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MonsieurChoc posted:Well, the Gold Faction didn't really exist before the return of the solars in the old editions either: there wasn't really any reason to when there weren't any solars. Right from beginning, from the 1st edition core through into the 1st and 2nd edition Sidereal books, both Bronze and Gold formed at the time of great prophecy, based around supporters of one of the two big contending visions.
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Feb 23, 2015 05:53
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Mile'ionaha posted:I've heard this referenced but don't know if I've ever seen it, what book is it in? Compass of Celestial Directions: Yu Shan, page 8. It's a younger and buffer Kejak drunkenly ruminating that the heavenly god of health, Uvanavu, is behind the Great Contagion as revenge for loving up the Solars centuries/millenia ago. To be fair, Uvanavu actually did threaten to spread a horrible death plague all that time, which is probably why no one believes him when he says the Deathlords were behind it all.
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Feb 23, 2015 05:58
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LimitedReagent posted:Right from beginning, from the 1st edition core through into the 1st and 2nd edition Sidereal books, both Bronze and Gold formed at the time of great prophecy, based around supporters of one of the two big contending visions. And the original Gold Faction was mostly wiped out before the Usurpation, with their survivors and reincarnations doing jack poo poo during the millenias that followed because, really, why bother.
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Feb 23, 2015 06:11
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Traditional Games › Exalted 3E - because, really, why bother?
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Feb 23, 2015 08:16
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While not actually a real FACTION, it does make sense for there to have been various philosophical undercurrents of "well it sure would be nice to have a bunch of solars around to deal with this, WOULDN'T IT." Even partially among those who supported the usurpation in the first place.
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Feb 23, 2015 09:59
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reignonyourparade posted:While not actually a real FACTION, it does make sense for there to have been various philosophical undercurrents of "well it sure would be nice to have a bunch of solars around to deal with this, WOULDN'T IT." Even partially among those who supported the usurpation in the first place. Particularly during the Great Contagion/Balorian Crusade. And if anyone ever finds out that the Deathlords ate the ghosts of dead Solars, that's one more big one for the guilt pile. Anyway, back when the vote for what to do was taking place, there were both a Gold and a Bronze faction. After Bronze won the vote, most of Gold either joined and did their duty or stood by and did nothing. Those who tried to stand against the Bronze Prophecy either ultimately failed or were executed. There's a good chance that a few of them are partially to blame for a few Solars surviving long enough to not end up in the Jade Prison. Once the Usurpation finished, though, the Gold Faction had all but ceased to exist as anything other than a 'what if' sentiment and a handful of dudes running the Cult of the Illuminated. The weren't factions, because there wasn't political turmoil. It was too late to change course, whether you were happy with it or not. It was like running as a Republican in a totally red state - everyone was just automatically Bronze, because it wasn't anything anyone even thought about, there were no other options. The return of the Solars, though, threw all of that into turmoil. The Gold Faction exploding in numbers as Solars become an option again. The Silver Faction starting to actually have a voice as the Bronze monopoly breaks down. Sidereals increasingly identifying as independents with their own agendas. The old guard - including Ketchup Carjack - increasingly approaching the end of their lifespans. That's what it was in 2e. They're probably going to be much more vague with it in 3e, because their general fluff philosophy so far has been 'being vague makes it mysterious and mystical, right?' And you don't get much more mysteriously mystical than the Sidereal Exalted.
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Feb 23, 2015 14:37
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Here's a setting question: when do eclipses actually happen in Creation? Like, actual eclipses with the actual moon and sun. Are those a sort of erratic (but predictable) thing like they are IRL or is there some symmetry or regularity to them? Obviously they happen, or there wouldn't be an Eclipse Caste. I'm just not sure how rare or spooky they are.
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Feb 23, 2015 14:48
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I'm fairly certain that eclipses only happen during Calibration.
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Feb 23, 2015 16:06
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Attorney at Funk posted:Here's a setting question: when do eclipses actually happen in Creation? Like, actual eclipses with the actual moon and sun. Are those a sort of erratic (but predictable) thing like they are IRL or is there some symmetry or regularity to them? Obviously they happen, or there wouldn't be an Eclipse Caste. I'm just not sure how rare or spooky they are. a semi-related question, the sun is no longer a giant flying battleship, right?
