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R+L=J 99.999% confirmed I guess?
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Feb 4, 2015 21:36
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There were no dragons. Hahahaha.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:42
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Interesting that Sansa was always useless and wasn't considered one of the Big Five. I wonder how the hardcore Sansa fans will react to her always being a traitor, even if in the final version it's dialed down. Also, drat what is up with the proto-Arya that everyone is hot for her. I hope this leak makes GRRM really mad.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:43
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Well duh, Phyllis hadn't butted her head in yet
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Feb 4, 2015 21:43
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It's funny how he worded it, talks about them being in agony over brother sister loving until Jon finds out the truth, when it's only first cousin loving?
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Feb 4, 2015 21:43
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I spent way too long trying to figure out who the fifth character in the Big Five was before remembering Bran. He's just so forgettable guys
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Feb 4, 2015 21:48
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In It For The Tank posted:Interesting that Sansa was always useless and wasn't considered one of the Big Five. I wonder how the hardcore Sansa fans will react to her always being a traitor, even if in the final version it's dialed down. GRRM originally said how Sansa was going to be a side character at first. She's certainly as big as Bran at least and the traitor plot got toned down to her trusting Cersei with Ned's plans, something that's so minor it isn't even in the show. Also there was going to be no Cersei, this is the biggest crime of all.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:48
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Here are the images for posterity:   I reckon that the censored portion could be deciphered with enough effort. Maybe not the whole thing, but if you match the font it's just a matter of process of elimination to match letters with the partially uncovered bits. I expect this to really bite GRRM in the rear end.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:49
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Anonymous Zebra posted:There were no dragons. Hahahaha. Um, there were.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:51
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In It For The Tank posted:Here are the images for posterity: his last paragraph explicitly states that those pages can be shared with anyone who is interested.....so......he can go gently caress himself in his fat loving rear end.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:55
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There's not a whole lot of plot points that remained in the final drafts, so what's with the redacting?
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Feb 4, 2015 21:57
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PostNouveau posted:There's not a whole lot of plot points that remained in the final drafts, so what's with the redacting? I assume that's the only part that we don't already know for a fact isn't happening, which means it could very well still be a spoiler
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Feb 4, 2015 21:59
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PostNouveau posted:There's not a whole lot of plot points that remained in the final drafts, so what's with the redacting? ?? Most of those either came to pass already, or happened in different ways, or never happened. So redacting them was unnecessary.
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Feb 4, 2015 22:00
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I suppose what I really mean is, who did the redacting? Someone who actually knows that ending's legit?
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Feb 4, 2015 22:13
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PostNouveau posted:I suppose what I really mean is, who did the redacting? Someone who actually knows that ending's legit? Well, I think that's the point: they didn't know whether it was legit or not. And even if it isn't legit, if you look at the rest of the manuscript, many of the plot points did come to pass, even if in different ways. For example, Bran does travel north of the wall, except with Hodor instead of with Catelyn. And Robb is killed, except during his wedding instead of in battle. So there's a good chance that the redacted ending will have important information that would hurt both the books and the show if it came out.
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Feb 4, 2015 22:28
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Also, Arya's death has been foreshadowed to poo poo, so either she isn't one of the central characters anymore or he's changed his mind about the 5 characters surviving to the end. King Jaime would loving rule though, only good thing from this whole leak.
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Feb 4, 2015 22:32
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BillBear posted:King Jaime would loving rule though, only good thing from this whole leak. That was pretty heavily foreshadowed at the beginning of the series too -- remember Ned coming into the Red Keep immediately post-Kingslaying to find Jaime sitting on the Iron Throne -- but I'm personally happier with the Jaime we ended up with. Complex characters are always better.
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Feb 4, 2015 22:34
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enraged_camel posted:Um, there were. I missed the mention of the dragons below the glare on the glass. You would think he would mention dragons in the first paragraph where he describes the invasion.
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Feb 4, 2015 22:38
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BillBear posted:Also, Arya's death has been foreshadowed to poo poo Has it? If she dies I'll be very sad.
