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Asuron posted:Show me a game that has used rape as a subject so we can actually discuss this properly. The only game I can recall that ever used rape in the story was the Witcher 2 and it was used to show how terrible the person doing it was. Most times it's used as 'Fridging' type character motivation, sure, but there's at least two examples that at least try to take rape seriously. You actually have to go back a bit but Sierra's Phantasmogoria is a kinda-sorta retelling of The Shining with a pretty graphic marital rape sequence in it. It's buried in a game with some pretty goofy stuff in it but the scene is pretty drat gripping. Also Ellen's story in 'I Have No Mouth...' revolves about her confronting a sexual assault she once endured. Again pretty drat gripping and, again, in a game filled with goofy poo poo. Probably not the best examples, but I'll argue that I just dredged up two games that are nearly 30 years old that at least tried to deal with rape and the consequences of it in a far more mature and respectful way than most modern games. horay i started a new page with this and i said 'at least' at least 3 times because i shouldnt be posting as soon as ive woken up KayTee fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 09:58
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MonsieurChoc posted:That can't be true in a world where games like Drakengard and Kane & Lynch 2 exist, as they are pure expressions of the gamemakers hatred for their audience in game form. There's also the quintessential Takeshi's Challenge, which is the conjoined manifestation of drunken resign, cruel apathy, and wry melancholy.
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Feb 22, 2015 10:33
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^^^ These men are PAWNS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLKZtppbm_Q
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Feb 22, 2015 10:40
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Beefstew posted:^^^ These men are PAWNS I think they're wonderful 
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Feb 22, 2015 12:27
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A good poster posted:I think they're wonderful I can't believe that these men may control the fate of the Middle East!
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Feb 22, 2015 15:33
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Genetic Toaster posted:I can't believe that these men may control the fate of the Middle East! AI-YAI-HAI!
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Feb 22, 2015 16:41
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What's the layout of the redlettermedia building? Is that little alcove with the VHS shelves part of the same room with the two couches where they watch the Best of the Worst movies? Sometimes when they open the door in that alcove there's a lot of natural light coming in, but it doesn't seem like an exterior door, so does that door go to the big studio where they film half in the bag?
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Feb 22, 2015 17:19
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boom boom boom posted:What's the layout of the redlettermedia building? Are you planning an assassination raid? You're making me nervous. Plinkett was bad but not fatwa bad.....
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Feb 22, 2015 17:27
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Clip-On Fedora posted:Has anyone been watching Gamegrump's playthrough of Legend of Zelda 2? It's actually been pretty amazing. Dan is killing it at that game, and he reminded me of why I liked it when I was a kid.
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Feb 22, 2015 18:03
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boom boom boom posted:What's the layout of the redlettermedia building? Is that little alcove with the VHS shelves part of the same room with the two couches where they watch the Best of the Worst movies? Sometimes when they open the door in that alcove there's a lot of natural light coming in, but it doesn't seem like an exterior door, so does that door go to the big studio where they film half in the bag? Studio? What? They film in Mr. Plinkett's house. I emailed them asking if I could have a tour, but they said the house in on the bottom of the lake right now. Their insurance doesn't cover SCUBA gear for visitors (premiums were too high, I think it'll be a stretch goal on Patreon soon).
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Feb 22, 2015 18:11
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Speaking of game design talk, Jack and Rich posted a thing about it! To be frank about the title they chose, they managed to pick one of the least serious CODs that sort of gets more and more goofy about itself. (Plus it's less attractive to "Howcum??? They hate our freedoms?? Go help Noriega with North looking at you from the future" so hoooraaaay) IronicDongz posted:I really wish those guys would talk more seriously about game design more often, because they often seem to have viewpoints that are somewhat in opposition but not so much that they can't find common ground. Not like Arin/Jon where they would just talk in circles about "game feel" with Arin completely not understanding the concept of immersion and Jon handwaving aside gameplay complaints. Or "Tetris is not a videogame" being a thing that isn't grounds for getting laughed at on that circle. Kunster fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 18:29
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Hey Wicked, as a trans person, you need to learn the meaning of the word 'nuance', you dumb stupid idiot.
