|
powderific posted:No, sorry, that's just in my setup. The magni works exactly how you want it to. Oh OK, thanks.
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2015 19:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 22:05 |
|
|
I figured there would be DACs which would let you select between Headphones and Line Out, but I can't find any with a button/knob like that. Do most of them just mute line out when you plug in headphones?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2015 19:38
|
|
|
Hashtag Banterzone posted:I figured there would be DACs which would let you select between Headphones and Line Out, but I can't find any with a button/knob like that. Do most of them just mute line out when you plug in headphones? Either that or (as with the O2+ODAC) keeps outputting to both. The 02+ODAC does this because it's literally two separate pieces of hardware in one box. You can run just the amp off the wall wart or just the DAC off USB, separately. I agree that the Schiit setup is probably the best fit for your use case. Personally, I steer clear of any Schiit products after the shitstorm that erupted at Head-Fi after NwAvGuy cast serious doubts about the safety of one of their amps, which would output a pulse of over 2V DC to the headphone jack when switched off. One of their previous amps has had several documented cases of actually killing headphones this way. Schiit basically denied the whole thing, then tried to pass it off as completely normal, until finally they relented and fixed the drat thing, while claiming that they had originally left out the safe power off relay because "it would impact the sound". And of course, NwAvGuy was permabanned from Head-Fi for daring to speak out against one of their sponsors. So yeah. bullschiit. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Feb 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2015 20:47
|
|
|
That's a bummer, I don't spend that much time on the headphone forums so I'd not heard anything about the drama.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2015 20:57
|
|
|
NwAvGuy's recap is here: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/07/banned-at-head-fi.html
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2015 21:01
|
|
|
Pretty interesting reading. Schiitt eventually took care of it but certainly didn't handle it that well at first. I've always found Head-Fi's ban on mentioning testing both silly and telling.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2015 21:30
|
|
|
powderific posted:Pretty interesting reading. Schiitt eventually took care of it but certainly didn't handle it that well at first. I've always found Head-Fi's ban on mentioning testing both silly and telling. Well, it is a "double blind test-free zone".
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2015 22:16
|
|
|
So the subs on my klipsch 4.1s are blown. I'm going to try to refoam them, but failing that, sounds like I want A2s with an add-on sub as a good replacement? I don't care much about the surround, I just listen to music. Size is a factor though, a satellite + sub setup is really all I have room for. I must have the longest lasting klipsch promedia setup ever from what I am hearing. Used on ebay something like 10 years ago. Just had to rewire the speakers and then the subs go. The amp circuit board still looks great.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 02:31
|
|
|
Dyscrasia posted:So the subs on my klipsch 4.1s are blown. I'm going to try to refoam them, but failing that, sounds like I want A2s with an add-on sub as a good replacement? I don't care much about the surround, I just listen to music. Size is a factor though, a satellite + sub setup is really all I have room for. How space constrained are you talking about? Like not having enough space for a pair of Micca MB42x? I personally find Audioengine stuff to be horribly overrated and overpriced especially when considering their spotty reliability.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2015 15:43
|
|
|
Palladium posted:How space constrained are you talking about? Like not having enough space for a pair of Micca MB42x? I personally find Audioengine stuff to be horribly overrated and overpriced especially when considering their spotty reliability. Spotty reliability? Apart from overheating issues with the first generation A5, this is the first I've heard of bad reliability on any of their products  I've had a set of A2s (that I sold) and I'm still using a set of A5+s that I bought a year ago as a secondary setup in my bedroom. No problems so far, and they sound great.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2015 17:19
|
|
|
I bought my A2s in 2008 and they've been back for repair once out of warranty, and the power supply went out once. I'm happy with the support though—the bench fee for repair was a flat $60. There's a lot of hyperbole in audio reviews so I can see how one might think the A2's are overrated. But for $250 I still think they're pretty good, and definitely not overpriced—especially if you need something particularly compact and care about the aesthetics of your speakers. It seems like there are more options out there for small, self powered speakers than there were when I got my A2s. If I had the space on my desk I'd upgrade to JBL LSR305s as I've been extremely impressed with the set at our office. The Definitive Technology Inclines also seem interesting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2015 19:41
