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If U/G theme isn't madness you're a bad person
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Jan 20, 2015 05:20
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My group and I have run in to a dilemma - I have a 4-man cube with exactly enough cards for 4 people. The issue we've run in to is that we've played enough that everyone knows every card in the cube; there's no variance now. Since it's 4-man it's pretty much "grab the best cards in your colors uncontested". It's getting a little... stale. So I'm considering, as curator of the cube, expanding the amount of cards in the cube to accommodate 8 people, but only use half of the cards each time we draft. The cards would be sorted by color, then half of each color would be chosen, at random, and shuffled together for "packs". That way you can't count on getting certain cards. Has anyone done anything like this? Does this tactic work? I understand that doing something like this may, unintentionally, weaken some colors. Is that something that I should avoid?
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Jan 23, 2015 04:21
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Balon posted:My group and I have run in to a dilemma - I have a 4-man cube with exactly enough cards for 4 people. The issue we've run in to is that we've played enough that everyone knows every card in the cube; there's no variance now. Since it's 4-man it's pretty much "grab the best cards in your colors uncontested". It's getting a little... stale. The main reason we don't do that is that it requires sorting the cards by color after every play session. I just randomly deal out half the cube with four players.
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Jan 23, 2015 04:31
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Balon posted:My group and I have run in to a dilemma - I have a 4-man cube with exactly enough cards for 4 people. The issue we've run in to is that we've played enough that everyone knows every card in the cube; there's no variance now. Since it's 4-man it's pretty much "grab the best cards in your colors uncontested". It's getting a little... stale. When we draft (normally 6-8 people for cube sized at 9-10 people), we divide up the types (color, land, artifact, multicolor) into stacks (usually at least 6+ stacks, up to the number of drafters) so that each type if equally distributed among stacks. Then shuffle that stack and make 3 packs out of it. Packs won't have equally distributed types (like real packs), but the probability is much higher for an even distribution so packs containing like 9 black cards and 5 lands don't happen too often. After playing, I sort the Cube into types and count them, mostly just to make sure no card got lost (I know the count of each type, so easy to check). Leaving someone's sideboard somewhere sometimes happens; this prevents it and also prepares for the next time we Cube.
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Jan 23, 2015 06:37
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I personally have a 540 card cube that mostly gets team drafted (so 270 cards) and when we do do an 8-man draft its 2/3rds of the cube, but I personally just randomly deal out the cube. Making sure there's an even color distribution before hand feels a little too rigid to me, I like the idea of a slight color imbalance being possible. To count the cards and make sure we have everything I make everyone count out 45 nonbasic lands. Its worked out pretty well to say the least.
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Jan 23, 2015 16:43
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I have a 600 cube and the most play it gets is honestly just 2-player sealed with my girlfriend. We each just grab 90 cards at random after shuffling it up, works perfectly fine as long as your cube has precise color balance (which mine does), the pools come out just like you'd expect of any real sealed format. You just rarely get to do the insanely broken combos in here, though once I got an insane reanimator setup by chance....
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Jan 23, 2015 20:06
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I run 450 (enough to cube 10 people). Usually my max I draft with (and prefer) is 8 people. The most cards my playgroup sees is 375 cards ( 3 packs of 15, + one 15 card pack with Lore Seeker). This number gives an additional 75 cards left over that aren't in the pool and create diversity for current and future drafts. Anyway, I keep to a 450 card minimum/maximum for consistency purposes but there's no reason you couldn't add an additional 20, 40 or 60 cards to create variance. It's cube! Do what you want!
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Jan 24, 2015 05:38
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I just have a 360-card (so eight people exactly) cube but most of the time we draft it with just four people. Ensuring an exact color balance in the reduced pool you use for fewer people seems like more trouble than it'd be worth for what balance you'd get over just using half yanked out at random. One thing we have liked doing differently with fewer people is making more packs with fewer cards - five packs of nine, rather than three packs of fifteen.BaronVonVaderham posted:You just rarely get to do the insanely broken combos in here, though once I got an insane reanimator setup by chance.... This has been my experience with drafting an 8-person cube with four people, right down to the precisely one time I managed to open/get passed Elesh Norn, Griselbrand, Pack Rat, Entomb, Unburial Rites, etc. etc... Johnny Landmine fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Jan 24, 2015 |
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Jan 24, 2015 15:52
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Had this draft out of wtwlf's cube this evening. http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/259976 Talk about stalling someone. It's probably a forced idea, but there were so many sweepers and lockdown pieces in the packs I was passed I couldn't pass it up. I'd love to have tried playing this deck out, to see how it fared.
