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Renegret posted:and now I'll go as far as to say he's the strangest person I've met in my life. Story time, story time
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Feb 17, 2015 19:04
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:My point is that, if it's just the alcohol itself, it makes no sense. What almost certainly did come up in the interview was the guy's attitude - no way did his personality flip overnight after he interviewed, that sort of thing shows through. Determining things like that about someone is why you are interviewing them(outside of basic competence) so I can't imagine they would have missed it. To me the simplest explanation there is that the company felt they could manage that, but the owner took it personally when exposed to it himself and that was it. I could be wrong but I'd love to see the interview notes on that guy. I think you're putting way too much stock in the interview process and it's ability to suss out all the potentially lovely personality traits in a series of 30 minute discussions. Even the weirdest of the weirdos can keep it together for a few hours. My company has an incredible group of recruiters and HR people and even so, every so often a total dud will slip through the cracks.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:11
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Renegret posted:Who doesn't put on a facade for job interviews? Yeah it's a cat and mouse game, the interviewer is trying to "trick" someone into showing their personality that they are trying to hide. Usually the interviewer has way more experience than the interviewee and can pull it off. Usually, uhh, "tech weirdos" aren't very good at acting. PS do tell Barry posted:I think you're putting way too much stock in the interview process and it's ability to suss out all the potentially lovely personality traits in a series of 30 minute discussions. Even the weirdest of the weirdos can keep it together for a few hours. My company has an incredible group of recruiters and HR people and even so, every so often a total dud will slip through the cracks. Maybe. I would think at a small company (the sort where the owner takes everyone out to eat) they would be extremely careful about who they hire but sure, it's certainly possible the guy pulled one over on them.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:19
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pig slut lisa posted:Story time, story time He brought in an airplane catalog one day and we went through it picking out the plane we want to have to help us evade the initial outbreak of the Zombie Apocalypse. That's when I found out that he actually owns a recreational pilots license even though we live in New York and recreational flight is simply not a thing people do around here. Oddly enough he doesn't like talking about it and I have no idea why. Other than that, it's your typical immature and strange mannerisms, strange texts at 3AM that would give HR an aneurysm, and blowing kisses in the parking with the explicit goal of weirding me out that I find hilarious because I am also an immature child. Nothing actually interesting. And on a related note, a small 2 seat Cessna is surprisingly affordable if you're willing to get it used. It's about the price of a new low end car.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:24
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Renegret posted:And on a related note, a small 2 seat Cessna is surprisingly affordable if you're willing to get it used. It's about the price of a new low end car. Airplanes are kind of like used really high end luxury cars. It's not the purchase price that kills you, it's the maintenance and upkeep.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:30
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In before 2 pages of plane chat. Edit: damnit
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Feb 17, 2015 19:31
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Maybe. I would think at a small company (the sort where the owner takes everyone out to eat) they would be extremely careful about who they hire but sure, it's certainly possible the guy pulled one over on them. You're right, if it's a small place that the owner will take people out to eat, I would think they might be a bit more diligent about hiring good people. It's a lot easier to be crazy at some megacorp.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:32
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Barry posted:I think you're putting way too much stock in the interview process and it's ability to suss out all the potentially lovely personality traits in a series of 30 minute discussions. Even the weirdest of the weirdos can keep it together for a few hours. My company has an incredible group of recruiters and HR people and even so, every so often a total dud will slip through the cracks. My own career bears testament to the accuracy of this. If they could determine sanity and competence during a job interview, I would be screwed.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:35
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Guinness posted:Airplanes are kind of like used really high end luxury cars. It's not the purchase price that kills you, it's the maintenance and upkeep. When I was a kid, my next door neighbor got bit by a dog in his inner thigh and sued the poo poo out of the dog's owner. He won $750,000 from that lawsuit. So of course, he bought a god drat boat with all of the money. And then sold the boat several years later because he couldn't afford the upkeep. The heartbreaking thing about him was when got sick with pancreatic cancer and was told by doctors he only had a year to live. He started trying all of these crazy "alternative medicine" treatments when traditional medicine failed, which wound up being more expensive in the long run and completely draining his bank account. The end result was that he died anyway and left his wife with very little money to support herself off of. blugu64 posted:In before 2 pages of plane chat. better than car chat, house chat, and big city living chat 
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Feb 17, 2015 19:38
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Renegret posted:better than car chat, house chat, and big city living chat A my name is Andy and I live in Atlanta and I drive in an Audi and I live in an A-Frame B my name is Brian and I...
