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Suspicious Dish posted:Didn't they all get super demotivated in the latest Broken Age documentary thing to the point where they're just planning on dropping the second half? Great Rumbler posted:I'm not privy to the inner workings of Double Fine, but somebody there must know what they're doing to keep the ship afloat through nearly 15 years of storms.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:11
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I really wonder how bad the who Trenched being renamed to Iron Brigade screwed over Double Fine. That game got a TON of press when it was Trenched and the name Iron Brigade is just so boring compared to what that game actually is.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:17
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RightClickSaveAs posted:No, they didn't say anything like this at all. Where did you get that from? Friend at work told me that in the video after they launched, everyone seemed so relieved and also, like, "man, that was hell, I really don't want to do it again". Lunchtime conversation.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:17
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I can't see this myself because the update's only visible to backers, but apparently the dispute between the "Last Year" kickstarter and the holders of the Friday the 13th license has been resolved with only minor aesthetic changes to the game. So, uh, yay and all that.
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Feb 17, 2015 05:05
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Mr Underhill posted:Also, I don't think I exaggerate when saying all post-Broken age kickstarted games owe a great debt of gratitude to Double Fine. Even though I backed Broken Age (which was an unamed vague project when the KS launched), I'd say that Double Fine's KS had multiple issues even when it was running (meaning it had issues in addition to those that became apparent a few months/ years later), From projects I have backed, I'd go as far as to say that not only it was one of the worst, but it also set a precedent were apparently anyone famous enough in the industry could launch a KS with little to show for their actual project. But people were too enthusiastic to suporrt a new adventure game from Double Fine - personally i think that, that's were they got the largest percentage of the funding; not the documentary thing albeit being the main and most well defined feature from that campaign. Did it benefit the game projects that launched around that era (up to a few months later)? Sure. Mostly in the sense that it seems to bring in more ambitious project creators and/or make them less... shy to ask for quite a significant sum of money for their work. Does it still have a positive impact in game projects launched on the KS? Most definately not. Given the actual outcome for the project (looking past the figures they got for funding), it's definately not the success story that Double Fine was aiming for;* and they have struggled with the funding of the project for moe than a year and a half now, while people come to realise (or should have anyway) that maybe this publisher free thing is not always going to work to the project's benefit, and the odds are heavily against it if the respective KS campaign does not meet certain standards (and possiby even then) that Double Fine's certainly lacked. * Though, to be fair, it's certainly not only Double Fine's case that made people disillusioned with the platform. Lots of the more ambitious projects that followed either outright failed, or failed to deliver what promised (and went back on promises - so that Molyneux RPS interview really was too harsh on him about the way he/they used KickStarter, when he is simply just another case from multiple ones), or are in development way too long after what they estimated (including making dumb decisions mid-development like switching game engines, or going episodic to ... "deliver more! deliver everything as envisioned!".
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Feb 17, 2015 05:24
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I'm not necessarily referring to DF here, I think some of you guys are way too focused on the business side of things and that's weird from the perspective of a gamer. I mean, sure, crowdfunding ultimately boils down to seeing the ugly/hard/sometimes better left unseen part of making games, but focusing on it is missing the point in my opinion. I mean, I can't see how anyone with an open mind that watched the Broken Age documentary couldn't resonate with and understand what the team's going through when making a game from absolute scratch, even if your lead is one of the most beloved guys in the industry, and I think the mistake and missteps they've made only make them more human and relatable. Look at Dropsy, for example: of course, not the same thing, because you can't compare team sizes, experience, exposure etc. but they did have to go back on their release date and say guys, we'd really rather take our time and make it the best we can, and from what I can tell people aren't losing their poo poo over it. Yeah, I know, not the same financial issues, blah blah.The point is that delays and less-than-perfect fund management is inherent to crowdfunding to some extent, and people should really keep that in mind - you are willingly cutting out the middle man whose main job is to keep the project on track whether that hurts the game quality-wise or not. That's something you should be totally aware of when you throw your hard-earned buck to a game's kickstarter, whether it's uber loved Tim Schafer in sunny San Francisco or three guys in the middle of Bumfuck Nowhere, Eastern Europe. Of course there'll be games that are both great and make it on time, but if we're being honest they're the absolute exception and they only confirm what I'm saying above.
