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It's hard to know what the real truth is with Navy Cross, though. The Japanese military was rather duplicitous and brutal during the war; were they really surrendering? Why would they sneak in at night while everyone was sleeping and crouch over the officer? I mean I'm sure it's supposed to be the truth as written in the writer's room, but it's really kind of a dumb story.
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Feb 4, 2015 15:59
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Is anyone else expecting Dottie's real name to be Yelena?
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Feb 4, 2015 16:11
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Medium Cool posted:Is anyone else expecting Dottie's real name to be Yelena? Producers already said no.
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Feb 4, 2015 16:16
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Colonial Air Force posted:It's hard to know what the real truth is with Navy Cross, though. The Japanese military was rather duplicitous and brutal during the war; were they really surrendering? Why would they sneak in at night while everyone was sleeping and crouch over the officer? Seeing as he later admitted other parts of the story were bullshit, I thought it was pretty obvious that the "sneaking around and crouching over the officer" part was also made-up, to make it sound like they were an invading force and not a pathetic surrendering rabble. As for "why during night"? If you're a group of soldiers trying to go AWOL off your lunatic commander, I'd guess it's probably a lot easier to do under cover of darkness than in the middle of the day while everyone's watching you. That's me doing the writers' job, though.
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Feb 4, 2015 16:40
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That's kind of what I mean. It's not really clear, and because of the realities of the war in the Pacific, it should have been. Maybe a flashback. But I get what the writers were TRYING to do, so this is no way a "Did the dog gently caress an inhuman" or whatever.
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Feb 4, 2015 17:16
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Colonial Air Force posted:That's kind of what I mean. It's not really clear, and because of the realities of the war in the Pacific, it should have been. Maybe a flashback. I think you're supposed to piece it together from the two stories. He fell asleep on night watch (which is obviously a big no-no) and woke up to find a bunch of Japanese soldiers in his camp. He immediately shot them and then noticed the white flag. His biggest sin is falling asleep, and, if he'd told the truth, that's what they would have courtmartialed him for. I don't think he shot the Japanese soldiers in cold blood, and, given that the War in the Pacific was brutal, ruthless and bloody as all hell on both sides, it's easy to see why he would have done it. The Japanese were far from innocent in any of that, so, when you wake up and see a bunch of them in your camp, your first instinct is probably to kill them, not wait for them to start slitting throats. That said, he was certainly a coward for covering it up and it's pretty obvious that he knows it. If he was heartless dick, he wouldn't be constantly wracked with guilt over it. The whole thing makes him a better, more interesting character, even if I don't like him as a person, he's at least got a better motivation than rear end in a top hat war hero, which is what everyone thought up to this episode. The Red Room stuff was as dark as anything I've seen on TV recently. It actually answers a few questions about Black Widow (why doesn't she have a Russian accent being the biggest one) in a way that makes perfect sense. If you're training espionage agents, eliminating their accents and indoctrinating them into the culture you're trying to spy on (America) is pretty much the way to do it. The subliminal messages and other poo poo is pretty twisted and, I think, they show the effect really well with Dottie. Her lingering in Peggy's room and mimicking her accent lends a little credence to her being hosed up in the head and not being an absolutely perfect spy/killing machine. What they do to those girls obviously scars them.
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Feb 4, 2015 18:59
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The mimicking accent thing looks like it's going to come into play next week as the preview showed Dottie doing dirt while dressed up as Peggy, causing the SSR to think she's gone traitor.
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Feb 4, 2015 19:15
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Never understood how a training program where half the aspirants get killed by the other half is supposed to be a good idea. Just because you got beaten in a fight once when you're 12 doesn't mean you'd make a bad agent. Jesus. Surely there are better ways of removing any problems they might have with killing. A field trip to the gulags or something would serve the same purpose.
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Feb 4, 2015 19:21
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Mymla posted:Never understood how a training program where half the aspirants get killed by the other half is supposed to be a good idea. Just because you got beaten in a fight once when you're 12 doesn't mean you'd make a bad agent. Jesus. Considering the old Soviet Union's military doctrine was basically, 'There's more where that came from.', it really doesn't seem that weird. They've got an effectively limitless supply of girls and they only want the most ruthless. If you can kill a classmate that you actually pal around with (and share bread with), you'll probably kill pretty much anyone. It was more about the girl who survives than the one who died. It's also a good test of their subliminal indoctrination. Killing prisoners they have no connection with wouldn't really yield the same results. It's pretty hosed up, sure, but they don't care about these girls beyond using them as agents. muscles like this? posted:The mimicking accent thing looks like it's going to come into play next week as the preview showed Dottie doing dirt while dressed up as Peggy, causing the SSR to think she's gone traitor. I hadn't seen that yet. Still, I'm going to stick by my assessment of Dottie as deeply disturbed.
