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Broken Cog posted:Huh, they must have removed it with a patch or something, because I can't find them now, but I swear it was there a couple of weeks back. I still remember some of the monsters.
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Feb 24, 2015 06:25
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Away from me, Jackard! For it is written: 'Worship the spoiler your master, and protect him jealously.'
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Feb 24, 2015 06:36
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So I got two of the health protection trinkets on my crusader, he's level 4 with 70 hp and 10% protection, all for the low low cost of -2 speed. What exactly does protection do? I only found some dude claiming each 5% is 3 damage reduction. I also still really recommend any strategy using multiple lunge/lancers, the damage and mobility is a lot of fun. I'd recommend it most for short dungeons, since they do really well while rolling, but a medium usually tires them out enough they need some hookers and booze on returning.
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Feb 24, 2015 07:20
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I don't think anyone knows exactly how protection works, but it seems to be some amount of flat damage reduction that can't reduce a hit below 1 damage. Some people in here were talking about it being based on the guys maxhp, but personally I haven't tried testing rigorously on it to figure it out. Take note that it is really, really good. If you have some sun cloaks on your guys and roll above 75 light, you'll notice a huge amount of less damage taken over the course of a dungeon.
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Feb 24, 2015 07:34
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Chard posted:Away from me, Jackard! For it is written: 'Worship the spoiler your master, and protect him jealously.' I don't know about that. I'm pretty happy to know I'll be fighting an infected Scrotum in the next area.
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Feb 24, 2015 07:37
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Do not start thinking that protection is so good that it makes you invincible though. ...actually it pretty much does when you have a party with you. Its only when you try to solo a level 5 dungeon with a Crusader just to see how broken protection is that it fails.
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Feb 24, 2015 07:50
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Kaldaris posted:I don't know about that. I'm pretty happy to know I'll be fighting an infected Scrotum in the next area. Oh, it's THAT kind of dungeon eh
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Feb 24, 2015 07:50
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Okay, so Hellions are still super loving good. I'm just constantly amazed at how strong they are and how much flexibility they have. I look at a class like Lepers and I see the strengths and weaknesses, but with Hellions I only see strengths and slightly less strong strengths. Also, I pray that they don't nerf Lunge, but I totally see a Grave Robber nerf coming. I hope they don't take the Capcom balancing Street Fighter route and just make everyone weak and unfun. I do think a bit of the Hellion's stuff needed to be dialed back, but I'm still pretty content with where they are right now. I still think Plague Doctors could use some more help, but other than that, I like where the characters are right now in terms of their strength.
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Feb 24, 2015 07:52
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So take four crusaders wearing protection trinkets in, instead of one. I really hope they don't nerd hellion or grave robber, they feel like where everyone should be. Highwaymen and vestals are good, and crusader most of the time feels right. If only my leper would stop missing every time I don't have him buff...
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Feb 24, 2015 08:05
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How exactly does dodge work on AoE's? When you attack enemies it gives a seperate dodge chance for every enemy, and very occasionally only one of them will dodge while the others get hit, but I've noticed that if one dodges an attack it SIGNIFICANTLY increases odds that everyone else will dodge.
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Feb 24, 2015 08:51
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LibbyM posted:How exactly does dodge work on AoE's? When you attack enemies it gives a seperate dodge chance for every enemy, and very occasionally only one of them will dodge while the others get hit, but I've noticed that if one dodges an attack it SIGNIFICANTLY increases odds that everyone else will dodge. Enemies have different dodge values, so the single attack roll that the game probably uses can occasionally be high enough to hit some targets but low enough to miss others.
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Feb 24, 2015 09:07
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yeah, like snow job said. Think of it like ye old D&D terms. Your grapeshot rolled a 16 and say you shot a couple different targets. One needed a 12, one needed a 15 and the jerk in the back is a rabid dog and very dodgy and you needed an 18. You're going to get 2 hits and a miss. Or imagine you shot at three dogs, so it's going to look like 3 misses. I guess the point is that I figure there is only one value for the attack, and that value gets applied to every target it is aimed at. So unless you roll really close to where the dodge breakpoint of hit or miss is, and are aiming at multiple targets with differing dodge values, it's going to look like an all or none hit/miss situation. This would also probably explain why AoE's are all crits or no crits. Roll the right value and its a crit, and that value is the same for all targets.
