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it is just so emotionally draining to post "lol fr" therefore I rule that Fighters could only do it once per day
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Feb 14, 2015 17:59
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Really Pants posted:it is just so emotionally draining to post "lol fr" But there's a level 1 spell that can do it.
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Feb 14, 2015 18:57
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There's a feat in the new Wizards of Thay splatbook that turns it into a cantrip.
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Feb 14, 2015 19:03
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goatface posted:There's a feat in the new Wizards of Thay splatbook that turns it into a cantrip. And a cleric domain that gets it as a reaction.
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Feb 14, 2015 21:53
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Dirk the Average posted:And a cleric domain that gets it as a reaction. I've heard decent things about the Web domain.
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Feb 14, 2015 22:59
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It appears that WOTC is issuing cease-and-desists to D&D-related App store apps as well, after their dust-up with Pathguy earlier:d20 Fight Club posted:I received a cease and desist order from Wizards of the Coast. All D&D apps will be removed from the App Store as they weren't compliant with WotC's copyrights and trademarks. Hopefully they'll be back in some form someday. Til then, thanks for all the support. Facebook link to their page
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Feb 15, 2015 03:29
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Protecting your IP is something you have to do, sure. Maybe it would have been a good idea to wait to take down 3rd party apps until they actually had something to offer though. Or, you know, buy the rights to the already working apps that people already use, slap a logo on them, profit. Or even employ one of these actual programmers to work on the official apps. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Feb 15, 2015 |
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Feb 15, 2015 05:58
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Expecting the D&D team to do anything sensible with their IP on the internet is a hiding to nothing, I've been doing it since day 0 of 5e, and it's not succeeded yet.
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Feb 15, 2015 09:26
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AlphaDog posted:Protecting your IP is something you have to do, sure. Maybe it would have been a good idea to wait to take down 3rd party apps until they actually had something to offer though. Kurieg posted:It has a relatively decent MMO that has a ridiculously predatory monetization system.
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Feb 15, 2015 13:34
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AlphaDog posted:Or even employ one of these actual programmers to work on the official apps. Someone isn't familiar with Magic Online.
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Feb 15, 2015 13:34
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I downloaded a pretty good DnD app on Android recently and I sort of expected a cease and desist after the ones against the character generators online. I wonder if I get to keep the app if it's removed from the app store.
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Feb 15, 2015 13:36
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FRINGE posted:Thats pretty much WotCs entire model for everything. How so? I'm not fan of 5e or WotC in particular but what's so ridiculously predatory about their approach? They do give away a substantial preview for free and the three book model is a classic D&D staple that's really just what people expect and kind of want by now.
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Feb 15, 2015 13:52
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Sage Genesis posted:what's so ridiculously predatory about their approach
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Feb 15, 2015 13:56
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FRINGE posted:~ MAGIC ~ Magic isn't predatory, unless you actively hate paying for anything beyond an initial investment, ever.
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Feb 15, 2015 13:58
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Eh, Magic would be right up my alley if it didn't come down to paying money for the best cards in order to win. Dominion for life.
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Feb 15, 2015 14:01
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FRINGE posted:~ MAGIC ~ I think you have a somewhat uncommon definition of what "predatory" might mean. And even if M:tG had a predatory model, how does that make it their entire model for everything?
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Feb 15, 2015 14:02
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Gort posted:Eh, Magic would be right up my alley if it didn't come down to paying money for the best cards in order to win. Dominion for life. Different formats, different deck styles, different strategies within those deck styles, limited events, hell, even proxies... Magic is absolutely not pay to win, unless you're playing in the pro formats, and then you'll be disappointed as more seasoned players stomp all over your blinged out deck. Not to mention the massive third party retailer market means you can easily buy a box to draft and end up breaking even or making a little cash, and you'll actually be easily able to do that by popping over to any store. Honestly, I play at a decent skill level and I've probably spent way, way more money on RPG books than I ever have on Magic.
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Feb 15, 2015 14:09
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Lightning Lord posted:Honestly, I play at a decent skill level and I've probably spent way, way more money on RPG books than I ever have on Magic. edit- Would have been even better if they had never made that drat Chronicles set.
