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The game writes itself as being difficult and unforgiving when you ARE using torches. The fact that it isn't is a problem, since I'm pretty sure the developers want it to be difficult even when you are playing the way the game wants. Plus several people doing no torch runs have said it isn't even that much harder.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:01
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Yeah I forgot torches a couple times and it turned out almost easier. I got way more treasure and I was wiping out the monsters before they could react due to crazy crits.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:03
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I'm not sure what the logic behind bonus crits at dark is in the first place.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:03
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Anatharon posted:I'm not sure what the logic behind bonus crits at dark is in the first place. Desperation out of fear of darkness?
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Feb 16, 2015 21:04
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At least as far as I can tell the ruins are much harder than the weld or the warrens. If only because there are more enemies with high damage, high resistances, and good slot composition.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:05
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Anatharon posted:I'm not sure what the logic behind bonus crits at dark is in the first place. Backstabs since you can't see the enemy coming? Harder to avoid hits? Something like that. 
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Feb 16, 2015 21:07
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Anatharon posted:I'm not sure what the logic behind bonus crits at dark is in the first place. you can do things like sneak up to the enemy and give them a stealthy ultrasound to be sure you are getting the kidney before you stab
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Feb 16, 2015 21:08
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Yeah, I don't see no-torch as a challenge strategy, it's just an alternate strategy. I still think newbies should use torches but once you have the roster and trinkets for no torch it's a good choice.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:14
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Does anyone have an issue with the game detecting your resolution? When I try to run it in 1080 the entire game is offset down and to the right, preventing me from clicking on any of the menu items.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:19
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:Does anyone have an issue with the game detecting your resolution? When I try to run it in 1080 the entire game is offset down and to the right, preventing me from clicking on any of the menu items. This happens from time to time to me. I'm using two monitors and it usually happens when I switch one on while playing on the other. Restarting the game usually fixes it.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:36
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I think the game's difficulty is in a really good place. I run my group with high light and don't sperg out over optimal bullshit, and am having a great time. Sure it's not super punishing 15 weeks in, but it's still dangerous. I think for the majority of people it might still be too hard, but that fits how the devs are describing it. This thread is full of posters who are spreadsheet smashing the game, and I really don't think you guys saying you want it harder are who the devs are targeting. Go play nethack or whatever old man nostalgia you're talking about.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:23
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Combat, at the moment, in my experience, feels manageable but also threatening. The danger comes more from getting worn down in aggregate than each and every encounter possibly being the end of my guys. Whether you think thats how the game should be keyed is a different issue altogether. Personally, I like it. e. so what do the big tentacle-type enemies do exactly? They look like they should be fairly menacing but I've only ever seen them use that Weaken Prey attack for about 7 damage and then die because they have practically no HP. paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 22:27
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I'm currently finishing every dungeon at nearly full HP and little to no stress so something is up. I'm not even a min-maxer, I'm just kinda throwing together parties I think are cool, experimenting with classes, running out of torches. Nearly died on the swine king though. He kept one-shot critting every person he hit, so every turn my cleric had to heal everyone up, which created a good amount a stress. Was the first time in a long time I actually had to send someone to a de-stressing building.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:32
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The Little Kielbasa posted:The lunge chain is a thing of beauty when it goes right, but how do you ensure that your robbers go in the right order? I keep my highest speed in the 3 slot, second highest in the 2, slowest in the 1, but it seems like half the time the 1 or 2 goes first and can't lunge. The alternative is to put the cultist/vestal in the #1 slot, but then they can't heal. Is it just a matter of developing bigger speed differentials between my robbers or am I just missing something? Yes, I put my cultist/vestal in slot 1 unless I need the healing, and even so starting the battle like that tends to be find, since the cultist will work his way to the back if slot 3 lunges before slot 4. As for lunge chaining, that is mostly luck. Unless you get lucky with afflictions/quirks to spread their speed. However due to the way speed works, if your ever out of order for a lunge chain, lunging with everyone who can will put you back in the right order.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:59
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Anatharon posted:I'm not sure what the logic behind bonus crits at dark is in the first place. Crits make your characters talk. Dark runs are more thematic and should have your characters talking more. Boom.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:13
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Anatharon posted:I'm not sure what the logic behind bonus crits at dark is in the first place. The same logic that means monsters are more surprised when you shuffle up to them with three burning torches in each hand
