|
Tigntink posted:Oh trust me I know. I was one of those kids who grew up on powdered milk and hot dogs and vienna sausages. poo poo sucks but tons of assholes seem to think that "oh well if you just tried harder in school you would have done better" and then look loving confused when I tell them "I worked 40 to 60 hours a week all through high school and more during the summer because my parents couldn't afford to even buy me new glasses - it made it pretty loving hard to apply to scholarships and write essays for them" I get very sick of telling people that the $30 (or whatever it is right now) that the SAT costs to take sometimes means the difference between having food this week and not having food this week. When your choice is a bag of groceries or take that test that might get you into college next year it's a hard one. Plus like was said being poor fucks your ability to think long term. Plus being hungry for an entire week is loving awful, especially if you have high calorie needs because you carry heavy things for a living. Being poor is loving awful.
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2015 23:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 03:09 |
|
|
But if we help poor people then they won't have an incentive to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Don't you see that your efforts to support poor families so that high school students don't have to work 60 hour weeks while attending school only hurts those kids in the long run??? Valuable life experience like that is surely better than a college education Now excuse me while I steal the tips from my employees by charging "service fees" directly and simply pocketing them. I love a free market! e: Oh poo poo, thought was I in the libertarian thread. Oh well, not going to bother editing my irony post since a lot of libertarians that I know are also antivaxx (a mix of U.N./FEMA MIND CONTROL and MY COUSIN'S FRIEND'S HOMEOPATH SAYS THAT VACCINES GIVE YOU AUTISM) QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Feb 19, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2015 03:39
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:e: Oh poo poo, thought was I in the libertarian thread. Oh well, not going to bother editing my irony post since a lot of libertarians that I know are also antivaxx (a mix of U.N./FEMA MIND CONTROL and MY COUSIN'S FRIEND'S HOMEOPATH SAYS THAT VACCINES GIVE YOU AUTISM) Don't forget that MEN WITH GUNS will hold you down while a STATIST "doctor" injects you with DRUGS.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2015 03:50
|
|
|
Antares posted:Don't forget that MEN WITH GUNS will hold you down while a STATIST "doctor" injects you with DRUGS. The flag is gold-fringed, so step away from the syringe 
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2015 03:57
|
|
|
Icon Of Sin posted:The flag is gold-fringed, so step away from the syringe  Anti-vax thread: The flag is gold-fringed, so step away from the syringe
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2015 06:49
|
|
|
As a former libertarian/anarcho-capitalist and dabbling anti-vaxxer, the main reasons as I recall are: * Anti-government sentiment * Anti-authority sentiment (towards the doctors) * Anti-medicine sentiment (the SYSTEM is all about modern medicine, why are they trying to keep us from homeopathy etc??? Seriously, every single day there is an article on LewRockwell.com with some fringe health or medical story. Today's is about beets, and also anti-vax, anti-mercury fillings, and anti-fluoride) * The 1970s flu vaccinations were a clear sign that government/establishment/medicine can't do anything right. * Not every libertarian, but many, will latch on to conspiracy theories. Vaccinations are ripe with those. ** to the point that I think some even believe the autism is a plot to control our minds * Ultraindividualist sentiment ("my vaccination status has no effect on you"), not realizing that negative externalities exist. * Since they're libertarian, they consider themselves smarter than everyone else, or at least that they've seen the Matrix. And thus, if there's anything to latch on that enhances it, some will go into it simply because it adds to another thing to be smug about. I've never gotten a flu shot because of a family history, my grandmother contracted Guillain-Barré in the 70s so I've always relied on the rest of you pincushions. Of course, the irony there is that the flu vaccine is probably far more useful on an individual basis than for herd immunity, since it's so hit-or-miss.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2015 08:09
|
|
|
The worst thing about a lot of anti-vaxxers is they use every weakness of the flu vaccine, which is admittedly not all that great, against every vaccine in existence. Personally, I do get a flu vaccine every year (and it's been effective for me every year, combined with good hygiene), but I don't think not getting it (especially if you have a good reason, like a family history of adverse reactions) is anywhere similar to not getting your kid vaccinated against measles.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2015 16:56
|
|
|
When I was in college, one of the first cases of H1N1 in the US was the room mate of one of my friends, who had just come back from a vacation to Mexico. Dude had to be carried to the hospital on a stretcher and my friend was quarantined in his dorm room for like a week. I haven't missed a flu shot since, gently caress that poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2015 17:08
|
|
|
PT6A posted:The worst thing about a lot of anti-vaxxers is they use every weakness of the flu vaccine, which is admittedly not all that great, against every vaccine in existence. Personally, I do get a flu vaccine every year (and it's been effective for me every year, combined with good hygiene), but I don't think not getting it (especially if you have a good reason, like a family history of adverse reactions) is anywhere similar to not getting your kid vaccinated against measles. We really should find different terms for "Substance you receive to 99%+ permanently immunize you to a deadly disease that we are trying to eradicate" and "Substance you receive to maybe immunize you against what might be the predominant strain of an illness for only one year that honestly we know fuckall about and enjoys getting randomly worse." Then we could have people complaining about the flu [whatever] without having it mentally bleed over into smallpox/polio/MMR [whatever].