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Feb 24, 2015 09:19
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What would you think about enemies gaining a Protection stat in darkness? Maybe start at 8% Protection at below 50 light, scaling up to 15% in total darkness? I feel like it would make things a lot riskier because you'd have to put a lot more faith in crits carrying you. Of course, if protection is a function of HP, the Swine Lord would basically be invincible.
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Feb 24, 2015 09:57
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So I started playing this 2 days ago, tutorial went badly my highwayman actually died in it due to a random crit and everything just went to poo poo, I rarely feel in control to be honest. I restarted and now I'm just going into dungeons with crazy heroes and building up good money but lack of deeds is loving me to upgrade the cart some more. Its going slightly better at least but I don't know if I'm doing this right.
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Feb 24, 2015 10:44
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It doesn't matter how much you screw up, the game doesn't have a failure state. As long as you make sure to keep a decent amount of gold banked you won't have to resort to doing suicide runs for cash either. So don't worry if you're doing it wrong, the game will let you know when a run goes horribly wrong  If you need deeds I'm pretty sure you should be doing missions in the Weald whenever they come up.
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Feb 24, 2015 10:49
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Each dungeon has a specialty Heirloom. Ruins for busts, Warrens for portraits, Weald for deeds. All three drop lots of crests.
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Feb 24, 2015 10:49
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I wonder if they're going to add a failure state for the final release; some sort of count down mechanic or something?
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Feb 24, 2015 10:53
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If they do, it had better be its own option. Forcing a doomsday countdown on people who might just lose their best team to a lovely run, which might take a dozen weeks or more to build back up from, is probably a bad idea at this point.
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Feb 24, 2015 11:45
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Captain Invictus posted:If they do, it had better be its own option. Forcing a doomsday countdown on people who might just lose their best team to a lovely run, which might take a dozen weeks or more to build back up from, is probably a bad idea at this point. Seriously. I don't understand why people want a failure state so badly. Just looking through my LP, I have something like 20 hours of gameplay, plus maybe another hour of off-camera maintenance, and I'm still maybe 3-5 hours away from taking down the level 5 dungeon bosses. The Cove adds at least, what, 5 more hours of play? Then who knows how many more the Darkest Dungeon would require. Do you really want to lose 20+ hours of work that badly just to maintain the "purity" of the roguelike classification? Seriously, if this game had the potential to gently caress me over that badly, I just wouldn't play it. In all the time I've been playing, I've only lost 4 characters, only one of which I actually cared about, and only abandoned 3 missions. I don't think I'm bad at this game at all, but even saying that, why would you ever want to make the consequences of bad luck or poor play so steep that you could lose that much of your time investment? That absolutely baffles me.
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Feb 24, 2015 12:04
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Darkest Dungeon is a straight-up ProgressQuest grinder. No way will they add a fail state to the basic game. Maybe as an ironman mode type thing.
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Feb 24, 2015 12:47
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ZypherIM posted:I don't think anyone knows exactly how protection works, but it seems to be some amount of flat damage reduction that can't reduce a hit below 1 damage. Some people in here were talking about it being based on the guys maxhp, but personally I haven't tried testing rigorously on it to figure it out. Take note that it is really, really good. If you have some sun cloaks on your guys and roll above 75 light, you'll notice a huge amount of less damage taken over the course of a dungeon. I just assumed it was MaxHP*protection value reduced per hit, to a minimum of 1 point. There doesn't seem to be a lot of other stats to base something like that off of other than HP, since resistances are so wildly varied. It would make a lot of sense considering prot isn't as noticeable when it's dealing with a huge crit damage shot from the bigger critters. I have noticed that just 5 prot value is very worthwhile given the low healing values in the game though, so I really like getting thick skin quirk. It does show pretty well for Crusaders having their base of 5 prot, they do tend to take a little less damage on average per hit. Sloober fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Feb 24, 2015 |
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Feb 24, 2015 14:17
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Time_pants posted:Seriously. I don't understand why people want a failure state so badly. Just looking through my LP, I have something like 20 hours of gameplay, plus maybe another hour of off-camera maintenance, and I'm still maybe 3-5 hours away from taking down the level 5 dungeon bosses. The Cove adds at least, what, 5 more hours of play? Then who knows how many more the Darkest Dungeon would require. Do you really want to lose 20+ hours of work that badly just to maintain the "purity" of the roguelike classification? There should be some way to lose the game. It can be gradual as hell and incremental and slow. X-com has similar levels of grinding and nobody complains that's it's possible to lose; that's what makes it x-com.
