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Fog Tripper posted:Stayed with parents a few days, got stoned, came home stoned to find kids shacked up in her place, gets slut advice from 12 year olds, decides shes not so much a lesbian anymore and wants to get jim back. Now that's Fox Television! Fog Tripper posted:Worst undeed. 
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Feb 17, 2015 07:37
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 05:17 |
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I have stuck with this show through Balloon Man and Fish's completely ineffective 'secret weapon' and seemingly countless Barbara scenes, but god drat this new Fish plot might be what does me in. These are the most rock loving ineffectual henchmen to ever hench. Look, I've solved this problem and have only thought about it for five seconds tops - "Oh, you guys wanna rebel? Okay, cool, have fun not eating for a week." The basement prisoners have no upper hand whatsoever, and the guards are negotiating with them? Why? WHY?! If they had just SHOT FISH with THE GUNS THAT THEY WERE HOLDING, you've only lost one prisoner, and boom! No more rebellion! I would gladly take a dozen Balloon Men if it meant this loving Fish plot would just end. I don't care if it's ever even resolved. It can just disappear Chuck Cunningham style. Anyway, the Joker thing was dumb, Barbara is dumb, and if it weren't for Bruce and Alfred I don't think I'd still be watching this show. Depressio111117 fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 08:07
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I was just popping in and out of this week's episode, but I liked the fake kid-joker. Guess I'm in the minority there.
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Feb 17, 2015 08:26
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I thought the Joker-esque kid was okay, though I'm firmly of the opinion that we should never see any origin for the Joker (or have it be clear it is coming from a VERY unreliable narrator) and still hold out hope it was just a complete red herring and he was just some random psychotic kid who grew up among carnies. That said, the worst parts of his performance came where he tried to go for the iconic crazy eyes smile, because it really seemed like the actor was putting everything into trying to get it and the laugh spot on and so the rest of his acting went out the window while he carefully contorted his face in just the right way. I really, really like the Dr. Leslie Thompkins character, and I keep hoping against hope that every time Barbara stands gaping at Jim moving on with his life after SHE dumped him, that it is the last time we're going to see her and she just disappears from the story. Speaking of which, what the hell happened to Montoya?
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Feb 17, 2015 09:09
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The actress who plays Montoya did an interview recently where she talks about things that haven't been shown yet, so I'm assuming she'll either be back before this season ends or be a bigger part of the next one. Hope so too, she doesn't deserve to be pulled into the ruin by Barbara.
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Feb 17, 2015 09:15
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What's even crazier than the lack of Montoya is the fact that the guy who plays her parter Crispus Allen is also one of the 12 people on the payroll as a series regular. And he's only been in...four or five scenes tops? And he hasn't been seen in at least six episodes. He's appeared way less frequently than actors who are billed as "special guest stars" like Penguin's mom or whoever.
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Feb 17, 2015 09:37
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Not gonna lie, I would watch an entire episode of Barbara being a hot mess, taking dating advice from two street kids and watching Jim be happy with her mopey eyes.
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Feb 17, 2015 09:57
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NowonSA posted:I was just popping in and out of this week's episode, but I liked the fake kid-joker. Guess I'm in the minority there. Yeah, I agree. I think he did a good job, there's just no treatment of the character that'll make fans happy. This actor did what he could. But you're talking about a character actor on a one-off episode of this TV show, and comparing it to the job done by award-winning film actors in giant-budget features.
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Feb 17, 2015 10:04
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Babs is hot, and she's got style. I'm happy to watch her life collapse. We all know who she is and what that means, so she's not going anywhere. More legs for sure though.
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Feb 17, 2015 10:06
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Xealot posted:Yeah, I agree. I think he did a good job, there's just no treatment of the character that'll make fans happy. For me it really comes back to one of the major issues with this show - it's very deliberately and explicitly about Gotham City BEFORE Batman showed up, and that both means that Gordon's impact has to be (or should be) limited, and that many of the key villains can't be TOO developed because for the most part they really only came to prominence after Batman showed up. While guys like Riddler make a certain kind of sense, and Penguin makes an enormous amount of sense, characters like the Joker really don't, especially the Joker since he's usually framed in direct opposition to Batman as a character. The show should be more focused on the organized crime and the corruption, but while they play a lot of lip service to that, they still seem to be obsessed with the idea of fanservice in terms of shoving in every character they can. Remember how Harvey Dent shows up for basically one episode in the first half of the season and he's already mentally unbalanced and showing signs of being willing to act immorally to get the results he wants... that's from his very first episode. Where can you really go from there with the character? You've already taken a supposedly incorruptible character whose moment of change is such a big deal and established that he's got feet of clay from the very beginning. If you keep him incorruptible, then you've basically just got another version of the main character of the show - Jim Gordon. The obvious thing to do would be to NOT include Harvey as a character at all, at least not this early into the show, but this show was ALWAYS going to have Two-Face show up in an episode regardless of if it made sense or not. Then he's gone, and basically had zero impact on the show.
