|
It snows in prairies.  I figure that was a polar region. So Prairie/Tundra planet then?
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 23:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 03:21 |
|
|
I suppose; personally I hope the show eventually returns to the Weird Mesa/Hella Craters planet from the second episode.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2015 02:37
|
|
|
I liked the planet in the first or second season of Clone Wars that looked a lot like Lothal, except for a few giant rear end trees here and there.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2015 05:13
|
|
|
The planet of the Rollie-Lemurs? edit: Also jesus christ, that sky   Urge to watch Clone Wars merely on the merits of its background art design, rising...  
Cross-Section fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Feb 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2015 07:43
|
|
|
Cross-Section posted:I suppose; personally I hope the show eventually returns to the Weird Mesa/Hella Craters planet from the second episode. I don't think you'll have to wait long for that crater city with Tarkin around. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2015 08:02
|
|
|
Cross-Section posted:I suppose; personally I hope the show eventually returns to the Weird Mesa/Hella Craters planet from the second episode. I thought that was also Lothal. Just a different, more remote place away from the capital. Great episode with Tarkin, I hope he takes Kanan to Vader for a quick interview. James Earl Jones is supposed to show up at some point, isn't he? That would allow his cameo to be brief and to keep Vader super terrifying and not a direct antagonist to the Specter crew. Also, when did Tarkin start hating the Jedi so much? In Clone Wars he was a big law and order guy but he didn't seem antagonistic to the Jedi. I could see how he wouldn't like the coup attempt but that doesn't explain his personal distaste (which was also prominently featured in A New Hope).
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 20:03
|
|
|
If I remember correctly (I'll need to do a rewatch one of these days) Tarkin was real sour on the Jedi because he thought they were dumb, and put young jedi in positions of power over him (Anakin and Ahsoka). He basically saw them make a bunch of stupid mistakes, and was real sour grapes about how he was right and they were wrong. There's also the entire lie the Empire is feeding the populace that the galaxy is in a better place now that those evil Jedi are gone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 20:09
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:I thought that was also Lothal. Just a different, more remote place away from the capital. Great episode with Tarkin, I hope he takes Kanan to Vader for a quick interview. James Earl Jones is supposed to show up at some point, isn't he? That would allow his cameo to be brief and to keep Vader super terrifying and not a direct antagonist to the Specter crew. The cameo was retroactively grafted onto the pilot, so I doubt it for now. We might get an explanation for why Tarkin's tone has changed, but I think the idea here is that his belief that they were somewhat archaic and inefficient has over time, aided by how Palpatine spun Order 66 for the Empire at large, into hatred and/or disgust for the Order as a concept. He's basically had fifteen years to be able to think and say whatever he wants without opposition, after all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 20:20
|
|
|
Tarkin has to deal with
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 20:48
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:I thought that was also Lothal. Just a different, more remote place away from the capital. Great episode with Tarkin, I hope he takes Kanan to Vader for a quick interview. James Earl Jones is supposed to show up at some point, isn't he? That would allow his cameo to be brief and to keep Vader super terrifying and not a direct antagonist to the Specter crew. What would Vader do with Kanan other than kill him on the spot? quote:Also, when did Tarkin start hating the Jedi so much? In Clone Wars he was a big law and order guy but he didn't seem antagonistic to the Jedi. I could see how he wouldn't like the coup attempt but that doesn't explain his personal distaste (which was also prominently featured in A New Hope). Tarkin is Lawful Evil, whereas Jedi are Lawful Good. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 21:26
|
|
|
It still blows my mind that Agent Kallus is also MLK (for which dude should be getting an Oscar, honestly).
