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Roughly how much lower should I set my expectations going from Dwarf Longbeards to Orc Boyz? I want a fairly different army to play from my Dwarfs/Chaos Dwarfs, and O&G won out over Dark Elves.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:49
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Roughly how much lower should I set my expectations going from Dwarf Longbeards to Orc Boyz? I want a fairly different army to play from my Dwarfs/Chaos Dwarfs, and O&G won out over Dark Elves. Throw those Orc Boyz immediately in the trash and get Savage Boyz instead. Savage Big'Uns, thanks to their ward save, are actually better than Longbeards in every way, considering they get the same or better saves against st5 or better and have 3 St 5 attacks on the first round of combat with AHW. They also don't break except in situations that the game's probably over anyways since a horde can eat 15-20 elves pretty easily per turn. edit: If you're going to Orc Boyz though, they're more comparable to Warriors and even then Warriors beat them out pretty easily.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:53
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They don't have to be Boyz, they were just the first core choice that popped into my head.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:12
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Not a viking posted:Depends on the army, but VC can definatly get away and/or improve with 50% lords. One way is to have one caster vamp and having the other one be the general, so you won't crumble if you get a dimensional cascade. Following up on this, we are starting at 1k for this campaign. Any VC players care to comment on this list? BattleScribe posted:LORDS Basically only two units that can really hurt anything, but a decent skellie block to house the vamp, and the Hosts and Wolves to stall, block and redirect the enemy. The Vamp Lord should be able to kill anything it might see at 1k points on his own.
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Feb 18, 2015 15:23
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TKIY posted:Following up on this, we are starting at 1k for this campaign. Any VC players care to comment on this list?
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Feb 18, 2015 16:36
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I apologize for trundling into the thread to fart out a post like this, but I had a few moments to try and articulate some changes that I am hoping for from the next edition. I'm trying to restrict myself to the stuff that would be addressed by the next basic rulebook and not get into the nitty-gritty of points costs or army books. I also don't have experience with every single army or unit combination, so I'm hoping that people can criticize or poke holes in my arguments based on some aspect I haven't considered. -Always Strikes First no longer giving re-rolls to-hit. In general consider this passage an argument for a general reduction in the proliferation of re-rolling hits and wounds. It's already a huge tactical bonus to "ignore" initiative. It frequently appears on units that already have high Weaponskill and high Initiative, because GW doesn't understand how to thematically disassociate these concepts. It changes the already favorable 66% chance of hitting into an 89% chance of hitting. This goes even further around-the-bend when you have re-rolls on the to-wound (esp. with great weapons), so Elf Bullshit goes from an 83% chance of wounding to a 98% chance of wounding. The system isn't granular enough for that level of a swing in outcome and it promotes Death Star bullshit. -Characters can no longer make way until the unit has successfully performed a combat reform. I think there should be a new special rule instead that allows unlimited make-way movements (Swashbuckler, or Flashy Combatant) for some characters, allowing them to dynamically reposition (unless they are in a challenge). I'd consider granting it to Skaven (verminous valor) or in general to finesse character archetypes (assassins, light armor fighters). A generic combat character should need to rally his troops and re-organize to clear a path to his desired target. -Depleted units should give some % of their Victory Points. Whether that is below 50% gives half, or some other permutation, I am undecided. In general I want less keeping 1 model alive to save 1000s of points from a Death Star, it's just silly. Casual wounds that don't eliminate entire units also indirectly benefits armies with BS-based shooting or stone throwers, which are unlikely to ever kill an entire unit but can easily deplete a unit. I'm a fan of making BS-based shooting more effective without making it cheaper or mechanically changing it, because Fantasy should be about maneuvers and close combat at heart. All those changes in tandem would do a lot to penalize Death Stars, and Herohammer. I think there should be tactical considerations when it comes to using a combat hero. I'm not a fan of 1 gently caress-off huge horde of unassailable infantry, stuffed with defensive characters that will always make-way to prevent anyone from ever actually striking at the unit. A rear or flank charge typically represents out-maneuvering or capitalizing on an error, and as such should be a huge advantage, now it just results in the character wall rotating and that's it. -Charging going back to giving units Initiative 10, or allowing great weapons to strike at initiative for the charge. As it stands right now charging only gives +1 combat res and things like the lance/spear strength modifiers. I feel like it should be more decisive, given the risk with failed charges and the "dance of death" that often occurs at max charge range. -Magic phase changes: Wizards limited to using their level in power dice to cast spells. Eliminate the powered-up versions of almost all spells, adjust casting values downward to compensate for reduction in average roll results (6-dicing still available to Dark Elves). Restrict almost all augment/hex spells to a single unit. Scale the miscast table based on the number of power dice used for a spell (eg. roll 2d6, add the number of power dice used, bias the bad stuff towards a high results where 12-16+ is Dimensional Cascade). Losing your dude to the warp on the top of turn 1 trying to cast 1-dice fireball is dumb. I want a return to double-1s being Miscast table and failed casting, double 6s Irresistible Force without penalty but that's largely personal preference and not driven by balance concerns like the other changes. Magic resistance grants free dispel dice equal to the value of the resistance (half the problem spells from this edition don't even have saves associated with them in the first place). -Disruption and Steadfast I remain unconvinced about. I feel like a unit that is Disrupted should not be steadfast, but then again I don't think that a truly massive horde unit should break just because 15 swordsmen engaged them in the flank. I wish that we had not completely eliminated the concept of unit strength. I think there should be some inherent advantage to taking gigantic units, but I'm also not sure being immune to combat res is that advantage. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject?
