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Gonna be honest, never played a monk, I've just used the multiclass feat that gives their unarmed damage feature on a brawler fighter so I can suplex things harder without having to carry a sword around. So from that perspective they're great!
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Feb 27, 2015 19:46
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Torquemadras posted:What is everyone's opinion of the Monk class? I've got a rare opportunity to actually play a character myself coming up, and the sheer array of mobility options + punching LOTS of people spontaneously appealed to me. I've been looking for builds, and most people seem to be of the opinion that Monks aren't that huge on damage compared to other Strikers, but they're by far the most mobile and great at spreading damage among multiple targets. Monks are awesome, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, incredibly complicated, and don't work anything like you think they will. They don't really come into their own as strikers until you are able to take the powers that let you use an attack as part of your move action, which is paragon tier, but otherwise they are fine. Also, you will never, ever, ever use your monk-unarmed strike if you are using a monk right.
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Feb 27, 2015 19:50
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Torquemadras posted:What is everyone's opinion of the Monk class? I've got a rare opportunity to actually play a character myself coming up, and the sheer array of mobility options + punching LOTS of people spontaneously appealed to me. I've been looking for builds, and most people seem to be of the opinion that Monks aren't that huge on damage compared to other Strikers, but they're by far the most mobile and great at spreading damage among multiple targets. I think they're one of the most fun classes to play. Having the ability to trade your flurry damage for inflicting ongoing fire is also pretty great -- you punch the air so hard that the air pressure heats the target to the point of combustion.
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Feb 27, 2015 19:55
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Monk is decent, has some neat secondary options, very mobile. Not top tier, but certainly solid. I want to play a monk again sometime. Don't be fooled, though, an optimal monk will have weapons in both hands. Ideally, at least three hands.
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Feb 27, 2015 20:30
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Torquemadras posted:What is everyone's opinion of the Monk class? The big thing is the Striker label is misleading, 'cause they play more like controllers. Other than that they're a solid class. Also yea, you won't end up actually using your Unarmed Strike, because all your powers are Implement. iirc it's an artifact of the monk being pulled in a couple different directions during the design process.
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Feb 27, 2015 20:35
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Monks are definitely mislabeled controllers, but in the best way. Like being an epic tier Centered Breath monk with bard MC to take the feat where you can teleport anyone you would otherwise slide, and rearranging every fight to make a convenient 3x3 for everyone else's bursts and blasts. The best way.
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Feb 27, 2015 20:38
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You still use it for OAs though right? Or granted MBAs, although those are probably better off going to someone else.
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Feb 27, 2015 20:39
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Flame112 posted:You still use it for OAs though right? Or granted MBAs, although those are probably better off going to someone else. Nope, you don't use unarmed strike for anything. Generally speaking your MBA is going to suck.
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Feb 27, 2015 20:41
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Madmarker posted:Nope, you don't use unarmed strike for anything. Generally speaking your MBA is going to suck. Actually, not so much - there are now some gloves you can use to make it DEX based once per turn, which means it's actually OK if you're using a Ki Focus, which you normally should be. E: Babau Gauntlets. But, see above comment about using weapons. Every monk should have at least two weapons in hand at all times, because the feats that do stuff to flurry rely on it and are good. Starblade Flurry, Crashing Tempest Style, that sickle one, etc etc. Worth looking up Master Pei Mei on the WotC site - which shows how (IIRC) CB monks can actually be very good controllers. Monks are OK strikers, but not exceptional, and only if your DM isn't an idiot when reading the powers which allow you to use the attack as part of the move action bit. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 20:54