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Feb 17, 2015 10:25
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Jerusalem posted:You've already taken a supposedly incorruptible character [Harvey Dent] whose moment of change is such a big deal and established that he's got feet of clay from the very beginning. I recall the Batman TAS version of the character being less this way, to be fair. He's sort of mentally unbalanced from the beginning, such that his disfigurement merely pushes him over the edge. But in general, I agree with you. The premise of Gotham is interesting on paper, but it also totally hogties the end product due to the necessary constraints of No Batman. The entire draw of the show is its connections to familiar Batman stuff, so it's in this weird place where it HAS to show you the rogues gallery without *actually* doing it. The show is essentially built on blue balls, which will eventually drive popular interest away. I said this earlier in the thread, and still feel this way: I wish they'd killed off Bruce Wayne. As much as I like the actor who plays Bruce, it'd solve a lot of this show's problems if it was already understood to be an alternate universe with an unwritten future. Like, imagine a story where Gordon grows unhinged by this death of a prominent family. Or the city deteriorates even faster in light of the Wayne dynasty ending. Or, maybe Thomas or Martha survive, while Bruce does not, and one of them copes with grief differently than Bruce does. In any of these cases, the show could do relevant things with the plot, and use familiar characters in substantive ways, because there wouldn't be this messianic sense that Batman Is Coming. Anything could happen and the stakes would become real. Also, Gordon being the main character would feel more appropriate. In a Gotham where there's no Bruce Wayne, the only good man left is Jim Gordon.
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Feb 17, 2015 11:48
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No Bruce? 
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Feb 17, 2015 11:59
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 A little something for the Fish haters.
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Feb 17, 2015 12:38
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I thought fish was pretty good this episode. I also really liked joker kid, and it looks like we're swinging back towards a more bruce heavy plotline, which is always good since Bruce is still the best part of this show.
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Feb 17, 2015 15:10
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Was it just me or was the WE boardroom the same set they used in The Dark Knight Rises? And I loved the beginning with Barbara returning home to find Selena and Ivy. With everything that's going on, she just accepts them, and I thought, "Oh, this is a new Barbara." And then she's taking fashion advice from two kids later, and I thought "Nope, same old Barbara."
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Feb 17, 2015 15:16
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Zsaz is always fun to watch, and I like how the not truly subtle implication that he's done some vile things to Butch played out. That was probably the best thing of that episode for me. I don't have a horse in the race to the Joker, and thought the kid did a decent job channeling the guys that came before him in that role. However, I really wonder if they know what to do with him. They filed that bullet so to speak, so unless they're going to push him back into the ether what's the point? They didn't even give him a victory lap after that final interrogation. If they don't bring him back for random "Hannibal Lecter" moments, what's the point of introducing him in the first place? It really begs the question of how long they can drag this series out, if they keep revealing all these A-List bad guys systematically with zero build up? Also, has it always been implied that the Joker and Wayne were mostly the same age? Finally, is it a given that the not Lucy Liu lady and the other smirky guy on the board of Wayne Enterprise are probably in bed with Ra's Al Ghul?
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Feb 17, 2015 15:41
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hatelull posted:
Nicholson was 14 years older than Keaton, and Romero was 21 years older than West. So, no
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Feb 17, 2015 15:44
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bbf2 posted:What's even crazier than the lack of Montoya is the fact that the guy who plays her parter Crispus Allen is also one of the 12 people on the payroll as a series regular. And he's only been in...four or five scenes tops? And he hasn't been seen in at least six episodes. He's appeared way less frequently than actors who are billed as "special guest stars" like Penguin's mom or whoever. That has to be the single best pay check in all of TV, he has only said like 5 words yet I'm guessing he gets a paycheck every week. I love the fact however that Alfred is letting a 10 year old vote his shares and threaten his Board of Directors publicly in a "you have 8 years still I'm the boss" movie.
