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WarLocke posted:Neo escapes from the Matrix, finds himself outside the Cyberdyne Systems podfarm, and the pod he comes from is shown to be labeled "Connor, John". drat, that's way better than the 'matrix within a matrix' that i've heard nerds say would be a better ending. I was really, really hoping it wouldn't be a matrix within a matrix when revelations came out, that seemed like such an obvious copout, and the really obvious direction for an ending.
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Feb 20, 2015 07:45
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The Architect's speech in Reloaded reveals that the rebellion and Zion effectively are another matrix though. It's not a computer simulation of reality, but it is a system of control that presents fake issues to keep people occupied and maintain the status quo.
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Feb 20, 2015 12:24
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Full Battle Rattle posted:drat, that's way better than the 'matrix within a matrix' that i've heard nerds say would be a better ending. It fit the themes that the Architect was talking about as stated above; just made it on the nose. Ad it's better than what we ended up getting, whatever that was.
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Feb 20, 2015 15:00
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Not sure if it's been brought up before, but the new movie looks like it takes place in two different points of the past. In the trailer you see Arnold shooting the original 84 terminator (I've been waiting for you) and yes he looks a bit older. But when you see the scenes at the bridge or the helicopter bit at the end he looks much older than in 84. His hair looks a little longer and gray. Also the cars on the bridge scene look more 90s than anything but maybe they just didn't care during the filming.
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Feb 20, 2015 15:54
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Kingtheninja posted:Not sure if it's been brought up before, but the new movie looks like it takes place in two different points of the past. In the trailer you see Arnold shooting the original 84 terminator (I've been waiting for you) and yes he looks a bit older. But when you see the scenes at the bridge or the helicopter bit at the end he looks much older than in 84. His hair looks a little longer and gray. The skin and hair on the terminator are actual human organs, it's only the skeleton and 'brain' that are cybernetic. If a model was hanging out for long enough it's reasonable that it would age similarly to a human. In the first one he cuts off part of his fake skin because it's rotting and the smell is compromising his ability to infiltrate. Party Boat posted:The Architect's speech in Reloaded reveals that the rebellion and Zion effectively are another matrix though. It's not a computer simulation of reality, but it is a system of control that presents fake issues to keep people occupied and maintain the status quo. Oh yeah, and that's way more interesting than a potentially infinite layer of matrices. Darko posted:It fit the themes that the Architect was talking about as stated above; just made it on the nose. Ad it's better than what we ended up getting, whatever that was. Are you saying that a matrix within a matrix idea was better than what we got? I really felt like that would be the most obvious, easy conclusion to the series. You can never win, it's just another matrix. I thought the truce between humanity and machine was a lot more interesting. It wasn't executed well, but I thought it was way more novel than just either side having total victory. How many action movies end with peace between the protagonist and antagonist?
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Feb 20, 2015 17:04
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Full Battle Rattle posted:The skin and hair on the terminator are actual human organs, it's only the skeleton and 'brain' that are cybernetic. If a model was hanging out for long enough it's reasonable that it would age similarly to a human. In the first one he cuts off part of his fake skin because it's rotting and the smell is compromising his ability to infiltrate. So do terminators eat? If they're expected to maintain their flesh shell they would need to huh? The skin would need nutrients so it wouldn't rot, the hair would need them to grow, etc? I don't recall ever seeing a terminator eat anything onscreen...
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Feb 20, 2015 17:07
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Full Battle Rattle posted:
Having it not being a second layer resulted in Neo being sidelined for half of the movie (due to being overpowered in The Matrix and useless in the real world), and a repetitive "real world" fight against the squids. The truce wasn't accomplished because of anything that happened in the "real world," it was because The Matrix was going to be completely ruined by Smith. Making Zion out to be another layer of (virtual) control removes the need for the boring real world stuff, and removing Neo from most of the movie. Smith infecting people in both layers (remember, he "possessed" the one guy) could still lead to the same resolution while accomplishing more interesting plot lines, action sequences, and stakes than what we got.