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I had one of my most fun games ever playing a monk(invoker multiclass feat), I just looked him up: Shirai of the Mountains, level 24 Elf, Monk, Devoted Orator, Master of Moments Build: Centered Breath Monk Monastic Tradition: Centered Breath Background: Elf - Urban Elf (+2 to Thievery) Class Abilities: Monk Centered Breath Flurry of Blows: (1/round 2+Wisdom mod damage to all adjacent targets and slide 1, no action effect triggered by hitting with a power) Mental Equilibrium: +3 Fortitude save Devoted Orator Brilliant Rhetoric: Replace Charisma modifier with Intelligence modifier when making diplomacy checks (lol) Fearsome Oration: When spending an action point to take an extra action, can push or pull all enemies within 5 squares Int mod in squares. Thundering Prayer: Add 1/2 Int mod in thunder damage to burst or blast powers, also can add Push 1. Power gains Thunder keyword. Master of Moments: Consummate Traveler: Know and can master travel rituals. +5 to skill checks relating to travel rituals. 1/day can use a travel ritual without using/expending components. Maximized Time: Can expend an action point to gain an extra standard action, move action, and minor action instead of only a standard action. Bountiful Seconds: Gain an extra minor action on each turn. Can spend two minor actions to gain a move action. Also, master and perform any travel ritual, regardless of level. FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 12, Con 12, Dex 27, Int 14, Wis 22, Cha 10. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 10, Con 10, Dex 18, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 8. AC: 39 Fort: 35 Reflex: 38 Will: 38 HP: 139 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 34 TRAINED SKILLS Perception +25, Acrobatics +25, Thievery +27, Stealth +30, Religion +19 UNTRAINED SKILLS Arcana +14, Bluff +12, Diplomacy +12, Dungeoneering +18, Endurance +13, Heal +18, History +14, Insight +18, Intimidate +12, Nature +20, Streetwise +12, Athletics +13 FEATS Level 1: Deadly Draw Level 2: Coordinated Explosion Level 4: Superior Implement Training (Accurate dagger) Level 6: Weapon Focus (Light Blade) Level 8: Nimble Blade Level 10: Acolyte of Divine Secrets Level 11: Starblade Flurry Level 12: Defensive Advantage Level 14: Uncanny Dodge Level 16: Resounding Thunder Level 18: Improved Defenses Level 20: Roll With It Level 21: Centered Master Level 22: Long Step Level 24: Form Mastery POWERS Acolyte of Divine Secrets: Visions of Blood Monk at-will 1: Five Storms Monk at-will 1: Steel Wind Monk encounter 1: Drunken Monkey Monk daily 1: Masterful Spiral Monk utility 2: Agile Recovery Monk encounter 3: Eternal Mountain Monk daily 5: Spinning Leopard Maneuver Monk utility 6: Centered Defense Monk encounter 7: Grasping Tide Monk daily 9: Crane Dance Monk utility 10: Spot Weakness Devoted Orator Encounter 11: Legion Rebuke Devoted Orator Utility 12: Chastisement Monk encounter 13: Furious Bull (replaces Eternal Mountain) Monk daily 15: Mithral Tornado (replaces Spinning Leopard Maneuver) Monk utility 16: Diamond Mind Monk encounter 17: Steps of Grasping Fire (replaces Drunken Monkey) Monk daily 19: Rising Dragon Fire (replaces Masterful Spiral) Devoted Orator 20: Thunderous Oration Monk utility 22: Indomitable Technique Monk encounter 23: Legion of One (replaces Grasping Tide) ITEMS Monk Unarmed Strike, Subtle Accurate dagger +5, Piwafwi +5, Efreetweave Armor of Cleansing +5, Boots of Speed (epic tier), Hero's Gauntlets (paragon tier), Diamond Cincture (paragon tier) (2), Rhythm Blade Resonating dagger +4, Ring of Action Reversal (paragon tier), Essence of the Wisp (epic tier), Bloodhound Bracers (paragon tier) There we go. He's mostly built around being accurate and hopefully not dying too much. When he does draw too much attention he can weather some fairly fierce attacks with his safety utilities, including Indomitable Technique, which is a simple daily of "Trigger: You have zero or less HP: Free Action - Spend a healing surge and regain HP to your bloodied value" which is fairly nice. Then he runs away. And I mean RUNS away. Using the Full Discipline movement technique of Steel Wind, he runs 11 squares and ends a mark on himself. If he trades both his minors for a move action, that's 22 squares and still gets to launch a Close Blast 3 for 2D8+18 and flurry for another 8 or so to everyone adjacent and one guy within 5, all of whom suffer a Slide 2 and grant him combat advantage until the end of his next turn.
