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sbaldrick
Jul 19, 2006
Driven by Hate

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

Reminds me of a guy I know who despite having a rather cushy bank job, also set up multiple companies in his name in order to deduct pretty much everything he earns from his real job against vague imaginary business expenses in personal companies that conveniently make no money. I think he claims he gives "financial advice to immigrants" or "general consulting advice" or something through his "companies" but will do things like drive across town to visit friends, claim he takes about finance and write the trip off as a business expense.

Like...I know it has to be illegal, but none of us can figure out the exact law and he's convinced the CRA won't gently caress him because "He's just a little guy, they've got bigger fish to fry".

The CRA will get him eventually. loving around with fake business expenses is always stupid as you will always get caught at some point even in a random personal audit which happen more then you think.

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Fuzzy Mammal
Aug 15, 2001

Lipstick Apathy

sbaldrick posted:

The CRA will get him eventually. loving around with fake business expenses is always stupid as you will always get caught at some point even in a random personal audit which happen more then you think.

And then you hire a tax lawyer and negotiate to retire your outsized bill at 5 to 10% of face value. NBD.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
I got audited by the CRA when I was 19. Behold, CRA, my vast financial empire of having a part-time job for 4 months and paying tuition to a university.

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012


Dreylad posted:

I got audited by the CRA when I was 19. Behold, CRA, my vast financial empire of having a part-time job for 4 months and paying tuition to a university.

Was this like 2008 or 2009? One of those years I think they must have decided to audit like every university student, because myself and more than half of my friends got hit all in one tax period.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
My dad has earned most of his income overseas and thus has claimed a lot of overseas tax credit. The CRA decided to get all up in his grill an audit him twice. Both times they found out they owed him money.

A good accountant is worth his weight in gold. :smugbird:

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Yeah, even on the low end of things. I went over my taxes with a fine tooth comb, pushed everything to the limit, over-claimed on poo poo, basically bent the system as far as I could and ended up coming out with like a $50 return. I was worried I pushed it too far so got our retired accountant friend to look it over for a case of beer. I got $300 out of it. Wizardry.

Then again our tax systems shouldn't be like this, it shouldn't take a paid wizard to get your correct results.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
You think the Canadian tax system is bad? You should check out amerikkka

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Baronjutter posted:

Then again our tax systems shouldn't be like this, it shouldn't take a paid wizard to get your correct results.

loving this. I'd much rather my extra money go to the government to do useful things, rather than to some accountant. The tax code is so hosed up and bizarre that, if we did away with all these little bullshit ways of lowering taxable income and whatnot, we could probably lower the nominal rate and still come out well ahead, because there'd be fewer ways for people to game the system.

Of course, this is not politically palatable. A deduction/credit that you use is called a deduction, but one that someone else uses is called a loophole.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

About half the people I've ever met that support a flat tax support it because the current system is "too confusing". Like they aren't libertarians or think the concept of progressive taxation is wrong, they just think the paperwork is too hard and it would be so much easier to have a flat tax because then they wouldn't have to pay H&R block to do their taxes every year.

Juul-Whip
Mar 10, 2008

They'd still do it, because plugging a few numbers into a web form is far too much hassle for the busy suburban commuter.

ocrumsprug
Sep 23, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Baronjutter posted:

About half the people I've ever met that support a flat tax support it because the current system is "too confusing". Like they aren't libertarians or think the concept of progressive taxation is wrong, they just think the paperwork is too hard and it would be so much easier to have a flat tax because then they wouldn't have to pay H&R block to do their taxes every year.

I always wonder about people that think the actual rate applied to their income is actually the complicated part of filing your taxes, or what you need an accountant for.

Rime
Nov 2, 2011

by Games Forum

ocrumsprug posted:

I always wonder about people that think the actual rate applied to their income is actually the complicated part of filing your taxes, or what you need an accountant for.

It's just one of those things media indoctrinated into people. "taxes are SO HARD" became a self-propagating lie that's present whenever the topic is brought up in entertainment.

Coupled with the glorification of stupidity that was omnipresent throughout the 80's and 90's, it's not surprising that people don't question it.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

ocrumsprug posted:

I always wonder about people that think the actual rate applied to their income is actually the complicated part of filing your taxes, or what you need an accountant for.

We've complained about it before, but there are tons of well educated high earning people who still don't even understand the basic concept of progressive taxation. It's not that they can't calculate it on the fly, they don't understand the extremely general concept of it. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that an actual majority of Canadians think "tax brackets" are an ever increasing flat-tax applied to their income. Careful not to earn too much or you'll bump up into a higher bracket and actually lose money!! It's like this country wants to punish success.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Baronjutter posted:

We've complained about it before, but there are tons of well educated high earning people who still don't even understand the basic concept of progressive taxation. It's not that they can't calculate it on the fly, they don't understand the extremely general concept of it. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that an actual majority of Canadians think "tax brackets" are an ever increasing flat-tax applied to their income. Careful not to earn too much or you'll bump up into a higher bracket and actually lose money!! It's like this country wants to punish success.