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Feb 4, 2015 19:42
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Mymla posted:Never understood how a training program where half the aspirants get killed by the other half is supposed to be a good idea. Just because you got beaten in a fight once when you're 12 doesn't mean you'd make a bad agent. Jesus. Isn't the point of that sort of thing usually to harden the (best) recruits, rather than eliminating the weaker ones. Like killing a dog you've taken care of for a long time...
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Feb 4, 2015 19:44
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Yeah I dunno, I think I'd rather have 20 good agents than 10 great agents. But then again, this is the nation which allegedly sent half their soldiers into combat unarmed and told them to "dude, just grab a gun off one of your dead mates or else just catch a few bullets idgaf just don't retreat ok".
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Feb 4, 2015 20:23
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Mymla posted:Yeah I dunno, I think I'd rather have 20 good agents than 10 great agents. This is also a TV show.
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Feb 4, 2015 20:33
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Mymla posted:But then again, this is the nation which allegedly sent half their soldiers into combat unarmed and told them to "dude, just grab a gun off one of your dead mates or else just catch a few bullets idgaf just don't retreat ok". Enemy At The Gates strikes again (this never happened).
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Feb 4, 2015 21:06
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I think Agent Thompson just made a perfectly understandable, perfectly reasonable mistake that many people would've made, on all sides of the war. It definitely does give him a bit more depth and was a good writing choice. It definitely doesn't make me like him any more. Like, he's basically a liar who's too scared to tell the truth, goes around belittling everyone else in a display of hypermasculinity to cover up for his own low self-esteem, isn't actually qualified for his position at all, and -- as a bonus -- is in fact useless in a real fight. Interesting, yes. Likable? No. It'd be nice if he died trying to do the right thing by the end of the show though. 
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Feb 4, 2015 21:56
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actually thinking about this Red Room stuff how old is Dottie supposed to be? Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs was released at the tail end of 1937 and it's supposed to be 1946 so she's about 21? I don't know a lot about Black Widow's history so I'm gonna guess that she might be even younger around 18 or 19?
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Feb 4, 2015 22:02
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Daredevil Trailer!
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Feb 4, 2015 23:44
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Happy Sam Sawyer: Is he Tripp's grandfather?
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Feb 5, 2015 02:41
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Well...that certainly looks interesting. Too dark though. Not the subject matter, the lighting itself. Hopefully its not all quite so dingy.
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Feb 5, 2015 03:08
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jivjov posted:Well...that certainly looks interesting. Too dark though. Not the subject matter, the lighting itself. Hopefully its not all quite so dingy. We are viewing the world from Matt's eyes.
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Feb 5, 2015 05:35
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Calling it now. PTSDude is Ward's (grand)father.
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Feb 5, 2015 05:45
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Party Plane Jones posted:Enemy At The Gates strikes again (this never happened). I've tried to looking for evidence for and against this and have found pretty much nothing. What I have read however, is that at that time, the Red army was switching to semi-automatic SVT40 rifle and the Nagant (from WW1) was being phased out. Apparently, a large quantity of SVT40 were lost and they had to go back to the Nagant for a time. It is possible that they did not have enough weapons for everyone, so I find it plausible (tho not confirmed) that this could have happened. But if it did, it was on a small scale. However, logic dictates that some of your guys are going to die, therefore not all of them really need a gun. I would not put it past bureaucrats to come up with this idea. To them, it would be a cost saving initiative or something. Heartless bastard! 