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Feb 23, 2015 16:07
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Attorney at Funk posted:Here's a setting question: when do eclipses actually happen in Creation? Like, actual eclipses with the actual moon and sun. Are those a sort of erratic (but predictable) thing like they are IRL or is there some symmetry or regularity to them? Obviously they happen, or there wouldn't be an Eclipse Caste. I'm just not sure how rare or spooky they are. This is a good question and I have no idea. I'd guess that eclipses can happen outside of calibration but am not sure.
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Feb 23, 2015 16:19
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IIRC they happen during auspicious happenings. The main canon reference I can remember is when the jade prison broke, which was supposedly the first eclipse since the usurpation.
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Feb 23, 2015 17:00
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Ferrinus posted:This is a good question and I have no idea. I'd guess that eclipses can happen outside of calibration but am not sure. When thematically appropriate, of course. 
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Feb 23, 2015 17:50
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Kenlon posted:When thematically appropriate, of course. I mean if this is the answer, that's legit. I just figured, if any game would have a specific answer to a question like that, it'd be Exalted. I'm asking cause I'm starting to sketch out plans for running an Exalted game and one of the things I want to do is run preludes for the PCs covering the moment of their Exaltation. It's real easy to, for instance, peg the dramatic moment of a Dawn exaltation. But an eclipse is a little muddier. (You don't actually *need* to wait for when the sun is in that position to Exalt to that caste, I don't think, but come on. Come on.)
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Feb 23, 2015 17:56
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Ferrinus posted:This is a good question and I have no idea. I'd guess that eclipses can happen outside of calibration but am not sure. They happen whenever someone does something so rad that it transcends a 3-point stunt and Sol and Luna feel the need to high-five each other over it.
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Feb 23, 2015 17:59
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I've never really liked the idea that only two eclipses have happened in the past two thousand years or so. It means that most people in Creation would have NO IDEA what an eclipse even is. Sure, most of them saw the one a few years back when the Jade Prison broke, but they'd probably just think it was a one-off weird event that doesn't have a specific name. So while every other caste has some sort of evocative image from their caste name that the people of Creation would understand, Eclipses don't get that, making the potentially cool scene where they rediscover the actual name of their caste a lot less epic. Dawn: "Ah, I am a Dawn! I drive back the night and bring the light of the sun to the world!" Zenith: "I am a Zenith! I embody the height of the sun's power, the unassailable bastion of right and glory!" Twilight: "I am a Twilight! I am the line between day and night, the walker between worlds and the last defense against darkness!" Night: "I am a Night! I go forth into the lands of evil and remind them that even darkness is no barrier to light!" Eclipse: "I am an Eclipse! That's... cool I guess?"
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Feb 23, 2015 18:00
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The breaking of the Jade Prison was a total eclipse of the heart.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:08
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:The breaking of the Jade Prison was a total eclipse of the heart. Forever's gonna start tonight.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:13
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MadcapViking posted:I'm fairly certain that eclipses only happen during Calibration. No, Eclipses (the caste) are associated with both eclipses AND Calibration. This is important for a few Solar Sorcery spells that can only be used when caste-appropriate. They represent liminality and extraordinary circumstances, joining things with clear or unclear edges. Even if people had never seen an Eclipse before, they would understand them as a time of exception, a time out of time. Calibration, by the way, is kinda the best thing.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:20
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Attorney at Funk posted:I mean if this is the answer, that's legit. I just figured, if any game would have a specific answer to a question like that, it'd be Exalted. In Yu-Shan, the sky changes based on who's currently winning the Games of Divinity. Even in Creation, the stars change according to Sidereal machinations - when one of them rewrites your horoscope, the stars actually move position to enact it. So, probably, any astrological phenomenon can potentially happen whenever based on what heaven happens to decree.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:41
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slut chan posted:IIRC they happen during auspicious happenings. The main canon reference I can remember is when the jade prison broke, which was supposedly the first eclipse since the usurpation. I always fall back on Flat Earth stuff when I need to figure out how Exalted works, because that amuses me. Since a lunar eclipse wouldn't work if the Flat Earth couldn't have anything behind or beneath it, instead they're caused by a "shadow object" orbiting the sun that occasionally comes between the sun and moon, totally or partially obscuring it. Just create a god of eclipses who orbits the Unconquered Sun as he makes his journey, basking in the resplendent glory of the most high and rarely, accidentally occluding the light cast by the flaming chariot.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:53
