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quote:If his only exposure to euros is Agricola then I can kind of understand where he's coming from. Oh, I understand where he's coming from: very limited exposure to board games and not much time spent thinking. What's sad is his willingness, in spite of that limited knowledge, to jump publicly to a conclusion like "Eurogames Are Inherently Single-Player Games" - and based on the following evidence: 1. He likes playing Agricola solo That's the end of his case, as far as I can see. He does bring up some convincing counterpoints, which he then dismisses in hopelessly circular fashion. Like, it doesn't matter that other people (experts!) pay attention to their opponents in Agricola and demonstrably do better because of that. Why? Because that's not what these games are inherently about - obviously. I mean, when he plays, any interaction is "unwitting" (not hard to believe) and "annoying". The people he plays with sometimes try to be social. These games are too dense for that. Not for the people he plays with, obviously, but for him. And because it's true for him, that means it's an inherent property of not just the game, but the whole genre. (You might not think of Eurogames as a genre, but that's because you don't know the true inherent core of Eurogames): quote:This is because the core, central idea of Euros is “building a machine”. You take elements from the middle, buy them with resources, and add them to your machine which makes it bigger and more productive. I mean, maybe there's games people call Eurogames that don't follow this pattern, but that doesn't matter - because inherently, obviously those aren't Euro games (which is to say: single player games where you buy things from the center with resources). Clearly this is all the case, because otherwise why would he like playing Agricola solo? My dad could write a similarly insightful piece on "rap music" or "modern art". jmzero fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Feb 26, 2015 |
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Feb 26, 2015 03:36
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I'd love to see a computer/mobile implementation of COIN with automated AI.
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Feb 26, 2015 04:28
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EBag posted:I just picked up Dominant Species, supposed the be the 4th printing, but looking at the box it shows the old brown board on the back rather than the Ice board. I really wanted to get the updated art, can anyone who has the 3rd edition confirm the box just uses the old art? Yep. It's the old art on the box.
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Feb 26, 2015 04:30
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Great thank you.
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Feb 26, 2015 04:48
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If you are not shooting the poo poo or having fun with friends while playing the game, you are doing it wrong. Seriously it's at least half of what makes board gaming fun. I play a ton of Agricola on my phone, but it's just not the same as having real people with you or the wood and cardboard at your finger tips. You just can't get that while playing computer games. I don't know if that makes me weird or what, but that's why I love this hobby.
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Feb 26, 2015 05:12
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Bubble-T posted:It could always be worse, we could have only video game designers for our critics. Building a machine when you're fighting other people over the same pool of parts is distinctly different from just chilling and putting it together on your own. This guy clearly very much enjoys the Minecrafty sandbox element of putting something together. He reminds me of the Galaxy Trucker hater stories that pop up in the thread, where people enjoy the building much, much more than the trucking. I can understand it even if I disagree. I personally enjoy the elements of people messing my poo poo up because it forces me to shift my plan and anticipate others' actions. I don't end up with an incomplete engine. I just end up with a different one from the one I pictured at the start. The social factor is also very much there for me. Maybe it could be considered a flaw, but I do take it kind of personally when someone takes my loving sheep that rear end in a top hat. Speaking of player interaction and Uwe Rosenberg, has anyone tried Glass Road? It's kind of far down my list of wants but it definitely intrigues me. The sort of bluffing card mechanic combined with a traditional economic engine builder looks pretty fun. Gimnbo fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Feb 26, 2015 |
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Feb 26, 2015 06:33
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Gimnbo posted:Building a machine when you're fighting other people over the same pool of parts is distinctly different from just chilling and putting it together on your own. This guy clearly very much enjoys the Minecrafty sandbox element of putting something together. He reminds me of the Galaxy Trucker hater stories that pop up in the thread, where people enjoy the building much, much more than the trucking. I can understand it even if I disagree. Yeah. It's fine to have that taste but he's excluding the multiplayer parts of these games, defining the rest of it as "what the game is about", and then stating that they would work better single player. Well, no poo poo. If you define Agricola as a game exclusively about building stuff then naturally the rest of the game is going to feel unnecessary. jmzero posted:Oh, I understand where he's coming from: very limited exposure to board games and not much time spent thinking. He's played quite a few games apparently: https://boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/keithburgun?comment=1&subtype=boardgame&ff=1 His comments and posts don't add up to anything consistent, I think deep down he just wants a game that's not too hard, doesn't have other people messing him up and gives him a shiny star when he completes the challenge.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:52
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Keith Burgun on Caylus posted:Anyway, should be single player. Oh, wow.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:57
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Anyone got a link to the goon BGG guild?