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Feb 18, 2015 18:06
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frest posted:Holy smokes that Vampire is a megafucker, especially for 1k. The entire game is going to swing based on what he does in combat. Any list that brings significant shooting, Death Magic, or anything like that is going to give you some adrenaline while the skeletons march him up. Yeah I can't quite decide if it's a bastard move to bring him out or not. It's very 'eggs in one basket' so a cannonball or something could swing the game completely, but against other armies that don't have something like that are just fodder for the bloodsucker. Might be too much, I'll scale back to a L1 and maybe a master Necro with some zombies. Your other points I generally agree with, charging right now really only matters for mounted lance units. I do like that you can stack that with a flank charger and rack up +3 CR but in a world of Steadfast units, CR stacking is less effective than it should be. Something like Steadfast units losing 1 extra wound per CR they lose by (without saves) could help. They keep their unmodified LD but take a beating in the process. TKIY fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 18:29
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Yeah it really can be a one sided list. Granted it was back in 5th but I ran a similar idea, a flying mounted vampire lord, a necro, a wight lord and the rest of the points spent on a single block of about 200 zombies. prior tended to panic and focus on the zombies and missed the assassination run from the vampire. Made half a high elf army run off the table on turn two after killing the general once.
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Feb 18, 2015 18:36
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TKIY posted:Yeah I can't quite decide if it's a bastard move to bring him out or not. It's very 'eggs in one basket' so a cannonball or something could swing the game completely, but against other armies that don't have something like that are just fodder for the bloodsucker. Might be too much, I'll scale back to a L1 and maybe a master Necro with some zombies. I don't know that I think you should scale back, at least not before playing at least one game with it. It's going to be a frantic game for both you and your opponent. Your opponent can't really engage with the Vampire because he's a megafucker, but you also can't allow the unit to get chaffed or directed elsewhere because it's everything. Given that at 1k there's usually people building new armies or getting started on the game, that sort of a matchup can be an object lesson in how to handle completely beastly combat characters (for both sides of the table).
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Feb 18, 2015 18:57
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A WoC player is going to take your idea and you will fall victim to your own hubris. It's a bit unsporting to throw a combat lord that could kill like 95 percent of things in the game solo into a 1k point game when some wide-eyed Empire player is going to bring like a War Priest and a BSB. I mean, you can if you'd like, but the whole 'it'll be a learning experience for both you!' thing rings a bit hollow. A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 19:06
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:A WoC player is going to take your idea and you will fall victim to your own hubris. It's my experience that the wide-eyed Empire player in question has a cannon, helblaster, or steam tank at 1k (because 1k of infantry is actually a lot of work, vs assembling 1 box of demigryphs, 1 tank, or 2 artillery). However most people think about the game a lot more than they play it, so having the vampire hit a unit of Halberdiers like the fist of an angry god will definitely give the Empire player an appreciation for how important it is to chaff, re-direct, and so forth. There are only 6 possible player turns and the Vampire is going to spend at least 2 of them marching.
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Feb 18, 2015 19:13
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There are both established and new players in this campaign as well, and three of them are running Chaos Legion or WoC. The other two are running Woodies and HE, so I'm not going to see many weak armies out there. I'll rework it anyhow, I can always add Fangface the Annihilator later as points progress.
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Feb 18, 2015 19:24
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Having a big nasty point sink eat 10 points of slaves a turn for 4 turns does tend to make people rethink that plan. All the better if you are also shooting at him while he does it 
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Feb 18, 2015 19:24
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More wacky rumors! These are actually reasonable tho, compared to the dumb poo poo that's been floating around http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/02/warhammer-fantasy-9th-edition.html some guy definitely not making all this up posted:Rule changes have been made to stabilize and streamline some points, particularly at the formation units and their interaction with the characters, from what I was told.
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Feb 18, 2015 19:27
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show me the fantasy marines
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Feb 18, 2015 19:34
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Please let the Brets stay. I hope this blog is lore true than the multiple rumors I've been hearing stating otherwise.
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Feb 19, 2015 04:43
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Are they making Skaven the new Space Marines or something?
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Feb 19, 2015 06:22
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Business Gorillas posted:Are they making Skaven the new Space Marines or something? Thanquol turns out to be the true emperor and Karl Franz is a pretender. All humans were just mutant skaven who rebelled. In the grim darkness of the future, there is only squeeking.