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
My school district (in the DREADED TEXAS, OH NO LOOK OUT FOR REDNECKS) got state funding to pay for every student in the school to take the ACT. It was mandatory.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:But if we help poor people then they won't have an incentive to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Don't you see that your efforts to support poor families so that high school students don't have to work 60 hour weeks while attending school only hurts those kids in the long run??? Valuable life experience like that is surely better than a college education http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/weird-news/parents-giving-bleach-enemas-to-cure-their-children-of-autism-yeah-thats-a-thing/
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 02:47
|
|
|
Thanks, I thought I had lost most of my humanity. Apparently I still have enough to get really depressed about special needs kids being literally tortured by their parents blindly looking for an impossible cure, so I guess I'm not quite completely broken yet. gently caress alive.....
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 04:40
|
|
|
Noooooope, I'm just not going to believe that happens.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 07:48
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Noooooope, I'm just not going to believe that happens. *slowly opens filing cabinet, looking straight at you*
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 08:03
|
|
|
Cardboard Box A posted:No, that site is useful and on topic, see: jesus loving christ
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 08:06
|
|
|
That's come up in the pseudoscience thread as well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 09:06
|
|
|
Leo Showers posted:jesus loving christ You know, I think the people selling that and the parents doing that to their children should probably just be put down.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 17:55
|
|
|
PT6A posted:You know, I think the people selling that and the parents doing that to their children should probably just be put down. Can we sentence people to bleach enemas for life with no possibility of not getting bleach enemas for life?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 18:25
|
|
|
quote:Most parents complain that their children don’t like drinking the solution, naturally, because it smells exactly like bleach and parents within the group offer advice on how to sneak it into their children’s drinks without them noticing. Other parents have noticed problems with their children’s teeth turning strange colors "Why doesn't my son want to drink his bleach smoothies?! Unrelated, for some reason the enamel on my son's teeth is melting away, can I fix this with more bleach?"
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 19:56
|
|
|
Habibi posted:Can we sentence people to bleach enemas for life with no possibility of not getting bleach enemas for life? Only if this means they only get one: i.e. they get killed by having bleach pumped up their poopchute until they die.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 20:18
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:"Why doesn't my son want to drink his bleach smoothies?! Unrelated, for some reason the enamel on my son's teeth is melting away, can I fix this with more bleach?" those are tooth worms, the bleach is working
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 20:36
|
|
|
"Don't you dare inject my baby with your evil chemicals! It has a mercury molecule in it!" *pours bleach down kid's throat and rear end in a top hat* Jesus what the gently caress is wrong with these people.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 20:37
|
|
|
Rhesus Pieces posted:"Don't you dare inject my baby with your evil chemicals! It has a mercury molecule in it!" *pours bleach down kid's throat and rear end in a top hat* Everything. At this point Im convinced this movement has nothing to do with actual science or facts or being "natural", its literally only about control. These people feel like they need 100% control over everything involving their child(ren) and having doctors or politicians telling them to do something they know nothing about takes that illusion of control away.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 20:44
|
|
|
They're also being sold a product, keep in mind. These people aren't usually using household bleach, they're buying bleach-making chemicals from one of a number of hucksters and then pumping their home made concoction into their kid's butt. The people who sell these chemicals as a cure (to not only autism) are praying upon the desperate and stupid. I am sure that at least some of those frauds know that their cure is fake, but they know how to make a story seem plausible enough to keep selling the product.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 20:56
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:They're also being sold a product, keep in mind. These people aren't usually using household bleach, they're buying bleach-making chemicals from one of a number of hucksters and then pumping their home made concoction into their kid's butt. The people who sell these chemicals as a cure (to not only autism) are praying upon the desperate and stupid. I am sure that at least some of those frauds know that their cure is fake, but they know how to make a story seem plausible enough to keep selling the product. I can almost feel sorry for some of these parents, their kid has autism which is REALLY hard to control, they see a miracle cure, and they want to believe. The people who are literally getting rich off damaging autistic kids' teeth/intestines can burn in hell though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:I frequently enroll kids in school, and one of the rights of homeless youth under McKinney-Vento is to enroll immediately without having to wait for immunization records. It definitely makes sense that they should have as few barriers to speedy enrollment as possible--every day lost contributes to their overall deficits--and we definitely try to make sure they get to a doctor right away but you can see where there is a downside. I used to do this too, a lot of the mainstream schools liked to try to use this as an excuse to keep out undesirable students.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 21:04
|
|
|
There has to be a perfect combination of profound ignorance and stupidity and a desperate need to make their kid "normal" that makes bleaching your child's digestive system until their intestinal lining sloughs off seem like an acceptable idea. People with proper critical thinking skills don't follow childcare advice that has a subsection entitled "how to fight child protective services."
