to watch those two episodes again! God dammit I started Pandorica Opens to find the scene in question and now I'm doing it too. Why was that season so good?
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Feb 1, 2015 08:41
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Fucknag posted:God dammit I started Pandorica Opens to find the scene in question and now I'm doing it too. I reckon Moffat had been writing his perfect season of Doctor Who his entire life.
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Feb 1, 2015 08:45
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CobiWann posted:At the same time, seeing the Doctor eagerly lead a Time Lord ambush to destroy a fleet of Daleks, or storming across a table to choke a fellow Time Lord, is shocking. Mann doesn't go down the rabbit hole of describing all the horrible things the War Doctor has done, but instead gives the readers of Engines of War a Doctor who is familiar, but still different enough to raise a few eyebrows. Mann also gets around the concept of “Doctor no more” by telling Cinder he used to be called the Doctor, hence the constant use of his name by his companion. Yeah, I liked they way he pretty much implied that nobody out there, from the Time Lords to the Daleks, was humoring the Doctor in not calling him "The Doctor" that whole incarnation. "I'm not The Doctor, don't call me that." "Ok, whatever DOCTOR."  In other news, I just listened to the 8th Doctor audio Orbis and while it was kinda "ok" and the villains were the worst since the Rat King, I was struck by how similar the concept of the Doctor spending centuries on Orbis, defending these jellyfish people, becoming a living legend among them for generations was to his time on Trenzalore.
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Feb 1, 2015 18:42
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Jerusalem posted:
I just hope that they're a little friendlier than they were in 8. Their little Peter Pan moment and him asking him to come with her at the end of the Christmas episode was really sweet and it would be a shame if they threw them into conflict right away. I was very unimpressed with her in season 7, probably because of how weird and rushed everything about the season was, but I really liked her in season 8 in Coleman's chemistry with Capaldi has been great. I have some high hopes for season 9. It seems like they're finally out of the weeds in the production kinks, so maybe they can just focus on getting some good scripts.
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Feb 1, 2015 21:07
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Is the silurian 2 parter thr worst episodes of smiths run? The only episode I think might be as bad is wardrobe.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:13
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Little_wh0re posted:Is the silurian 2 parter thr worst episodes of smiths run? The only episode I think might be as bad is wardrobe. In the Forest of the Night was worse than it even before Rory's death. Rings of Akhaten is about as boring, just shorter.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:20
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Little_wh0re posted:Is the silurian 2 parter thr worst episodes of smiths run? The only episode I think might be as bad is wardrobe. Depends. Let's Kill Hitler is for a lot of people the moment where Moffat terminally hosed up Smith's entire run (it was the lynchpin of nearly all his major plot arcs and turned out okay at best). The Time of the Doctor is a huge bummer because of how it hastily papers over all of the mysteries that had been set up in the last three seasons. The Angels Take Manhattan was not the ending that nu-Who's longest-running Companions deserved. But all of those are at least tolerable in the act of watching, they've got fun bits and funny bits and bits that stick out in your head. The Silurian two-parter is misery on-screen and in retrospect. I don't think its awfulness is topped until Kill the Moon.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:21
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Rings of Akhatan is the only Smith one I seem incapable of revisiting because I hate it so, so much, but I also haven't revisited the Silurian two parter in ages. Maybe it's worse. Still, I know someone in this thread loves it, but Akhatan is probably my least favourite Smith episode.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:23
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DetoxP posted:Rings of Akhatan is the only Smith one I seem incapable of revisiting because I hate it so, so much, but I also haven't revisited the Silurian two parter in ages. Maybe it's worse. Still, I know someone in this thread loves it, but Akhatan is probably my least favourite Smith episode. Yeah, I've seen people in this thread talk about it highly. I wish I saw the episode they watched.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:24
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The Rings of Akhaten's main crime is being way too saccharine, where I'm concerned. There are worse faults. I get the feeling Occ will adore it.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:26
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Yeah, I've seen people in this thread talk about it highly. I wish I saw the episode they watched. I really liked Akhaten. It was structured a little weirdly, but it had a good Smith speech, Clara's first great character moment, some sort of nice music, and a great cantina-style assortment of characters. I don't really see what its detractors dislike about it; it's probably one of my favorites from S7.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:27
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Rochallor posted:I don't really see what its detractors dislike about it His speech felt like something I'd heard a million times before, there's one of the more awful bits of sonic screwdriver usage in the show and the (admittedly good) aliens were just background material. I can think of Smith episodes that annoyed me more (Kill the Moon) but those generally have things I really liked, or at least tried (Kill the Moon). Wardrobe is another stinker though.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:32
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Oxxidation posted:The Rings of Akhaten's main crime is being way too saccharine, where I'm concerned. There are worse faults. I largely agree with this, and the fact that they did the Living Sun thing again, but some how dumber. NOW not only is this living star sentient and murderous, it ALSO has a big growly face! GRR!
