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NecroMonster posted:I hope Nyssa does end up training Laurel because watching her flail around like an idiot and get he face smashed in over and over isn't enjoyable. After establishing Nyssa can take out Merlyn like nothing it would make Laurel's training pretty believable.
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Feb 26, 2015 05:38
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The show has definitely dropped the ball this season. I just don't really care about Ollie anymore? Or Thea, Roy, or Diggle? I'm way more interested in Ray's storyline that has thus far been completely disjoint from the rest of the show. I think they messed up a little by putting Ray in the show, since he very clearly belongs in a different show. He's much funnier and more likeable than Ollie, and has much better chemistry with Felicity. I hope Ray gets his own show. He's great, but he really doesn't fit the "grimdark" of Arrow. He's so likeable in a way that just highlights how much of a douche Ollie is all the time.
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Feb 26, 2015 05:38
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Shakugan posted:The show has definitely dropped the ball this season. I just don't really care about Ollie anymore? Or Thea, Roy, or Diggle? I'm way more interested in Ray's storyline that has thus far been completely disjoint from the rest of the show. I think they messed up a little by putting Ray in the show, since he very clearly belongs in a different show. He's much funnier and more likeable than Ollie, and has much better chemistry with Felicity. I hope Ray gets his own show. He's great, but he really doesn't fit the "grimdark" of Arrow. He's so likeable in a way that just highlights how much of a douche Ollie is all the time. That's why he's here. Ray Palmer trying to become a hero while being everything Ollie is not (that is, a good person) is no coincidence. This season they've been drawing a lot of attention to how much of a dick Ollie is, and Ray existing as this alternate, "better" force is a big part of that. Hell, his relationship with Felicity is probably part of that.
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Feb 26, 2015 05:51
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I can see why people would be upset about Ollie being a dumb rear end but Goddam I could give a gently caress cuz poo poo is off the chain.
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Feb 26, 2015 05:54
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I hate everything about the Oliver/Thea/Malcolm dynamic but apart from that good episode. At one point it seemed like they had to have everybody on Team Arrow say something like "you're doing this so Thea doesn't feel guilty about it later on, I get that" as of saying it enough would make the audience buy it more. Felicity + Ray forever
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Feb 26, 2015 05:56
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Raylicity is the one true ship, all dissenters will be rounded up at dawn and shot.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:03
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King of Solomon posted:That's why he's here. Ray Palmer trying to become a hero while being everything Ollie is not (that is, a good person) is no coincidence. This season they've been drawing a lot of attention to how much of a dick Ollie is, and Ray existing as this alternate, "better" force is a big part of that. Hell, his relationship with Felicity is probably part of that. I'd like to believe that, but I don't. It's too nuanced for a CW show about superheroes; I just don't buy the producers actively wanting us to to think Ollie is an unlikable dick. If Ray was supposed to be juxtaposed with Ollie in the manner you're suggesting, they really should have done a bit more to integrate Ray into the show. The plotlines and tone of his scenes may as well be from an entirely separate show. I'm sure they'll work him into the primary plotline more now that his Atom suit is operational, so hopefully things will change a little.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:08
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Well there is the whole "Ray has no goddamn experience at combat and is just relying on his tech" thing, which is the plotline for a future episode, so maybe he'll turn to the Arrow crew for help?