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Feb 26, 2015 07:08
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S.J. posted:Anyone got a link to the goon BGG guild? https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/2133
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Feb 26, 2015 07:35
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Some Numbers posted:I like the blog a lot, but I have one minor correction. BSG is best with exactly 5 unless you own Daybreak, at which point, 6 players becomes the best number. Unfortunately I haven't played Daybreak! If I had, I might have included a paragraph about it, but I'm really aiming to get people looking at boardgames they hadn't considered before, and talking about expansions at that point seems premature.
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Feb 26, 2015 08:33
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Some of the players that I've played Agricola with in the past will eat you alive if you just try to focus on your own engine and don't take into account what other people are doing. Saying that Caylus should be a single player game is criminal, however. I can't even begin to understand how boring a single player Caylus would be. Guy is nutty and knows gently caress all about boardgames.
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Feb 26, 2015 08:57
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Gimnbo posted:Speaking of player interaction and Uwe Rosenberg, has anyone tried Glass Road? It's kind of far down my list of wants but it definitely intrigues me. The sort of bluffing card mechanic combined with a traditional economic engine builder looks pretty fun. I've played it, and I won't play it again. It's just a basic point salad game with one neat mechanic, and the winner is the person whose turn 1 strategy best matches the completely random tile draws in later turns.
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Feb 26, 2015 09:14
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Jedit posted:I've played it, and I won't play it again. It's just a basic point salad game with one neat mechanic, and the winner is the person whose turn 1 strategy best matches the completely random tile draws in later turns. Played it twice in one convention, liked it quite a bit, won't ever play it again! Yeah it's very forgettable, I'd much rather just play a 4p game of Agricola since I rarely get to play more than 2.
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Feb 26, 2015 09:16
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Puerto Rico is another one which doesn't make any sense to play solo, it's super interactive.
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Feb 26, 2015 11:14
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Also I find it funny that he he as to expend so much brainpower on trying to figure out what to do in a game that he is completely unable to socialize because of it. I dread to think how boring it would be to play 18XX with that guy, and if he actually would get annoyed at the boisterous atmosphere filled with friendly insults and jokes that routinely happens when I play with my 18XX group.
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Feb 26, 2015 11:23
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Durendal posted:If you are not shooting the poo poo or having fun with friends while playing the game, you are doing it wrong. Seriously it's at least half of what makes board gaming fun. I play a ton of Agricola on my phone, but it's just not the same as having real people with you or the wood and cardboard at your finger tips. You just can't get that while playing computer games. This is precisely why I prefer boardgaming to computer gaming. I played a lot of MMOs in highschool and when I got all of my socializing from the internet it made me (and others) into complete weirdo shut-ins. Board gamers may be nerdy and often weirdos themselves but at least they manage to get out of the house once in a while. The second biggest draw of the hobby is of course emergency preparedness. The modern world is scary; a North Korean EMP bomb could cripple the entire continent of America with no notice. Or maybe a solar flair; or simple civil disturbances take out the power! Oh no! When there are no iPads and no Xboxs, no kindles or gameboys then the man with with Agricola set will be king 
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Feb 26, 2015 12:47
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What's a good $15-$20 game to grab to help pad out my CSI order of Dungeon Petz and Argent: The Consortium? Especially something that's not worker placement because I've been buying a lot of those recently.
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Feb 26, 2015 12:53
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Mega64 posted:What's a good $15-$20 game to grab to help pad out my CSI order of Dungeon Petz and Argent: The Consortium? Especially something that's not worker placement because I've been buying a lot of those recently. CoB?
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Feb 26, 2015 13:02
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Rutibex posted:The second biggest draw of the hobby is of course emergency preparedness. The modern world is scary; a North Korean EMP bomb could cripple the entire continent of America with no notice. Or maybe a solar flair; or simple civil disturbances take out the power! Oh no! When there are no iPads and no Xboxs, no kindles or gameboys then the man with with Agricola set will be king This is the best reason for playing board games. Anything else is just pretence. Also, regarding Dominion/Dominion clone chat: It think a lot of the reason there is a clone market is that people like me feel that deckbuilding is a great mechanic, but not a great game. Dominion has pretty much no visible gamestate, except how much has been bought from each stack, which only tells you how far into the game you are, not who's doing what. I need something out there that tells me how everyone is doing in some way. Star Realms fulfils this desire pretty much by influence/HP and bases: I have more HP than the opponent, this means I am winning. I am happy Or I have no HP, which means by more bases/HP giving stuff. In Dominion, I can go "yeah, there's not a lot of provinces left, game's about to end", but it doesn't really tell me anything about who's doing well, I have to remember every card everyone has bought basically, and that is unattractive to me. Building a game on top of the deckbuilding mechanic pretty much cheapens the mechanic and the balance and so on, which is why every drat Dominion clone is worse mechanically, while simultaneously being more enjoyable to people like me. Incidentally, the gamestate is also why euros are not best single player. You should react to whatever's out there, and that requires other players to change in most designs. Mage Knight does changing gamestate without using players, but that's a rare feat really.
