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VagueRant posted:What's the general take on the Hogfather TV adaptation? I just got through the audiobook and have been looking into it a little. (I always thought David Jason was playing Rincewind on TV. Albert makes a lot more sense!)
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Feb 10, 2015 03:43
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Nihilarian posted:I liked it, but then I've never read the book. Read the book. Seriously.
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Feb 10, 2015 14:07
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VagueRant posted:What's the general take on the Hogfather TV adaptation? I just got through the audiobook and have been looking into it a little. (I always thought David Jason was playing Rincewind on TV. Albert makes a lot more sense!) I really loved it. It's a much lower budget film than the other ones, but it's charming and has its own pace.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:40
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VagueRant posted:What's the general take on the Hogfather TV adaptation? I just got through the audiobook and have been looking into it a little. (I always thought David Jason was playing Rincewind on TV. Albert makes a lot more sense!) Maybe English people have different standards, but speaking as an American it was unbearably trashy even before you factor in the cut-rate Johnny Depp-Wonka performance for Teatime.
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Feb 10, 2015 22:56
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I thought the Hogfather was pretty good and I'd even go so far to say it's the only TV adaptation worth watching. Going Postal was poo poo as a TV adaptation if I'm honest but it was always going to be, because the interesting thing about Moist is the difference between his inner monologue and what his facial expressions and his words demonstrate. They made him look openly nervous and stuff in the TV adaptation but I think that it takes away from the character.
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Feb 11, 2015 14:46
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The only bit that threw me off with the TV Adaptation of Going Postal that threw me was it completely went against how I imagined the Golems to look. I think even the books directly come out and say that they look the way they do, more human, but for some reason I always imagined them as looking more rocky, bit like an earth elemental. Humanoid rather than human. Found this online after a quick google, thought it was pretty neat!  Jedit posted:Not more powerful, more talented. Nanny says it to Agnes in Lords and Ladies: that she's a naturally talented witch and Granny isn't, but Granny is a stronger witch because she works what little talent she has a lot harder. Flipswitch fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 15:10
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Flipswitch posted:The only bit that threw me off with the TV Adaptation of Going Postal that threw me was it completely went against how I imagined the Golems to look. I think even the books directly come out and say that they look the way they do, more human, but for some reason I always imagined them as looking more rocky, bit like an earth elemental. Humanoid rather than human.
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Feb 11, 2015 15:21
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Nihilarian posted:I imagined them as being smaller and slimmer but still human shaped. The really weird thing for me was them looking identical to one another, right down to the damage. I imagined most of them to basically look like this:  With the older they are the less well sculpted they are because they've been fixed so many times over their life time. That's why in feet of clay the King Golem is perfectly sculpted in human form with a handsome human face. He stood out as weird as the others didn't actually look human, just vaguely human shaped.
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Feb 11, 2015 16:10
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You can argue that Nanny is the more powerful witch because she can utilize Granny and Granny is not as good at doing the reverse as she thinks she is. You shouldn't argue that where Granny can hear you, though.
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Feb 11, 2015 16:14
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Feet of Clay makes me tear up every time I reread it. WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN.
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Feb 11, 2015 16:27
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I got this golem figurine from my sister and now I just picture all the Disworld golems looking like it:
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Feb 11, 2015 17:13
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Feet of Clay makes me tear up every time I reread it. That line is why the title of the book was changed to Feet of Clay.