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Feb 5, 2015 07:03
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Bruceski posted:Dangit show, don't call it a one-time-pad cipher if you're going to have someone crack it. The point is that pad ciphers are uncrackable without the code! Call it any other cipher, or make a joke that it wasn't encoded at all but nobody spoke Russian, something! Hell, there's actually a pretty good chance that if the Russians were using a one-time-pad cipher, then they already also have the bad guy's pad, since it would probably be around the bad guy's radio typewriter device. They could have Carter pull out the pad from her desk, and when asked why she had it, "Oh, I found it when we were searching the bad guy's apartment. I thought it looked like one of those one time pads the ladies at Bletchley Park used to produce, but Agent dead guy told me not to worry my pretty little head about it." It's two extra lines, and would have made more sense than what we got. And it would helped reinforce that she has a military intelligence background, compared to all the war heroes surrounding her, who act like cops, but are mostly incompetent when it comes to counter-intelligence. thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 08:21
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Dammit, when I saw John Glover's name in the credits, I was hoping he was going to be the big bad or something. drat he was wasted.
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Feb 5, 2015 08:40
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AbsolutelySane posted:The Red Room stuff was as dark as anything I've seen on TV recently. It actually answers a few questions about Black Widow (why doesn't she have a Russian accent being the biggest one) in a way that makes perfect sense. If you're training espionage agents, eliminating their accents and indoctrinating them into the culture you're trying to spy on (America) is pretty much the way to do it. The subliminal messages and other poo poo is pretty twisted and, I think, they show the effect really well with Dottie. Her lingering in Peggy's room and mimicking her accent lends a little credence to her being hosed up in the head and not being an absolutely perfect spy/killing machine. What they do to those girls obviously scars them. I got the impression, like a method actor, she was trying to "become" Peggy to impersonate her later. Trying to sit like she'd think Peggy would sit, look at the things Peggy'd look at. Get into her mindset, not just mimic her. Dottie is screwed in the head, obviously, but that part was the least crazy thing.
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Feb 5, 2015 10:27
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Little Mac posted:Jesus this show is great. I would watch this instead of SHIELD all the time if I'm being honest and I like SHIELD a lot. Yeah, I've tried to watch Agents of SHIELD and just haven't been able to get into it, but I really dig Agent Carter and I'm a bit sad it's seemingly a one-off, I'd happily watch this as a series.
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Feb 5, 2015 11:20
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, I've tried to watch Agents of SHIELD and just haven't been able to get into it,... It's been said before but I'll say it again because I want people to watch good shows and enjoy them and blah blah blah... AOS is really really good now. Struggle through the first 15 episodes or so and then sit back and enjoy.
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Feb 5, 2015 11:43
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, I've tried to watch Agents of SHIELD and just haven't been able to get into it, but I really dig Agent Carter and I'm a bit sad it's seemingly a one-off, I'd happily watch this as a series. If you can't stand it just skip to "Turn, turn, turn." The whole series improves dramatically at that point.
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Feb 5, 2015 11:55
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Agent carter is so good it makes me want to try Agents of SHIELD again. And I made it seven episodes thru AoS before finding it to be the dullest of dogshit.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:02
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, I've tried to watch Agents of SHIELD and just haven't been able to get into it, but I really dig Agent Carter and I'm a bit sad it's seemingly a one-off, I'd happily watch this as a series. While AOS progressed slower both series have had a very similar arc. AOS started out with "monster/mutant of the week", and Agent Carter had the Bad Babies. But then AOS changed and the protags became the outcasts, hunted by the authorities. Which is what's going to happen with Peggy based on the preview for next week's episode. AOS had one of their own (Ward) turn on them, betraying Sky's trust. Agent Carter has Howard Stark (apparently) turning against the SSR and America , and betraying Peggy's trust.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:11
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No I've watched season 2, I still found it left me mostly cold, though it had good parts (ironically the best of which was the flashback stuff to Agent Carter!). I gave up on season 1 early on, but Winter Soldier was a lot of fun so I watched the last couple of episodes and thought it was setting up an interesting premise for season 2, but that still didn't click for me when I watched it. Agent Carter I found much more enjoyable from the get-go, though it certainly has its faults.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:32
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Dalael posted:I've tried to looking for evidence for and against this and have found pretty much nothing. Largely that's because it didn't happen in WW2. The stories really came out of WW1, where it happened in small pockets But also because you weren't looking hard enough: quote:It is possible that they did not have enough weapons for everyone, so I find it plausible (tho not confirmed) that this could have happened. But if it did, it was on a small scale. The Soviet arms production was immense. That's why there are still cheap Mosins to buy all over the drat place (although they are going up because of import issues right now). And they weren't "heartless bastards" either. A lot of this comes from Cold War nonsense where the West decided "Hey we hate Russia, let's not correct any of these lies or rumors!"