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Feb 17, 2015 09:51
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Dropsy had quite a clear presentation (and also some early myth/verse elements already outlined from the related CYOA thead) of the project and some rough estimation of its scale. Also, at no point (and this could be just me) did I doubt that the Dropsy project will be eventually completed based on the developer's updates or get the impression that they are desperately looking for more resources, etc. It's true that a devlog -or DF's documentary- will show you the ugly side of development too. But I think that in DF's case (and in so many others) many of the hard obstacles they were faced with were directly coming from their vague - open to interpretation- description of their target game AND their post-KS decision to make an even larger game because they got more than they could hope for/ because they wanted to truely be a success story for the platform (and because -probably consequently- they did a lousy job managing their funds). Cutting out the middle man (the producer) has its merits. Mostly content-wise in my opinion. They don't have some possible outsider that they have to run their ideas by, and they don't have the fear that content they already worked on will be judged/ cut by some random executive's decisions. Also, they don't have anyone pressing them to work on an uninspired sequel just because the original title did well with sales. But it's not realistic to expect that a creator will implement everything they want for their game just because they cut out the producer. The funds are still a fixed, limited amount, and they can only work for so long (even extensions/ postponing the release date are to be expected -but ought however to be reasonable- and in every single case they do hurt the developer too) on a specific title without delivering a final game. The last thing I expect the Kickstarter projects to keep to is the estimated release date. I am all for them taking all the time in the world and make a game that they are happy with instead of rushing it because they don't want to miss a preset deadline. But apparenty DF case (and again, so many other devlogs) prove that these delays are not typically what the backer/ gamer actually thinks they are. They come with their own bag of problems for the developer and may also hide resource issues, development hurdles, way too many missed internal deadlines/ goals - and may not result to the complete and uncut experience that the developers aim for. AbstractNapper fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 11:39
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Trapezium Dave posted:If you're looking for examples of game Kickstarters done right, there's plenty of better examples than Double Fine. I agree. Scam Citizen is up to $72 million real world dollars.
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Feb 17, 2015 13:00
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To be honest, despite all the hiccups, if Broken Age Part 2 comes out at all and it's at least as good as the first one and their promises about it being longer are true, I'll totally back another Tim Schafer adventure Kickstarter.
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Feb 17, 2015 13:34
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Megazver posted:To be honest, despite all the hiccups, if Broken Age Part 2 comes out at all and it's at least as good as the first one and their promises about it being longer are true, I'll totally back another Tim Schafer adventure Kickstarter. Its going to come out, and people are going to completely forgot about all their complaints. I mean sure, everybody had to wait longer than expected, but we are going to get a much higher quality product because of it.
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Feb 17, 2015 13:42
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Its going to come out, and people are going to completely forgot about all their complaints. I mean sure, everybody had to wait longer than expected, but we are going to get a much higher quality product because of it. I wouldn't say all complaints, people who raged about cultural marxism and feminist indoctrination will probably continue raging  But yeah Broken Age episode 1 is great and episode 2 will probs be great too
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Feb 17, 2015 13:46
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Yeah, I really liked Act 1, and if Act 2 is more of the same but longer, I'll get a shitload of good out of my $15 bux or whatever it was. Also, I tried really really hard to save all those people with my spaceship... 
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Feb 17, 2015 13:51
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I really think Kickstarter is adding game development to the list of things you don't want to see if you enjoy the end result, like laws and sausages. I got out of the DFA kickstarter what I expected: a small-scale, cute and funny adventure game to serve as an adjunct to a development documentary. I got in early, and at fifteen bucks I wasn't expecting the next Grim Fandango from what they described as a small team. Going back to the project page to make sure I wasn't misremembering some things (and I was-- I thought the documentary was the main thrust), Jesus Christ. Clowning around, playing up previous projects, talking about the benefits of Kickstarter for working around publishers... sure, this may have been during the honeymoon period, but that kind of thing flashes RUN now. Similarly, I thought DF9's development was explicitly tied to EA pre-sales and wasn't surprised in the least when it tied a bow around itself with half-formed arms. Another sterling example of the dangers of relying on an irregular funding stream, if it was, but I just went back to its Steam page and couldn't find signs of the warning I thought was there. It may have been removed when it fell off the back of the EA truck, but I'm not prepared to make that assumption or see if the Wayback Machine has a snapshot. Truga posted:Also, I tried really really hard to save all those people with my spaceship... You monster.
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Feb 17, 2015 13:58
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Bieeardo posted:Going back to the project page to make sure I wasn't misremembering some things (and I was-- I thought the documentary was the main thrust), Jesus Christ. Clowning around, playing up previous projects, talking about the benefits of Kickstarter for working around publishers... sure, this may have been during the honeymoon period, but that kind of thing flashes RUN now.
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Feb 17, 2015 14:42
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Back when Double Fine Adventure first went up, no game on Kickstarter had made more than $75k, much less the $400k that DF was asking for. That game would have been a short point-and-click with fairly simple graphics built on an existing engine. It wasn't supposed to be anything big or amazing. Then they pulled down $1.5 million in the first three days and all bets were off at that point.