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Feb 26, 2015 06:10
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NecroMonster posted:I hope Nyssa does end up training Laurel because watching her flail around like an idiot and get he face smashed in over and over isn't enjoyable. That's literally all Laurel is good for on this show.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:13
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NecroMonster posted:I hope Nyssa does end up training Laurel because watching her flail around like an idiot and get he face smashed in over and over isn't enjoyable. Can she take Thea too? I want Thea to be a badass as well but I somehow doubt Ollie will continue training her.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:14
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Scyantific posted:Well there is the whole "Ray has no goddamn experience at combat and is just relying on his tech" thing, which is the plotline for a future episode, so maybe he'll turn to the Arrow crew for help? Do you think he'll just walk into Arrow cave like everybody else? Maybe with a throwaway line about how he can find anything since he has so much money but probably not even that much.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:15
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Shakugan posted:I'd like to believe that, but I don't. It's too nuanced for a CW show about superheroes; I just don't buy the producers actively wanting us to to think Ollie is an unlikable dick. If Ray was supposed to be juxtaposed with Ollie in the manner you're suggesting, they really should have done a bit more to integrate Ray into the show. The plotlines and tone of his scenes may as well be from an entirely separate show. I'm sure they'll work him into the primary plotline more now that his Atom suit is operational, so hopefully things will change a little. They've had other characters call Ollie out on his poo poo constantly this season. He's had arguments about the way he operates and the way he thinks with pretty much every character since he's come back, frequently multiple times. At the same time, you have the Thea situation basically forcing him to be honest with her and being the catalyst for those same arguments. I do agree that the Atom stuff could be better integrated into the show (which I expect will start to happen now that the suit's done), but Ray showing up and being the way he is, now? I could be wrong, but the way I see it, there's no way that isn't deliberate.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:19
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I like that they at least didn't try to pretend that they shouldn't try to wound the League of Assassins people. Diggle going around and blasting people with a gun is pretty boss. Oliver's a huge dick head but he is actually kind of like the character I mean he's a huge left wing liberal sanctimonious prick that's usually right.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:19
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I can't help but feel that I'd much rather they went with Ted Kord instead of Ray for the power suited hero. Especially since it doesn't seem like they're going with the Atom's powers and it does seem like the comic book equal to what we're seeing is Blue Beetle.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:20
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Timett posted:Do you think he'll just walk into Arrow cave like everybody else? Probably. He did use his tech to figure out where Felicity was earlier in the season. Personally, I'm hoping Ray gets his rear end handed to him his first time out so they can drive home the point that having a super suit ain't gonna do poo poo if you're not trained.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:26
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Jack Skeleton posted:I can't help but feel that I'd much rather they went with Ted Kord instead of Ray for the power suited hero. Especially since it doesn't seem like they're going with the Atom's powers and it does seem like the comic book equal to what we're seeing is Blue Beetle. It is Ted Kord, they just filed off the serial numbers. Just like Oliver is Batman. gently caress Ra's might as well have called him Detective
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Feb 26, 2015 06:30
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Did anyone else find it really refreshing to see Malcolm scared out of his wits because he knew he was completely screwed? It was a nice contrast to his usual smugness.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:35
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I hope he meets little Damien Wayne, even if it's just a cameo easter egg.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:37
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Oliver's Central City Baby Mama revealed to be Talia. And holy poo poo, Ephram Brown directed this episode?  This was a "good episode," but it still highlighted a lot of the problems this season has had, wherein literally all of the plots are just driven by characters keeping random arbitrary secrets from each other for one reason or another and WHAT WILL HAPPEN when those secrets arE REVEALED??? It gets tedious.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:47
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Rocksicles posted:I hope he meets little Damien Wayne, even if it's just a cameo easter egg. Would he even be born at this point?
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Feb 26, 2015 06:56
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nerd stuff. Damien Wayne is a boss.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:58
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Laurel is going off for some training with Nyssa by season end.
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Feb 26, 2015 07:07
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"training"
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Feb 26, 2015 07:09
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I really liked the part where she just pulled out a gun. She should really keep doing that. (Although I'm pretty sure Arrow exists in a cartoon physics universe where guns are less effective than bows and swords)
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Feb 26, 2015 07:19
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Rocksicles posted:Laurel is going off for some training with Nyssa by season end. Hopefully. Right now she's a punching bag. A very annoying punching bag. Didn't see the end line coming at all. This has rekindled my interest, which had honestly been waning during this season. It may just be because Flash is absolutely killing it though, and this is probably the worst season of Arrow yet. Darke GBF fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Feb 26, 2015 |
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Feb 26, 2015 10:39
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Xtanstic posted:Can she take Thea too? I want Thea to be a badass as well but I somehow doubt Ollie will continue training her. Just kill off Oliver and make the show about the women. They don't even have to change the name.
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Feb 26, 2015 10:49
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Jack Skeleton posted:I can't help but feel that I'd much rather they went with Ted Kord instead of Ray for the power suited hero. Especially since it doesn't seem like they're going with the Atom's powers and it does seem like the comic book equal to what we're seeing is Blue Beetle. Well that was the plan all along, until WB stepped in and told them they can't use him.