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 21:16
|
|
|
Rhesus Pieces posted:"Don't you dare inject my baby with your evil chemicals! It has a mercury molecule in it!" *pours bleach down kid's throat and rear end in a top hat* It looks like they don't actually know it's bleach? Surely it's just coincidence that Miracle Mineral Solution, which is the only thing they can find online that claims to cure autism, happens to smell like bleach when mixed with citrus juice????? A lot of people don't really doubt what they're told by someone who seems credible, and there are entire careers and industries built around trying to seem credible enough to convince people to buy things they don't need which aren't good for them, even when authorities and experts tell people not to buy those products. They're being scammed, that's all. Rhesus Pieces posted:People with proper critical thinking skills don't follow childcare advice that has a subsection entitled "how to fight child protective services." Opposing CPS is surprisingly mainstream. People hate the idea that a government agency has the power to restrict how they raise their kids, and there's always rumors or urban legends floating around about how CPS is evil and corrupt and takes away kids for no reason!!!!, so support for CPS is less universal than you'd think and there's a lot of resistance to them (except when a child turns up missing or dead, in which case CPS is blamed for not taking the kids away immediately). Also, parents are often blind to their own flaws and see nothing at all wrong with their own conduct. Hell, go back a few years in the goldmine and you can find a thread on these very forums by someone who wanted to sue CPS for threatening to take their kids away from their rotting hoarder house where every available surface was covered in clutter or garbage piled several feet high and the kids had to be careful not to step on the "soft spots" in the floor.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 21:35
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Opposing CPS is surprisingly mainstream. People hate the idea that a government agency has the power to restrict how they raise their kids, and there's always rumors or urban legends floating around about how CPS is evil and corrupt and takes away kids for no reason!!!!, so support for CPS is less universal than you'd think and there's a lot of resistance to them (except when a child turns up missing or dead, in which case CPS is blamed for not taking the kids away immediately). Also, parents are often blind to their own flaws and see nothing at all wrong with their own conduct. Hell, go back a few years in the goldmine and you can find a thread on these very forums by someone who wanted to sue CPS for threatening to take their kids away from their rotting hoarder house where every available surface was covered in clutter or garbage piled several feet high and the kids had to be careful not to step on the "soft spots" in the floor. lowtax has really cleaned up his house since then ok
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 21:54
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Opposing CPS is surprisingly mainstream. People hate the idea that a government agency has the power to restrict how they raise their kids, and there's always rumors or urban legends floating around about how CPS is evil and corrupt and takes away kids for no reason!!!!, so support for CPS is less universal than you'd think and there's a lot of resistance to them (except when a child turns up missing or dead, in which case CPS is blamed for not taking the kids away immediately). Also, parents are often blind to their own flaws and see nothing at all wrong with their own conduct. Hell, go back a few years in the goldmine and you can find a thread on these very forums by someone who wanted to sue CPS for threatening to take their kids away from their rotting hoarder house where every available surface was covered in clutter or garbage piled several feet high and the kids had to be careful not to step on the "soft spots" in the floor. God, I remember that thread. It started off somewhat sympathetically, even if some of the descriptions elicited skepticism. Then came the revelation that the author, who complained in his OP about the cost of things, had been soliciting advice in another thread on building his gaming rig (to the tune of almost two grand, iirc), and other revelations suggesting parental negligence. Then came the photos. Oh god, the photos.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 21:58
|
|
|
Habibi posted:God, I remember that thread. It started off somewhat sympathetically, even if some of the descriptions elicited skepticism. Then came the revelation that the author, who complained in his OP about the cost of things, had been soliciting advice in another thread on building his gaming rig (to the tune of almost two grand, iirc), and other revelations suggesting parental negligence. Then came the photos. Oh god, the photos. I don't remember the poster's name, but he eventually got his act together and got his kids back. A rare goon success story.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 21:59