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Feb 15, 2015 14:18
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FRINGE posted:I was lucky that I played during the 3ed/Arabian/Legends era. When I sold that stuff it paid for two major trips. I started right after that, 4th and Ice Age. Chronicles is why Wizards made the Reserved List, which is a promise that certain cards will never be reprinted. Most people who aren't high-end retailers or collectors despise the list. Also, those high-level cards really skew the way some outsiders view the hobby - they aren't strictly necessarily. While it's legal in the format, I don't need Tundra in my Commander deck for it to be good.
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Feb 15, 2015 14:29
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FRINGE posted:How much is WotC being dumb and how much is Hasbro hand-waving lawyers at them? Who knows, really, but based on most assessments, the D&D arm of WotC is a blip on the radar of WotC and WotC is a blip on the radar of Hasbro, so it's doubtful how hands-on the parent company are being. On the converse side, I suspect Hasbro has some fairly stringent IP protection policies. On the gripping hand though, someone's got to actually be DOING this stuff. I get the impression the D&D team now has more people protecting its IP than it does actually making it. Make of that what you will.
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Feb 15, 2015 14:53
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thespaceinvader posted:On the gripping hand though, someone's got to actually be DOING this stuff. I get the impression the D&D team now has more people protecting its IP than it does actually making it. Make of that what you will. That right there's the thing -- with all the cease-and-desist action going on, one would think that Wizards could send some of those legal and sales resources out to negotiate pricing / royalties with one of these groups instead. For instance, I hear Hero Lab has some good stuff going on -- I'm sure that like PCGen before it, it'll be far better than whatever Wizards develops in-house.
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Feb 15, 2015 15:07
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Lightning Lord posted:Honestly, I play at a decent skill level and I've probably spent way, way more money on RPG books than I ever have on Magic. Then how come Magic makes a hojillion times the money? Someone's buying the cards.
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Feb 15, 2015 15:47
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Gort posted:Then how come Magic makes a hojillion times the money? Someone's buying the cards. I'm not saying nobody is buying cards, or that it's a cheap hobby, I'm saying that the idea that blowing a billion bucks is required to play isn't true, even beyond the basic levels. Also? Honestly, the appeal is way broader, and it's a better designed product than Next.
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Feb 15, 2015 15:54
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Lightning Lord posted:I'm not saying nobody is buying cards, or that it's a cheap hobby, I'm saying that the idea that blowing a billion bucks is required to play isn't true, even beyond the basic levels. Find a friend (possibly through this forum) who is a big Magic nerd and has put together a Cube, which is basically home made packs of cards for card drafting.
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Feb 15, 2015 15:58
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Gort posted:Then how come Magic makes a hojillion times the money? Someone's buying the cards. People who want their entire deck to be foils.
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Feb 15, 2015 16:02
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You realize how expensive Magic gets when you check out the Living Card Game model, where there's no card rarity and every pack always has the same cards in the same amounts... but then again most living card games expect you to buy 2-3 Core sets 
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Feb 15, 2015 16:17
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Yeah sorry as someone who used to play a mixture of MTG, pen and paper RPGs, and Warhamer/40K on a regular basis, the pen and paper RPGs were by far the cheapest.
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Feb 15, 2015 16:50
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I don't know, I played MtG back when I was in grade school, I think I bought a grand total of... three or four random packs, then traded with people, and just from that I had a pretty competitive deck. Maybe there are some hyper-expensive, super-effective novelty combos that're going to cost you hundreds of dollars, but you're not going to come up against that, and hence be forced to resort to the same sort of shenanigans to have a fighting chance, unless you're playing against someone who takes the game way too seriously. And at that point, even if the game was cheap, it wasn't going to be any fun. Just buying up the core books for a given edition of D&D or for Exalted or something definitely put me back more than playing MtG ever did.