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 01:03
|
|
|
Actually thinking on it, the show has made something of a point to get some fairly sizable talent for voice actors, possiby helped that they're not having to do huge space battles once every few episodes, as with Clone Wars - even if just for the opening reels. Plus hey, Disney clout + chance to work on Star Wars can be a pretty powerful pull. Oyelowo has even mentioned its the role his kids go nuts over, more than the Oscar-bait stuff.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 01:26
|
|
|
swickles posted:I actually think that point was emphasized when they humanized the clones. Instead of mindless, soulless machine, the Republic literally created life for the sole purpose of fighting a war. Clones are essentially treated no better than droids by the brass when it comes to planning and strategy. Its really only a few jedi who seem to actually give a poo poo about them. ... And then this comes right back around when you realize that droids are just as 'alive' as clones or 'real' people (see: R2, 3PO, Chopper)  edit: Comedy Vuffi Raa option  e2: By my count the Lando episode was the 10th one? I haven't seen the one with Tarkin yet. What the hell... WarLocke fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Feb 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 01:37
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:I thought that was also Lothal. Just a different, more remote place away from the capital. Great episode with Tarkin, I hope he takes Kanan to Vader for a quick interview. James Earl Jones is supposed to show up at some point, isn't he? That would allow his cameo to be brief and to keep Vader super terrifying and not a direct antagonist to the Specter crew. He did not seem to hate the Jedi here. He just saw them as in the way.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 02:05
|
|
|
I disagree, the whole "I knew Jedi" speech reeked of contempt. A little more restrained than, "your sad devotion to that ancient Jedi religion . . ." Speech but similar in tone. Dude hates Jedi/sith like Dawkins hates abrahamic religion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 08:45
|
|
|
Carteret posted:If I remember correctly (I'll need to do a rewatch one of these days) Tarkin was real sour on the Jedi because he thought they were dumb, and put young jedi in positions of power over him (Anakin and Ahsoka). He basically saw them make a bunch of stupid mistakes, and was real sour grapes about how he was right and they were wrong. Yeah, Tarkin doesn''t like the Jedi during the Clone Wars because he feelstheir principles kept them from going far enough in military engagements. Anakin agrees with him, and they start a little bromance over it. Which I guess is one part of why Vader seems relatively cool with getting bossed around by him in A New Hope (the other part is that he has no choice because Tarkin is another one of Palpatine's favorites).
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2015 06:51
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:Yeah, Tarkin doesn''t like the Jedi during the Clone Wars because he feelstheir principles kept them from going far enough in military engagements. Anakin agrees with him, and they start a little bromance over it. Which I guess is one part of why Vader seems relatively cool with getting bossed around by him in A New Hope (the other part is that he has no choice because Tarkin is another one of Palpatine's favorites). Do grand moffs/admirals outrank Vader?
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2015 22:21
|
|
|
FetusSlapper posted:Do grand moffs/admirals outrank Vader? I'm pretty sure Vader is outside the command structure. As Palpatine's apprentice, he's got the Emperor's ear as much as Tarkin, so it's probably equal footing between them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2015 22:24
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:I'm pretty sure Vader is outside the command structure. As Palpatine's apprentice, he's got the Emperor's ear as much as Tarkin, so it's probably equal footing between them. Vader does outrank Tarkin as he is supreme commander of all Imperial forces, which is why he rocks the biggest command ship ever and has free reign to hunt down Han Solo for weeks on end instead of doing something productive. However, the Death Star was Tarkin's command and Vader and Tarkin have a good deal of respect for one another, so Vader respects his command until he ignores the rebel threat to the death star and goes out and fucks up some X-Wings on his own accord.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2015 23:56
|
|
|
FetusSlapper posted:Do grand moffs/admirals outrank Vader? The_Doctor posted:I'm pretty sure Vader is outside the command structure. As Palpatine's apprentice, he's got the Emperor's ear as much as Tarkin, so it's probably equal footing between them. MrJacobs posted:Vader does outrank Tarkin as he is supreme commander of all Imperial forces, which is why he rocks the biggest command ship ever and has free reign to hunt down Han Solo for weeks on end instead of doing something productive. However, the Death Star was Tarkin's command and Vader and Tarkin have a good deal of respect for one another, so Vader respects his command until he ignores the rebel threat to the death star and goes out and fucks up some X-Wings on his own accord. The upper echelons of Imperial command structure were very vague because Palpatine wanted it like that. The uncertainty of who reports to whom and how people are ranked in relation to each other sowed a lot of fear and doubt among the leadership and made it a lot easier for him to control and manipulate people. For example, Grand Moffs were several steps down on the formal command structure, BUT they reported directly to the Emperor, which gave them a ton of influence and leverage. In Vader and Tarkin's case though, they just have a lot of history together and respect each other. This is partly because they see eye to eye on most things and also because they are both favored by Palpatine.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 00:11