Why not just include a graph of income tax vs. gross income, and net income vs. gross income (both assuming no deductions) with every tax package? It would be trivial to recognize that you can never "lose money" by making more money, even if you don't understand the concept of tax brackets that well to begin with.

Lexicon
Jul 29, 2003

I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

PT6A posted:

Why not just include a graph of income tax vs. gross income, and net income vs. gross income (both assuming no deductions) with every tax package? It would be trivial to recognize that you can never "lose money" by making more money, even if you don't understand the concept of tax brackets that well to begin with.

lol, you think the average Canadian can read a graph? :allears:

sbaldrick
Jul 19, 2006
Driven by Hate
I"m pretty sure most people would be shocked at how little they pay in taxes in real terms to be honest but to do that it would require a huge breakdown of public spending that most people wouldn't understand.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Remember all the loving handwringing in bc about how the hst would "hurt low income families the most" because it would incur something like $500 a year in taxes? My friend, a U of T educated lawyer, employee of a bay Street law firm told me this was why he was against it (I blame his poo poo for brains hippy dippy wife for this).

gently caress everyone

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Lexicon posted:

lol, you think the average Canadian can read a graph? :allears:

Isn't that covered in grade 7 or 8 or something? Like, how in the gently caress can you graduate high school without being able to understand how a simple graph works?

Even Ricky got his grade 10!

Fuzzy Mammal
Aug 15, 2001

Lipstick Apathy
When I moved to Washington state my overall tax bill was cut by over 60%, despite my income over doubling. It's ridiculous.

You pay for it in other ways though, with shoddier higher education, higher healthcare costs, and worse roads, but still. 18% gross versus over 50% made it a no brainer.

sbaldrick
Jul 19, 2006
Driven by Hate

Fuzzy Mammal posted:

When I moved to Washington state my overall tax bill was cut by over 60%, despite my income over doubling. It's ridiculous.

You pay for it in other ways though, with shoddier higher education, higher healthcare costs, and worse roads, but still. 18% gross versus over 50% made it a no brainer.

How where you paying over 50%, I pay around 30% and I'm in the top 20% of the country.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
The worse roads are such a noticeable thing in America. Driving on I90 there were actual RUTS in the road where if you weren't exactly in the rut it was super hard to control the car. Lane changing was super weird because of it. I'd literally never, ever seen that before anywhere in Canada, and I've driven across BC multiple times on a lot of different highways.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

HookShot posted:

The worse roads are such a noticeable thing in America. Driving on I90 there were actual RUTS in the road where if you weren't exactly in the rut it was super hard to control the car. Lane changing was super weird because of it. I'd literally never, ever seen that before anywhere in Canada, and I've driven across BC multiple times on a lot of different highways.

I've seen those inside the city limits in Calgary. The only patch I can remember was re-paved, mind you, but it was there for a while.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

HookShot posted:

The worse roads are such a noticeable thing in America. Driving on I90 there were actual RUTS in the road where if you weren't exactly in the rut it was super hard to control the car. Lane changing was super weird because of it. I'd literally never, ever seen that before anywhere in Canada, and I've driven across BC multiple times on a lot of different highways.

America is basically a dumb country that doesn't do adequate infrastructure investment since it's not as useful to certain interest groups as another foreign military adventure.

Lexicon
Jul 29, 2003

I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

HookShot posted:

The worse roads are such a noticeable thing in America. Driving on I90 there were actual RUTS in the road where if you weren't exactly in the rut it was super hard to control the car. Lane changing was super weird because of it. I'd literally never, ever seen that before anywhere in Canada, and I've driven across BC multiple times on a lot of different highways.

Sounds like Montreal to me.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Lexicon posted:

Sounds like Montreal to me.

Montreal roads were apparently hand crafted by the local mafia.

Furnaceface
Oct 21, 2004




etalian posted:

Montreal roads were apparently hand crafted by the local mafia.

Those arent potholes, theyre potential body disposal sites!

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
Yeah, I kind of assume Montreal's construction/roads/infrastructure should be considered different to the rest of Canada's.

Fuzzy Mammal
Aug 15, 2001

Lipstick Apathy

sbaldrick posted:

How where you paying over 50%, I pay around 30% and I'm in the top 20% of the country.

Pretty easy, with provincial plus federal plus sales tax etc.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
You don't understand how progressive taxation works. My WA taxes are only marginally less than my BC/CA taxes.

e: marginal

namaste friends fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Feb 18, 2015

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
Yeah, I just stuck the numbers in a tax calculator, and got it up to $90 million in income which is still just a 45% tax rate and I'm too lazy to go higher.

edit: which seeing as the marginal rate is 45.8% it's literally impossible to get it to 50% tax.

double edit: also if you consider sales tax to be in the same category as income tax you're an idiot. There's a reason they have two different names in French.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
I think the only place in North America you can move to where you're significantly ahead due to income tax is Texas.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Cultural Imperial posted:

I think the only place in North America you can move to where you're significantly ahead due to income tax is Texas.