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Feb 20, 2015 17:15
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WarLocke posted:So do terminators eat? If they're expected to maintain their flesh shell they would need to huh? The skin would need nutrients so it wouldn't rot, the hair would need them to grow, etc? The script for the original Terminator had him eating a candy bar, wrapper and all, to feed the human skin.
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Feb 20, 2015 17:48
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I wonder when a Terminator hibernates or whatever after completing its mission before JD if it melts all of its own skin and hair first.
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Feb 20, 2015 17:51
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Armyman25 posted:The script for the original Terminator had him eating a candy bar, wrapper and all, to feed the human skin. It's not like the metallic skeleton underneath has a digestive/circulatory system to get the required nutrients to the skin...? I'm thinking too hard about this. I guess I never looked critically at an organic layer on top of an inorganic body that doesn't nourish it in the slightest. I could understand if the organic layer had a "shelf-life" of a few days/weeks so that it could serve its function for infiltration but to perpetually keep up the organic portion seems rather inefficient. 
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Feb 20, 2015 18:24
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Darko posted:Having it not being a second layer resulted in Neo being sidelined for half of the movie (due to being overpowered in The Matrix and useless in the real world), and a repetitive "real world" fight against the squids. The truce wasn't accomplished because of anything that happened in the "real world," it was because The Matrix was going to be completely ruined by Smith. I guess you can say it'd be more interesting, but when Neo messed with stuff in the real world I said "It's probably just a nested matrix." I was glad they defied my expectations, I hate getting plot twists right. Beyond that, Neo being able to affect stuff in the real world is fairly easy to explain, especially now that we live in the world of wireless internet. Smith infecting someone in the real world illustrates how similar machine consciousness is to our own. The real-world fight in Zion was (almost) totally unnecessary and is certainly far, far too long. Most of it could be cut with very little effect on the rest of the movie. Nostalgia Critic just did a set of videos on the Matrix anthology (he includes the animatrix) and he mentions one of those real world segments being like 18 minutes long. That's way too much to show "They are fighting, the humans are probably going to lose unless something happens." Actually, most of the real world segments were unnecessarily long and so is the movie as a whole. Also, he agrees with you in that a nested Matrix makes a lot more sense. Maybe it's just a personal thing, but I was glad they didn't go that route only because it seemed like the most obvious twist and really resolves nothing, another pet peeve of mine in films. Ending the film with Neo being trapped in a matrix just puts us back at where we were at the beginning of the first movie. I liked all the stuff that happened in the matrix (up to and including the ending) and most of what was happening in zion could just be spoken about by the characters in a few reference lines, sort of like how the first movie handled it.
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Feb 20, 2015 18:42
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Full Battle Rattle posted:I guess you can say it'd be more interesting, but when Neo messed with stuff in the real world I said "It's probably just a nested matrix." I was glad they defied my expectations, I hate getting plot twists right. Beyond that, Neo being able to affect stuff in the real world is fairly easy to explain, especially now that we live in the world of wireless internet. Smith infecting someone in the real world illustrates how similar machine consciousness is to our own. A lot of these criticisms come in terms of plot - and yeah, the events of the film are easily boiled down to some cliff notes, but that's not all it's conveying with its runtime. The Wachowskis are visual storytellers, and their films are told in very 'comic book' ways - where events or scenes exist purely to convey ideas, rather than just the raw plot. Take for example, the comic Berserk, which has a massive chunk dedicated to a flashback to events that aren't totally necessary to the story of a dude trying to kill another dude, but which tell us a lot about the nature of the people involved and gives us the author's idea of 'the human condition' and what fate is like and so on. The 18 minute fight sequence runs long and doesn't have cuts to the other stuff because it's all about being trapped there in the moment, on what might be the last day of everyone's life, trying to stand against this oncoming destruction. It also characterises humanity and the machines as similar creatures but with different goals and ideals, all without having any person or machine sit down and explain their motivations. War scenes in any film are never about who is going to win but about what sets the groups apart, what they stand for, why they won, and so on. Like, humanity's main weapon is a one-man vehicle designed to look like a human and make heroic hoo-rah poses while firing lots of guns, but these inevitably run out, or suffer malfunctions, and then a network of other people come in to actually keep them working. It's reflecting the way real-world heroic figures are only ever really where they are because some kid is giving them ammo, fixing their poo poo, they have people on the radio telling them what to do, etc. Meanwhile, the machines are all identical yet function independently, but come together to form a massive united 'hand of god' that can wreck poo poo up. Later we meet their leader/god/representative, a face composed of dozens of tiny machines that identify as 'we'. This stuff demonstrates that the machines are a collective, one and many at the same time, with no dude at the top giving orders. The film is saying that while man and machine are similar in a lot of ways, the machines are winning because they are better, and humans are losing because their battle strategy consists of literally 'feeding the machine' (by getting inside the big robots, or sending people out into the meat grinder to keep them supplied).