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:The upper echelons of Imperial command structure were very vague because Palpatine wanted it like that. The uncertainty of who reports to whom and how people are ranked in relation to each other sowed a lot of fear and doubt among the leadership and made it a lot easier for him to control and manipulate people. That seems like it would just create constant problems about who people should be sending their TPS reports to. "Captain! I need to requisition 250 blaster rifles to B company, I'll send a request in to the master at arms?" "Well actually the master at arms is responsible for command of the star destroyer. Also you outrank me Lieutenant . Also Moff is actually just a code word for janitor but nobody is willing to call anyone on it because the Emperor forgot who was supposed to be reporting to him and everyone just got bumped up the food chain so nobody argued." "Why don't we just see who is getting paid more Captain, that would make it pretty obvious who is in charge?" "Shutup sir." kingcom fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Feb 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 00:22
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:It still blows my mind that Agent Kallus is also MLK (for which dude should be getting an Oscar, honestly). And so it has also blown mine!
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 00:34
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:Also, when did Tarkin start hating the Jedi so much? In Clone Wars he was a big law and order guy but he didn't seem antagonistic to the Jedi. I could see how he wouldn't like the coup attempt but that doesn't explain his personal distaste (which was also prominently featured in A New Hope).
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 01:22
|
|
|
Ignoring terrible EU information: Vader changes a fair bit between A New Hope and Empire, and that's probably due to the haphazard way that Lucas put the story to script. The Vader of ANH acts subordinately - at the start he's on a mission to intercept Leia for Tarquin, he suggests the plan of putting the tracking device on the Falcon, during the battle at Yavin he wanders the corridors a bit before deciding to help out. He chocks the Imperial Officer in the meeting but lets go when Tarquin snaps at him, and crucially the Officer felt able to call Vader sad and pathetic to his face in the first place. When Leia is presented to Tarquin she calls Vader his lapdog and nothing is said of it. When Vader tells Tarquin that Obi Wan is around they're chatting as equals and Tarquin calls Vader his old friend, but there's the sense that Tarquin has the final call. The Vader of Empire is a very different creature - most obviously he acts with a total lack of restraint, executing subordinates (who are all petrified of him), ignoring their advice, and is the absolute master of every scene he is in (except for the last). It's best not to try to reconcile the two with some fan-wank about how Tarquin is so special that Vader is totally different around him - the films just treat Vader differently and that's Star Wars for you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 01:22
|
|
|
I always just figured it was the nature of the assignment at the time. In the original film, Vader is there to help ensure Palpatine's pet project, which he's spent the last two decades trying to get together, actually gets going. So for that time, he's told to do what Tarkin says, since he's the one overseeing the outer rim and otherwise is the one keeping things on track as it is. Once the DS goes boom and Tarkin with it, then Vader is given a new mission - namely, hunt the Rebels full hog - for which he is given total command.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 08:39
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:The upper echelons of Imperial command structure were very vague because Palpatine wanted it like that. The uncertainty of who reports to whom and how people are ranked in relation to each other sowed a lot of fear and doubt among the leadership and made it a lot easier for him to control and manipulate people. It's how Hitler did it (and others like him). Essentially it's a system of natural selection of leadership, where the most cunning and ruthless rise to the top. It's also a system that ensures atrocities, because the orders are vague and people will over perform (=kill lots of innocent people) to avoid being punished by being demoted, send to some dangerous region or straight out executed for cowardliness. IS probably functions in much the same way. Eventually these power systems always collapse relatively quickly, although the absolute leaders usually promote some semi-divine status that will ensure that whoever kills him will not be accepted as the new leader, which usually results in a lot of flawed assassination attempts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 10:21
|
|
|
Piriwi posted:It's how Hitler did it (and others like him). Essentially it's a system of natural selection of leadership, where the most cunning and ruthless rise to the top. It's also a system that ensures atrocities, because the orders are vague and people will over perform (=kill lots of innocent people) to avoid being punished by being demoted, send to some dangerous region or straight out executed for cowardliness. IS probably functions in much the same way. Eventually these power systems always collapse relatively quickly, although the absolute leaders usually promote some semi-divine status that will ensure that whoever kills him will not be accepted as the new leader, which usually results in a lot of flawed assassination attempts. Well the empire only lasted 20 years which is ultimately a pretty tiny footnote in history so the whole thing imploding on itself checks out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 10:56
|
|
|
kingcom posted:Well the empire only lasted 20 years which is ultimately a pretty tiny footnote in history so the whole thing imploding on itself checks out. 23 years but yeah. I remember in a book. Were an imperial officer who had not heard that the Empire was overthrown pretty much said "The Republic lasted millennia, how could the Empire fall apart in a few decades?"