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Jan 25, 2015 00:59
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Xir posted:Had this draft out of wtwlf's cube this evening. Honestly, not as great as you would have thought. You might have been better off using that pool to make a super aggressive Boros deck that wins on the spot with Ravages of War. The Moat/Stax/Wildfire deck really only functions off of a boodle of mana rocks/ramp/walkers as well as token makers like Lingering Souls and Spectral Procession. The deck is pretty unfocused as is. And I say that as lovingly as I can. <3 Null1fy fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 01:20
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Well I'm poo poo at drafting since I've never done it, so that is hardly surprising. Also, I'm just getting back into Magic after not playing since Visions or so. Thanks for the critique, I have a better idea what to look for.
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Jan 25, 2015 01:31
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Loving the turn one Savannah Lions followed up by turn four Moat. Sick nasty combos!
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Jan 28, 2015 11:43
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Null1fy posted:trying out Mind Twist Speaking of discard effects. What are some other good black discard that are powered cube worthy. I 3-0ed a magic online deck that was just wraths/discard/bombs/removal and the odd dude that just does good stuff entering or leaving the battlefield. Not sure if it was a viable deck or I just got lucky but it was hella fun to wrath game one, have the guy play around it game two just to watch his entire hand go to the bin then not know what to do game three. I wanna make it viable archetype in my cube but with cards that are good enough to stand alone. I got hymn, Nezumi shortfang, mind twist, and persecute and a hypno so far.
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Jan 29, 2015 21:25
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TheAbortionator posted:Speaking of discard effects. What are some other good black discard that are powered cube worthy. I 3-0ed a magic online deck that was just wraths/discard/bombs/removal and the odd dude that just does good stuff entering or leaving the battlefield. Not sure if it was a viable deck or I just got lucky but it was hella fun to wrath game one, have the guy play around it game two just to watch his entire hand go to the bin then not know what to do game three. I wanna make it viable archetype in my cube but with cards that are good enough to stand alone. I got hymn, Nezumi shortfang, mind twist, and persecute and a hypno so far. Inquisition of Kozilek, Thoughseize, Duress, Liliana of the Veil honorable mentions-Stupor, Gerrard's Verdict, Mesmeric Fiend, Brain Maggot, Tidehollow Sculler, Cabal Therapy
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Jan 29, 2015 21:31
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There is also the "fixed" Mind Twist, Mind Shatter which is a little more fair and has awesome art. Raven's Crime can be good or bad depending on cube make up, too.
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Jan 29, 2015 21:44
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I run conspiracies (which helps the case for running this) so I play Blightning. It's already super slick, but double stroked it all of the sudden becomes an insane mind twist / lightning bolt x2. Rakdos Return is also a pretty neat one. The main ones are Duress, Inquisition and Thought Seize in terms of pure discard. I'm not a fan of pox/smallpox though plenty of people support black aggro and the pox package. I'm just not one of them. Oh, also: Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Dack Fayden and Jace, Memory Adept are insane in limited. I've milled people out with Dack before so don't assume his +1 is just for you. Null1fy fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 21:50
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Great stuff so far. Mind shatter might go in but I don't like having two cards that do the same thing with one being strickly better but on the other hand it makes it possible to draft two cards that can wipe out an entire hand which is what I'd be going for. Do any of you run all three of the 1 black thought seizeish cards? I like having lots of 1 black agro cards and wouldn't want to dilute that part of the curve to much. Also I feel they are more for dismantling combos or dodging game changing cards then they are for punishin people anticipating wrathes.
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Jan 29, 2015 22:21
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TheAbortionator posted:Do any of you run all three of the 1 black thought seizeish cards? I like having lots of 1 black agro cards and wouldn't want to dilute that part of the curve to much. Also I feel they are more for dismantling combos or dodging game changing cards then they are for punishin people anticipating wrathes. Duress, Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek? Yes I Run All Three. They are good in the right deck - and against the right deck - however, I usually favor strict removal over hand disruption when drafting. I have to be in something pretty controlling to want hand disruption.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:04
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Madmarker posted:Inquisition of Kozilek, Thoughseize, Duress, Liliana of the Veil Also Hymn to Tourach. If your cube is very powerful, Unmask might be worth a shot.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:50
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Elyv posted:Also Hymn to Tourach. Oh yeah! It's also pretty silly if you use Unexpected Potential to make it 2 colorless.