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Feb 27, 2015 22:27
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Madmarker posted:Nope, you don't use unarmed strike for anything. Generally speaking your MBA is going to suck. Internalize the Basic Kata fixed that, I thought. Although it does cost you a feat to do so.
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Feb 27, 2015 23:09
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I really like my epic hybrid sorcerer| bard/rogue. Storm soul, I blow things up all day every day and if there are no large clumps of enemies to rain death upon I just hand out actions like candy. The three classes together mean I have absolutely fantastic skill coverage.
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Feb 28, 2015 01:34
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It's awesome having players that are loving PUMPED about D&D in the way only newbies can be.
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Mar 2, 2015 06:20
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I have a question about the reward/treasure system of the game. Say I'm generating treasure for four level 1 characters. The DMG's Heroic Tier Treasure Parcels Table for party level 1 states:quote:1. Magic item, level 5 Since it's just 4 characters, I'm supposed to drop parcel 3 If I'm using Inherent Bonuses, I'm supposed to drop parcel 1 and parcel 4 That leaves me with just quote:2. Magic item, level 4 So over the course of the party's trip from level 1 to level 2, they're going to gain a total of a single level 4 magic item and 720 gp. I can dole this out little by little, such as parcel 7 after an encounter and parcel 10 over another encounter, and then also combine treasures to create a hoard, such as parcels 5, 6, 8 and 9 at the end of the party's quest. I'm also supposed to solicit suggestions or a wishlist from players to get an idea of what they want the level 4 magic item to be (or derive what it should be based on their characters and their interests/build), and then the idea is that the rest of the party will use the 720 gp to buy the other magic items that they want. Did I get all that right? Finally, is it supposed to be 720 gp split between the whole party (whether evenly or however they want to split it per their story), or 720 gp per player?
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Mar 2, 2015 09:32
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm also supposed to solicit suggestions or a wishlist from players to get an idea of what they want the level 4 magic item to be (or derive what it should be based on their characters and their interests/build), and then the idea is that the rest of the party will use the 720 gp to buy the other magic items that they want. But the real answer is that it depends a lot on the kind of campaign you're running. In their original context, inherent bonuses were intended as a fix for low magic settings, which is why they remove a bunch of magic items by default. If that's not what you're running, feel free to add those back in. Most of us just use IB to make sure none of the player's numbers fall through the cracks. Or to go off the parcel rails completely.
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Mar 2, 2015 16:37
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Treasure parcels are a very formalized system for making roughly sure that players don't fall behind on the Red Queen's Race that is 4e equipment. If you're using IBs, you can kind of disregard it entirely.
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Mar 2, 2015 16:42
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For what it's worth there are alternative treasure parcel generation rules in the Rules Compendium, and they come out to about the same amount of magic items per level and don't have you remove any because of inherent bonuses. Then again the RC doesn't mention inherent bonuses at all anywhere (and if there's another Essentials book that does, and that does tell you to give out less items, uh, please let me know because then I've given my party about three times what they should have had). For the record the DMG's rules are still fine although the RC is extremely nice to have.
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Mar 2, 2015 16:47
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IIRC, the RC treasure rules are a return to randomly rolled treasure, in line with the general trend of Essentials trying to make 4e look more like earlier editions. So they basically took the tables above and added some variance. And I'm pretty sure the only places IBs show up are DMG2 and Dark Sun. It's probably too "gamey" to have been included in anything post-Essentials. But like Poison Mushroom said, once you turn on IB, the need to balance treasure pretty much goes out the window. If you and your players are happy with the number of toys they're getting then you're doing just fine. There are really only two issues you can run into once IBs are on: a) On the high end, players could potentially get access to things a half-tier early. Which isn't a huge deal, normally it's just an extra +1. b) On the low end, there are some builds that rely on having a few key magic items. An extreme example would be one of the charged based builds. If you think you've got some people that will hit the char-op boards for ideas, it might not be a bad plan to be up front with your players if you're doing a low-magic game (including the modified IB parcels).