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Feb 20, 2015 19:45
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FooF posted:It's not like the metallic skeleton underneath has a digestive/circulatory system to get the required nutrients to the skin...? I'm thinking too hard about this. I guess I never looked critically at an organic layer on top of an inorganic body that doesn't nourish it in the slightest. I could understand if the organic layer had a "shelf-life" of a few days/weeks so that it could serve its function for infiltration but to perpetually keep up the organic portion seems rather inefficient. Yeah, it always struck me that they wouldn't last long as infiltration units once the shooting started. I mean, the bit we see of Reese fighting one in the future war segments, that guy doesn't even bother to explain himself that he's carrying Snausages or something, he immediately pushes way through and starts shooting. They're very much more like the Wounded Soldier or the Child in Phillip K. Dick's "Second Variety", a humanoid anti-personal weapon, close enough to pass cursory human inspection in the field so they can probe enemy lines, neutralize scouts, hunting isolated remnants, akin to what we see in Salvation, where even the 600s fool Reese enough leave cover and to get within firing range, despite having tattered rubber skin and being 8 feet tall. But, with the canned responses and fragile skin, their illusion doesn't seem like it would last long enough to do some major penetration and sabotage of human settlements. Once the shooting starts and the skin falls away, the Terminators probably had a life expectancy of minutes.
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Feb 20, 2015 21:39
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Kingtheninja posted:Not sure if it's been brought up before, but the new movie looks like it takes place in two different points of the past. In the trailer you see Arnold shooting the original 84 terminator (I've been waiting for you) and yes he looks a bit older. But when you see the scenes at the bridge or the helicopter bit at the end he looks much older than in 84. His hair looks a little longer and gray. This came up a couple of months ago too... I don't think this is a spoiler since it's been previously leaked by the studio and in the EW article (and is even kind of in the trailer), but just in case... Supposedly an Arnold model T-800 was sent back to when Sarah Connor was a little girl, and has raised her and been a "father figure" for her since then. You can see this here...  Also, the skin on the terminators supposedly ages like normal human skin does, which would explain why the T-800 sent back to the 1970s to protect and raise young Sarah now looks like a 67-year-old man. As far as the modern cars on the bridge goes, there's a quick scene in the trailer of what looks to be another time displacement machine that's clearly NOT the one that's presumably the one built by Skynet from the beginning of the trailer:  It looks kind of unpolished, so it's possibly one built by the Resistance or Sarah? So I would also assume that there will be some additional time-jumping.