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Jan 30, 2015 02:37
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Null1fy posted:Duress, Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek? Yes I Run All Three. They are good in the right deck - and against the right deck - however, I usually favor strict removal over hand disruption when drafting. I have to be in something pretty controlling to want hand disruption. Hand disruption is actually stellar in aggressive/proactive decks, you should try it out. The nature of discard (bar the rare instant speed discard spell) is that it gets worse as the game progresses, therefore I'd argue that it's actually better in proactive decks than reactive, controlling decks (which prefer cards that hold their value into the late game.) Curving out with aggressive beaters into targeted discard will steal games from decks that depend on particular spells to win or to bridge them into the mid-late game (ramp, removal, sweepers, combo pieces, etc.). It's one of my favorite archetypes for sure. Lord Of Texas fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 04:19
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So this weekend I have some friends coming over to play my cube for the first time. In addition, this is the first Limited Magic any of us will have played. I'll only have four people drafting from the cube. How do I conduct a draft with less than a full pod? In addition, here's the cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/20434 It's really unfocused at the moment. Is there a good reference anywhere with a list of common supported archetypes in cube and the cards you need to make them work? After this first draft I intend to do a tuning pass and start incorporating these archetypes.
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Feb 4, 2015 14:26
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Xir posted:So this weekend I have some friends coming over to play my cube for the first time. In addition, this is the first Limited Magic any of us will have played. Do more packs with fewer cards. This helps stop packs from feeling stale or picked over. With four people I'd recommend 5 packs of 9. Still adhere to the Left-Right-Left... passing order.
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Feb 4, 2015 18:17
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I also really like team sealed (with or without playing it 2HG) with four people. I find 100 cards per team makes a good size pool to build from. It gives enough playables without seeming overwhelming. Doing this might be especially good if everyone is new to limited. If you draft, definitely do the 5 packs of 9 thing. I might even do 10 card packs for the first team just to give people more picks to build from.
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Feb 4, 2015 19:36
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Elyv posted:Also Hymn to Tourach. If your cube is very powerful, Unmask might be worth a shot. .....He already has Hymn TheAbortionator posted:I got hymn, Nezumi shortfang, mind twist, and persecute and a hypno so far. But yeah, it is the most cube worthy of discard spells, its busted as hell without being Mind Twist (which he also has). because seriously...gently caress mind twist.
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Feb 4, 2015 20:01
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So I am thinking of pulling the trigger on some pretty good counterfeit cards to start my cube. Probably 100 of the most expensive cards/cube staples. I figure its faster than making the proxies myself and they will 'pop' and feel better (apparently even pass the light,bend,water test). Do goons think its worth it for about $1.50 a card? The rest of this cube is going to cost me several hundreds so I figure save on what I can.
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Feb 6, 2015 04:37
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Xeom posted:So I am thinking of pulling the trigger on some pretty good counterfeit cards to start my cube. Probably 100 of the most expensive cards/cube staples. I figure its faster than making the proxies myself and they will 'pop' and feel better (apparently even pass the light,bend,water test). Do goons think its worth it for about $1.50 a card? I mean, are you asking: "Hey goons, what do you think of the moral and legal implications of buying incredibly high quality counterfeit cards to use casually among friends whom I should probably be asking instead of you, random internet friends?" or "Hey goons, is it a worthwhile investment to purchase incredibly expensive cards in their counterfeit form, made in such high quality that they may pass for the real deal except for a skilled eye thus saving me thousands of dollars?". So uh... 100 counterfeits for $150. Seems pretty sweet to me in contrast to buying the same 100 legitimate cards which could run you potentially $10,000+. Morally? The internet jury is out on that one.
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Feb 6, 2015 07:44
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I would use proxies and do use proxies for cards I own in my cube. Unless your cube is way more hardcore than any experience I've had, a dual land is one would be orange crush away from me crying in the bathtub with a bottle of peppermint schnapps.