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Feb 26, 2015 13:15
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Rutibex posted:The second biggest draw of the hobby is of course emergency preparedness. The modern world is scary; a North Korean EMP bomb could cripple the entire continent of America with no notice. Or maybe a solar flair; or simple civil disturbances take out the power! Oh no! When there are no iPads and no Xboxs, no kindles or gameboys then the man with with Agricola set will be king And a single game of Talisman can ride out nuclear winter.
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Feb 26, 2015 13:19
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Mega64 posted:What's a good $15-$20 game to grab to help pad out my CSI order of Dungeon Petz and Argent: The Consortium? Especially something that's not worker placement because I've been buying a lot of those recently. Canceling your order would be forgivable. Petz is the Chvatil game that even many Chvatil fans dislike, while Argent is Anime Hogwarts: the Worker Placement Game and everything in it was done before in Age of Empires III or Archon: Glory and Machination.
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Feb 26, 2015 13:31
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In some ways, a nuclear apocalypse would be Agricola: The LARP
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Feb 26, 2015 13:33
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Jedit, have you played either of those games and would you elaborate on what makes them not worth buying? I am honestly curious what you disliked about Dungeon Petz especially, beyond vague allusions that 'even Vlaada fans don't like it' (you got mixed up with Tash-Kalar btw, that's the Vlaada that a lot of Vlaada fans don't like).
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Feb 26, 2015 13:37
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The selling point of Argent seems to be that it brings multiple tried-and-tested mechanics together to make a difficult game, rather than claiming to invent something new. I'd be interested to see the criticism of that (genuinely interested: I've not played it or read much about it!)
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Feb 26, 2015 13:57
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silvergoose posted:CoB? What is CoB? Only thing I can think of is Castles of Burgundy, and my friend already owns that one. I recall there being good words about Samurai Spirit. Is it worth a purchase? e: I see the Dungeon Petz expansion is also in stock. Is it also rare enough to go ahead and grab now? Mega64 fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Feb 26, 2015 |
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Feb 26, 2015 14:06
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Rutibex posted:The second biggest draw of the hobby is of course emergency preparedness. The modern world is scary; a North Korean EMP bomb could cripple the entire continent of America with no notice. Or maybe a solar flair; or simple civil disturbances take out the power! Oh no! When there are no iPads and no Xboxs, no kindles or gameboys then the man with with Agricola set will be king space alert nooooo
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Feb 26, 2015 14:40
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Mega64 posted:I recall there being good words about Samurai Spirit. Is it worth a purchase? It is pretty shallow, but I find it fun. I like the Pandemic dice game better though for a short rules co-op that plays in 30ish mins.
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Feb 26, 2015 14:41
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Mega64 posted:What's a good $15-$20 game to grab to help pad out my CSI order of Dungeon Petz and Argent: The Consortium? Especially something that's not worker placement because I've been buying a lot of those recently. Maybe some filler? Red7 + No Thanks?
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Feb 26, 2015 15:01
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Next to Space Alert, Dungeon Petz is my second favorite Vlaada.
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Feb 26, 2015 15:15
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I like dungeon crawl-type board games. Are there any good recommendations? Specific things I like; -Games where one player takes the "dungeon master" role and is actively controlling the monsters. -Games where the board is gradually revealed through exploration instead of laid out at the start. -Games with actual game pieces that make the board feel busy and like stuff is actually happening. Cardboard tiles representing monsters and set pieces depress me. I guess what I'm saying is I want to be 10 years old again and I want another HeroQuest.
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Feb 26, 2015 15:16
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Jamesman posted:I like dungeon crawl-type board games. Are there any good recommendations? I've really been enjoying Imperial Assault so far. It's basically Descent 2.5 with a Star Wars theme, and you know there's going to be lots and lots of expansion support for it. - Up to 4 players play the Rebel heroes, and 1 player plays the Imperials. - Instead of revealing the board as it goes, the campaign missions are broken up into ~1 hour bits, and you're meant to play 2 or 3 in one session. So you see part 1 of the mission, part 2, part 3, etc, but not all at once. Also the Imperial's deployment points move as the Rebels progress, and the Imperial player gets to reveal more reinforcements as it goes. Progress carries over from one to the next. - Really nice miniatures. Imagined fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Feb 26, 2015 |
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Feb 26, 2015 15:20
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Jamesman posted:I like dungeon crawl-type board games. Are there any good recommendations? Edit Or Imperial Assault, yeah. 