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Feb 20, 2015 22:47
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That's what I was wondering. The 84 Arnold already looked aged but parts of the trailer made him look even older than that.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:00
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I think they had Cameron in TSCC eating, I don't fully remember though. In that show they also had one Terminator force a scientist to make him a new skinsuit, were it was alluded to that that stuff just looks the same but works differently than what people have. I guess it's not canon but with this franchise what's canon really.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:36
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I think James Cameron said that he envisioned that Terminators had a heart and stomach sort of deal inside their body to provide nourishment for their skin, but it doesn't seem to have ever really gone anywhere. Like others have said, I always thought Terminators were a short infiltration job - they're not long term spies, they just look human enough to get inside a bunker and start shooting. Also, these Genesys screenplay rumors going around the Internet sound incredibly disheartening, wow.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:41
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The show also showed the earlier infiltration model with rubber skin, that was a pretty good episode. The human form isn't just some random clay-like substance randomly attached to a skeleton, there are many complexities going into a human looking like a human. That's why with every try to portray a mock-human realistically over the centuries (and specifically with computer technology in the last 30 years) it still only takes our brains a split second or at worst a double-take to look through that ruse nearly instantly.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:51
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Milky Moor posted:Also, these Genesys screenplay rumors going around the Internet sound incredibly disheartening, wow. Go on...
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Feb 21, 2015 02:00
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PriorMarcus posted:Go on... It's something like... When Reese is being sent back in time, John Connor is attacked by the T-5000 - which is a cloud of nanomachine Terminators (or something)! Reese has to watch Connor get turned into a new sort of Terminator from the inside out as he is sent back in time. Connor has been heavily implied to be the big bad guy of the film and is apparently sent back in time to ensure Skynet's rise. http://www.terminatorfiles.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=6122 edit: http://screenrant.com/terminator-5-genisys-plot-details/ Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 02:08
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It certainly leads me to understand why they cast that guy in that role, however.
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Feb 21, 2015 02:09
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Milky Moor posted:I think James Cameron said that he envisioned that Terminators had a heart and stomach sort of deal inside their body to provide nourishment for their skin, but it doesn't seem to have ever really gone anywhere. Like others have said, I always thought Terminators were a short infiltration job - they're not long term spies, they just look human enough to get inside a bunker and start shooting. To continue on this (because I don't want to even recognize Gensys), the Terminators busting in shooting and getting killed would be enough to do some damage to a human camp. If they can't wipe out all the humans in some redoubt, then they can notify Skynet of the location of a settlement and send in the various Hunter-Killers to finish the job. The human resistance would be in such disarray from the Terminator attack that they could easily be crushed by the H-Ks. Or the Terminators flush them out for the aerial H-Ks with the threat of more H-K support on the way.
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Feb 21, 2015 03:31
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Yeah, the entire reason terminators exist is to gain enough human trust to counter the decentralized highly secretive guerilla tactics the resistance adopted.
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Feb 21, 2015 03:52
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Milky Moor posted:It's something like... That Russian script synopsis sounds phenomenally stupid. I hope it's all true.
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Feb 21, 2015 04:57
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  Kingtheninja posted:Not sure if it's been brought up before, but the new movie looks like it takes place in two different points of the past. In the trailer you see Arnold shooting the original 84 terminator (I've been waiting for you) and yes he looks a bit older. But when you see the scenes at the bridge or the helicopter bit at the end he looks much older than in 84. His hair looks a little longer and gray.
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Feb 22, 2015 02:51
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Kharn_The_Betrayer posted:I always felt that when the T-800 says he understand why humans cry he was saying that he understood it on a mechanical level as in emotions being a logical process. You see as an infiltration unit he might be able to imitate human responses to certain stimuli in order to better blend in but like he says emotion is something he cannot do. So when he hugs John Connor hes not doing so out of affection, hes doing it because he probably supposes its what John needs at that moment to let go of him. Another way of seeing it is the in way the T-800 immediately comes to the realization that he has to be destroyed. He doesn't hesitate for a second that he has to die in order to save the future, even if it means hurting Connor emotionally. Isn't that the point of the conversation about how the Terminator would feel if John died? He comes to understand human attachments as analogous to how his mission gives his existence purpose. This allows him to form an attachment to John beyond the parameters of the mission, and to express conflict at having to give up his relationship with John in order to protect him. He "knows now why [we] cry" because he understands the root of emotional pain, which is having to choose between and lose the things that make existence meaningful. Whether the qualia he experiences due to this conflict is identical to ours is ultimately as meaningless an exercise in solipsism as it ever is. E: "his mission" is just duty or principle or just having to give up one's life for another or some other unavoidable necessity like in countless other stories. The ending of Shane makes a good analogy. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 10:45
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Wade Wilson posted:Also Colossus: The Forbin Project. I'm extremely tickled that when I clicked on this just now here's the message it gives: quote:This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated.