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Feb 17, 2015 19:49
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Not a Children posted:edit: Just read Haifisch's update, sounds like he was just a douchey west-coaster trying to bring startup culture to a DC firm. That poo poo does not fly around here, and you're right, it's a little weird that that kind of vibe was not picked up during the interview. This is why in Seattle i've never once met someone moving TO the east coast. Up tight folks over that way. I've had about 5 friends in the past 2 years migrate from the east coast to the west coast specifically for the more relaxed work environment. You stay later at work but you get to work in jeans and a tshirt and drink and not feel bad.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:49
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I'd rather wear a 3 piece suit (at work) for 8 hours a day than jeans and a t-shirt for 12 hours a day. The entire west coast office feel is about tricking you into having no life and spending tons of time in the office. At least on the east coast we're generally up front about it.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:55
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I've worked on both coasts and in Chicago, and it all seems the loving same to me.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:59
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xie posted:I'd rather wear a 3 piece suit (at work) for 8 hours a day than jeans and a t-shirt for 12 hours a day. The entire west coast office feel is about tricking you into having no life and spending tons of time in the office. At least on the east coast we're generally up front about it. I'd rather wear jeans and a t-shirt and work 8 hours a day, like many west coast companies.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:00
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Guinness posted:I'd rather wear jeans and a t-shirt and work 8 hours a day, like many west coast companies. ok but i was directly replying to a post that said Tigntink posted:You stay later at work but you get to work in jeans and a tshirt and drink and not feel bad. which is why i said that
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Feb 17, 2015 20:06
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When I say longer I also mean start at 10am for your first meeting and end at like 6pm so honestly it's pretty awesome.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:11
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Renegret posted:Even the weirdest members of my team don't go full on weirdo until a few months in until they learn what they can and can net get away with. I have one person here in particular who was the quietest, nicest, and most normal guy for the first two months I knew him, and now I'll go as far as to say he's the strangest person I've met in my life. don't post about me itt
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Feb 17, 2015 20:13
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Guinness posted:Airplanes are kind of like used really high end luxury cars. It's not the purchase price that kills you, it's the maintenance and upkeep. Eh, with a plane it's the lack of maintenance and upkeep that kills you.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:33
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The Nards Pan posted:Eh, with a plane it's the lack of maintenance and upkeep that kills you. 
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Feb 17, 2015 20:38
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Good things about the West Coast -Better weather -Prettier - more public land and easier to get to -Less racism -More new, interesting firms Good things about the East Coast -Lots of old, stuffy firms -Very concerned about status and which school you went to -???
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Feb 17, 2015 21:20
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Radbot posted:Good things about the West Coast There's a pretty huge part of the East Coast that isn't New England, you know.
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Feb 17, 2015 21:38
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blugu64 posted:In before 2 pages of plane chat. I was hoping it would kick off. Last year I was looking at private jets to see what is out there. New private jets cost many tens of millions, but there are some cheaper small ones for $3m new. It would be nice to fly in a private jet but the fuel bill alone seems like a killer expense (of course running out of fuel is also bad). Although apparently Michael Dorn (Worf) buys second hand private jets to fly himself. Devian666 fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 22:06
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Firing an employee because they have a beer at lunch (even if they have the petty argument) seems pretty bad with money on the company's part too. It's one thing to fire them because of their ego but how did they not figure that out in the interview?
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Feb 18, 2015 00:17
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Dik Hz posted:If they're a federal contractor, they most likely have to be on record as to being zero-tolerance about drugs and alcohol in the workplace. That's the bigger issue. If the boss is seen as permitting alcohol in the workplace, he can lose the federal contracts. Which means everyone loses their jobs. I know it shouldn't be a big deal, but speaking as a manager at a company on that list, it really is a big deal. In the long and sordid history of federal contracting, has there ever been an instance of a company losing a contract and everyone losing their jobs because a guy ordered a beer at lunch
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Feb 18, 2015 01:17
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:In the long and sordid history of federal contracting, has there ever been an instance of a company losing a contract and everyone losing their jobs because a guy ordered a beer at lunch Hahaha Companies that lose federal contracts/get barred from taking new ones usually keep the same staff, change their name+make a new LLC, and taa daa they can take contracts again.
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Feb 18, 2015 01:24
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:In the long and sordid history of federal contracting, has there ever been an instance of a company losing a contract and everyone losing their jobs because a guy ordered a beer at lunch Probably not, but that's beside the point. His boss flat out told him "don't order any booze at this company function" and he told him to piss off. Doesn't matter if it was a dumb rule, he shouldn't have done it. He at least should have realized that doing so would have caused a problem between them.
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Feb 18, 2015 02:56
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Haha haha holy poo poo how are any of you defending that idiot redditor drinking at a work lunch? That's not a cultural norm, no one else was drinking and his boss specifically forbid it because it affected his ability to keep government contracts. I would've fired him on the spot in front of everyone
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Feb 18, 2015 02:58
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:In the long and sordid history of federal contracting, has there ever been an instance of a company losing a contract and everyone losing their jobs because a guy ordered a beer at lunch He ordered two beers. The boss let the first one go. "In the long and sordid history of federal contracting, has there ever been an instance of a company losing a contract and everyone losing their jobs because a guy ordered two beers at lunch" Probably not. What about three beers? The company I work for doesn't bid on any federal contracts, and as far as I've seen, the government agencies that regulate us say nothing about alcohol consumption. But guess what? I never, ever order alcohol for lunch. Because it's a complete taboo. I personally think it's ridiculous, but I also think the pot laws are ridiculous and yet I don't smoke a joint in the office either. The guy defied his boss, who was making a completely reasonable request, and he did it in front of the whole company. And WTF is all the chat about how this should have surfaced during the interview? I've interviewed job candidates for years and never once tried to tease out this kind of bizarre behavior. I get like 30 minutes per candidate, I'm trying to find someone that can do the job. It's hard enough.