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Feb 11, 2015 17:36
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Oxxidation posted:Maybe English people have different standards, but speaking as an American it was unbearably trashy even before you factor in the cut-rate Johnny Depp-Wonka performance for Teatime. I liked it, but they should have cut some of the subplots and made it an actual movie instead of a 3,5-hour long (total) two-parter. Right now it feels like they really wanted to cram everything from the book in, but that rarely works on screen.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:51
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Rand Brittain posted:You can argue that Nanny is the more powerful witch because she can utilize Granny and Granny is not as good at doing the reverse as she thinks she is. I think part of it as well is that most witches determine how powerful and talented you are by how much magic you don't do. So like Granny never really makes potions she gives people coloured water and tells them they will feel better after drinking this potion. She uses headology and basically makes people second guess what her reaction will be when (not if!) she finds out. By this standard Nanny Ogg is far more talented as she basically never does any magic. She relies on her army sized family and her good humour to get poo poo done. There's several times where both Granny and Nanny figure the same thing out at the same time where Granny has used magic and Nanny has just forced Our Shawn to tell her or something. I know Granny wonders at one point if Nanny has some sort of magic that let's her be so likeable, but I don't think it is which is why she's so talented. The difference is sometimes you need a big show down between Witches and some sort of magical enemy and that's where Granny wins because she's magically more capable than Nanny, but since Nanny knows this and she's often there nudging Granny towards solving the problem... I think whoever mentioned talent vs power is right. Granny Weatherwax is the most powerful witch but maybe not the most talented.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:45
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John Dough posted:I liked it, but they should have cut some of the subplots and made it an actual movie instead of a 3,5-hour long (total) two-parter. Right now it feels like they really wanted to cram everything from the book in, but that rarely works on screen. So far as I recall, the whole thing focuses on the assassination and Death as the Hogfather. I don't know what else you could cut, unless you wanted to completely eliminate Susan.
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Feb 12, 2015 13:19
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The pacing of the multiple endings is a mess. It didn't work amazingly in the book, and it's even worse in the tv version.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:14
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Granny ruminates on it in a few of the books, and what it essentially boils down to is that Esme is a stronger witch, but Nanny is a better witch. To both of them the core of witchcraft is helping other people, and Nanny's just... better at it. She improves people's lives in a million little ways that Granny just can't manage because she's too bitter, spiteful and focused to ever actually sit down and be people. Granny is the witch you call when there's at wolf at the door, while Nanny is the witch you call for literally anything else. In fact, you didn't even have to call her, because she's already dropped by for a cup and to ask how the kids are doing, and say a few kind words about your dear father, rest his soul, and drop off a tincture for cousin Ramble's bad leg.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:32
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Isn't there also a bit of a note at some point that Nanny was naturally a witch and had more innate magical power, whereas Esme didn't really have any but managed to become an incredibly powerful witch through pure force of will?
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Feb 12, 2015 15:34
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MikeJF posted:Isn't there also a bit of a note at some point that Nanny was naturally a witch and had more innate magical power, whereas Esme didn't really have any but managed to become an incredibly powerful witch through pure force of will? I don't think magical power factored into that line. Is was just that Nanny was naturally suited to being a witch; she had a talent for it and, being an easy going sort of dame, she rolled with it. Esme decided she was going to be a witch, and heaven help anyone who got in her way. Magical aptitude doesn't have a lot to do with someone's capability at witchcraft on the Discworld. Petulia Gristle is one of the best witches of her generation, specifically because she's good with pigs, because the world doesn't need saving every day, but someone's always got a sick pig. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 15:40
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I think that contrast is why Nanny and Granny work so well together. Nanny will help you because she likes you. Her bedside manner is amazing. You want Nanny to stop by, unless you're married to her sons. Granny will help you whether you want the help or not, in the most efficient way possible, and leave you wondering if you might have been better off if she never stopped by in the first place.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:38
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Masquerade needs more love because it really shows the differences between Nanny and Granny. They both solve the mystery, but do it independently of each other through different methods and with a different solution for those they help, but get to the same end. It really serves as a nice contrast in methods and how they practice witching, but also shows how they compliment each other. Though speaking of styles, I'll never get tired of the fact that despite being described as meek and soppy, Magrat's style is overwhelming brute force against the target, whether it is blowing up a door and dungeon wall because she didn't want to wait for the keys, or beating seven shades of hell out of the elf queen.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:38
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The Witches books have really grown on me over the years, they're just so excellent and fun to read. I really struggle to pick out a favourite of a series within Discworld, but I think I'd have to give it to the City Watch books.