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Feb 24, 2015 00:10
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Milky Moor posted:It's something like... I glanced at these for a minute and all things considered, there's something about the film I haven't heard a lot about. I'm spoilering in case. Given all the promotions for the film, the use of - - Matt Smith - - in the film hasn't been talked about all that much. However, watching the trailer after reading some of those, at about the 53s mark, a figure that looks like blurry Smith in the background when everyone is watching them send Kyle back turns and looks right at John. If the description/rumors from those links are accurate, and what is shown is what I think it is, I'm surprised the filmmakers chose to go that direction with them.
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Feb 24, 2015 10:42
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JediTalentAgent posted:I glanced at these for a minute and all things considered, there's something about the film I haven't heard a lot about. I'm spoilering in case. Given all the promotions for the film, the use of - - Matt Smith - - in the film hasn't been talked about all that much. Well, looking at what you suggested... the head snap-to-look motion of that figure is very Terminator-esque!
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Feb 24, 2015 10:57
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Sarcastro posted:I'm extremely tickled that when I clicked on this just now here's the message it gives: Yeah, it was apparently removed because a remake is in the works. You can watch it on Netflix, I think.
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Feb 24, 2015 17:52
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T3 was on at work again and while I stand by that it overall was pretty crappy, I think it's pretty enjoyable to watch from when Skynet gets turned on to the end. I thought Salvation was pretty okay too though.
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Feb 24, 2015 18:31
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JediTalentAgent posted:I glanced at these for a minute and all things considered, there's something about the film I haven't heard a lot about. I'm spoilering in case. Given all the promotions for the film, the use of - - Matt Smith - - in the film hasn't been talked about all that much. You know looking at the trailer again I think you may be right and I don't think I've seen that noticed anywhere yet. It is a very Matt Smith-like face and is clearly a Terminator.
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Feb 24, 2015 18:46
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Lurdiak posted:directed by Paul WS Anderson and shot in a month. You just triggered me so hard there. Ugh.
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Feb 26, 2015 14:54
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Reviving thread after a month of zero activity for a new trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xt5tZyrMZI JK Simmons getting some screentime in the new trailer. Looks like he might be the comic relief?
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Mar 30, 2015 07:34
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 Cross-promotion at Wrestlemania.
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Mar 30, 2015 07:56
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JediTalentAgent posted:Reviving thread after a month of zero activity for a new trailer: Also, because it's a trailer, it has that stupid loving "there's a storm coming" in the middle of the "can't be reasoned with" quote which annoys me in comically over-the-top ways.
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Mar 30, 2015 11:08
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Simply Simon posted:They are seriously pushing "hey guys this is really truly honestly a Terminator movie" with all the blatant references in shots and lines. Probably immediately followed by an assumed "...unlike Salvation". The trailer looks pretty good, in my opinion, and it definitely feels like Terminator. I'd be pretty excited for it if I hadn't read those leaks. The continued lack of Matt Smith in the trailer, however, makes it definitely seem like the leaks are legit. 
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Mar 30, 2015 11:31
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To clarify: I too think the trailer presents a film which I would want to watch, because they reference T2 so much, I just hate that cliche-rear end "storm" line.
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Mar 30, 2015 11:50
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Matt Smith turns my stomach. He looks like he's part goblin.
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Mar 30, 2015 14:20
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Milky Moor posted:The trailer looks pretty good, in my opinion, and it definitely feels like Terminator. I'd be pretty excited for it if I hadn't read those leaks. The continued lack of Matt Smith in the trailer, however, makes it definitely seem like the leaks are legit. What leaks are those, sorry? It actually looks like a decent, fun ride. Those photos were so loving awful, though, that they rather poisoned the well.
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Mar 30, 2015 22:08
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