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Feb 15, 2015 17:07
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As someone who didn't touch Magic til college (and even then, only Commander), there's a huge difference between the decks people put money into and the rest in terms of effectiveness. Like yea, if everyone you're playing with is just goofing around you can get away with a handful of whatever, but once people start putting effort into it you can plainly see the gulf between the peops who put way too much money into it (like, $500-1000+ EDH decks) and the folks just buying in to be social (me, with my $40-60 Niv Mizzet deck). I guess my point is yea, you don't need $$$ to play MtG, but there might be pressure to do so to stay competitive in whatever circles you play with.
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Feb 15, 2015 17:29
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PurpleXVI posted:I don't know, I played MtG back when I was in grade school, I think I bought a grand total of... three or four random packs, then traded with people, and just from that I had a pretty competitive deck. Yeah you see in the day of the internet and things when you're not all 14 this doesn't work. This works on he assumption that you think all cards of the same rarity are equally as powerful, which they are not. Some common cards (lightening bolt, 1 mana for 3 damage) are way better than uncommon or even rare cards. So you have yourself a good common card, why would you ever trade it for anything less than another equally as good card? Trading one good card for 5 poo poo ones doesn't help you at all. So it only works if people don't understand the value of their cards. These days even younger players use the Internet to understand what cards are good or not, so the whole trading thing is utterly pointless. The cheapest way to build a good deck is to just buy the cards you want directly, or at least it was when I was playing. The whole idea that a good player can beat anyone with any deck is also rubbish. Most of my friends were about equal, apart from one guy who was awesome. True he could out perform people with decks that weren't as good etc. but there's only so far that gets you. If all your friends have poo poo decks yeah you can cobble together a poo poo deck and play fairly cheaply. If some of them have pretty good decks though you do too. Compare that to even DnD, you only need 1 person in the group to have the books really. Even then you can get by with just the PHB if you already know what you're doing. Even if the DM has all three books (£75) and each of the 4 players have a copy of the PHB (£100) it's less than £40 a player, which I think you'd maybe get a single half decent magic deck for, when all your friends have like 3 good ones each. So yeah, I think pen and paper roleplaying is actually a pretty cheap hobby when compared to similar stuff.
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Feb 15, 2015 17:31
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Gort posted:Then how come Magic makes a hojillion times the money? Someone's buying the cards. Yeah, exactly. Someone's buying the cards. That's why Magic makes so much more money: it has what may as well be an infinitely broader player base in comparison to D&D.
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Feb 15, 2015 22:32
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Azran posted:You realize how expensive Magic gets when you check out the Living Card Game model, where there's no card rarity and every pack always has the same cards in the same amounts
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Feb 15, 2015 23:14
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Azran posted:You realize how expensive Magic gets when you check out the Living Card Game model, where there's no card rarity and every pack always has the same cards in the same amounts... but then again most living card games expect you to buy 2-3 Core sets Look at this dude buying boosters.
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Feb 15, 2015 23:19
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So trying to steer this trainwreck back into Dungeons and Dragons. In the West Marches game most of the major players just hit 5th, so extra attacks, etc. How big of a jump is that in terms of them murdering whatever I throw at them?
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Feb 15, 2015 23:24
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Elendil004 posted:So trying to steer this trainwreck back into Dungeons and Dragons. In the West Marches game most of the major players just hit 5th, so extra attacks, etc. How big of a jump is that in terms of them murdering whatever I throw at them? Anecdotally, I think that 5th level has been around where characters start to play less like shitscared newbies who are out of their depths and more like competent heroes who are going to kick asses. How much of that is abilities and resources and how much is ~DM's call~ (ie, adventure design, which monsters they used, etc) is impossible for me to tell. I also haven't yet played the same character from 1st through 6th, so that will skew things too. So I think that you'll probably see them having an easier time, unless monsters appropriate for 5th level characters are a bigger jump than previous levels. I'm not sure they actually are though.