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Feb 12, 2015 21:49
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Fried Chicken posted:Though speaking of styles, I'll never get tired of the fact that despite being described as meek and soppy, Magrat's style is overwhelming brute force against the target, whether it is blowing up a door and dungeon wall because she didn't want to wait for the keys, or beating seven shades of hell out of the elf queen. Not really surprising when you consider that her top character trait is basically "thinking that things are Really Important."
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Feb 13, 2015 01:58
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It honestly took me a long time to warm up to the witches but now that I Get them a little better they're up there with Vimes et al.. I still can't fuckin stand reading about wizards though.
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Feb 13, 2015 03:15
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Skippy McPants posted:She improves people's lives in a million little ways that Granny just can't manage because she's too bitter, spiteful and focused to ever actually sit down and be people. She just isn't nice that's all, but that's not the same thing. She always has people's best interests at heart (whether they loving like it or not).
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Feb 13, 2015 05:05
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tooterfish posted:Eh? Granny isn't bitter and spiteful. She's well aware she's supposed to be The Bad One, so she keeps those aspects of her personality well under control. She is a bit bitter that she couldn't be the bad one, especially since her sister was so crap at it.But that's something she came to terms with a long time ago.
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Feb 13, 2015 09:47
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tooterfish posted:Eh? Granny isn't bitter and spiteful. She's well aware she's supposed to be The Bad One, so she keeps those aspects of her personality well under control. Pterry has said that Granny was in part inspired by the witch in Into The Woods, who says "I'm not good, I'm not nice, I'm just right". Granny's problem is that she's well respected, so the only thing stopping her abusing her position is herself. If she weren't well respected, though, she might be worse. That's the real difference between Esme and Lily; Lily thought she could make people respect her, while Esme knows respect has to be earned.
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Feb 13, 2015 10:17
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tooterfish posted:Eh? Granny isn't bitter and spiteful. She's well aware she's supposed to be The Bad One, so she keeps those aspects of her personality well under control. She's bitter and spiteful because she has everyone's best interests at heart. You're correct; she's not nice, and the strain of always having to do right by people who are, by and large, petty, stupid, never thank her and even fear her, is enough to make anyone extremely grumpy.
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Feb 13, 2015 11:24
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VagueRant posted:What's the general take on the Hogfather TV adaptation? I just got through the audiobook and have been looking into it a little. (I always thought David Jason was playing Rincewind on TV. Albert makes a lot more sense!) I found it slow and the pacing really bad. The actors were casted well but watching it as a whole instead of the four parts makes it drag on quite a bit. How are the books past A Long Earth, I've read that one just wondering if War/Mars were worth picking up now or waiting for the cheaper paperback.
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Feb 13, 2015 14:11
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Granny is totally bitter and spiteful; see The Sea and Little FIshes for an example. Not even just the bit about the Witch Trials! The story starts with Nanny deliberately baiting Granny with a token of esteem someone gave Nanny, so that Granny will take out a bit of her ongoing grudge on Nanny and not on the rest of the world.
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Feb 13, 2015 15:38
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I don't think Granny is spiteful, as spiteful implies unnecessary cruelty, or taking pleasure in being cruel. I think she's like Vetinari in the way she totally believes in necessary cruelty, but won't just be cruel for no reason. I think she is bitter though. She's bitter because everyone else around her that she helps is an idiot and her life would be a lot easier if she didn't have to lie and manipulate the simple peasant folk. At the same time though she also takes pride in her work and likes the respect she gets from tricking simple peasant folk, so Granny can't be Granny if everyone she helps wasn't an idiot. So yeah I think spiteful is a bit unfair, especially as there are plenty of instances where she shows mercy where she didn't need too, and everything cruel she does is nearly always in order to help someone.
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Feb 13, 2015 17:31
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I really like what Granny tells her sister in their moment alone together.
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Feb 13, 2015 17:31
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I just really like Granny.
