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Sucrose posted:No, you're right, economically at least. American imports of British goods actually surpassed what they had been in the colonial period within like 10 years of the war ending. Which really shouldn't be surprising, considering how rapidly the population was growing, but it flew in the face of previous economic theory that said the trade should gradually die off as the US produced its own goods. There's evidence that independence did somewhat hurt the British Caribbean colonies for a while, mostly because the British insisted on slapping a few tariffs on the triangular trade between them and the now-independent US, but the sugar islands were inevitably decreasing in importance anyway due to competition, and anyway, obviously anything that reduced the profitability of Caribbean sugar production was ultimately A Good Thing for humanity. I would argue that delays would have been significant. If we claim that no Loisiana stymie western expansion for 20ish years, one could well end up with Russians meeting the Mexicans in California, or the British cutting off western expansion.
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Feb 7, 2015 22:42
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Have you ever wondered what early modern German men found sexy in early modern German women? Archival research is here to answer this question: in 1658, the official in charge of the sheep pens in Effringen, Baden-Wurttemberg, was recorded as saying that he would like to sleep with the shepherd's wife "because she was so cute and strong" ("Sie seye so hipsch vnd starkh Er möchte bey Ihren schlaffen"). Both men and women of this social class would have spent their lives doing heavy physical work.
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Feb 8, 2015 00:34
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So, translated, they liked their women rather masculine?
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Feb 8, 2015 00:58
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Spacewolf posted:So, translated, they liked their women rather masculine? Edit: Also, hair seems to have been a huge deal, considering that a lot of the time the mounds of braids that women wear are actually made of false hair. In the 16th century it was available in lots of colors too, like pink or green. Dunno about the 17th. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Feb 8, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 01:08
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HEY GAL posted:Not at all--he just appreciates that she's got the capacity to be good at what they do. If the difference between prospering and starving next year is carried on your back, you'll impress the people you know if you're up to the job. One also believed (with justification iirc) that strong women were less likely to die in childbirth.
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Feb 8, 2015 02:07
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HEY GAL posted:Edit: Also, hair seems to have been a huge deal, considering that a lot of the time the mounds of braids that women wear are actually made of false hair. In the 16th century it was available in lots of colors too, like pink or green. Dunno about the 17th. If you want to get people to learn more about this period, just tell them about the historically accurate anime hair.
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Feb 8, 2015 02:09
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Mightypeon posted:I would argue that delays would have been significant. If we claim that no Loisiana stymie western expansion for 20ish years, one could well end up with Russians meeting the Mexicans in California, or the British cutting off western expansion. I think the US would have gone to war with France over Lousiana Territory by 1830 if France wouldn't sell, and by 1830 in real life there hadn't been much American settlement beyond the Mississsippi yet, so the delay wouldn't mean much. But now I've veered into guessing games rather than actual history. HEY GAL posted:Not at all--he just appreciates that she's got the capacity to be good at what they do. If the difference between prospering and starving next year is carried on your back, you'll impress the people you know if you're up to the job. I would like to see that in a period piece movie set in the 16th century. Nobody would believe it.
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Feb 8, 2015 02:35
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my dad posted:If you want to get people to learn more about this period, just tell them about the historically accurate anime hair. Sucrose posted:I would like to see that in a period piece movie set in the 16th century. Nobody would believe it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91hysO_suRo
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Feb 8, 2015 02:52
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HEY GAL posted:Have you ever wondered what early modern German men found sexy in early modern German women? Archival research is here to answer this question: in 1658, the official in charge of the sheep pens in Effringen, Baden-Wurttemberg, was recorded as saying that he would like to sleep with the shepherd's wife "because she was so cute and strong" ("Sie seye so hipsch vnd starkh Er möchte bey Ihren schlaffen"). Both men and women of this social class would have spent their lives doing heavy physical work. Cute as a button and can choke a ram if need be, what's not to like? And punks not dead, too.