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Feb 16, 2015 23:23
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Chard posted:The same logic that means monsters are more surprised when you shuffle up to them with three burning torches in each hand This would probably be my only critique of the game so far. The light mechanic should be based on a suprise event only. Crit seems to skew the favor of the low light run a little too much. The surprise mechanic is too RNG dependent. Hi light level should give a much better chance to surprise the enemy while low light should have a very good chance for enemies to surprise you. The tooltips make it seem like this is already in place but the RNG seems to show otherwise. In other words, remove the crit from low light, increase the surprise modifiers to the RNG for surprise event. (high light favors greatly the player, low light favors the enemy) This makes low light much more challenging for the increased rewards.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:30
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paranoid randroid posted:Combat, at the moment, in my experience, feels manageable but also threatening. The danger comes more from getting worn down in aggregate than each and every encounter possibly being the end of my guys. Whether you think thats how the game should be keyed is a different issue altogether. Personally, I like it. Really? I've never been worn down from a dungeon. Combat has always been fine until one just goes tits-up and suddenly the enemies get to go first, and all crit. Then they just seem to get infinite turns, because turn order is whack, until all my dudes are dead or an death's door and when I finally get a turn they miss.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:41
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Chard posted:The same logic that means monsters are more surprised when you shuffle up to them with three burning torches in each hand Well yeah, have you tried holding three burning torches in one hand?
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Feb 17, 2015 00:50
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:Does anyone have an issue with the game detecting your resolution? When I try to run it in 1080 the entire game is offset down and to the right, preventing me from clicking on any of the menu items. Yes the game is unplayable on microsoft surface tablets unless you use the -size parameter with a resolution to get it into windowed mode initially. Do this under Launch Parameters in steam and try -size 1366 768 or whatever.
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Feb 17, 2015 01:01
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Nuebot posted:Really? I've never been worn down from a dungeon. Combat has always been fine until one just goes tits-up and suddenly the enemies get to go first, and all crit. Then they just seem to get infinite turns, because turn order is whack, until all my dudes are dead or an death's door and when I finally get a turn they miss. That's just my experience. One crit isn't a big deal, one crit per combat across an entire mission is much more significant. That might just be how I play.
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Feb 17, 2015 01:08
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Surprise rounds for the player are really, really powerful. As long as you don't get some really bad rng, it is usually a free combat straight up. They shouldn't occur more than they currently do unless you're giving something up to get them in my opinion. As some other people have said, low light doesn't give *that* much increased crit chance, it mostly just makes up for the extra stress generated from the low light exploring. I think people think the effect is bigger, since the loot bonus is pretty big. Low light basically works out to the enemy having a better surprise chance, damage, and accuracy in exchange for you getting better loot. If you're playing well, you can handle getting surprised and are eliminating the high damage/stress threat quickly already. It basically punishes bad play even more than the game does normally, and makes it harder to recover if things go bad. I think this illustrates why the game can be hard and easy at the same time, just like a lot of roguelikes. Once you learn the game, and how to approach various situations, you are actually pretty safe most of the time. In something like crawl, once you get past the early game (or even through the whole game once you're good at the game) as long as you play smart and careful you can almost always beat the game. In darkest dungeon, as long as you set your party up somewhat smartly and play carefully, you can usually beat a given dungeon. A lot of the suggestions I've seen people talk about in the thread are bad because they really only make the game more punishing for new/bad/unlucky players, and honestly the game is hard enough for them already. I still think that we should wait until we get the darkest dungeon before trying to "fix" the difficulty, because depending on how that runs having the balance be where it is at might be needed. That said, here are a couple examples that I think would increase difficulty but not for the new player, without changing how stuff fundamentally works. In the higher dungeons increase the length of hallways. If a level 3 dungeon had hallways of length 5 sometimes, and a level 5 always length 5, that increases the difficulty by a decent amount without changing how any of the working parts function by making you cover more ground (more chances for bad stuff to happen) to finish any given quest. For low light, increase the chance for the more difficult enemy layouts the darker it gets, once you're at 0 light it is just the really dangerous ones all the time. Two things I think they should look into is something to do with heirlooms when you're finishing your building upgrades, and to look into removing the cost reduction upgrades and turning them into something else. For the fans of more customization, it would be pretty neat if there were different upgrade paths you could use on buildings, and let people reset the building if they want (don't keep levels to give a place to sink more heirlooms). Could be anything from the blacksmith letting you improve 1 stat on armor more than base (upgrade branching being different things, like dodge or hp or resists), to the guild letting you upgrade one aspect of a skill to being able to rig the gambling hall so it costs less but recovers less stress(you're fleecing the hero).