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Feb 5, 2015 15:05
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AbsolutelySane posted:Her lingering in Peggy's room and mimicking her accent lends a little credence to her being hosed up in the head and not being an absolutely perfect spy/killing machine. What they do to those girls obviously scars them.
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Feb 5, 2015 15:55
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Narcissus1916 posted:Agent carter is so good it makes me want to try Agents of SHIELD again. And I made it seven episodes thru AoS before finding it to be the dullest of dogshit. Jerusalem posted:No I've watched season 2, I still found it left me mostly cold, though it had good parts (ironically the best of which was the flashback stuff to Agent Carter!). I gave up on season 1 early on, but Winter Soldier was a lot of fun so I watched the last couple of episodes and thought it was setting up an interesting premise for season 2, but that still didn't click for me when I watched it. Agent Carter I found much more enjoyable from the get-go, though it certainly has its faults. Don't beat yourselves up over it. AoS has some pretty objectively bad flaws in it, with regards to filmmaking and story telling (less so in Season 2 by a lot.) People have thoroughly articulated specifically what makes the show weak in certain areas multiple times. The people "defending" the show, if you could call it that, mostly haven't articulated the opposite, at all, and I have been in this thread from the beginning, as well as followed opinions in other places. For some reason AoS is "guilty pleasure" proof, where people can't admit they like the show despite it being dumb and kind of bad. I like AoS, quite a bit now, thanks to season 2. I've seen every episode the day of airing, but I also have no problem admitting that it was pretty awful during most of season 1 and spends a lot time being dumb in general. But Arrow and Flash are pretty damned dumb too, and I love them. It's TV junk food, so you'll either like it or you won't. So don't worry about not being able to get into it. It's just not for everyone.
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Feb 5, 2015 18:22
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ToastyPotato posted:For some reason AoS is "guilty pleasure" proof, where people can't admit they like the show despite it being dumb and kind of bad. I like AoS, quite a bit now, thanks to season 2. I've seen every episode the day of airing, but I also have no problem admitting that it was pretty awful during most of season 1 and spends a lot time being dumb in general. But Arrow and Flash are pretty damned dumb too, and I love them. It's TV junk food, so you'll either like it or you won't. So don't worry about not being able to get into it. It's just not for everyone. I don't have a problem with people watching the show as a guilty pleasure and thinking it's dumb and bad if they want. But that's not why I watch it - I think it's good and I like it. I like all the characters and I find the story they're telling very engaging. Just because people don't view the show the same way you do doesn't mean they're not admitting what they really think about it.
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Feb 5, 2015 18:25
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First season started with a lot of bland characterization. Near the end it was mostly good. Really the only weak spots that persisted throughout then and Season 2 is May is still too much of a blank slate. She still isn't fleshed out enough from the silent bad-rear end stuff and every time they show her with personality it seems out of place. Not that the actress can't pull it off, just that it isn't consistent or persistent enough. The difficulties from here on out include the courage of the writers to keep Ward a sociopath, handling the changes in Skye, and maintaining Fitz.
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Feb 5, 2015 18:43
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Mymla posted:Never understood how a training program where half the aspirants get killed by the other half is supposed to be a good idea. Just because you got beaten in a fight once when you're 12 doesn't mean you'd make a bad agent. Jesus. It easier to just assume the people killed on screen are perpetual gently caress ups and by story telling rues we are only seeing the most interesting parts of their lives, which is when they get killed as an example.
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Feb 5, 2015 18:45
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So are we supposed to assume the little red-haired girl was a young Natasha? Are they going that route?
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Feb 5, 2015 19:15
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Jamesman posted:So are we supposed to assume the little red-haired girl was a young Natasha? Are they going that route? I don't think Natasha is going to be revealed to be over 70 years old.
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Feb 5, 2015 19:19
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thrawn527 posted:I don't think Natasha is going to be revealed to be over 70 years old. Have they said anything about it anywhere? I know they confirmed that Dottie is not Yelena, but did hey say anything about the girl being Natasha or not? Seemed like a deliberate choice to have a lone red-haired girl there, is all.
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Feb 5, 2015 19:28
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thrawn527 posted:I don't think Natasha is going to be revealed to be over 70 years old. She's roughly that age in the comics. 
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Feb 5, 2015 19:31
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