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Feb 4, 2015 22:40
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enraged_camel posted:Has it? If she dies I'll be very sad. Biggest thing I recall is a passage early on about her lovely sewing and how Jon joked she would be found dead at the end of winter in the spring thaw with a needle in her hand
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Feb 4, 2015 22:44
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I won't
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Feb 4, 2015 22:45
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enraged_camel posted:Has it? If she dies I'll be very sad. Jon says they would find her frozen corpse with Needle in her hand, Ned says the Wolf Blood in the Starks sends them to early graves and the Frey who was meant to be married to Arya is deeply upset at hearing he won't get to, due to Robb ruining his relation with Walder, Arya basically responds by saying " I hope your princess dies!". Death is also a huge thing in her story so it seems fitting for it to end with her own.
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Feb 4, 2015 22:49
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grrm has said on several occasions that he wont kill her.
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Feb 4, 2015 22:50
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Ballz posted:Biggest thing I recall is a passage early on about her lovely sewing and how Jon joked she would be found dead at the end of winter in the spring thaw with a needle in her hand I remember that too, but I thought that was included as a way to symbolize Arya's character progression, i.e. her stubborn desire to become a fighter instead of a proper lady like Sansa.
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Feb 4, 2015 22:51
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Yeah I'm p sure his wife has forbidden him to kill Arya because she has correctly assessed that Arya is the best character
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Feb 4, 2015 22:52
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TommyGun85 posted:grrm has said on several occasions that he wont kill her. Creep Armor, the only thing more powerful than plot armor
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Feb 4, 2015 22:52
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Professor Shark posted:Creep Armor, the only thing more powerful than plot armor im afraid he has worse things in store for her than death.
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Feb 4, 2015 22:55
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TommyGun85 posted:grrm has said on several occasions that he wont kill her. He said this because his wife told him not to, he later said he was joking around and that no one is safe.
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Feb 4, 2015 23:13
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GRRM saying constantly that his wife forbids him to kill Arya is the biggest sign to me that she will bite it at some point. If it was actually true, he wouldn't be telling everyone.
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Feb 4, 2015 23:41
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Ballz posted:Biggest thing I recall is a passage early on about her lovely sewing and how Jon joked she would be found dead at the end of winter in the spring thaw with a needle in her hand um. isn't her sword named Needle, as well? that could go a few ways.
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Feb 4, 2015 23:53
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I don't expect any Stark except Sansa and Rickon make it to the end. The whole purpose of the Rickon chatacter is to preserve the blood line of the Starks.
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Feb 4, 2015 23:57
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I keep reading those pages, but cannot really gather any information on what can happen in the next couple books 
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Feb 5, 2015 00:10
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Anonymous Zebra posted:I missed the mention of the dragons below the glare on the glass. You would think he would mention dragons in the first paragraph where he describes the invasion. It's never mentioned that Tyrion is a dwarf. I wonder when he got the idea to make him one?
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Feb 5, 2015 00:22
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The original 3-part Stark vs. Lannister/Dragon Invasion/Others Invasion plan was pretty structurally solid. I kind of wish we got that. Maybe, maybe, Dany being with the Dothraki again means she will in fact invade Westeros with them as originally planned?
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Feb 5, 2015 00:27
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I always envisioned Dany coming to Westeros in tattered clothes, giggling to herself, biting her own fingers in her madness along with her massive dragons. I never thought of her as having a proper invasion with an army, assumed that everything that could go wrong for her would, and it would just her alone and seeking revenge on a continent of faceless matchstick people.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:31
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Arya is gonna be hired by Euron Greyjoy to kill Sansa. It is known.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:32
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the escape goat posted:um. isn't her sword named Needle, as well? that could go a few ways. That's the point. First time you read, you just see it as a harmless joke about her being forced to do stitchwork. On re-read it becomes much more ominous as you visualize it being her sword in hand instead.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:33
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Can't you argue that she did die by becoming a Faceless Man? She doesn't even get chapters called "Arya" anymore. They are named after the identities that she assumes.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:46
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Yes, but so do a lot of others, such as Sansa and Theon. It's a theme; like poetry or something.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:50
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"GRRM won't kill Arya, his wife made him promise not to!" is one of the biggest fanon wanks in the fandom. He has never said that. He once said that Parris doesn't want Arya to die, but that's it. He's never said anything about promising not to kill her. (Not to mention that the foreshadowing for Arya's death is really on-the-nose)
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Feb 5, 2015 00:59
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