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Feb 17, 2015 15:48
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Davros1 posted:Nicholson was 14 years older than Keaton, and Romero was 21 years older than West. So, no Ok, but that's based on a TV show and a movie which took obvious liberties with the lore right? I mean, if the writers are pulling from the comics for what they consider cannon Joker has always been the unknown right? He's whatever is needed at the time. Are their any set rules that have to be followed for him other than at some point he gets clown make up and a forced constant creepy smile?
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Feb 17, 2015 15:58
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hatelull posted:Ok, but that's based on TV shows which themselves took obviously liberties with the lore right? I mean, if the writers are pulling from the comics for what they consider cannon Joker has always been the unknown right? He's whatever is needed at the time. Are their any set rules that have to be followed for him other than at some point he gets clown make up and a forced constant creepy smile? Yeah, they're not pulling from the comics for canon. Nor should they. TV's a different medium. And even in the comics, he doesn't have a forced smile. And the lore's constantly changing.
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Feb 17, 2015 16:01
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Jerusalem posted:For me it really comes back to one of the major issues with this show - it's very deliberately and explicitly about Gotham City BEFORE Batman showed up, and that both means that Gordon's impact has to be (or should be) limited, and that many of the key villains can't be TOO developed because for the most part they really only came to prominence after Batman showed up. While guys like Riddler make a certain kind of sense, and Penguin makes an enormous amount of sense, characters like the Joker really don't, especially the Joker since he's usually framed in direct opposition to Batman as a character. The show should be more focused on the organized crime and the corruption, but while they play a lot of lip service to that, they still seem to be obsessed with the idea of fanservice in terms of shoving in every character they can. I wonder if the show was produced with the intention of burning up fairly quickly. They have barely made it through one season without plenty of filler. How they keep this going for another 46+ episodes is beyond me.
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Feb 17, 2015 16:08
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God this loving show, I don't know why I watch it. What the gently caress is up with the GCPD where any random chick can walk in off the street and head right for the men's locker room? Oh hey blondie, what's that? Gordon? Yeah he's in the men's room, go on in. Don't kid yourself; Joker-kid is absolutely meant to be the Joker and will be until either they change their mind or come to their senses. It's not a red-herring or anything intelligently plotted out, it's THE JOKER AS A KID! WOW! Zsasz is a good part of the show. I really feel they've nailed a better interpretation of the character than the comics, kind of the same way TAS had a better take on Freeze. So kudos to their staff of writing monkeys for that. Jim and Leslie have awesome chemistry and it's the most interesting Jim has been since the show started. What a goddamn ludicrous show, I can't wait for next weeks episode. 
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Feb 17, 2015 16:29
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Require More Fire posted:Jim and Leslie have awesome chemistry and it's the most interesting Jim has been since the show started. Agreed, but they're cheating a bit by just replacing Bullock and making her the buddy-cop for an episode. Also, how the hell do they not go to Ed for help with Tio Salamanca's riddle?
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Feb 17, 2015 18:26
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They really missed a chance to go all the way and just have Gordon yell, "alright, somebody get this little JOKER out of here" while zooming in on the kid's face. Ideally they'd do that once an episode with somebody in ways that make increasingly less sense, so that by season three they'd be saying poo poo like, "boy, you're a real CALENDAR MAN for knowing the date today, young man!" It would make me enjoy the show much more.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:47
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I'm waiting for someone to respond to one of Nigma's lines of dialog with a follow-up question that begins, "Well, RIDDLE me this, Nigma: ...."
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Feb 17, 2015 18:50
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How about an episode where he discovers the lair of a murdered Matthew Lesko?