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Feb 22, 2015 18:38
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Kunster posted:Or "Tetris is not a videogame" being a thing that isn't grounds for getting laughed at on that circle. Wait, who thinks that Tetris isn't a video game and why?
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Feb 22, 2015 18:44
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JonTron has stated on the middle of a GameGrumps episode that Tetris was too simple and too quick to pick up to be considered "a real videogame". (Refered to it as an "not a real game, an iphone game") sorta thing. I did hear some videogame streamers try to pin Tetris as "not a game but rather a concept" as well.
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Feb 22, 2015 18:49
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Man, I'm glad I can't stand JonTron in GameGrumps. I still like his reviews, but Dan is just so much better.
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Feb 22, 2015 18:54
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You can argue that Tetris isn't a game, but a puzzle, but saying it's not a video game is just bizarre. Also I made a new review, dealing with Christian Weston Chandler's musical output. I don't really recommend the video if you're not already familiar with the guy (and with my videos), I'm just posting it here for the people who already follow my stuff. EDIT: I'm being informed that it's copyright blocked in the USA. I've got a fix I'm working on, but it's gonna take a number of hours. DStecks fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 19:00
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I got so into the Zelda 2 episode of Game Grumps I decided to play while I listened to them in the background. I always liked this game but I'm enjoying it much more now that I know how to kill the knights without any trouble. I have one crystal left so I'm not sure if that's for "Ganon's" tower or not. edit: Yeah, I like Dan more than Jon Tron too.
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Feb 22, 2015 19:02
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As far as I'm concerned, anything that's ever been a pack-in title for a Nintendo console (i.e., Tetris for original Game Boy) is a video game.
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Feb 22, 2015 19:08
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Tetris isn't a video game. It's the only video game.
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Feb 22, 2015 19:15
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WickedHate posted:Man, I'm glad I can't stand JonTron in GameGrumps. I still like his reviews, but Dan is just so much better.
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Feb 22, 2015 19:36
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I've only listened to a few game grumps episodes and I think part of the reason why I never really got into it was because of Jontron. My guess is that younger people/kids probably like him a lot which is worth something I suppose.   He also said that Zelda 3 was the most overrated game of all time and Ocarina was better.
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Feb 22, 2015 20:01
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Kunster posted:JonTron has stated on the middle of a GameGrumps episode that Tetris was too simple and too quick to pick up to be considered "a real videogame". (Refered to it as an "not a real game, an iphone game") sorta thing. a game you play with video is a video game
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Feb 22, 2015 20:11
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:I've only listened to a few game grumps episodes and I think part of the reason why I never really got into it was because of Jontron. My guess is that younger people/kids probably like him a lot which is worth something I suppose. Jontron yells a lot and plays a part, which works... alright when it's a review that he edits, less so when it's part of an informal sit-on-the-couch and shoot the poo poo type thing. The only downside of him no longer being on Gamegrumps is that Arin sometimes veers a little into that territory himself in an effort to entertain now. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 20:13
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Threw up a quick review of Redwall by Brian Jacques, the medieval-light-fantasy-but-with-rodents book where mice are white people and rats are the Huns.