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Feb 8, 2015 03:47
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Sucrose posted:I think the US would have gone to war with France over Lousiana Territory by 1830 if France wouldn't sell, and by 1830 in real life there hadn't been much American settlement beyond the Mississsippi yet, so the delay wouldn't mean much. In this alt-history, who wins the Napoleonic wars? If the Brits do, than the US gets to pick it off of Spain assuming that they just don't seize it during the war of 1812.
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Feb 8, 2015 04:05
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sullat posted:In this alt-history, who wins the Napoleonic wars? If the Brits do, than the US gets to pick it off of Spain assuming that they just don't seize it during the war of 1812. Just assuming that France, for whatever reason, doesn't want to sell Louisiana. HEY GAL posted:I learned it from this video, which also shows the creation of a fine set of 16th century men's clothes step-by-step. My, the codpieces. Sucrose fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Feb 8, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 04:39
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Sucrose posted:My, the codpieces.
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Feb 8, 2015 04:46
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Sucrose posted:Just assuming that France, for whatever reason, doesn't want to sell Louisiana. I guess what I was trying to get at was that France had taken Louisiana away from Spain and probably would have been forced to give it back at the end of the war, unless Britain had simply taken it (which was one of the motivations for Napoleon selling it). Like buying a bicycle from a guy lurking around the train station, you don't ask too many questions, after all, it's your lucky day to get a cheap bike.
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Feb 8, 2015 04:53
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sullat posted:I guess what I was trying to get at was that France had taken Louisiana away from Spain and probably would have been forced to give it back at the end of the war, unless Britain had simply taken it (which was one of the motivations for Napoleon selling it). Like buying a bicycle from a guy lurking around the train station, you don't ask too many questions, after all, it's your lucky day to get a cheap bike. Oh yeah. Point is, the US would have eventually gone to war over Louisiana Territory, regardless of which country owned it.
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Feb 8, 2015 05:02
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HEY GAL posted:I think we're all pretty sure what early modern German women found sexy in early modern German men. Yeah: Money
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Feb 8, 2015 07:29
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Kaal posted:Yeah: Money Also: Titles. Don't want none if he ain't a Von.
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Feb 8, 2015 07:35
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Kaal posted:Yeah: Money
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Feb 8, 2015 07:36
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That's some rule 34 poo poo right there.
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Feb 8, 2015 08:35
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You know, I seem to recall that in these old texts, the word stark could also mean that somebody is chubby. A classical case of "the rear end was fat"
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Feb 8, 2015 08:42
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FAUXTON posted:That's some rule 34 poo poo right there.
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Feb 8, 2015 08:55
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HEY GAL posted:Just about every Landsknecht-related art showcases rear end. Well they gotta have income in peacetime.
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Feb 8, 2015 11:06
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Chamale posted:The seminal alien invasion novel, War of the Worlds, specifically mentions the genocide of Tasmanians as an allegory for the invasion. But unlike the real invasions by Europeans, the invaders are the ones destroyed by foreign diseases. I know I'm a bit late to the party here, but I couldn't leave that spoiler uncommented. We also brought some nasty diseases back to Europe, like Syphilis. Syphilis struck first, even: The first known cases of Syphilis were among Columbus' crew and the new disease spread like wildfire through Europe. So in a way, the real world mirrors the War of the Worlds. The invaders just died too fast to bring our diseases back home to Mars. 
