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Suspicious Dish posted:Do you really want a maximize button that can't do anything since the window isn't responding? It'd be nice if the close button worked. I guess that's too much to expect. Taking the one area that's guaranteed to be an inert handle that can be safely clicked on to move the window around and turning it into a minefield of random buttons is a pretty terrible user experience, btw. pseudorandom name fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Feb 13, 2015 04:46
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The close button doesn't work in X11 if an application is stuck. It just sends a WM_DELETE_WINDOW message to the window, and then also send a ping request to the window (_NET_WM_PING) and if the app doesn't respond to the ping, we show a dialog after five seconds allowing the user to kill the window. Under Wayland, if you click anywhere on the window, we send a ping request to the window (xdg_shell.ping), and if the app doesn't respond to the ping, we show a dialog after five seconds allowing the user to kill the window.
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Feb 13, 2015 05:07
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i rly like gnome 3 and think its a LOT better of a window manmager than windows and osx and linux ppl are jus super freakin crtical and find fault w/ eerything oh well i guess YOSPOS bitch or something
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Feb 13, 2015 05:08
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its actually bad
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Feb 13, 2015 05:09
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pram posted:its actually bad haha nice try troll. go back to your bridge
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Feb 13, 2015 05:11
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Smythe posted:i rly like gnome 3 and think its a LOT better of a window manmager than windows and osx and linux ppl are jus super freakin crtical and find fault w/ eerything oh well i guess YOSPOS bitch or something same
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Feb 13, 2015 05:16
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KDE with a less terrible theme is ok.
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Feb 13, 2015 06:02
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at least in linux if i kill something it dies, windows often ignores my kill process command
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Feb 13, 2015 06:06
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Suspicious Dish posted:Trading for wildly improved windowed application performance? Hell yeah I'll make that tradeoff any day. lol gtk is going to be a horrible bloated slow shitmonster regardless of backend its running on also gnome is literal poo poo reminder that gnome devs literally removed minimize and maximize buttons from windows because "they dont make sense" lmao cthulhoo fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Feb 13, 2015 06:35
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I was actually talking about video games and things using OpenGL, because otherwise there's a giant copy that happens literally every frame in a windowed application because X is from the 90s.
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Feb 13, 2015 06:37
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ahh yes games on a linux desktop, a thing that exists
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Feb 13, 2015 06:39
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Suspicious Dish posted:Under Wayland, if you click anywhere on the window, we send a ping request to the window (xdg_shell.ping), and if the app doesn't respond to the ping, we show a dialog after five seconds allowing the user to kill the window. the client doesn't just hand the window server a region that should be treated as draggable? and what does "kill the window" even mean, do you really mean "kill the app that owns the window?" does this happen for any event not responded to? and why a dialog, why not just show a busy cursor when the pointer is over such a window?
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Feb 13, 2015 07:01
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2700 unread, anything cool?
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Feb 13, 2015 07:04
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the client is directly rendering to a rectangle on the backbuffer, iirc. somehow this prevents the WM from rendering the window controls to four rectangles surrounding that rectangle
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Feb 13, 2015 07:04
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so no
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Feb 13, 2015 07:05
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best part is how all gtk3 apps are broken in various hilarious ways on other wms because of this client decoration poo poo i remember opening some poo poo app in wmaker and welp
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Feb 13, 2015 07:10
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pseudorandom name posted:the client is directly rendering to a rectangle on the backbuffer, iirc. It's a lot easier for the client to draw it, and that means that we won't have seams or discontinuities when resizing windows like you do in X11 right now, and when you switch focus, both the application and the borders redraw at the same time.
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Feb 13, 2015 07:45
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eschaton posted:the client doesn't just hand the window server a region that should be treated as draggable? Right now "kill the window" means "kill the PID associated with the application". It happens only if the client doesn't respond to a ping request -- Wayland is a stream-based protocol like protobufs, not a RPC protocol, so method replies don't exist in the system. We show a dialog because that's what other systems do, including Windows, OS X and Unity. We don't currently ping a window so we can't show a busy cursor on entry, but it's entirely possible for us to implement that feature, we just haven't.
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Feb 13, 2015 07:55
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cthulhoo posted:gnome devs literally removed the minimize and maximize buttons is this a real thing that exists?