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Feb 22, 2015 21:37
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around rats never relax. edit: Seriously I loved those books as a kid but it annoyed me that there wasn't a single good or reformed "bad" animal. I really wanted to read about a rat or something that was good but had to prove himself to the abbey. The last one I read had a couple stoats? or something that ended up as wards in the Abbey. The second they turned bad and killed someone in the abbey I instantly stopped reading and never read another one. edit2: Just finished your video, As far as I know things never changed. Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 21:39
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There's a lot of implicit racism in the idea of some groups of people being inherently worse/more evil by virtue of their birth, even if they're woodland creatures, and that's a not-small part of what wrecked that series for me as a kid. Every book he goes on and on about how awful and evil rats/weasels/'vermin' are and they practically never do anything good, and while having whole groups of people which are inherently more prone to steal and lie and kill and just be innately bad is lovely enough, especially in a series of books aimed at children, there was that one book in which the main character was a weasel who was raised in redwall, which I(and the other couple of nerds I knew as a id who also read those books) was excited for as a kid because I wanted a book about a good 'vermin' lead. But the book goes out of its way to show that he's just driven to be a terrible person naturally because of who his parents were, completely independently of how he is actually raised and the environment he grows up in. none of that poo poo matters, he had parents who were X thing and X is bad so he is bad. At the end, he literally sacrifices his own life via taking a thrown spear to save the person it was aimed at. Which anyone reading would assume is all a final act to redeem him, but no! None of the characters think so, including the person he just gave his life to save, who seriously says[paraphrasing] "he may have done this one good thing, but all in all he was rotten. some creatures are just bad." Which is absolutely loving crazy. This is the message you're trying to get readers to take? This whole situation you've written screams the exact opposite. This character gave their life to save you and you're saying they were inherently evil because of, genetics more or less? gently caress off brian
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Feb 22, 2015 21:55
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there's a redwall book where they spend the whole book chasing a kidnapper villain to fight him and then at the end right before they catch up to him he trips, falls into a hole and dies
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Feb 22, 2015 21:57
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The only good rat ended up living as a hermit as not to upset the good animals of the forest. And there was a cat in the first book who was "neutral". It is completely insane, and I don't know what we're supposed to learn from it. It doesn't even reflect real animals.
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Feb 22, 2015 21:59
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Jack Gladney posted:Video games can't be art because they are vehicles for the wish fulfillment of the player. It's like if every movie were Indiana Jones or Star Wars. The medium is inherently juvenile which is why all of its most vocal defenders or advocates are giant weeping babies who throw tantrums every five minutes. You've got very interesting ideas about what constitutes 'art': 1: Something is racist if racist people consume it or like it for seemingly any reason 2: Something isn't art if it involves 'wish fulfilment' for the people consuming it 3: Indiana Jones and Star Wars are 'less art' than other films because they are 'juvenile', and also because they fulfil someone's wishes to see a film about space or adventure. 4: Whether or not something fits these definitions of art has some sort of meaning or purpose in the wider world. You do know that literally all films are vehicles for wish fulfilment, in that they fulfil the creator's wish to create a film or tell a certain story, right? Furthermore art is all about desire, especially in a commodity-driven culture, and the entire point of large swaths of art-reading is to come to a better understanding of this process and the affect it has on people. I don't know how someone who recognises Tetris as the best game can be wrong on so many other counts. You'd better be really good at Tetris when you're first against the wall or you'll have your work cut out for you in my gulag. MonsieurChoc posted:That can't be true in a world where games like Drakengard and Kane & Lynch 2 exist, as they are pure expressions of the gamemakers hatred for their audience in game form. Hbomberguy fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 22:00
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IronicDongz posted:At the end, he literally sacrifices his own life via taking a thrown spear to save the person it was aimed at. Which anyone reading would assume is all a final act to redeem him, but no! None of the characters think so, including the person he just gave his life to save, who seriously says[paraphrasing] "he may have done this one good thing, but all in all he was rotten. some creatures are just bad." Not having read the book in question (I've only read one Redwall book and it was back in middle school so I barely remember it), are you sure this wasn't meant to be a bit of irony? Like, this guy was really good but these mice can't see it? Obviously they're still the heroes but they can be flawed. Of course, I'm not optimistic that this is the case given that this is a book for children, and you probably would have mentioned if it was obviously true.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:03