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Feb 24, 2015 14:31
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There should be some way to lose the game. It can be gradual as hell and incremental and slow. X-com has similar levels of grinding and nobody complains that's it's possible to lose; that's what makes it x-com. Losing in this is losing a team you've invested tremendously, I'm not sure a failure state is really necessary either, for a long time I got screwed out of being able to do dungeons by not having any healing classes available, so I had to abandon out a lot of missions because I just couldn't last long enough in them - even going in with a shitload of food to use as makeshift healing. It would suck to have lost the game because the random wagon composition just never came up with anything I really needed. I mean I seriously had to abandon a good 10 missions in a row at the start. The plus side is I got fairly decent with knowing what and who to stun, and I use plague doctors like crazy now because their stun was one of the most useful ones I could find. Xcom is not even comparable here because you can get by without any healing class whatsoever, and you can make any team composed of anything work because the values in that game are a lot more predictable than this one.
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Feb 24, 2015 14:38
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There should be some way to lose the game. It can be gradual as hell and incremental and slow. I would hate this to be honest. Losing these dudes I'm invested in is a good enough punishment. Losing the entire game and having to start over from scratch because I made a dumb move or wasn't fast enough would be awful.
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Feb 24, 2015 14:40
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There should be a way to influence the wagon with crests or something. Just like, you put out a notice for what you want and then next week two of that class are on the wagon.
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Feb 24, 2015 14:47
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Unrelated question, the preferred position section on the characters, some characters have green circles around the position spots, and some don't. What do the green circles mean?
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Feb 24, 2015 14:49
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The Little Kielbasa posted:Darkest Dungeon is a straight-up ProgressQuest grinder. No way will they add a fail state to the basic game. Maybe as an ironman mode type thing. They already prevent save scumming, what else could an Ironman mode do
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Feb 24, 2015 14:54
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Macaluso posted:Unrelated question, the preferred position section on the characters, some characters have green circles around the position spots, and some don't. What do the green circles mean? I think that's based on how many of their equipped actions can function from those positions.
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Feb 24, 2015 15:13
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Macaluso posted:I would hate this to be honest. Losing these dudes I'm invested in is a good enough punishment. Losing the entire game and having to start over from scratch because I made a dumb move or wasn't fast enough would be awful. That's not the kind of loss condition I'm thinking of really. More like, say, every four weeks the monsters all get another hit point. Just some kind of incremental clock so that you have to stop farting around at some point and move the quest lines forward.
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Feb 24, 2015 15:29
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I succumbed to curiosity and looked at the Cove spoilers and now I'm excited for that dungeon. Lovecraftian aquatic horrors are my jam. I hope a lot of stuff in there is Eldritch to give the Occultist somewhere to really shine. I had my first death in my current run the other day. After 15 weeks without a single fatality, Turgleburden the Unpronounceable Jester heroically perished fighting... a pair of Bone Rabbles. The first one scored an unlucky critical hit, and the second walloped him one last time. RIP Turgleburden, your adventuring buddy Feu the Jester will carry on in your name.  If (when) one of my really awesome characters dies like that, I'm gonna be pretty gutted. Pancevolt the power-metal Crusader, THE SKRONGT the rabid Hellion werewolf, and Dismas the murderous turbosniper are all way too rad to get killed by chaff enemies but I just know it's going to happen to at least one of them.