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Feb 17, 2015 15:28
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Mr Underhill posted:Because they mostly make great games, act like real people with real feelings and humor rather than PR machines, always strive to bring something new to the table... You'd've thought Tim's company would be cranking out Grim fandango spinoffs like a motherfucker, right? Instead you got platformers, rts, rpg, hack n slash, open world, management sims, point n clicks, everything but the kitchen sink, with little compromise when it comes to quality. Double Fine hasn't made a good or complete game in literally over a decade
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Feb 17, 2015 16:16
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Mr Underhill posted:Because they mostly make great games, act like real people with real feelings and humor rather than PR machines, always strive to bring something new to the table... You'd've thought Tim's company would be cranking out Grim fandango spinoffs like a motherfucker, right? Instead you got platformers, rts, rpg, hack n slash, open world, management sims, point n clicks, everything but the kitchen sink, with little compromise when it comes to quality. I would like to visit the dimension you are from
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Feb 17, 2015 16:30
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Toxxupation posted:Double Fine hasn't made a good or complete game in literally over a decade Double Fine's first game was released less than a decade ago so uh
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Feb 17, 2015 16:31
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Toxxupation posted:Double Fine hasn't made a good or complete game in literally over a decade Plain wrong, sir, but I respect you shi- erm, interesting opinion. As Tim himself said in the documentary, everyone remembers "that game that came out real good, not that game that was so incredibly managed and released just in time", or something to that effect. Also, the DFA kickstarter is a bit of a particular case, because when they asked for the money there was absolutely no concept, no nothing whatsoever, and that is simply not the case with 99% of games KS-s. Actually I don't think I know of any other KS project that just said "we wanna do this game and we're not sure just what it'll be". A Steampunk Gent posted:I would like to visit the dimension you are from What part of my post do you have a problem with, the genre diversity, how fun the games are, transparency, overall quality? I'm genuinely curious.
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Feb 17, 2015 16:34
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Mr Underhill posted:As Tim himself said in the documentary, everyone remembers "that game that was so incredibly managed and released just in time" That's DF's literal entire ouevre, besides boring indie games with two hours of content stretched over six
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Feb 17, 2015 16:40
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I created a quck mod for the STRAFE pre-alpha to give inverted mouselook: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1593421/STRAFE_pre_alpha_invert_mouse.zip (For those worried about viruses, just compare the file with the original - I only changed a single byte)
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Feb 17, 2015 16:40
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This is the Police is going to be published by Team17's (Worms dev) indie publishing wing, which is apparently a thing. Like these guys or not, seems they do have at least enough of a game to sell a publisher on it.
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Feb 17, 2015 16:45
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Mr Underhill posted:What part of my post do you have a problem with, the genre diversity, how fun the games are, transparency, overall quality? I'm genuinely curious. Spacebase DF-9 was a straight up con they abandoned when it didn't make them the money they wanted. Most of their other titles, at best, have unengaging gameplay and coast by on 'charm': Psychonauts was a cartoon glued to a bad platformer, Brutal Legend was a massive bait and switch gameplay-wise and Costume Quest had all the depth of a puddle. Even if you like their games, they are not remotely a model for good game developerment. Mr Underhill posted:
The flipside to this is everyone remembers 'that game which came out and was a terrible incomplete buggy mess because the development team had no concept of time or money management', but not exactly for the right reasons!
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Feb 17, 2015 16:46
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Psychonauts was a cartoon glued to a bad platformer, Brutal Legend was a massive bait and switch gameplay-wise a I daresay the majority of professional gaming reviewers + the general public disagrees with you, but you just didn't like them, I get that. You know, Tim's manly good looks are not the principal reason for them having such a dedicated and loving (and forgiving!) fan base. I figure the quality of the games they put out have got to play into that to some degree.
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Feb 17, 2015 16:52
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Megazver posted:To be honest, despite all the hiccups, if Broken Age Part 2 comes out at all and it's at least as good as the first one and their promises about it being longer are true, I'll totally back another Tim Schafer adventure Kickstarter. And unless there's a document, I'll promise to buy it at -75% discount before the 2nd part comes out. 
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Feb 17, 2015 16:59
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Actually, Peter Molyneux is exactly the same thing as Tim Schafer.
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Feb 17, 2015 17:23
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Truga posted:I agree. Scam Citizen is up to $72 million real world dollars. Maybe, maybe not. Remember, they use their own crowdfunding poo poo. It could be higher or lower, and nobody outside would know.