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Mar 2, 2015 18:25
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ImpactVector posted:IIRC, the RC treasure rules are a return to randomly rolled treasure, in line with the general trend of Essentials trying to make 4e look more like earlier editions. So they basically took the tables above and added some variance. Also, there are items whose pluses would be superseded by Inherent Bonuses, but whose effects are tied to the item's actual pluses, or whose effects grow in tiers. We ruled that players got the better version of such items when the players reached the item's level, which is later than they COULD have gotten the new item as random loot, but seemed fair.
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Mar 2, 2015 18:43
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ImpactVector posted:IIRC, the RC treasure rules are a return to randomly rolled treasure, in line with the general trend of Essentials trying to make 4e look more like earlier editions. So they basically took the tables above and added some variance.
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Mar 2, 2015 18:45
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Thanks for the answers - a campaign I had in mind isn't specifically supposed to be low-magic, but I thought of using IB just to make sure the players are less susceptible to loot gaffes on my part. I also did see the loot tables from RC/Essentials, but the random rolling didn't sit well with me. Next question: the 4e games I've seen so far give players free feats, which I assume are supposed to be spent on the 'math fix' feats. Which are those, specifically? I've seen Melee Training, but I don't know the exact names of the others, especially since Essentials has its own versions of the math fix feats.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:Thanks for the answers - a campaign I had in mind isn't specifically supposed to be low-magic, but I thought of using IB just to make sure the players are less susceptible to loot gaffes on my part. An Expertise Feat, a Focus Feat and Improved Defenses
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Mar 2, 2015 20:47
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I've never seen anyone give free focus feats.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:49
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"X Expertise," where X is a given weapon group (Light Blade Expertise, Heavy Blade Expertise) or some other descriptor (Devout Expertise), for to-hit scaling. This is what you'll find in Essentials; used to be Weapon Expertise (Light Blade) & so on, those only give the +attack. Improved Defenses for NAD scaling. Melee Training is so classes have MBAs for OAs that aren't total poo poo (not so much a math fix as it is a feature fix for some defenders or melee dudes who aren't Str based or don't have an in-class MBA like Eldritch Strike).
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Mar 2, 2015 20:49
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gradenko_2000 posted:Thanks for the answers - a campaign I had in mind isn't specifically supposed to be low-magic, but I thought of using IB just to make sure the players are less susceptible to loot gaffes on my part. gradenko_2000 posted:Next question: the 4e games I've seen so far give players free feats, which I assume are supposed to be spent on the 'math fix' feats. Which are those, specifically? I've seen Melee Training, but I don't know the exact names of the others, especially since Essentials has its own versions of the math fix feats. If you want a specific feat I usually just tell players they can take as many instances of Versatile Expertise as they want. That covers all the bases. Plus, the +hit math doesn't actually start to fall behind until level 5, so if you don't want to overload your players with house rules off the bat, it's easy enough to grant as a story reward around then. Same thing with Improved Defenses.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:57
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Since there's neither item crafting nor wish lists in my current game, I just let magic items level when inherent bonuses increase. Keeps stuff simple. Magic items can be fun, but by mid levels, my players are already swimming in options and modifiers...
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Mar 2, 2015 22:03
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I wanted to play without items, inherent bonuses only, for that exact reason. My players disagreed. That's kind of one reason I'm going with the random loot: if we're gonna do this I want to spend as little brainpower as possible on it. Just give me the wishlists and I'll roll on them and make up some reason why the Sacred Bollock Amulet is under the lichlord's doormat.
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Mar 2, 2015 22:28
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My Lovely Horse posted:I wanted to play without items, inherent bonuses only, for that exact reason. My players disagreed. That's kind of one reason I'm going with the random loot: if we're gonna do this I want to spend as little brainpower as possible on it. Just give me the wishlists and I'll roll on them and make up some reason why the Sacred Bollock Amulet is under the lichlord's doormat. Why would you want to play without items? Like removing characters from the modifier treadmill is a good thing, so I am all for inherent bonuses, but half the fun of DND is finding cool, strange items and then wrecking face with it. Not to mention that you would have to massively weaken the enemies the team is supposed to face every level, because even outside of modifiers, characters are expected to have access to a certain amount of magical item assistance.