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Feb 24, 2015 15:35
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's not the kind of loss condition I'm thinking of really. More like, say, every four weeks the monsters all get another hit point. Just some kind of incremental clock so that you have to stop farting around at some point and move the quest lines forward. Farting around is fun though! I haven't sent my guys on a level 3 mission yet, I'm leveling up more recruits and in the process of doing that, I'm learning more about the game and good class/skill combinations. If there was a timer, I would probably still be leaning on my initial Cru-Hwy-PD-Ves team, and I wouldn't have had nearly as much time playing with the other classes. The Little Kielbasa posted:Other than that, the I'd love to see the usual convenience factors everybody wants: unequip all trinkets button, torch button, and chat bubbles not pausing the game. I personally want to see some sort of change to the town UI. Having to scroll the roster up/down means its a pain to see who is doing what this week. Also a pain having to go to the Embark window, checking the available missions, remembering 'okay I want these 4 heroes', then going back to town to send everyone else to stress/quirk relief while remembering not to send the 4 I'm taking this week, etc. Another quibble is how I get charged for putting someone into stress/quirk relief then changing my mind before leaving the screen or embarking for the week. I'm no game UI guru, but I think it might be useful to add in some sort of a 'this is what everyone on the team is doing this week' screen with a confirmation before embarking/locking everyone into tasks for the week. goatsestretchgoals fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Feb 24, 2015 |
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Feb 24, 2015 15:39
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Time_pants posted:Seriously. I don't understand why people want a failure state so badly. Because The Little Kielbasa posted:Darkest Dungeon is a straight-up ProgressQuest grinder. The game has great atmosphere and some fun mechanical bits but it all becomes very easy and rote very fast. I'm still not convinced failure state is the best way to fix the problem, but it desperately needs something to keep things dynamic past the first few weeks.
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Feb 24, 2015 15:39
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I think it would be good if they added a failure state that was a 'hard' mode or something, so poopsockers/unemployed/Koreans would have their xcom like, and normal people can say gently caress that insane bullshit. Character death is the failure state, like rogue legacy. The rogue like or light, whatever, genre is awesome because it scratches a difficulty itch similar to dark souls while not being a real kick in the teeth like old games were *cough rogue cough*. The genre is evolving with games like darkest, and I feel it's a great direction. Purists might want a sub genre for the less hard core games like darkest, but rogue likes really don't need to resemble metal sub genres. Edit: What it really needs is a really hard place where characters have a decent chance of dying, we could call it something like the darkest dungeon maybe... Brutor Fartknocker fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Feb 24, 2015 |
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Feb 24, 2015 15:48
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Can you lose at Rogue Legacy? There's another game that has disposable heroes and a town-leveling mechanic. I haven't played enough though to know if there's a way to lose. Edit: question answered while I wrote it!
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Feb 24, 2015 15:51
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Brutor Fartknocker posted:so poopsockers/unemployed/Koreans would have their xcom like once you beat the boss, xcom aliens land creating a new dungeon area thin men are blight immune, have 50 dodge and 200 base aim, and a crit percentage that can only be described as 'loving bullshit' E: Seriously though, some sort of extended game might be nice, maybe with combinations of enemies you didn't see in the normal game, or some sort of firewood shortage making you go through longer dungeons with fewer camps? goatsestretchgoals fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Feb 24, 2015 |
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Feb 24, 2015 15:51
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Normal people, eh? Anyway, I don't think a failure state would solve much, as it would cause pretty much the same problems that arise when you lose a bunch of valuable heroes now. Namely that you just have to grind a bunch to get your levels back up again. I honestly don't know what they could do to increase the replayability of the game, because I feel like it can get old fast. I really want to love the game, but behind the great art and narration the game mechanics are very shallow.