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 11:26
|
|
|
kingcom posted:Well the empire only lasted 20 years which is ultimately a pretty tiny footnote in history so the whole thing imploding on itself checks out. Kind of, except if the rumors on the new trilogy are to be believed. In Episode 7 The Empire has managed to survive 30 years since the Battle of Endor, making it at least 50 years old and still trucking.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 11:26
|
|
|
Galactic Empire was thirty years, Imperial Remnant added to it. I'm assuming the new movie is the latter.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 11:32
|
|
|
Shadoer posted:Kind of, except if the rumors on the new trilogy are to be believed. In Episode 7 Until it comes out its currently just over 20 years. I'm honestly surprised when the Emperor was killed everyone in the military didnt just go to their lockers and pull out their republic uniforms before going and declaring independence. I guess nobody was thinking it was going to cause enough confusing when it mattered. Its still a very small time for the vastness of the Republic's lifespan.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 11:38
|
|
|
Establishment 19 BBY Fragmentation 4 ABY Final dissolution 11 ABY Reorganized into Imperial Remnant 19 ABY
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 11:43
|
|
|
Rocksicles posted:Establishment 19 BBY The EU is no longer canon. gg close. Seriously though, current state of the Star Wars universe the empire was a pretty short lived thing. Even adding all that extra time its going up against the republic which stood for a 1000 generations. Still just a tiny insignificant footnote. kingcom fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Feb 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 12:05
|
|
|
edit: gently caress it i don't care enough. This show rules, star wars rules, han shot first and ewoks are gay. Rocksicles fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Feb 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 12:11
|
|
|
Rocksicles posted:Including Clone Wars? because it's part of the EU under that stupid rule. Current canon is movies, clone wars and rebels cartoons I think?
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 12:12
|
|
|
kingcom posted:The EU is no longer canon. gg close. I guess that's true. Heck, even in the EU since the end of the "Old Republic" period, the Jedi have largely dominated the galaxy and the Sith (all two of them) had to lurk in the shadows, scrapping by on whatever they could scrap together. Really the age of Sith and Dark Side domination also is just a blip in an overall "light side Jedi" dominated galaxy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 12:15
|
|
|
Shadoer posted:I guess that's true. Heck, even in the EU since the end of the "Old Republic" period, the Jedi have largely dominated the galaxy and the Sith (all two of them) had to lurk in the shadows, scrapping by on whatever they could scrap together. Really the age of Sith and Dark Side domination also is just a blip in an overall "light side Jedi" dominated galaxy. Im not super familiar with the EU but from my understanding of it is that the Sith and Jedi were constantly flipping who had control over the galaxy, the Old Republic games had people flipping control over and over along with the Legacy stuff having the jedi start to collapse right as they had finished putting their order back together again. Seems like the big thing was that the movie jedi had been around much longer than anyone else had lasted and with the empire collapsing so quickly this just seems to encourage the idea the Old Sheevy was pretty bad at being a sith lord. EDIT: Maybe the whole rule of two thing was actually a really great way to cripple yourself by limiting your numbers. Actually whats up with that. Does the EU try and pull a technicality with all its secret apprentices and just have them not being real sith or? kingcom fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Feb 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 12:23
|
|
|