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Feb 26, 2015 13:27
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I'm really not interested in the whole ATOM/felicity storyline at all. It's cool how different people like different parts of the show though
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Feb 26, 2015 14:14
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Frankly, the ATOM story has been spinning its wheels for half a year now. The whole narrative is comprised of Ray and Felicity having the exact same conversation that they always have week after week after week without ever reaching any kind of climax. (Well, other than the climax this week  )Ray: I WANT TO DO THE THING Felicity: BUT HAVE YOU CONSIDERED NOT DOING THE THING Rinse plus repeat. The only thing that saves it from being a total borefest is how likable Brandon Routh and Emily Rickards have managed to make their characters.
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Feb 26, 2015 14:23
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To me the problem with the Atom storyline is that aside from Felicity's involvement, it is utterly detached from the rest of the show. You could take the whole thing out and lose nothing to the rest of the storyline. It's kind of jarring when they are building drama with the League confrontation and holy poo poo Nyssa and oh jeez Merlyn is captured and then -- Ray flies around. Presumably they'll weave it in soon. I would love it if they pushed this 'Oliver is headed in the wrong direction' arc they seem to be on this season by having him accept R'as' offer and think that he can make the League into a force for good or something. The 'no I'll never join you' is so obviously coming it would be great if it didn't.
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Feb 26, 2015 14:35
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I got the impression that Nyssa might be the end of season big bad. She trumped Merlyn who was training Ollie, so she should have the chops for it. She was always planning on becoming The Head of the Demon, but Merlyn kept taunting her that it would never happen because of her relationship with Sara, and now Ollie is being offered her dream job. Plus, Thea just told her that she was the one to kill her beloved. I think that she's going to capture Thea, take her back to Nanda Parbat, find out what happened and then go nuts and threaten to kill Thea herself and then run off into the night to some unknown place where she will basically go after Ollie. edit: Spoilers, obviously but apparently Nyssa does not, in fact, take it very well. mcswizzle fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Feb 26, 2015 |
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Feb 26, 2015 14:57
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King of Solomon posted:They've had other characters call Ollie out on his poo poo constantly this season. He's had arguments about the way he operates and the way he thinks with pretty much every character since he's come back, frequently multiple times. At the same time, you have the Thea situation basically forcing him to be honest with her and being the catalyst for those same arguments. The whole thing with Oliver is starting to get tiresome. It's starting to feel like every episode is about showing him how lying and being a dick is bad, and he acknowledges it, but by the next episode he's back to his old ways. He's just getting to where he repeats the same actions, rarely having any actual character growth. On the flip side, at least Felicity does seem to learn from the past, finally deciding that Oliver is just an asshat and pairing up with Palmer instead, who actually treats her like a person.  Hollismason posted:Diggle going around and blasting people with a gun is pretty boss. I'd like to see one episode where the team is fretting about how to deal with the villain-of-the-week, and Diggle just pulls out his gun and shoots the badguy. 
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Feb 26, 2015 15:12
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I really didn't see anyone else mention that Ras basically spilled the beans that Merlyn is approaching 200 years old himself.
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Feb 26, 2015 15:19
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This League-storyline feels tortured and forced. This episode alone the whole thing could've been unwinded by just letting Merlyn go and get killed. It's basically a non-problem forced to be a drama. Everyone apart from Ollie would be perfectly fine with getting rid of Merlyn. If you don't want to kill off Merlyn, the writers should come up with a solution worthy of the Magician. Actually, wasn't there already bad blood between Merlyn and R'as before Sara died? If Merlyn hadn't done that, they could've written a story with him training Thea so he'd have more capable people in his fight against R'as, with Thea actually giving a drat about him. Then Ollie gets drawn into it because he doesn't want to see Thea get involved like that. The whole killing Sara thing was totally unnecessary, there was already enough poo poo in Merlyn's past (the earthquake, the boat) to make for a troubled alliance. Instead, all of this just makes everyone look incompetent and stupid. That said, I'm still enjoying it.