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I'm not sure when eclipses happen, but in terms of the setting's mythology, they're the original source of the Sun and Luna's bromance. Back in the day, when the whole 'sun and moon' things were relatively new concepts in Creation, Luna went full trickster mode and decided to block the sun, trying to play some kind of unexpected night related gambit. This had never happened with any other astral body, because nothing else could stand so close to the sun without being incinerated. During that first eclipse, when the sun and moon's faces were right up close, Luna whispered an unknown secret to the Sun, and after that, they were friends for life. Eclipses are named after that rare phenomenon, where rules don't matter, Solars learn secret things from non-Solars, and their journeys take them to strange and foreign places. Calibration was understandably rolled into that thematic pile. As for when it happens? I don't know. It could be as predictable as the phases of the moon, or as shifting as Luna's forms.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:40
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Mile'ionaha posted:No, Eclipses (the caste) are associated with both eclipses AND Calibration. This is important for a few Solar Sorcery spells that can only be used when caste-appropriate.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:46
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Let me answer that question with a question: Is wittow Nessus gonna cry? Is he gonna cry? Is heeee? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 23, 2015 19:48
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Nessus posted:Here's a question: If Eclipses represent liminality, does this mean they will need to have extra-huge versions of all the Liminal charms, since as Solars they also represent being the best and strongest? As far as I can tell, Liminal Exalted are just lazy ripoffs of Prometheans instead of being anything to do with actual liminal moments, states, or locations. So yes, Eclipses will likely be far more about thresholds, moments of change, and standing between and apart from things than the so-called Liminals. Mind you, that's based on the very limited information we've managed to get about Liminals so far, and might in no way represent what they end up being.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:01
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Completely false. Liminals are actually totally sweet and cool ripoffs of Prometheans.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:18
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jagadaishio posted:As far as I can tell, Liminal Exalted are just lazy ripoffs of Prometheans instead of being anything to do with actual liminal moments, states, or locations. So yes, Eclipses will likely be far more about thresholds, moments of change, and standing between and apart from things than the so-called Liminals.
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Feb 23, 2015 21:49
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Attorney at Funk posted:Completely false. Liminals are actually totally sweet and cool ripoffs of Prometheans.
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Feb 23, 2015 21:51
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There is a Essence 7 NPC when they said they would stop that nonsense. That is all.
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Feb 23, 2015 21:57
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The Essence 7 NPC listed in the book is Ahlat, Southern God of War and Cattle. He is one of the most powerful gods in the setting, and his Essence and charms reflect this. However, his charms are notably NOT "yours but higher numbers", they are pretty unique Ahlat-Trick Stuff. His base die pools are about the same as a combat Solar's, and his excellency cap is 10 at best (which is also the same as a combat solar). He has quite a few charms that allows him specifically to be a threat to a group of slightly-weaker enemies. He's also got the ability to bless a warrior or army with his divine power. He's basically perfectly set up to either be a Boss Fight for a group of mid-level Solars, an epic duel for a single high-power Solar, or as a mentor/ally for the PC Circle. Other than having an Essence of 7, what do you actually object to about him? What about his stats, charms or story role is problematic for the game, or forces things to escalate?
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Feb 23, 2015 22:11
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Kaza42 posted:The Essence 7 NPC listed in the book is Ahlat, Southern God of War and Cattle. He is one of the most powerful gods in the setting, and his Essence and charms reflect this. However, his charms are notably NOT "yours but higher numbers", they are pretty unique Ahlat-Trick Stuff. His base die pools are about the same as a combat Solar's, and his excellency cap is 10 at best (which is also the same as a combat solar). He has quite a few charms that allows him specifically to be a threat to a group of slightly-weaker enemies. He's also got the ability to bless a warrior or army with his divine power. He's basically perfectly set up to either be a Boss Fight for a group of mid-level Solars, an epic duel for a single high-power Solar, or as a mentor/ally for the PC Circle. Other than having an Essence of 7, what do you actually object to about him? What about his stats, charms or story role is problematic for the game, or forces things to escalate? Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Totally sweet and cool ripoffs of Prometheans that also find a use for Sin-Eaters' crappy niche, never forget.