kingcom posted:Im not super familiar with the EU but from my understanding of it is that the Sith and Jedi were constantly flipping who had control over the galaxy, the Old Republic games had people flipping control over and over along with the Legacy stuff having the jedi start to collapse right as they had finished putting their order back together again. Seems like the big thing was that the movie jedi had been around much longer than anyone else had lasted and with the empire collapsing so quickly this just seems to encourage the idea the Old Sheevy was pretty bad at being a sith lord. Not really, in fact only in the time of Palpatines Empire did the Sith actually control the galaxy. In the EU the Sith would manage to carve out separate empires, and in at least one game they did manage to wipe out the Jedi Order (Knights of the Old Republic 2) but they really never managed to control more than like a 3rd of the galaxy before infighting and the good guys drove them back and defeated them. The whole "Rule of 2" came as a way to try and solve the Sith problem of infighting. So long as there's only two Sith at any time, the battle for power is just going to be between Master and Apprentice. Also the two sith will keep all the cool dark side secrets to themselves and hold power over their own force sensitive minions without worrying that they'll manage to become strong enough to challenge them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 12:33
|
|
|
The big thing with Palpatine's Empire, at least by the EU (and vaguely alluded to in the current canon) was that it was supposed to be the first time that the Sith really had a total victory over the Jedi, rather than a relatively even struggle. Every time prior, the Jedi had maybe been on the back foot sometimes, but either the Republic still stood, or the Jedi did, and so the Sith's conquest eventually went on until their own self-serving nature served their destruction. Bane's idea was that by having two of them, working in secret to manipulate the galaxy and grow ever more powerful due to the regulated contest between them, they could do what no other Sith before them had succeeded in... Edit: Ninja'd kingcom posted:EDIT: Maybe the whole rule of two thing was actually a really great way to cripple yourself by limiting your numbers. Actually whats up with that. Does the EU try and pull a technicality with all its secret apprentices and just have them not being real sith or? But yes, this was the excuse. Unfortunately, its never really defined too well what actually makes a Sith that much different from a generic dark side user. So it mostly seems like Palpatine was just trying to get away with something by not admitting to what it was (like any good politician), even if it really, really went against the entire point of Bane's idea. Could be seen as why Palpatine was able to make the most successful strike against the Jedi, but couldn't then make it last - he wasn't committed to the triumph of the Sith, only himself. Hell, even in the prequel era he went through three different apprentices, and at least one of them had near-apprentices of their own. This incidentally raises the question of what the Inquisitor's deal is, since its still that whole 'not REALLY a Sith' idea, but the writing crew seems to have more awareness of the fact that should, in theory, mean something. Plus the Tarkin novel indicates Palpy may have had other, more ethereal plans at work, so its possible we may see more of what exactly makes a Sith, well, a Sith, in future.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 12:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 03:21 |
|
|
Astro Nut posted:This incidentally raises the question of what the Inquisitor's deal is, since its still that whole 'not REALLY a Sith' idea, but the writing crew seems to have more awareness of the fact that should, in theory, mean something. Plus the Tarkin novel indicates Palpy may have had other, more ethereal plans at work, so its possible we may see more of what exactly makes a Sith, well, a Sith, in future. Yeah thats mostly why I was asking. Having Inquisitors being trained to kill jedi but not really how to deal with the force seems extremely important if your going to pull something like this off but i've never heard a proper explanation of the power structure. I choose to believe it works the same way as the Inquisition in 40k where the regular mooks are just barely functional idiots that generally get influence and success thanks to their reputation rather than any actual capabilities they possess. Seems like the Inquisitor was able to take down Kanan mostly through psychology and hitting him when he was out of himself emotionally and out of practice. The whole Inquisitors setup is more interesting to me. I'd love to read about an Inquisitor and his team of agents going out and hunting down any reported sightings of force users and figuring out if they can recruit or need to kill them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 12:51
|
|