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Feb 2, 2015 01:54
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I mean, the speech, while stirring and ~epic~ and rather cliche, doesn't actually accopmplish anything. Which is pretty clever.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:58
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Smith =/= Moffat, so I don't know why y'all keep talking about Forest of the Night and Kill the Moon.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:08
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DetoxP posted:Still, I know someone in this thread loves it Hi there! There are two reasons why I think I rate it so highly. The first, and probably most important, is that it sums up the themes and ethos of Doctor Who more neatly than any other episode I can think of. It's the beginning of the Eleventh Doctor's transformation from the brash and terrifying Galactic Policeman and Slayer of Monsters to a man who would, without hesitation, without question, sacrifice everything for someone he's just met. And in a season where Clara's characterization was few and far between, this episode served to establish exactly who she was for me. And it does it with exactly the sort of fairy-tale atmosphere that In The Forest Of The Night got so tragically wrong. I know it's not going to appeal to everyone, but it genuinely is my favorite Doctor Who story. In any medium. Since 1963. (Yes, I've heard The Chimes of Midnight/Spare Parts/insert good audio story here.) Oh, the second reason. I liked the singing.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:09
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All I remember about The Rings of Akhaten is some neat monster heads and decent nice colour design, which alone put it ahead of The Hungry Earth/In Cold Blood.MikeJF posted:I reckon Moffat had been writing his perfect season of Doctor Who his entire life. Does that make S6 the "difficult second album"?
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Feb 2, 2015 02:24
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qntm posted:Does that make S6 the "difficult second album"? I think that everyone except maybe Phil Sandifer would agree unequivically on that assessment.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:26
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qntm posted:Does that make S6 the "difficult second album"?
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Feb 2, 2015 02:32
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qntm posted:Does that make S6 the "difficult second album"? That's a really good analogy, yeah. A few hits, but the album doesn't quite work.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:36
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Rings is one of my favorites too, it just captures my imagination and I find the message it (rather clumsily) tries to deliver to be really inspiring and uplifting. The communal spirit of the crowd rejecting the philosophy of their old God and embracing the potential and camaraderie of their society was really, really beautiful to me. As for the WORST episode of Moffat's run, it has to be The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe for me. It's appallingly bad, just terrible, and commits the worst crime possible - it wastes a cameo by Bill Bailey.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:37
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Apparently Amazon is dropping Doctor Who because they're not getting it exclusively, which blows for me, because that's how I've been watching it. Drat.
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Feb 2, 2015 03:12
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Oxxidation posted:In light of Occ's latest writeup, I have to say, that thread was such a good idea. It was beautiful. I am so glad nobody spoiled what happens to Rory for him, either his death or return. I'm wondering if his anger about the Silurian two-parter will spill over into the next couple of episodes, or if he'll take them on their own merits. If the latter, I think Vincent and the Doctor will RUIN him. I was watching a Dr Who marathon on TV and when Vincent and the Doctor came up, I started watching, and then realized I wasn't emotionally in a state where I could handle it.  Obviously we will need you to record Occ's reaction to Rory's glorious return. that'll probably be a high watermark of the thread, although the River Song=Melody Pond reveal might top that. or his reaction to Let's Kill Hitler, hoping he dislikes it as much as I do.
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Feb 2, 2015 06:10
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Bicyclops posted:Apparently Amazon is dropping Doctor Who because they're not getting it exclusively, which blows for me, because that's how I've been watching it. Drat. Bah! I was going to actually order it on there this season so I wouldn't have to always scramble to figure out how to watch each new episode.
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Feb 2, 2015 12:42
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RodShaft posted:Bah! I was going to actually order it on there this season so I wouldn't have to always scramble to figure out how to watch each new episode. It just means it won't be part of Prime. You'll still be able to buy it from them.
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Feb 2, 2015 16:19
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Bicyclops posted:Apparently Amazon is dropping Doctor Who because they're not getting it exclusively, which blows for me, because that's how I've been watching it. Drat. Yeah Amazon has a tendency to be a bit dickish with publishers regarding exclusivity (just from my own personal experience). I'm just happy that their Classic Who selection was only slightly better than Netflix so I'm not missing out on much.
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Feb 2, 2015 19:56
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Gaz-L posted:It just means it won't be part of Prime. You'll still be able to buy it from them. That's really confusing... None of it was free on Prime before, so I don't understand what the difference is?
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Feb 2, 2015 21:02
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Bicyclops posted:That's really confusing... None of it was free on Prime before, so I don't understand what the difference is? All the old seasons were on Prime. The currently airing season you had to pay for.
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Feb 2, 2015 21:14
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howe_sam posted:All the old seasons were on Prime. The currently airing season you had to pay for. Ah, okay. Well, that's a relief. Doctor Who is the only show that I pay for as it airs (well, the day after it airs, technically). Everything else I'm happy to get on Netflix later, and it's not worth the price for cable for one show and the sports championships.
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Feb 2, 2015 21:17
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