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Feb 17, 2015 01:09
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lunatikfringe posted:In other words, remove the crit from low light, increase the surprise modifiers to the RNG for surprise event. (high light favors greatly the player, low light favors the enemy) This makes low light much more challenging for the increased rewards.
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Feb 17, 2015 01:11
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paranoid randroid posted:That's just my experience. One crit isn't a big deal, one crit per combat across an entire mission is much more significant. That might just be how I play. It's never just one crit when I play. I frequently run into entire battles of crits and that's without even being surprised. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but the game just loves to give the enemy the initiative and let them crit everyone every attack. Basically any time I go to the ruins it feels like some hosed up final fantasy rom hack.
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Feb 17, 2015 02:17
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Just got this game after watching Dodger stream it multiple times. It's really good, but really hard. I didn't know what I was doing the first go around and kind of screwed myself to the point where I had no money to de-stress my peeps, so I couldn't really do anything. I started a second file and everything is going WAY smoother now that I have a better idea of how everything works. You have to be careful, and man I underestimated buffing (I NEVER buff in turn based games). Some of my dudes crit like hell. I wanna give two big props to the narration and the animation. The narrator is awesome, and he really makes the fights feel rewarding when you kill someone. "A devastating blow!" "Press the advantage, give them no quarter!". It's very satisfying in a Bastion sort of way. And the animation, I was initially kind of "eh" about the art style because it had a very... flash stiff style with the movements. But it ends up working really well, kind of in the way Hearthstone works even though there's no actual creatures on the board fighting. The way the camera zooms in, and the dynamic pose they use, and the sound effects, all form really satisfying attacks and killing blows. They make a good choice of not having the characters do all that much in-between moving. The walking animations are probably the most they move, otherwise it's just really good use of zooming in the camera and having a great dynamic pose. The music is getting a little repetitive though  I might turn that off soon and just have other poo poo playing
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Feb 17, 2015 03:40
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Nuebot posted:It's never just one crit when I play. I frequently run into entire battles of crits and that's without even being surprised. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but the game just loves to give the enemy the initiative and let them crit everyone every attack. Basically any time I go to the ruins it feels like some hosed up final fantasy rom hack. I'm trying to guess the best hamlet upgrade path. My first game was spent upgrading too many of the destressing activities at first, which sucked away money for the guild and armor/weapons. I think I would put way more of the heirlooms and money into upgrading the guild and skills before anything else. Maybe after the the stagecoach.
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Feb 17, 2015 03:47
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lunatikfringe posted:This would probably be my only critique of the game so far. The light mechanic should be based on a suprise event only. Crit seems to skew the favor of the low light run a little too much. The surprise mechanic is too RNG dependent. Hi light level should give a much better chance to surprise the enemy while low light should have a very good chance for enemies to surprise you. The tooltips make it seem like this is already in place but the RNG seems to show otherwise. I feel like light isn't so much a challenge thing, as much as a risk-for-reward idea. High light puts you into some relative certainty and predictability, lower light amps up the risks and rewards.