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Feb 26, 2015 15:41
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Speaking of Imperial Assault, how much do you lose out if you play through the campaign missions with a different play group every week? Is it like Risk Legacy where that totally defeats the purpose of running a campaign? Or like say the Space Alert expansion where it's pretty flexible? My friend who owns the game just intends to bring it to our regularly scheduled game night and play with whoever happens to show up that day. It's probably not what I would do if I owned the game, but is it bad enough that I should warn him he's shooting himself in the foot?
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Feb 26, 2015 15:42
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Jedit posted:Canceling your order would be forgivable. Petz is the Chvatil game that even many Chvatil fans dislike, while Argent is Anime Hogwarts: the Worker Placement Game and everything in it was done before in Age of Empires III or Archon: Glory and Machination. You should just respond to stuff with "I hate vlaada games" so people know what you're doing. Tash Kalar probably has the most conflicting views since it's pretty radically different from the rest of his stuff, and abstract and poo poo. Mega64 posted:What is CoB? Only thing I can think of is Castles of Burgundy, and my friend already owns that one. I had a really hard time finding the Dungeon Petz expansion so if you like the game you may want to just grab it right away StashAugustine posted:space alert nooooo You can play the game soundtrackless via timers and such, and sand won't be ruined by EMP. Bust out your 1/2/3 minute timers! Jamesman posted:I like dungeon crawl-type board games. Are there any good recommendations? Mansions of Madness? Be aware it is peak FFG. That's a really tough category to fill with good games. Sloober fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Feb 26, 2015 |
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Feb 26, 2015 15:43
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Sloober posted:Mansions of Madness? Be aware it is peak FFG. I thought peak FFG was Android?
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Feb 26, 2015 15:47
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What sucks is that there are so many games that ALMOST get there. Like Descent has dungeonmaster, miniatures, etc, but no exploration. Ditto the D&D adventure games. Dungeonquest has exploration, but no monster miniatures or dungeonmaster. Mice & Mystics has no dungeonmaster. Claustrophobia is strictly 1 vs 1. It's really weird because it seems like everyone is trying as hard as they can to make a Heroquest game that's almost, but not quite, entirely unlike Heroquest.Paper Kaiju posted:I thought peak FFG was Android? Got to be Arkham Horror.
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Feb 26, 2015 15:50
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Bubble-T posted:He's played quite a few games apparently: https://boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/keithburgun?comment=1&subtype=boardgame&ff=1 Oh, wow. I'm trying to imagine how sad that gaming group must be after reading a bunch of these. How has he rated so many games and yet he likes so few? quote:7 Wonders (2010) Party game is a pejorative, check. Also, he's played a '5' 20-30 times? Dayum! quote:Agricola (2007) Agricola the party game!  quote:Android: Netrunner (2012) WAY too random and stupid to be played by adult brains. This sounds like the kind of thing a teenager would say. quote:BattleCON: War of Indines (2010) Ok, let's check out this Yomi game.. quote:Yomi (2011)  quote:Bohnanza (1997) quote:Chaos in the Old World (2009) Sounds like he probably got schooled by someone who can "look ahead" and "clearly play"  quote:Eclipse (2011) quote:Gloom (2005) Ahhh, this is all starting to make sense now.. I'd like to redact sharing any opinions with this guy's article and just go back to being the guy who's mildly apathetic towards Agricola
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Feb 26, 2015 15:54
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Imagined posted:I've really been enjoying Imperial Assault so far. It's basically Descent 2.5 with a Star Wars theme, and you know there's going to be lots and lots of expansion support for it. Looking at this, it seems good, but not great. The map is entirely laid out and really small, there's nothing besides enemies to fill out the board, and the setting doesn't really appeal to me. Also those dice seem really complicated, but maybe it's just because I didn't look into the rules but there are just so many and so many symbols. Imagined posted:What sucks is that there are so many games that ALMOST get there. Like Descent has dungeonmaster, miniatures, etc, but no exploration. Ditto the D&D adventure games. Dungeonquest has exploration, but no monster miniatures or dungeonmaster. Mice & Mystics has no dungeonmaster. Claustrophobia is strictly 1 vs 1. It's really weird because it seems like everyone is trying as hard as they can to make a Heroquest game that's almost, but not quite, entirely unlike Heroquest. So what you're saying is I should get Descent, Dungeonquest, Mice & Mystics, and Clustrophobia and combine them all into one big game? Jamesman fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Feb 26, 2015 |
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Feb 26, 2015 15:55
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Lorini, have you (or anyone else) played with the techromancer expansion for Argent yet? How good / essential is it? I think I'm gonna pick up the base game now but I'm considering getting the expansion too.
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