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Feb 16, 2015 00:11
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Elendil004 posted:So trying to steer this trainwreck back into Dungeons and Dragons. In the West Marches game most of the major players just hit 5th, so extra attacks, etc. How big of a jump is that in terms of them murdering whatever I throw at them? Well I mean for most classes that aren't casters, from what I've seen it sort of goes like this: Level 1 - Newb Level 2 - Now you have some sort of ability that helps but doesn't change a great deal Level 3 - Specialisation so you get whatever the starting benefits of that spec are Level 4 - Stat boost, so potentially increasing a modifier by +1 or two modifiers by +1 Level 5 - Extra attack / whatever else cool and you get +1 to your proficiency bonus. So even at level 5, if you improve your "to hit roll" by +1 thanks to the stat boost at level 1, and then your proficiency bonus adds +1 to it too, you're at an extra +2 to hit over level one, plus you get all your other cool poo poo too, presuming you've chosen a class that gets cool poo poo. Our group hasn't got past level 3 yet, the DM likes dragging it out for some reason, but it seems to me it's not until after level 4 when things start getting really interesting anyway. It's just a shame there seems to be so many classes where you don't actually get more options to actually do things when you level up, and instead it's just bonuses to what you were able to do pretty much from level 1 instead.
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Feb 16, 2015 01:28
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We're also toying with a family tree of PCs so to speak. We want death to be something that can happen to a PC, but we don't want everyone stating over from level 1 if they die. We want alt's built up too, either for just a change of pace, or for backups, or as I think I mentioned earlier, to go save dead/dying main characters. So we are toying with, if you get 1000 xp, you put that on the guy you got it with, then you get an additional 1000xp to put into another character (or characters). Thoughts?
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Feb 16, 2015 01:37
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Elendil004 posted:We're also toying with a family tree of PCs so to speak. We want death to be something that can happen to a PC, but we don't want everyone stating over from level 1 if they die. We want alt's built up too, either for just a change of pace, or for backups, or as I think I mentioned earlier, to go save dead/dying main characters. It sounds basically like what 2nd ed AD&D did with Dark Sun, where instead of making one character, you made a "group" of characters that followed each other, XP-wise, but only one of them was on scene at any given time, with downtime being points where you could swap them out, or, of course, if your main character died. It was a decent idea, and if you run a high-lethality, no-punches-pulled game, then I could definitely see it being almost necessary. I think the main issue is just that the game has to be built in such a way as to accomodate such switch-outs, during long expeditions or something, it wouldn't really make sense, and I suppose you'd also need to come up with a reason why the PC's don't just being their entire "family tree" to brute force challenges with a small army, unless the players are willing to accept it from a gameplay perspective without needing it justified from a "fluff" perspective.
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Feb 16, 2015 01:57
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Elendil004 posted:We're also toying with a family tree of PCs so to speak. We want death to be something that can happen to a PC, but we don't want everyone stating over from level 1 if they die. We want alt's built up too, either for just a change of pace, or for backups, or as I think I mentioned earlier, to go save dead/dying main characters. Sounds s bit like oldschool Dark Sun, as mentioned. Also sounds a lot like Hackmaster's "protege" system, which worked like insurance. Effectively (and with many fiddly rules) you could funnel some of your earned XP to a backup character who you could "activate" if you died - so you had a choice between "level faster" and "make sure I don't have to start at level 1 when I die". Now, I sure wouldn't port that directly into D&D, but your "you get xp, then extra xp to spend on backup characters" sounds like a really workable system. You could just as easily do it by having a group of characters of your main dude's level though, without fiddling round with extra xp. Especially since Next doesn't have per-class xp requirements like 2nd ed. e: If you have trouble fitting that into your fiction, I can't help you beyond "make something up that works". Like, if you're all on a ship for 6 months, you're gonna have trouble "activating" a dude who's not there, unless you're cool with saying "eh... he was there all along. Guess he got real seasick and hasn't left his cabin, but it's cleared up now". But really, what would you do if there wasn't a prepared backup? Just force the player to sit it out until it "made sense" for his new guy to show up? Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 02:15
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AlphaDog posted:Effectively (and with many fiddly rules) you could funnel some of your earned XP to a backup character who you could "activate" if you died - so you had a choice between "level faster" and "make sure I don't have to start at level 1 when I die".
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Feb 16, 2015 02:23
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