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Feb 23, 2015 22:14
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I don't think there's anything wrong in principle with above-5 Essence as long as above-5 Essence doesn't constitute an entire sphere of play that trivializes and is untouchable to actual player-characters. It's a bit of a slippery slope, but I didn't look at Ahlat or Octavian's writeups and think "aw, man, what a ripoff". If the Exalted team applies as much discipline and rigor to sticking to their good ideas as they do defending their stupid ones, it should be fine.
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Feb 23, 2015 22:19
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The Sin Eater's niche is basically "The plot of any given episode of Medium or Ghost Whisperer, except instead of/in addition to psychic visions and talky ghost powers, they can possess monster trucks and haunt buildings. So any given episode of Medium or Ghost Whisperer, or the movie Beetlejuice (You are playing Beetlejuice.)
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Feb 23, 2015 22:19
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Nessus posted:What WAS the sin-eaters' niche?
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Feb 23, 2015 22:22
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Sin-Eaters are basically walking hauntings.
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Feb 23, 2015 22:29
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I have to admit being a little WTF at Octavian being Essence 6 now given that... Well there are one hell of a lot of 2nd circle demons, far more than there are celestials in total if I remember correctly. 2nd circles having crazy high essence and being able to punk experienced solars does not really seem quite right there. That said he was rather joke in 2e with it being quite possible to have a modestly experienced dragon blooded who could kill a theoretical infinite number of Octavians at the same time.
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Feb 23, 2015 23:13
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Totally sweet and cool ripoffs of Prometheans that also find a use for Sin-Eaters' crappy niche, never forget. I disagree. They lose both the Promethean quest for humanity and the Sin-Eater attachment to their pre-death life. They stripped out all of the actually-interesting thematic elements for a tellingly-hollow, lazy ripoff of mostly Prometheans, with a splash of Sin-Eater 'uh, death, I guess?' And this is, again, based on what very, very little we've seen and heard about them so far. They may turn our to actually be rad. But from what I've seen, they rip off the aesthetic of Geist and Promethean while leaving out any of the actual substance. Hopefully they stop feeling like a clumsy, woefully-out-of-place plagiarism by the tone they get a book.
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Feb 23, 2015 23:13
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jagadaishio posted:I disagree. They lose both the Promethean quest for humanity and the Sin-Eater attachment to their pre-death life. They stripped out all of the actually-interesting thematic elements for a tellingly-hollow, lazy ripoff of mostly Prometheans, with a splash of Sin-Eater 'uh, death, I guess?'
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Feb 23, 2015 23:21
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:If you have a problem with elements of Exalted being jumbled parallels of stuff from WoD lines, I have some really, really bad news for you. If you're going to bring up the botch-jobs that have been Lunars, particularly in 1e, I'd point to them as exactly what I'm afraid Liminals will be, and be quite happy if they turn out to be less terrible.
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Feb 23, 2015 23:26
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Patrat posted:I have to admit being a little WTF at Octavian being Essence 6 now given that... Well there are one hell of a lot of 2nd circle demons, far more than there are celestials in total if I remember correctly. 2nd circles having crazy high essence and being able to punk experienced solars does not really seem quite right there. I ran a sample fight between Octavian and various numbers of Tyrant Lizards. Octavian is capable of beating two and being mostly dead (and dying in one of the five, losing). In 5 tries of facing him against three, he died every time, and only killed a single one twice. Tyrant Lizards are the real threat. Edit: To be fair, he is also king of beasts or whatever, so he wouldn't actually need to fight multiple tyrant lizards. It was more done as an example of how silly Tyrant Lizards are. KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Feb 23, 2015 |
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Feb 23, 2015 23:27
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jagadaishio posted:I disagree. They lose both the Promethean quest for humanity and the Sin-Eater attachment to their pre-death life. They stripped out all of the actually-interesting thematic elements for a tellingly-hollow, lazy ripoff of mostly Prometheans, with a splash of Sin-Eater 'uh, death, I guess?'
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Feb 23, 2015 23:37
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