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:
I had a Social Work professor tell me that a birth certificate was in reality a title of ownership. He worked in CPS for years and he saw and dealt with poo poo I can't even imagine. I look back on his statement now and I'm convinced he was right. bitcoin bastard posted:I don't remember the poster's name, but he eventually got his act together and got his kids back. A rare goon success story. "Dig up, dig up!!" "Oh wow, digging up is way better." And the world was a better place. Pohl fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Feb 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 22:03
|
|
|
Pohl posted:I had a Social Work professor tell me that a birth certificate was in reality a title of ownership. He worked in CPS for years and he saw and dealt with poo poo I can't even imagine. Going to people's houses and having to remove their children after you see meth in in their house, then having it come back around on the rumor vine 2 weeks later as an UNJUSTIFIED CPS STEALING MY KIDS!!! story is kind of depressing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 22:06
|
|
|
GreyPowerVan posted:Going to people's houses and having to remove their children after you see meth in in their house, then having it come back around on the rumor vine 2 weeks later as an UNJUSTIFIED CPS STEALING MY KIDS!!! story is kind of depressing. The best part is when something happens to a kid that CPS was trying to save, and everyone blames CPS. "Why didn't they do something? Everyone knew that kid was in danger!" The people that I've met that worked in CPS care a lot about their jobs and the kids they work with, but they are so understaffed or there are so many restrictions that they can't save some kids. Somehow that means the system is broken and we should toss the entire thing in the garbage. Pohl fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Feb 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 22:13
|
|
|
bitcoin bastard posted:I don't remember the poster's name, but he eventually got his act together and got his kids back. A rare goon success story.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 22:16
|
|
|
bitcoin bastard posted:I don't remember the poster's name, but he eventually got his act together and got his kids back. A rare goon success story.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 22:23
|
|
|
I work with CPS on a regular basis, and they are incredibly powerless and overworked. I tell everyone to just report. Report, report, report, all the time, every time. The fatter the file gets the more likely they are to do something.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2015 01:41
|
|
|
We recently had a baby and live in LA where there's been a bunch of Measles related issues. We definitely are going to vaccinate, but one thing I find interesting is that a lot of people on both sides seem somewhat misinformed. But I guess that's normal. E.g. my wife talks as if Measles is the next Ebola but the year the vaccine was developed, from what I can tell, 450 people died from it in the United States. In comparison, we grew up when there was no chicken pox vaccine, and it seems like about 150 people died from that per year. Not a huge difference there. Someone in this thread even attempted to segregate flu vaccines from something like the Measles vaccine. But from what I can tell, the number of estimated deaths from the Flu (11k being the average estimate per year for the last 30 years) is much higher than what a population adjusted death count from Measles pre-vaccine would have been (about 750). And I would expect it to be even lower than that nowadays. So, why is it ok to skip the vaccine for something that kills more people than it seems like the Measles would? Why aren't people who forego the Flu vaccine being labelled as anti-vaxxers?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2015 03:13
|
|
|
Part of why the flu death rate is higher is because the flu mutates so quickly that it's hard to vaccinate against. The vaccine that goes out each year is targeted at a best guess of which flu strain/s will be most prevalent. So while the measles vaccine is say 99% effective, the flu vaccine may be only 85% effective (numbers pulled out of my rear end) In addition, diseases like measles and chicken pox are for the most part one and done. The acquired immunity in the community thus mitigates their spread to some degree. Acquired immunity to the flu only lasts around one year, because the flu virus will have mutated its way around your immune system by the time the next flu season rolls around. Tarezax fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Feb 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2015 03:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 03:09 |
|
|
Also you may not die of measles but complications can lead to deafness, paralysis and other life-affecting symptoms. Not to mention the chance of passing it to other people, especially the young and elderly, who are as always the most at risk from disease.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2015 03:36
|
|