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Feb 26, 2015 15:26
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Spergatory posted:I'm glad they actually came up with a reason for Oliver acting like an idiot that involves him being... less stupid. Like, he's still stupid as all gently caress, but it's the kind of stupid I can understand and get behind. He just wanted to beat the Final Boss. He was so close, but then he died and got saddled with heavy EXP and stat penalties. Now he's consulted the Player's Guide (Merlyn) and learned Ra's patterns so he wants to try again. Only somehow he accidentally activated cheat mode and now he gets to BE the Final Boss. I like this explanation for Oliver being stupid the best. Fleve posted:This League-storyline feels tortured and forced. This episode alone the whole thing could've been unwinded by just letting Merlyn go and get killed. It's basically a non-problem forced to be a drama. Everyone apart from Ollie would be perfectly fine with getting rid of Merlyn. Oliver has been extra stupid this season regarding that. Clearly Merlyn didn't have a chance to show Ras his iphone with the Sara murder video. But I guess some day Thea might feel super bad about it so better rescue him  Hollismason posted:I like that they at least didn't try to pretend that they shouldn't try to wound the League of Assassins people. Diggle going around and blasting people with a gun is pretty boss. Whoa, guns sure are effective against bows and arrows Oliver. You sure you don't want one? So what was the reason that Nyssa isn't the heir? Because she got into a relationship with someone that her father didn't approve of? because lmao
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Feb 26, 2015 15:27
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bull3964 posted:I really didn't see anyone else mention that Ras basically spilled the beans that Merlyn is approaching 200 years old himself. Uhm, no? He was talking about meeting a magician in the nineteenth century, and coming across the same guy forty years later when he was old and frail. It was to illustrate how even a magician (which is Merlyns league name) can't cheat death.
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Feb 26, 2015 15:29
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bull3964 posted:I really didn't see anyone else mention that Ras basically spilled the beans that Merlyn is approaching 200 years old himself. That's the impression that I got, but it doesn't jive with his departure after his wife's death to Nanda Parbat and joining the LoA. I mean, if he'd met and impressed Ra's 200 years ago, don't you think he'd have had some rudimentary training? Getting trounced by the guy who killed his wife then killing him with a gun doesn't exactly seem like something even an ancillary league member would do. Look at Ollie, he's about as close to being in the league as you can be (before last nights episode) between training and general disdain for life in the first season and he only uses a gun when it's a last resort.
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Feb 26, 2015 15:32
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bull3964 posted:I really didn't see anyone else mention that Ras basically spilled the beans that Merlyn is approaching 200 years old himself. The character of Merlyn doesn't have unnaturally long life.
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Feb 26, 2015 15:54
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I wasn't too happy about Oliver's obsession with rescuing Malcolm, but his confession about just wanting to beat the guy who (almost) killed him sold it for me. I've also been a huge Ra's fan since David Warner on TAS so this season's portrayal and the twist at the end was just awesome for me.
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Feb 26, 2015 16:21
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Timett posted:Do you think he'll just walk into Arrow cave like everybody else? Palmer could find the Arrow Cave in a heartbeat - he's shown he's perfectly willing and able to track Felicity's phone. Even if that were taken away, he knows she spends a lot of time around Thea's club and isn't really a clubbing sort of girl (and she has no business being in The Glades at all). If/when Felicity tells him she works with the Arrow (or he finds out on his own), he'll be able to put two and two together even without X-Ray vision mode in his helmet or whatever. imperialparadox posted:The whole thing with Oliver is starting to get tiresome. It's starting to feel like every episode is about showing him how lying and being a dick is bad, and he acknowledges it, but by the next episode he's back to his old ways. He's just getting to where he repeats the same actions, rarely having any actual character growth. Oliver has grown quite a bit relative to where he was 2.5 seasons ago. Like with his changing voice, it's kinda subtle and you don't always see it from one episode to the next, but arc-to-arc I think it shows. Honestly, if this is a 5 season show, I think they're pretty much on track with the character arcs, and a lot of the transitions we thought would be bumpy were handled fairly well. bull3964 posted:I really didn't see anyone else mention that Ras basically spilled the beans that Merlyn is approaching 200 years old himself. Merlyn didn't meet Ras until he had Tommy as a son and his wife died. Unless there's some memory-wiping fuckery afoot, he had only heard of Nanda Parbat after his wife's death. I totally buy the premise that he's gotten some anti-aging help in the 15-20 years he was with Ras though (seriously, he looks early-40s (Barrowman is 47) and had a son who would be 28-30 if he lived).
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Feb 26, 2015 16:38
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