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Feb 17, 2015 17:28
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There is no point in arguing with self professed fan boys
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Feb 17, 2015 17:33
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Mr Underhill posted:I daresay the majority of professional gaming reviewers + the general public disagrees with you, but you just didn't like them, I get that. even when psychonauts came out the platforming was consistently criticized so idk what you are talking about
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Feb 17, 2015 17:39
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Mr Underhill posted:I daresay the majority of professional gaming reviewers + the general public disagrees with you, but you just didn't like them, I get that. No, it's the reason for all nostalgia - he made some good games back when you were younger and had more hair and didn't need to worry about bills and your parents didn't drink so much. Ever since Psychonauts, everything DF has made has been one small step above your generic Greenlight title at best, and lately they haven't even accomplished that. They, and we, are growing older, and infirm, and closer to death.
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Feb 17, 2015 17:41
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I loving love me some Psychonauts but I don't in any way come to it for the platforming. [e] And even though I loved broken age and think the second part will be equally as good I'm never doing a double fine kickstarter or EA again.
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Feb 17, 2015 17:50
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Double fines entire oeuvre, even including psychonauts, has been a trail of broken promises and unfulfilled expectations, the only reason they haven't been called out on it was that until spacebase they hadn't scammed anyone, just delivered subpar product after subpar product that have coasted entirely on "from the mind that gave you grim fandango" The irony ofc is if broken age pt 2 is good it will be literally the first game they've ever made that's worth the undeserved hype and leniency that df has accrued But that's it, every other game they've made has been mediocre or severely flawed at best
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Feb 17, 2015 17:56
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Mr Underhill posted:I daresay the majority of professional gaming reviewers + the general public disagrees with you, but you just didn't like them, I get that. Are you defending Spacebase DF-9?
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Feb 17, 2015 18:07
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He's pretty clearly defending Psychonauts. Apparently that's not a good game anymore.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:15
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I played it for the first time last year and thought it was severely overrated. It seemed to me to be the exact sort of game I would idealize as a teenager into adulthood because the characters and dialogue are quirky and memorable, so I understand to some extent where people who enjoy the game are coming from but really no part of it holds up at all. Even the characters and writing I qualify as quirky are incredibly dated, very 90s and invader-zim-esque. The only DF game I've ever played and really enjoyed was Stacking. I expect Schafer knows that he couldn't make a game that would live up to the perceived legacy of Psychonauts even if he could get the funding for it, so he doesn't. Before his studio shutters he will attempt to kickstart a psychonauts 2 as his swan song in the gaming industry and to keep DF open for a bit longer though.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:24
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:He's pretty clearly defending Psychonauts. It became bad when Double Fine messed up DF9. Because either you like someone and everything they do is good, or you hate someone and everything they do is bad, apparently. Maybe it's because I get most of the games I play on sale that I don't get so butthurt when they don't meet my expectations. I just don't get getting so worked up at not enjoying a game that everything the developer has done is retroactive bad and they are terrible people and you have to tell everyone who mentions them about it. I get doing the opposite and enjoying a game enough to tell everyone how good it is but I guess that's just me.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:26
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As stated before, never played DF9 - not my genre and don't know much about it. I don't just have this attitude towards DF, I don't really care if I lose 10-20 bucks on a game if the people who've misstepped this time usually deliver the goods. Peter Molyneux springs to mind. Yeah, everybody's jumping on the hate bandwagon, and I agree a lot of folks have the right to be upset, but it's like Bullfrog and Dungeon Keeper and Fable II and all the good things he's ever made suddenly dissipated or really don't matter anymore over this Godus bs. Not saying he doesn't have a track record of overhyping, etc, but if you objectively look at his games and ignore the lunatic ravings he goes on, he delivered some great goddamned games. Just trying to say people tend to have memory misfires when they get hot-headed over celebrity designers tripping over their own crowd-funded laces. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Apparently that's not a good game anymore. It only takes one failed EA game to retcon reality into "it was all poo poo anyways". YOURFRIEND posted:Before his studio shutters he will attempt to kickstart a psychonauts 2 as his swan song in the gaming industry and to keep DF open for a bit longer though. Then we'll all retreat under layers and layers of nuclear winter snows and slowly freeze to death as Chris Roberts rockets to the moon in his 72 million dollar escape pod he was building this whole time. I think DF's doing pretty drat' good for a semi-indie studio that's been around for 15 years.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:29
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Psychonauts is not a bad game, just an unbelievably flawed one with some atrocious platforming and a really, really horrible camera
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Feb 17, 2015 18:30
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BoredMarc posted:It became bad when Double Fine messed up DF9. Because either you like someone and everything they do is good, or you hate someone and everything they do is bad, apparently. Yeah, I can't wait for the day when the Bioware backlash reaches the point where Baldur's Gate II was never actually any good and is, in fact, bad.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:38
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Mr Underhill posted:As stated before, never played DF9 - not my genre and don't know much about it. I never played DF9 either. It's not my genre either. I still find the business practice abhorrent.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:41
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