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There's also the possibility the character or their wider society is subtly a racist one - or that good and bad in the context of Redwall's bizarres animal kingdoms carry a different sort of meaning to ours. e: vvvv - Yeah! The story functions as a really interesting reflection of that sort of game. It's very clearly created by people who don't give a poo poo about the '''original canon'''' of K&L Dead Men, considering none of the first game really comes up and iirc the story continues from neither of the original games' endings. It might as well be two of the gears of war dudes or some of the codblopses. Hbomberguy fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 22:06
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Hbomberguy posted:Kane and Lynch 2 has the second-top spot next to Hotline Miami (e: and, if you hadn't guessed, Tetris) on my list of Maximum Art Games, and perhaps has the best video game punchline of all time (it's called dog days and the final boss is two dogs you cap in one hit each before running away and the credits roll) That's actually why I mentionned. That game is the opposite of fun to play, but there's soemthing artful about the ways it just shits on the main characters and everything they stand for.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:07
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Ha, wow, I didn't look any further in the series when I made the review, had no idea it got that bad. Kind of want to read and review the rest of the series just to see how lovely it gets.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:07
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The only good rat ended up living as a hermit as not to upset the good animals of the forest. And there was a cat in the first book who was "neutral". Jsor posted:Not having read the book in question (I've only read one Redwall book and it was back in middle school so I barely remember it), are you sure this wasn't meant to be a bit of irony? Like, this guy was really good but these mice can't see it? Obviously they're still the heroes but they can be flawed. I think grand total there are two "good" vermin-the aforementioned rat hermit, and then one lady pirate or something who kills some lizards on a boat and then confesses she always wanted to be good while she's dying. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 22:12
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I just finished the video. Yeah, I don't think he was critiquing the society as racist in the later book...  You mentioned Tolkein when you talked about races being inherently evil. I'm not an expert on Tolkein (I can't stand the guy's prose enough to dedicate myself to that, for one), but as I understand it -- it's not that they're evil because they're orcs, it's that they're orcs because they're evil. In that an orc that became good would spontaneously become an elf. You can still do some nasty racist poo poo with that sort of idea, but I think it's a lot cooler and has a lot more potential for not being terrible than "these guys are evil because they are".
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Feb 22, 2015 22:15
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Yeah, Tolkein at least has the excuse that goblins, orcs, ogres etc. are 'corrupted' versions of men, elves, ents... not the greatest excuse, but at least it is one. There's bigger issues than the orc thing in how firstly the only humans fighting evil are white, and how Tolkein based Dwarves off of his readings of Jews, from the "exiled from native lands" aspect, to their language, which he made to be an analogue of a Semitic language with some Hebrew-related phonology. I can't find the specific letter he wrote about it that I'm looking for but I did find a quote from him saying "I do think of the 'Dwarves' like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue..." poparena posted:Ha, wow, I didn't look any further in the series when I made the review, had no idea it got that bad. Kind of want to read and review the rest of the series just to see how lovely it gets. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 22:29
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Asuron posted:Show me a game that has used rape as a subject so we can actually discuss this properly. The only game I can recall that ever used rape in the story was the Witcher 2 and it was used to show how terrible the person doing it was. FEAR 2. Though I haven't played the game myself, so I don't know how it actually handles it. Jsor posted:I just finished the video. Yeah, I don't think he was critiquing the society as racist in the later book... From what I've read, Tolkien was never truly satisfied with the orcs all being evil since that clashed with his own Catholic beliefs in salvation being available to everyone. The best kludge he could come up with is that the orcs are evil because they were turned evil as part of their transformation, and he was never very comfortable with that idea either. INH5 fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 22:36
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Jsor posted:I just finished the video. Yeah, I don't think he was critiquing the society as racist in the later book... Orcs are elves that were tortured and corrupted by Morgoth's magic into twisted evil things. Trolls are something similar off of giants, I think. They're both basically just demons. Men are really the only races that really has full free will to be good or evil. Elves are lesser 3rd degree angels, dwarves are rock men who are pretty much only interested in Dwarf poo poo, Ents are just trees interested in Tree poo poo, and halflings are an offshoot of men or something. Saruman's Uruk-Hai might actually have free will since they're half man, but who knows. They're half demon and created by essentially a fallen angel.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:42
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IronicDongz posted:Yeah, Tolkein at least has the excuse that goblins, orcs, ogres etc. are 'corrupted' versions of men, elves, ents... not the greatest excuse, but at least it is one. The other excuse was that Lord of the Rings was published in 1954 and there's only 4 books there. The Redwall series on the other hand is made up of 22 books that were largely published in the 80's/90's/00's.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:42
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Now that I think about it the only things I like from Redwall are the words 'Eulalia' and 'Salamandastron'
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Feb 22, 2015 22:43
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