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Mar 3, 2015 14:22
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Thanks again for the feats advice. One more: what do people mean when they say "background/theme: yes"? If it wasn't already obvious I'm gearing up to try my hand at a 4e PbP
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Mar 3, 2015 14:27
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gradenko_2000 posted:Thanks again for the feats advice. You can pick backgrounds (which usually offer minor skill bonuses or training in a skill your class doesn't normally receive) as part of character creation. Themes are like "super backgrounds" (or mini Paragon Paths if you prefer) that offer some benefits as you level from 1-10, and some extra power choices for your utility picks. Some GMs prefer not to deal with them to make combat a little simpler (since 4e combat gets exponentially more complex as levels go up anyway), and because there are a couple of really good ones (Born Under a Bad Sign/Auspicious Birth lets you use a stat that isn't Con for your maximum HP, for example, which makes some classes less squishy than they should be).
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Mar 3, 2015 14:48
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Madmarker posted:Why would you want to play without items? Like removing characters from the modifier treadmill is a good thing, so I am all for inherent bonuses, but half the fun of DND is finding cool, strange items and then wrecking face with it. Not to mention that you would have to massively weaken the enemies the team is supposed to face every level, because even outside of modifiers, characters are expected to have access to a certain amount of magical item assistance.
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Mar 3, 2015 15:31
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If I wanted to run the original Ravenloft module, but in 4e for some of my friends over Spring Break, how doable would that be and has any good work been done in adopting it?
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Mar 8, 2015 23:14
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I'm confused: The errata'd skill check DCs by level is 5/10/15 for levels 1-3 in the original DMGs, but in the Rules Compendium it's 8/12/19 for level 1. Which should I really be using?
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Mar 9, 2015 18:48
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Rules Compendium is a safer bet pretty much always.
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Mar 9, 2015 19:14
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm confused: The errata'd skill check DCs by level is 5/10/15 for levels 1-3 in the original DMGs, but in the Rules Compendium it's 8/12/19 for level 1. My level 1 players would crush skill checks at the 5/10/15 level. If it's trained they get +5, so they only have to hit average to complete a hard DC. They could flip a coin to succeed if they didn't have an ability mod to add. I use the rules compendium line for winging skill checks so they can succeed untrained at a decent rate but if they're trained they won't have nearly guaranteed success.
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Mar 10, 2015 06:18
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Okay, so Zeitgeist has the finest magic item of all time. The Shoes of Reliable Style. Sure, it has a powerful at-will disguise ability. But the Property is pure gold. 
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Mar 19, 2015 16:49
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So I've recently moved to a smaller place and I don't have room for all my 4e books anymore. Are they worth selling or should I store them for the long term? When I was still playing (dming) the character builder was pretty comprehensive so the books went unused for the most part by my players.
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Mar 22, 2015 07:10
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If you still have the CB, you can mostly get along without the player books, but it will occasionally surprise you with things which don't appear on the sheet properly and you might need to look up in game. Best to keep the monster and DM books if you think you're likely to play again. I don't know about resale value, though.
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Mar 22, 2015 10:39
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Does anyone have a link to a good essay about "what killed 4e" that isn't just gravedancing or stupid random poo poo? I wasn't able to find one using Google, and I feel this might be a topic worth writing about. One thing that I'm concerned about is that the 3.5 people are quite literally erasing reality and saying that the system failed because it was rejected en masse, when it seems to me that it died mostly from bad bloat, bad adventures, a few fundamental math problems that were easily fixed, and of course the most important thing - Mearls deciding to kill it dead because it wasn't "real D&D".
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Mar 25, 2015 22:27
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Does anyone have a link to a good essay about "what killed 4e" that isn't just gravedancing or stupid random poo poo? I wasn't able to find one using Google, and I feel this might be a topic worth writing about. One thing that I'm concerned about is that the 3.5 people are quite literally erasing reality and saying that the system failed because it was rejected en masse, when it seems to me that it died mostly from bad bloat, bad adventures, a few fundamental math problems that were easily fixed, and of course the most important thing - Mearls deciding to kill it dead because it wasn't "real D&D".
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Mar 25, 2015 22:37
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