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Feb 6, 2015 07:51
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I wouldn't personally. I pirated more music than I can count as a kid, so far be it from me to make a judgement on someone who wants a cheap alternative to 10 duals. What I will say though is be a decent person and mark your fakes in some way. Write "proxy" across the back in marker, its going to look the same in your cube and it removes the possibility of it ever being used to rip someone off. (You never know how these things might make it back into circulation) Whatever you think of WOTC or retailers when some kid blows his summer job money on fake duals it's a lovely thing and if you really just care about your cube it won't cost you a thing to scribble "FAKE" across the back. The reason I say I wouldn't isn't on moral grounds though. The quality is middling to really poor with these fakes and like most of the Chinese knock-off industry these counterfeiters are basically a few steps removed from scammers. They advertise custom orders of all these cards but in reality they just have one or two sheets they print, cut, and package. One guy at my local store ordered 150+ cards hoping to finish off his cube. What he got instead were three small boxes, each box had 56 cards and the content of each box was identical. He needed maybe 6 of the cards he got shipped.
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Feb 6, 2015 08:27
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Don't buy counterfeits, you shouldn't give money to those people. If you make some proxies with a good colour printer and they'll look just as good in sleeves.
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Feb 6, 2015 10:26
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I paid someone to produce some proxies for my cube and it was worth it in my case. Why? I wanted a modern cube with vintage cards. That is, I wanted a cube with all modern borders, but wanted to have the ability to include any card ever made. So what I did is make modern templates for all the cards that have never been reprinted with a modern boarder but are cube staples (e.g. duals). I then sent those templates over and had someone else make the proxies. About the proxies themselves: The proxies aren't so good that you can't tell they're proxies. You can definitely tell. I'm not trying to fool anyone. If someone asks, which they probably will, then I tell them that they are proxies. Why even pay for proxies in that case? I wanted the proxies in my cube to be the same thickness and the same degree of flexibility as the normal cards. In that way, the project was a success. I have modern bordered version of cards that never were reprinted and you can't tell they're fake by handling them with your eyes closed. But, like I said, no one would ever believe they were legit after looking... even if they weren't on custom templates. The quality just isn't there, nor do I particularly want it to be.
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Feb 6, 2015 13:42
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Couldn't careless about the morality of buying counterfeit cardboard. Its probably in the same moral level as "Is it ok to fart in a empty room, because someone else might come in later and maybe smell it". Ciprian Maricon there are two kinds of chinese counterfitters as far as I can tell. Those who just print magic cards on cardboard and really don't put any effort into it, no colored core, don't care about passing any test. Then there are those who are really trying to make the best replicas possible. I think the guy I am buying from is more of the latter so hopefully the quality should be up there. Its obviously not 1:1, but I saw someone do a comparison online and it looked better than most homemade proxies by a mile. Although aparently the quality can change card to card due to differing quality of the scans the guy has. I asked mostly to see if anybody had made homemade proxies that looked and felt just as good for cheaper. But considering the time requirements of making the proxies now I think I will just buy. As far as ripping someone off, if I ever stop playing with these cards they will be going into a garbage bag with acetone. And I will write proxy on the backs of all of them.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:58
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Xeom posted:Ciprian Maricon there are two kinds of chinese counterfitters as far as I can tell. Those who just print magic cards on cardboard and really don't put any effort into it, no colored core, don't care about passing any test. Then there are those who are really trying to make the best replicas possible. I think the guy I am buying from is more of the latter so hopefully the quality should be up there. You are misinformed, while I'm sure plenty of the Chinese counterfeits are really really bad, the ones making all the big news are also very poor. The fakes I've seen in my area pass the bend, light, and water tests. They also have the black core paper that people say is in the SUPER GOOD NEW COUNTERFEITS that MTGLion threw a fit about and started talking about selling his collection (the previous batch that made the news last year had blue cores, so these are the supposed improvements) They are still garbage quality. It's just hype from twitter and forums, it takes some 30 days to get your cards so every time a new video or a convincing picture gets taken it makes a buzz on the internet but by the time anyone gets the cards and realizes they are real bad no one is talking about it anymore.  This is their latest super scary end of the world level counterfeit and the loving retards can't even get a set symbol on there. The quality is real bad in other ways. The cards are thin and flimsy like the cheapest traditional playing cards (because that's the kind of equipment they are printed on) they don't bend, feel, or shuffle like regular Magic cards do. I understand that people are just so excited to make their cheap cube or whatever but I'm telling you directly from people who've bought these cards, I'm telling you as I hold that lovely loving Batterskull in my hand. These cards suck real bad. I'm not trying to dissuade you because I think it's immoral, I just honestly think its a garbage product. Just buy your proxies on etsy or wherever people did before these Chinese fakes. They'll be as good or better, probably around the same price, you won't wait a month for your cards, and if you get ripped off you'll actually be able to get your money back. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 21:49
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Still kind of looking for a WR theme in my pauper cube. I was originally thinking RW Humans which seemed like it should be well supported, but is pretty eeeh. Obviously plenty of humans, but not a ton that cares about humans. Suggestions?