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Feb 17, 2015 03:49
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I made another big balance/changes/suggestions post on the Steam forums. http://steamcommunity.com/app/262060/discussions/2/618453594762168845/Allaniis posted:An opening 4 Man Howl Crit is the worst. "Here, take 40 stress for everyone!" What I generally suggest is that you spend pages on the coach, portraits on the Bar (just the Bar, not the whole tavern), and busts on the Sanitarium. Once you have the Bar (just the Bar!) and the stagecoach maxed out, switch to guild hall and blacksmith. The idea is that the Bar is just there to destress the few guys you have who are worth it, the Sanitarium is there to get rid of the occasional rare quirk that would trash an otherwise good character, and you don't really need blacksmith and guild hall upgrades until you hit the level 3 dungeons anyway. Macaluso posted:Just got this game after watching Dodger stream it multiple times. It's really good, but really hard. I didn't know what I was doing the first go around and kind of screwed myself to the point where I had no money to de-stress my peeps, so I couldn't really do anything. You might want to take a look at the guide I wrote -- it's basically "this thread, the guide version" and has a lot of non-obvious-on-first-playthrough pointers and tips. http://steamcommunity.com//sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=385431020 Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 03:51
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Macaluso posted:Just got this game after watching Dodger stream it multiple times. It's really good, but really hard. I didn't know what I was doing the first go around and kind of screwed myself to the point where I had no money to de-stress my peeps, so I couldn't really do anything. Don't do this. Instead just disband your men and recruit some more. Go into dungeons and don't worry about your stress, our outfitting a new crew. Just go in, get what ever loot you can and get out, or if your lucky and in a good position try and complete the run. Disband your now stressed out crew. Repeat until you have enough gold that it becomes worthwhile to start spending $ on completing dungeons. If you restart you lose what investments you've made to your hamlet. Your only making the game harder for your self. Allaniis posted:I'm trying to guess the best hamlet upgrade path. My first game was spent upgrading too many of the destressing activities at first, which sucked away money for the guild and armor/weapons. I think I would put way more of the heirlooms and money into upgrading the guild and skills before anything else. Maybe after the the stagecoach. Destressing shouldn't be used until you have guys you've started investing in. If you just have a level 0-1 crew theres no point in de-stressing them after the run, unless you plan on keeping them around. As for upgrades, 1 lvl of stagecoach, then your next priority should be skills for the higher accuarcy, and armor for the greater defense.
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Feb 17, 2015 03:53
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Macaluso posted:The music is getting a little repetitive though Jackard fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 04:17
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Legacyspy posted:Don't do this. Instead just disband your men and recruit some more.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:18
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Legacyspy posted:Destressing shouldn't be used until you have guys you've started investing in. If you just have a level 0-1 crew theres no point in de-stressing them after the run, unless you plan on keeping them around. Speaking of crews, I'm not sure how I feel about the roster size. I feel like it's a weird size. On one hand, it's too large, so I don't really feel urgency when I lose someone. On the other, I don't have enough space to hold multiples of all the classes to run some gimmick comps, like Quadsader, Dodge Crew (4 Grave Robbers) or Leper Colony.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:24
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Jackard posted:In case you haven't heard them yet, several of the tracks have a "desperate" version that plays whenever you reach low torchlight... might also play at low party health but I'm not sure. Are they in the game files somewhere? I took a quick peek at the folder in the steamapps directory and didn't find anything, but I wasn't very thorough.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:27
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Even though I know it's the right thing to do 90% of the time, it still feels really unnatural dismissing [rand_name] the [rand_class]. It's the game's fault for giving them such good lines and stuff!
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Feb 17, 2015 04:37
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GenericOverusedName posted:Are they in the game files somewhere? I took a quick peek at the folder in the steamapps directory and didn't find anything, but I wasn't very thorough. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzozKEl_r7s Jackard fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 04:39
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As annoying as it was starting off a combat by eating two goblet of bullshit crits to my crusader, it was pretty cool that instead of making GBS threads his pants he went Courageous or something and started going HAM on the skeleton things. I didn't even know that was a thing, I'd been told it was just 100% stress and you go crazy
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Feb 17, 2015 04:50
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Retreating from combat just triggered a scout check! I didn't realize that was possible.
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Feb 17, 2015 05:04
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For upgrading, I'd suggest that after a couple stagecoach upgrades so you're getting 5 or so guys a week and have 9-11 slots, upgrade the guild and blacksmith so your rank1 guys can learn the 2nd level of their skills. There is a pretty big increase in effectiveness, and around that point you might have guys you want to keep around. I personally like to upgrade a church place for sanity stuff, and only use the sanitarium for really debilitating stuff early on. No need to rush a bunch into guild/smith, just unlock the next level when your A team is about to hit their next level, focus otherwise on the rest of your town.
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Feb 17, 2015 05:07
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Now that I've maxed the trinket lady, I'm getting ancestral trinkets in her stock for cheap basically every week. Some of them aren't worth it, but there are some super good'uns in there.
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Feb 17, 2015 05:20
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:As annoying as it was starting off a combat by eating two goblet of bullshit crits to my crusader, it was pretty cool that instead of making GBS threads his pants he went Courageous or something and started going HAM on the skeleton things. I didn't even know that was a thing, I'd been told it was just 100% stress and you go crazy
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Feb 17, 2015 05:25
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