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Feb 8, 2015 11:51
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HEY GAL posted:I learned it from this video, which also shows the creation of a fine set of 16th century men's clothes step-by-step. That everything was brown and grey is the worst history trope
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Feb 8, 2015 11:52
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Nenonen posted:Japan should have sent a number of cargo ships ladden with explosives through the Panama Canal destined to commit a kamikaze attack against its locks and other merchant vessels on Pearl Harbor day. The only way for Japan to win a war against the USA was to convince America that a prolonged fight wasn't worth it- it would be easier to negotiate, cut a deal, agree to neutralize the Philippines and help resolve the Sino-Japanese War as a neutral arbitrator in exchange for the Japanese retreating from their colonial conquests, etc. than to fight. The high command had the well-known decisive battle approach, Yamamoto believed that he could achieve this via doing enough damage to the Pacific Fleet, etc. but nobody on the Japanese side was under any illusions about what a prolonged war meant (and a substantial number of civilians figured that they were doomed as soon as they got over the rush from finally fighting a colonial power instead of murdering fellow Asians). So from this perspective, all it would do, at best, is delay the amount of time before a few dozen carriers and battleships steamrollered the Combined Fleet. Of course, it's entirely likely that this was impossible in the first place given the shifts in American attitudes since 1905, and the failures of the Japanese government during 1940 and 1941 diplomatically made it even less likely that the US would believe the Japanese leadership was arguing in good faith, before we consider the complete failure of Pearl Harbor.
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Feb 8, 2015 16:46
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Effectronica posted:The only way for Japan to win a war against the USA was to convince America that a prolonged fight wasn't worth it- it would be easier to negotiate, cut a deal, agree to neutralize the Philippines and help resolve the Sino-Japanese War as a neutral arbitrator in exchange for the Japanese retreating from their colonial conquests, etc. than to fight. The high command had the well-known decisive battle approach, Yamamoto believed that he could achieve this via doing enough damage to the Pacific Fleet, etc. but nobody on the Japanese side was under any illusions about what a prolonged war meant (and a substantial number of civilians figured that they were doomed as soon as they got over the rush from finally fighting a colonial power instead of murdering fellow Asians). So from this perspective, all it would do, at best, is delay the amount of time before a few dozen carriers and battleships steamrollered the Combined Fleet. In that case, wouldn't a surprise attack like Pearl Harbor or a terrorist attack like that Panama Canal plan Nenonen proposed really be the worst possible thing to do? I.e. if you want to wage a 'traditional' war, which is what the decisive battle followed by treaty negotiations really is, shouldn't you try to adhere to the customs like the timely declaration of war as much as possible? Do we know if anyone e.g. Yamamoto considered this angle?
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Feb 8, 2015 17:21
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Yamamoto specifically wanted the declaration of war delivered right before the attack, but it turns out that you can't always arrange such things with that level of precision.
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Feb 8, 2015 17:36
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scissorman posted:In that case, wouldn't a surprise attack like Pearl Harbor or a terrorist attack like that Panama Canal plan Nenonen proposed really be the worst possible thing to do? Yamamoto was convinced that he understood the American public much better than his superiors, and that they would be so disheartened at the devastation of their battleships that they would be unwilling to fight. Zorak of Michigan posted:Yamamoto specifically wanted the declaration of war delivered right before the attack, but it turns out that you can't always arrange such things with that level of precision. Well, no, the fourteen-part message did not declare war on the USA, and frankly it's unlikely that declaring war just thirty minutes before the attack would be meaningful.
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Feb 8, 2015 17:39
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I met an 92 year old man at the gyms sauna today. I stuck up a conversation because he was wearing real short little UDT shorts. He told me he wasnt in UDT, but his son did like 16 years in them. He told me he was in the navy during WW2, on a ship (no subs, he said they scare him) and participated in D-Day, Battle of the Atlantic, Battle of the Phillipines, and another major Pacific conflict, I want to say Okinawa. Is this possible? Did the Navy switch assets from one theater to another im such a way this would be feasible? He knew a bunch of navy poo poo and had an Annapolis class ring, but also said his ship was off the coast of Japan, and heard a boom and they later found out it was the bomb.... so idk
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Feb 8, 2015 17:53
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It seems plausible enough. Ships were switched between theaters, and US ships got fairly close to the coast of Japan towards the end.