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Feb 19, 2015 14:14
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Nash posted:Thanquol turns out to be the true emperor and Karl Franz is a pretender. All humans were just mutant skaven who rebelled. In the grim darkness of the future, there is only squeeking. It's always bothered me that you dont have Kevin Nash as your avatar.
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Feb 20, 2015 08:35
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What's Nash's position on bringing back Goldberg, though?
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Feb 20, 2015 09:11
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Big Willy Style posted:It's always bothered me that you dont have Kevin Nash as your avatar. At one time I ran the gimmick in wrestling threads of falling apart and injuring myself with every post. Much like the real Nash. Also I need more signatures for the petition.
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Feb 20, 2015 13:49
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I was watching some Youtube videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTKXLasBglc Those horse models look very familiar. I can't imagine why!
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Feb 22, 2015 19:34
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I was watching some Youtube videos: Were you somehow unaware of GW and Milton Bradley making games together? HeroQuest is also set in the Warhammer Fantasy universe.
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Feb 22, 2015 21:42
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Were you somehow unaware of GW and Milton Bradley making games together? HeroQuest is also set in the Warhammer Fantasy universe. Some of the horses look very similar to the 5th ed bret knights, at least I think that is what was pointed out.
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Feb 22, 2015 21:57
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I knew there were collaborations at some point. One of the Empire horses looks exactly like the horses I have now, is all.
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Feb 22, 2015 23:32
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Yeah it's the same model, the original GW plastic horse. Pretty much all the figures were real GW figs or slightly modified recasts that were just made to have less parts or made by recasting metal figures. IIRC all the Empire figs are Perry sculpts as well, and pretty good sources of cheap dudes for Empire.
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Feb 23, 2015 00:13
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I still have a bunch. They make alright back rankers for the most part.
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Feb 23, 2015 00:21
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How well does the current Knightly Orders box make Knights Panther? Am I going to be trawling ebay for conversion materials?
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Feb 23, 2015 17:26
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:How well does the current Knightly Orders box make Knights Panther? Am I going to be trawling ebay for conversion materials?
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Feb 23, 2015 17:57
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Asked this in the 40k thread too, but what repositories are everyone using for Battlescribe right now? I'm having trouble with randomhit on my phone at the moment...
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Feb 23, 2015 20:27
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http://battlescribedata.appspot.com/ RandomHit hasn't been the primary repo for over a year now, IIRC.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:29
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K, thanks. Must just be my phone or something but it's just not working right.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:45
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frest posted:The Knightly Orders box makes Panther, White Wolf, and Reiksguard excellently with no conversions required. The box comes with a panther-themed sprue, a white wolf sprue, and the generic sprue which is perfect for Reiksguard. Unless they've changed things recently, you don't get any White Wolf parts in the box, just Panther and generic/Reiksguard. I also wouldn't say it makes them excellently, they are a nightmare to rank up without being very careful with assembly.
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Feb 23, 2015 21:01
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Finally figured out the Battlescribe thing, it was cached data from the old repos screwing stuff up. Anyhow, following up on a kinder, gentler 1k VC list without a L4 Blender lord, how does this look? I've never played VC so I just don't want to roll into a campaign with a terrible list and burn out on it: BattleScribe' posted:+++ VAMPS (998pts) +++
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Feb 23, 2015 21:21
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Zark the Damned posted:Unless they've changed things recently, you don't get any White Wolf parts in the box, just Panther and generic/Reiksguard.
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Feb 23, 2015 21:27
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While we're on the topic-ish, is it worth spending magical points allowance increasing a 2+ to a 1+? I'm trying to figure out a Grand Master. I guess a Runefang and a Helm of the Skavenslayer works and gets the 1+, but is it worth it?
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Feb 25, 2015 02:38
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Rarely worth it unless it's only five points or something. Anything high enough strength to punch through a 2+ isn't really that worse off against a 1+. Better to put those points towards a ward save usually.
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Feb 25, 2015 02:52
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All you need is a shield on the GM to get 1+. Full Plate, Mounted, Barding, Shield. Give him the Other Trickster's Shard if no one else in the unit has s Ward Save.
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Feb 25, 2015 06:52
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:While we're on the topic-ish, is it worth spending magical points allowance increasing a 2+ to a 1+? I'm trying to figure out a Grand Master. I guess a Runefang and a Helm of the Skavenslayer works and gets the 1+, but is it worth it? Why would you ever take the Skavenslayer helm when the Dragonhelm exists? If there's one thing I don't want Skaven having against my general it's Hatred.
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Feb 25, 2015 13:23
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Admiral Joeslop posted:All you need is a shield on the GM to get 1+. Full Plate, Mounted, Barding, Shield. Give him the Other Trickster's Shard if no one else in the unit has s Ward Save. I forgot about barding. I guess that solves that, then.
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Feb 25, 2015 13:40
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