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Feb 17, 2015 18:54
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Remember when Fish charges another guy in her cabin on the boat and the show ends. What came after that? I feel like I missed an episode between that and how she got in the facility.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:08
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LolitaSama posted:Remember when Fish charges another guy in her cabin on the boat and the show ends. What came after that? I feel like I missed an episode between that and how she got in the facility. The guy knocked her punk rear end out, obviously.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:19
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I didn't mind the kid as Young Joker. There's really no where you can go with the character that won't feel like a retread. Hamill, Ledger and Nicholson are all iconic in their own way, so he's pretty much gently caress no matter which way he decides to play it. Did they CGI his head to make it massive, though? It looked really loving huge, especially when you saw his profile with the other actors in a scene together.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:35
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What they need to do is do a new Batman show and cast Anthony Misiano as The Joker.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:56
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Yeah, I really wish that they didn't touch the Joker at all, but honestly the kid did ok with it for what he had to work with it. So who's ready for all the drama with Barbara being mad at Gordon for moving on after she slept with the woman who was trying to get Jim thrown in jail. 
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Feb 17, 2015 20:57
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Am I wrong or was Penguin's mom singing just fine, albeit for a crazy old bat, and it was actually the pianist playing off-key that made her sound like poo poo?
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Feb 17, 2015 21:09
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One thing that I really really really liked about last night's episode was the circus scene. It just re-enforces Gotham's idea of not settling for an exact period of time, and the whole thing felt timely when they could have gone for a more modern Cirque de soleil rip off. I appreciated that, as well as everything else that had to do with the circus (including the hilariously stupid family feud over a horse). The Joker stuff was effective but pretty stupid. Doubt it will have any ramifications either as they are also going to do an episode with the Red Mask gang and I don't see how they can bring the kid into that (at least yet - maybe something planned for season 2). The Fish stuff was pretty stupid in the way the show tries so hard to show her as some cold calculating manipulative mastermind when the truth is that everyone around her are just idiots.
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Feb 17, 2015 21:17
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I hope Barbara forms her own gang, with Selena and Ivy, only to have Selena and Ivy take it out from underneath her.
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Feb 17, 2015 21:25
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Madkal posted:One thing that I really really really liked about last night's episode was the circus scene. It just re-enforces Gotham's idea of not settling for an exact period of time, and the whole thing felt timely when they could have gone for a more modern Cirque de soleil rip off. I appreciated that, as well as everything else that had to do with the circus (including the hilariously stupid family feud over a horse). The circus stuff was great because that kind of circus is awesome, screw Cirque.
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Feb 17, 2015 21:30
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In the midst of all that amazing nonsense last night I completely forgot about Zombie Butch. On the one hand Butch and Penguin: Buddies! sounds wonderful but on the other I can't see this ending anyway other than Butch remembering he loves Fish or whatever and turning on Penguin.Davros1 posted:I hope Barbara forms her own gang, with Selena and Ivy, only to have Selena and Ivy take it out from underneath her. And then she spends 6 episodes being pouty and stoned.
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Feb 17, 2015 21:42
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it's the little moments in this show that get me to watch each week, like Penguin going and bottling a guy for booing his mother, or Leslie and Jim having supper and Jim's "oh my God this is amazing". I honestly thought when he was like "you want to go NOW?!" I had thought he was thinking more "but...the food, so good, want to finish  " instead of "it's dark and cold and I'm still not 100% on thisThought the kid did a good play on Joker but in some ways it felt a little heavy handed at the end but, hey, that's Gotham for ya
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Feb 17, 2015 21:54
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Davros1 posted:I hope Barbara forms her own gang, with Selena and Ivy, only to have Selena and Ivy take it out from underneath her. No no no, Barbara insists on forming a gang with Selena and Ivy over their strident objections, then tearfully declares she can't be involved in a gang anymore, then she becomes horrified when she learns they brought somebody else into the gang after she left.
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Feb 17, 2015 22:16
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pookerbug posted:Am I wrong or was Penguin's mom singing just fine, albeit for a crazy old bat, and it was actually the pianist playing off-key that made her sound like poo poo? At the beginning, her singing was a little off, but it seemed to tune up pretty quickly. This could easily be due to bad editing: in jazz singing, it's not uncommon for the soloist to wander into an area that, out of context, sounds horribly off-key. In context, it works (if you like jazz); out-of-context, it is hit and miss. Likewise, accompanying instruments in jazz tend to stray, but not too awful far. I think it was the fact that the scene started right there that made it much more noticeable.
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Feb 17, 2015 22:17
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Penguin Mom wasn't bad, wasn't good, but I just took it as the "crowd" being bored because they don't look like the kind of people who would listen to that kind of music. Seriously, where did Penguin's clientele come from anyways?
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Feb 17, 2015 22:19
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