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Feb 18, 2015 03:07
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Oh God, nobody is defending that idiot.
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Feb 18, 2015 03:12
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Blackjack2000 posted:He ordered two beers. The boss let the first one go. You've never teased out a personality characteristic that would make someone difficult to work with? Are you a pure technical interviewer or something? There is almost certainly someone interviewing someone trying to learn about their personality if you aren't, doubly so at a small company where an ego problem could be disastrous and they can afford to spend more time per candidate. Again, this is the most important thing to do in an interview (ie the interview process that a company does not an individual interview) so it's weird if no one screens for personality at all.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:49
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:You've never teased out a personality characteristic that would make someone difficult to work with? Are you a pure technical interviewer or something? There is almost certainly someone interviewing someone trying to learn about their personality if you aren't, doubly so at a small company where an ego problem could be disastrous and they can afford to spend more time per candidate. Again, this is the most important thing to do in an interview (ie the interview process that a company does not an individual interview) so it's weird if no one screens for personality at all. No. Can you give me an example of how you tease a personality characteristic out of someone when that person is focusing all of their efforts on being agreeable and likable? To be clear, I am not a hiring manager, but when my team is hiring I will usually interview the candidates that are being considered and give feedback to the hiring manager. I get a copy of their resume, I walk them through it, I try to get a sense for what they've done. Then I tell them about the job and let them tell me what they've done that's similar. It wouldn't even occur to me to try to trick someone into being an rear end in a top hat.
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Feb 18, 2015 05:11
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Blackjack2000 posted:No. Can you give me an example of how you tease a personality characteristic out of someone when that person is focusing all of their efforts on being agreeable and likable? I've certainly run into people who aren't very good at hiding it - it feels weird to cite specific examples of interviewees but one guy was very argumentative about why you'd make certain choices when coding while I was giving the constraints of an interview question. We didn't hire that one so I don't know if it would have turned into a real problem. Another guy was extremely talkative and had a tendency to talk over people and go on forever. This seems like a small problem, but the company ended up hiring him despite that and it became even bigger problem after he was hired - walking past him could be a serious distraction if you weren't willing to explicitly stop the conversation short. I don't look for these things as the main focus of my interview but in every company I've worked for there is some sort of interview with the team lead and/or an HR person who are responsible for finding any red flags like that.
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Feb 18, 2015 05:26
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Most of your specific arguments are lovely but I kind of get what you're getting at. The kind of person who thinks it's ok to "show up" their boss by googling something and parading it around like a know it all jackass surely would show some of those behaviors in any sort of comprehensive interview.
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Feb 18, 2015 06:12
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This is the most boring conversation in the history of the Internet.
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Feb 18, 2015 06:38
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In that case, drinking was dumb. But I did a paid co-op with my city back in college, and my manager said it was just fine to have a beer or two during lunch. Then again he probably was rather lenient on it given another worker had shown up drunk a few times.
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Feb 18, 2015 06:54
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Old Fart posted:This is the most boring conversation in the history of the Internet. 
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Feb 18, 2015 06:56
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Haifisch posted:You'd think that "don't drink booze at a work function if your boss tells you not to, and especially don't order a second beer and start arguing with him about how other jobs are cool with it" would be cut-and-dry, but noooo. I don't give a poo poo as it's the worst derail.
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Feb 18, 2015 08:28
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A mid 20s friend of mine works between a cinema and interning at a digital marketing company. She interns two days a week and gets $50AUD a week for transport. She's been doing this a year. Last week her boss offered her a full time paid position, which she turned down because "she doesn't want to do the 9-5 thing". But you do, homegirl, you do do the "whole 9-5 thing", you just do it between multiple places, so you think you're subverting the system. You do this because you think one day, one day real soon, someone's going to anoint you as Australia's Lena Dunham, and you'll be rich overnight. But they aren't, they definitely aren't. Instead of asking if they would instead pay her for her two days a week, she went back to her two day, one $50AUD cheque transport thing. Why? Because she "doesn't want to make things harder for them financially". Hey idiot, 'they' are an 'it', a capitalist organism, an organism that doesn't give a gently caress about you, why give a gently caress about it? You have no stake in its success, so drive a stake into this monsters belly and drink deeply from the money bleeding wound. Drink as much as you possibly can until someone drags you kicking away. If it can afford to pay you for five days, it can afford to pay you for two. ITT: country has highest ever youth unemployment, youth chooses two days interning a week over five days paid a week at the same company. BFC, is indentured servitude bad with money?
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Feb 18, 2015 09:03
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Thinking interviews are some kind of omniscient polygraph test is being bad with money
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Feb 18, 2015 10:43
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Hocus Pocus posted:A mid 20s friend of mine works between a cinema and interning at a digital marketing company. Does she live with her parents? Are they wealthy? Taking a full time salaried position means she would have to start acting like an adult. Keeping the unpaid internship allows her to push off adulthood for at least another year, and pretend like she is still a student/artist/whatever.
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Feb 18, 2015 13:55
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