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Feb 13, 2015 17:55
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Spiteful has the wrong connotation, I think. She does know what's best for people and is irritated by them being drat fools, but she doesn't go out of the way to hurt people for her own reasons. Just the opposite in fact, she only does it when her other methods haven't worked and it is for something bigger. It is a core part of her character and, in Weird Sisters, the plot. The nadir of the protagonists in it is when they almost get run over by the cart, it is also the only time we see Granny almost lose it and cut loose. If she had it would have confirmed the rumors and lead to the witches losing, but with the help of Nanny and Margat she manages to rein herself in and bring her self control (which is her heroic power, in plot terms) back to the fore so she can think and work her way out of the problem.
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Feb 13, 2015 19:29
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Granny was given an impossibly cute kitten as a prank by Tiffany and she accepted the burden of being owned by a cat and treats it with respect. Anyone who is nice to cats is ok, as Death would agree.
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Feb 15, 2015 14:29
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Pwnstar posted:Granny was given an impossibly cute kitten as a prank by Tiffany and she accepted the burden of being owned by a cat and treats it with respect. I dont think it was a prank, I think it was more of a test. She knew Granny wasn't enjoying being alone as much as she made out and she wasn't as nasty as she made out either. So she gave her the cat as a sort of test. She could have just rejected the cat there and then but that was what would have been expected. As we all know Granny doesn't do what other people expect her to do, so she accepts the cat making it look reluctant but secretly appreciating it it. Which is what Tiffany expected her to do. It's the same when Tiffany gives her that cloak at the end of the last novel. Everyone knows Granny doesn't like fancy stuff but Tiffany knows she does secretly like the idea of being a bit fancy (just like when she gave that shepherd china doll to her nan. Her nan knew a real shepherd doesn't wear fancy dresses, but it would be nice if they could). So she gives it to her in a way that let's her save face. Like in both of them Tiffany presents the gift as something that Granny is uniquely qualified to look after or use, and she could give it to someone else but it wouldn't be as well looked after or it would be a waste. So of COURSE Granny needs to accept it, I mean it's not like she really has a choice is it? At the same time though if you actually don't give Granny a choice she will move mountains to choose something different to you offered. I think it's basically an insight into how good Tiffany is as a witch. Kitchner fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Feb 15, 2015 |
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Feb 15, 2015 15:17
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Maybe test was a better word yeah but she was definitely amused with herself for doing it. Another reason why it proves she's a good witch is that its the kind of thing Nanny would do, earlier on she kinda sees Granny as the pinnacle of witchery but then she meets Nanny Ogg who doesn't seem to act like a witch at all at first. Then there's a scene where she gets Granny to do what she wants by making her think she came up with the idea and Tiffany is like "hooooly poo poo"
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Feb 15, 2015 18:40
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Well it's said that Granny's pride is her biggest weakness, which is why she's relatively easy work for Nanny to manipulate. On the other hand, Nanny has no shame so it's like the total opposite of what Granny's weakness is.
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Feb 16, 2015 01:30
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Pride is one of Granny's primary weapons, it also serves as a weakness sometimes because pride does have it's limits. There are a lot of things it won't allow you to do, even if you might want to. It also makes you predictable, to an extent, which is why less rigid witches like Nanny or Tiffany are sometimes able to manipulate Granny. Esme knows they're playing her, but she has to go along for the sake of appearance. Tiffany is almost too good a witch. I give her a pass because her book series was convinced for a younger audience, but she's essentially Granny with most of the neurosis filtered out. All of the competence and cunning, but with only a fraction the arrogance and surliness. And it can't even be said that she'll calcify as she ages, since we've met the older her, and she's still pretty laid back.
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Feb 17, 2015 02:00
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This sounds cool: http://www.randomhouse.co.uk/editions/the-discworld-atlas/9780857521309 quote:Painstakingly compiled under the aegis of the Unseen University’s Department of Cruel and Unusual Geography, The Discworld Atlas is a glorious travellers’ guide to the marvellous world created by Sir Terry Pratchett. Comes out 22/10.
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Feb 17, 2015 15:06
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