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Feb 7, 2015 01:54
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Alaan posted:Still kind of looking for a WR theme in my pauper cube. I was originally thinking RW Humans which seemed like it should be well supported, but is pretty eeeh. Obviously plenty of humans, but not a ton that cares about humans. Suggestions? I have a peasant cube, and I run RW tokens (most of the cards for which are common, or have common variants). Commons you could use are things like: Krenko's Command, Mogg War Marshal, Triplicate Spirits, Attended Knight etc. I included them with Trumpet Blast effects as finishers.
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Feb 7, 2015 09:24
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This was more along the post I was looking for. I am still going to buy them though, because its just to much work to make these myself, and frankly there is no where else to get these. Also whoever your friend bought from probably isn't the same guy. The guy I am buying from has a small list of cards he focuses on, about 130 cards he tries to perfect. He only prints those cards, batterskull is not a card he makes. In any case we will know in a month whats what. Alaan posted:Still kind of looking for a WR theme in my pauper cube. I was originally thinking RW Humans which seemed like it should be well supported, but is pretty eeeh. Obviously plenty of humans, but not a ton that cares about humans. Suggestions? Akroan Crusader is pretty good if your cube has enough spells that can trigger his heroic. Titan strength and hammerhand are pretty good triggers and should be great for any pauper cube.
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Feb 7, 2015 16:57
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Death of Rats posted:I have a peasant cube, and I run RW tokens (most of the cards for which are common, or have common variants). Commons you could use are things like: Krenko's Command, Mogg War Marshal, Triplicate Spirits, Attended Knight etc. I included them with Trumpet Blast effects as finishers. Out of curiosity, what is your full set of themes? Also I really just might end up going into big buck territory of peasant from pauper  I'd really like to have draft themes but so far I think only a couple of my themes aren't just straight up weaker than good stuff in those colors. You get really crimped on playables for a lot of stuff.Currently it is a Pauper Cube based on the pauper cube website's list circa a few years ago. Looking to expand it from 360->480 and put some themes in and then the troubles began! edit: And in the next million dollar question, in a 480 card cube about how many cards would you want for each two color theme? Alaan fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Feb 7, 2015 |
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Feb 7, 2015 20:40
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My favorite Peasant cube archetype is GW tokens. There's a whole bunch of powerful synergistic uncommons you can throw in like Imperious Perfect, Intangible Virtue, Shrine of Loyal Legions, Jade Mage, Supply // Demand, Goldnight Commander...
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Feb 12, 2015 21:24
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Alaan posted:Out of curiosity, what is your full set of themes? Also I really just might end up going into big buck territory of peasant from pauper Not sure I have a full set of "themes" - I've just been trying to build the cube to support the decks I like playing. I do keep a primer document on the whole thing, though; that way, in case I build in something interesting, players can see what's available before playing. Some of what I've tried to build into the cube includes: WB - Extort Control (need to add some more support for this - it's in the works); Weenie Aggro UR - Guttersnipe Combo; Tempo BG - Dredge Reanimator (again, need to add some more support for this - at least a Commune with the Gods effect); Rock Midrange RW - Aggro Tokens; Aggro GU - Goodstuff.dec (gently caress knows what you can do with GU other than Draw/Ramp...Win but I like playing it) GW - Midrange tokens; Ramp WU - Flicker Control; Skies UB - Reanimator/Aetherplasm Combo; Control BR - Rakdos Deck Wins; Control RG - Monsters Ramp; Aggro List here (Modern Peasant, primer linked in description): http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/14449
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Feb 13, 2015 13:48
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Re: proxy discussion - I recommend checking out mtgimage.com and CCGHQ and making your own proxies. If you're paying 1.50 a card for Chinese proxies, it's WAY cheaper to make your own. What I do is print out high-quality images on photo paper, then just slide the cut-out in front of another magic card in a sleeve. So I don't give money to shady Chinese dealers, I make proxies that are super-realistic, but ALSO won't ever get into the market and be mistaken for a real card and used to scam someone.
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Feb 13, 2015 17:17
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