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Feb 13, 2015 08:40
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Captain Pike posted:is this a real thing that exists? yes. you can turn them back on using Tweak UI, but they'll probably accidentally break it entirely or remove the feature for their glorious tablet vision sooner or later.
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Feb 13, 2015 08:43
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Captain Pike posted:is this a real thing that exists? u can do it by right click the top. ezpz
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Feb 13, 2015 08:53
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imvho gnome is used w/out minimizing windows.u can pile them like crazy and use the expose knockoff to choose the right one, or, if u want it on a pristine desktop, just toss it on anotehr desktoip. ez
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Feb 13, 2015 08:54
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You can right-click the top of the window or use Super+H.
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Feb 13, 2015 09:10
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Sassafras fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Feb 20, 2015 |
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Feb 13, 2015 09:14
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gnome tweak tool existing deserves a special mention wrt laffs tbf
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Feb 13, 2015 09:19
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cthulhoo posted:reminder that gnome devs literally removed minimize and maximize buttons from windows because "they dont make sense" lmao I'm surprised that I actually never noticed this. I guess I'm used to working with windows by pressing win+arrows all the time
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Feb 13, 2015 09:28
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idgaf about buttons personally but u know lmao at the hubris of these peopleSassafras posted:GNOME 3.x: We don't need no stinking usage metrics, that would imply we care about real users rather than our vision designing for users existing irl is so passe
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Feb 13, 2015 09:34
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after reading all this i'm actually unironically so glad i use fvwm. it's almost like you have to hand-edit a window manager config file with a syntax from the 1990s in order to have a working desktop environment that won't randomly change every time you dare upgrade.
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Feb 13, 2015 09:50
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that or "screw it and use wmaker, it just works" but i like my flexibility too much i guess.
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Feb 13, 2015 09:51
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i like wmaker it looks good and is less bad and dumb than alternatives 
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Feb 13, 2015 10:02
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i miss fluxbox  :
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Feb 13, 2015 10:34
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There Will Be Penalty posted:after reading all this i'm actually unironically so glad i use fvwm. hey there fvwm buddy 
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Feb 13, 2015 17:43
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Suspicious Dish posted:We show a dialog because that's what other systems do, including Windows, OS X and Unity. OS X shows a busy cursor (the infamous "beachball") when an application doesn't respond to window server events in a timely fashion. it doesn't interrupt the user with an alert panel.
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Feb 13, 2015 18:37
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I thought there was a "Mail.app is not responding"-type dialog. Anyway, what happens after the user sees the beachball? They quit the application somehow and it shows the "Mail.app quit unexpectedly" dialog? I'd be fine changing it, we just chose a different design than OS X. It's not technically impossible to do.
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Feb 13, 2015 18:41
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give applications two seconds to respond to WM messages then terminate them with extreme prejudice wtf is this poo poo
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Feb 13, 2015 18:43
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Mr Dog posted:give applications two seconds to respond to WM messages then terminate them with extreme prejudice wtf is this poo poo truly, iOS is the best operating system of course, iOS doesn't have to deal with demand paging
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Feb 13, 2015 18:44
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i dislike gnome for multiple reasons (kde 5 lookin reallly good by the way) but lack of a minimize button is not one of them it has probably been years since i minimized a window, if i dont need it i dont need to have the program open, if i don't need it now and its getting in my way i move it to another desktop desktops which are arranged in a rectangular grid by the way, as god intended 
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Feb 13, 2015 18:45
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i do like, and use, the minimize feature removing minimization fucks with my ~*~ workflow ~*~, so i will obviously not be counted among gnome 3 users which means there will be no one demanding the feature which means the feature is useless you see how the process works?
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Feb 13, 2015 18:51
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Minimization is a crappy manual way of switching between working sets, virtual desktops accomplish this a lot better. Trouble is that GNOME 3's simplification of virtual desktops throws the baby out with the bathwater. Moving between them by hammering Ctrl+Alt+(Up|Down) five or six times is really clumsy. Maybe if there was a fixed 3x3 grid of workspaces instead? I doubt I'd need more than nine working sets (right up until the moment when you actually do of course), and you're always at most two steps away from any of the others. Designing this sort of thing is unironically hard though. Perhaps a strip of 10 desktops along the bottom of the overview where you could hit Super+# to switch between them rapidly. Basically the idea is good but not the implementation
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Feb 13, 2015 19:47
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Soricidus posted:hey there fvwm buddy   
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Feb 13, 2015 20:09
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