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Feb 24, 2015 15:53
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Irony.or.Death posted:The game has great atmosphere and some fun mechanical bits but it all becomes very easy and rote very fast. I'm still not convinced failure state is the best way to fix the problem, but it desperately needs something to keep things dynamic past the first few weeks. Honestly? I don't think a failure state is the best option, but you could throw in a few different endings depending on what kind of state the town is in when the Darkest Dungeon is cleared (particularly if town sieges are implemented), how long you took, how many heroes died on the way to victory, etc. If you take ages, let a bunch of townsfolk get murdered, and have a massive graveyard, your dude is driven insane by the secrets in the Darkest Dungeon and your final inheritance of the Estate marks the return and rise of an infamous noble house known for madness, bloody obsession, and grim deeds. If you completely kill it and beat the game comparatively fast, with minimal fatalities and a fairly healthy town, making sure to wipe out all the bosses on the way, you are able to crush the accursed evil lurking beneath the Estate at last; your noble line returns to the height of its glory and you are famed as a paragon of righteous leadership, a stern bulwark against corruption and wickedness, ruling fairly over a thriving estate where veteran heroes gather to plan bold expeditions into the unknown. Throw a Pyrrhic victory in there somewhere, maybe a heroic defeat ending as well, and you've got a goal to work towards and a reason for people to play again armed with everything they've learned ("this time, I'm gonna redeem the family! I know I can do it this time!"). You could have some pretty cool, conditional "challenge" endings, too. Beat the game with a party including both Reynaud and Dismas, both alive, to see a neat little post-endgame vignette of them sitting in the tavern and affectionately bickering, dysfunctional half-mad adventure bros, laughing merrily in the night because They Have Seen True Evil and what the gently caress else can the world throw at them?? Beat the game without clearing any of the non-mandatory bosses and without getting the Went Totally Insane ending to get a secret ending in which the Estate becomes the heart of a new holy war, with legions of Crusaders and Vestals rallying to crush the mounting hordes of necromantic horrors, twisted beast-folk, and diabolic cultists that have spread through the world after the cleansing of the Darkest Dungeon. Stuff like that! edit: One really interesting possibility for improving replayability/minimizing repeated grind would be a kind of abstracted New Game+ system, where beating the game saves all of your surviving heroes, and you can start over in the same slot to play in a world that they inhabit. Each level 0 hero created by the wagon would have a very small chance to be replaced by a survivor from the previous game(s), assuming you a) had at least one hero of the same level or higher in your roster already and b) didn't already recruit that specific survivor. If you manage to keep Reynaud and/or Dismas alive right to the end of the god drat game, New Game+ should just give them to you as-is and have the wagon spawn an extra two level 0 guys so you can do level 1 dungeons while the Badass Veterans hang out in the pub and drink. Play the tutorial with level 5 dudes! Start re-recruiting your other badass survivors right away! Try to speedrun the game! Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Feb 24, 2015 |
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Feb 24, 2015 15:55
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I only say just do an optional failure state because some people keep saying they want it. I would never play the game with a failure state, it's just too much invested to lose it all ever, for any reason. I love ftl, and I played it quite a bit. Darkest takes so much longer than ftl though, and that's why I feel they both work the way they are. That sounds pretty cool angry diplomat, especially if there was either a new game plus or post game to kick around in. Choose four heroes(or more) who keep their trinkets and quirks, but get set back down to level one for a fresh start.
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Feb 24, 2015 16:04
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Holy poo poo, graverobbers and highwaymen get very silly at high levels. I have a highwayman right now with the 20% ranged accuracy trinket, 10% damage trinket, 10% ranged damage perk, 5% ranged accuracy perk, and rabies. With clean guns up he is a god drat monster. My graverobber on the other hand, with the right combo of buffs, can get like 40-50% passive dodge.
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Feb 24, 2015 16:11
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Dedicated gunslinger Highwaymen are nuts once you give them the right trinkets and get them infected with Rabies. In my game, I like to put Dismas in front once he has Clean Guns active, and he routinely obliterates fairly tough monsters with a first-turn Point-Blank Shot. If he crits he'll easily brutalize even size 2 miniboss monsters to the point that the other party members can usually mop them up before the end of the turn. Grave Robbers are really good all around, but for some reason they always seem to die for me. I'm probably not using them right.
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Feb 24, 2015 16:24
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