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Feb 8, 2015 17:58
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Waroduce posted:He knew a bunch of navy poo poo and had an Annapolis class ring, but also said his ship was off the coast of Japan, and heard a boom and they later found out it was the bomb.... so idk It's possible that they heard the explosion of Nagasaki (the explosion is said to have been heard 15 miles away), though it is perhaps more probable that he simply saw the explosion (which was seen hundreds of miles away) and is slightly exaggerating it. If his story is true, I'd expect that his ship would have fought across the Atlantic, supported the Normandy invasion, and then switched theatres and then acted in a supporting/reinforcing role on its way past the Philippines and ultimately to Japan. There's time for this to happen, if only just, and I think that I'd prefer to believe that it was the case than accuse a 92-year-old guy of an elaborate lie. Kaal fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Feb 8, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 18:13
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HEY GAL posted:Just about every Landsknecht-related art showcases rear end. Napoleonic plates really like to put the emphasis on the groin area of the breeches as well.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:36
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SeanBeansShako posted:Napoleonic plates really like to put the emphasis on the groin area of the breeches as well. It was the era of the tight trou.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:43
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Just from looking at the list of allied ships on D-Day, if he served on the Nevada it'd cover everything but the Philippines.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:47
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It's not that implausible. My grandfather's ship was a DE that did convoy escort from 43-44, got converted in the US into an APD, and was in San Diego when the war ended. Lots of ships got transferred over from time to time as needed, and sailors themselves could be transferred to different ships as necessary. Without any other reason to doubt his story I'd certainly believe him.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:04
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Disinterested posted:It was the era of the tight trou. Hey baby, check out THIS Greecian male body ideal!
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Feb 8, 2015 20:16
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Kaal posted:It's possible that they heard the explosion of Nagasaki (the explosion is said to have been heard 15 miles away), though it is perhaps more probable that he simply saw the explosion (which was seen hundreds of miles away) and is slightly exaggerating it. If his story is true, I'd expect that his ship would have fought across the Atlantic, supported the Normandy invasion, and then switched theatres and then acted in a supporting/reinforcing role on its way past the Philippines and ultimately to Japan. There's time for this to happen, if only just, and I think that I'd prefer to believe that it was the case than accuse a 92-year-old guy of an elaborate lie. There's nothing implausile about his story since the Navy rotated major warships through both theaters throughout the war. Texas shelled Normandy and Iwo Jima, and North Carolina and Wasp did duty in the Atlantic and Mediterranean alongside the Royal Navy before going to the South Pacific. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Feb 8, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 21:27
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While looking for more on false braids, I found this picture: A false-braid maker with some of his wares, from the Hausbuch der Landauerschen Zwölfbrüderstiftung. You can see purple, sea green, and red!  And since this is from the 17th century, now I know they had lots of colors as well as the 16th.The Landauersche Zwölfbrüderstiftung was an old-age home/religious order. The top inscription reads "In the year 1654, on the 1st of June, Wolff Rummel, by trade a braid-maker, was taken into the Zwölf brü. house in his 63rd year." The bottom one, in a different hand, says "In 1663, on the 11th of January, Rummel, painted here, came to his end prematurely, dying blessedly in the Lord, and on the 12th huius he was buried beneath the stone of this order." HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Feb 9, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 23:45
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Dear god... 16th century Cybergoths 
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Feb 9, 2015 12:40
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Arquinsiel posted:Dear god... 16th century Cybergoths I'd watch the poo poo out of that B-movie. Gas masks and hats with absurdly huge feathers on them! Bullet belts and slashed doublets!
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Feb 9, 2015 14:13
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Since I'm really stoked about the upcoming premiere for 9th of April, let's talk about the Operation Weserübung, the invasion of Denmark! It's been a while, but if I remember correctly, we gave good officers leave in Sweden, and refused to take defensive positions, because the government didn't want to provoke Germany or give them any excuses  The first to meet the Germans were a bicycle/motorcycle platoon, who actually put a dent in the invasion before leaving.. And then Denmark was crushed flat like a pancake. Our exceedingly quick capitulation after 6 hours stands as the record for shortest military operation during the war  Oh well, at least our resistance tore them a new rear end in a top hat. Trailer for 9th of April: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmcttiebIN0
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Feb 9, 2015 16:17
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