Florida also doesn't have income tax


tagesschau
Sep 1, 2006

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR


Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

HookShot posted:

The worse roads are such a noticeable thing in America. Driving on I90 there were actual RUTS in the road where if you weren't exactly in the rut it was super hard to control the car. Lane changing was super weird because of it. I'd literally never, ever seen that before anywhere in Canada, and I've driven across BC multiple times on a lot of different highways.

The 400-series highways are better than interstates in New York and Massachusetts and about the same as interstates in Michigan and Florida. Surface streets in Toronto are worse than any I've seen in the U.S.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
I'd say the NJ turnpike is the most amazing piece of road engineering I've seen in north america. Specifically the garden state parkway.

gently caress everything in Massachusettes and Pennsylvania though.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe

quote:


BMO: "Outside Vancouver & Toronto, [#housing} valuations appear reasonable, reducing the chance of a severe nationwide correction" #cdnecon

https://twitter.com/dbcurren/status/568075451605897216

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

Was this like 2008 or 2009? One of those years I think they must have decided to audit like every university student, because myself and more than half of my friends got hit all in one tax period.

No about 4 years earlier than that.

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

I'd love to move outside of Toronto and buy a more reasonably priced house, unfortunately I wouldn't be able to find a job out in the boonies

EvilJoven
Mar 18, 2005

NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?
Fun Shoe
The trick to escaping Toronto is to move so far away from it that all the jobs in the region aren't being sucked in to that black hole.

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
The real secret is to get a job where you can work remotely most of the time.

In other news, everyone wants to move to BC.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/influx-of-new-residents-expected-for-bc-over-next-several-years/article23041588/

quote:

Influx of new residents expected for B.C. over next several years

British Columbia’s economy is expected to get a lift over the next several years from an influx of new residents, helping fill job vacancies and spurring demand for housing.

Tuesday’s provincial budget forecasts a net gain of 46,600 people moving to B.C. in 2015, and a steady flow of new residents for years to come.

This year’s population growth will be composed of 36,600 individuals from abroad and 10,000 people from other provinces, according to projections in budget documents.

In 2016, the total net inflow should reach 50,800 new residents, followed by roughly 52,200 annually for several more years, B.C.’s Ministry of Finance said.

The predicted annual growth marks an increase from 2012 and 2013. B.C. had a total net gain of 26,749 people in 2012 and an influx of 33,625 in 2013. In the first nine months of last year, the net gain was 44,521 people from other countries and other provinces.

The Economic Forecast Council of British Columbia said population growth is important to support the province’s need for skilled trades and also for bolstering the housing market.

B.C. Finance Minister Mike de Jong consults with the council, made up of 14 Canadian economists, as part of his budget preparations.

“B.C.’s skills-training initiatives and interprovincial and international migration were identified as critical components to the ongoing success of the province’s resource industries and overall economy,” according to the summary of the council’s views contained in budget papers.

Most council members expect B.C.’s housing market to cool off, with a couple of economists saying that a “soft landing” has occurred in real estate already.

Greater Vancouver is the province’s most expensive housing region, with prices averaging $812,653 last year for detached homes, condos and townhouses.

That average price rose 5.8 per cent from $767,765 in 2013, the B.C. Real Estate Association said.

Low interest rates have helped fuel Greater Vancouver’s real estate market to record-high prices, but there is uncertainty about how long the housing rally might last.

“Several members noted that household debt levels in the province remain an issue and that British Columbians may be more sensitive than other Canadians to eventual interest-rate increases due to comparatively larger mortgages in the province,” said the budget summary of the council’s views.

The council is forecasting that the province’s gross domestic product will improve by 2.6 per cent this year, higher than the government’s estimate of 2.3 per cent.

Bryan Yu, senior economist at Central 1 Credit Union, said in an interview that gains in interprovincial migration will aid B.C.’s housing market in general, though there could be lower demand for recreational properties from out-of-province buyers.

“There will be fewer people leaving B.C. for Alberta,” he said.

Mr. Yu noted that with the trend switching to B.C. gaining more people from other provinces rather than losing them, that helps keep demand high in Metro Vancouver’s property market in particular. “When you add more people every year, it creates more density and puts pressure on the land base,” he said.


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Kafka Esq.
Jan 1, 2005

"If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Cultural Imperial posted:

The real secret is to get a job where you can work remotely most of the time.

I wish I knew more languages. An old friend of the family has a beach house in Spain, speaks four European languages on top of English fluently, and does all of her work translating legal documents from the beach. She lives with basically no costs outside of a love for tapas during the siesta.

Nothing I know how to do can be done remotely, really.

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