|
|
|
Palladium posted:How space constrained are you talking about? Like not having enough space for a pair of Micca MB42x? I personally find Audioengine stuff to be horribly overrated and overpriced especially when considering their spotty reliability. Those miccas would fit just fine. Something like the Audioengine a4s would even fit. I was thinking bookshelf speakers were generally larger than that. Dyscrasia fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Feb 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2015 23:45
|
|
|
powderific posted:Pretty interesting reading. Schiitt eventually took care of it but certainly didn't handle it that well at first. I've always found Head-Fi's ban on mentioning testing both silly and telling. Anecdote here but I have the Schiit Asgard 2. I dunno what the hell they did but the relay in my amp sure likes randomly clicking even when off for several hours. I also tried the pre-amp function with a NAD power amp I had lying around. There's something going on with the muting circuitry and relay because it doesn't seem to be particularly responsive if you turn the amp on and off too quickly. The first time I turned it off to change the gain settings, it put the power amp straight into protection. Doing this with headphones plugged in causes a significantly louder thump than if you choose to turn the Asgard 2 off after a few minutes of operation. Chafe fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Feb 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 16:19
|
|
|
Thanks all for the helpful thread. Like many people I've been using a lovely Logitech 5.1 for years and years along with a Creative Audizy ZS sound card which finally died after 13 years. I'm still reading over the home audio thread and getting my feet wet with all this stuff, but I think what I'm looking for is the following: Usage: Games, Music, and Movies/TV (in that order) Speaker Layout: 3.1 (seems most ideal for the above) Space: Looking for speakers in the A2+ size range Budget: Flexible. Don't want to break the bank unnecessarily, but let's say I'm looking for all my options below $1000. However, I am also looking for good set of headphones as well, for the same Usage as above. So, here's where things start to get confusing for me since I don't really know where to start. Stupid newbie questions below: 1) Speakers tend to get sold in pairs; how could I even build a 3.1 setup? 2) What are the other options available in the A2+ class of size/performance? 3) Passive speakers require a receiver, yes? So, if I just want to pick up a new sound card to plug in to my PC to drive everything then I probably want Active instead? Do they even make passive speakers in the A2 size class? Is passive worth it? 4) Whether I go the sound card or receiver route, I'll need a headphone amp regardless correct? Are there good soundcards/receivers out there with built in headphone amps (I know of the Xonar and latest Creative Z lines) or is that better served by being a separate unit? Edit: Added budget above. Edit Again: Maybe this should go in the home audio thread? vacuity fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Feb 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2015 02:42
|
|
|
Probably worth hitting up the home theater thread if you get into receivers. Also, for $1000 budget you can get loads of great stuff, and definitely jump up from the A2's in sound quality. But the A2's are exceptionally small--most other things I'd say to check out would be bigger. On the 3 channel thing, If you get active studio monitor type speakers they usually sell them in singles. Three JBL LSR 305's and a sub would fall under your $1000 range. They're pretty big though. Do you really need the center channel? You probably don't need a headphone amp. I like having an external DAC/amp combo because my onboard sound is noisy and I like having a physical knob for headphone volume, but it's still not bad straight off the board. The headphone thread has more info.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2015 04:01
|
|
|
If you're absolutely dead-set on 3.1 with the ~A2 size constraint, then picking up an inexpensive home theater receiver is probably your best bet. You could then grab some small satellite bookshelf speakers for the R/L channels and whatever their equivalent center channel speaker is for the third along with a sub. Anything else seems like it would be needlessly complicated and difficult to work with.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2015 16:06
|
|
|
Are you including good headphones in your $1000 budget? Because that changes things a little. You could do USB DAC/Headphone Amp combo to studio monitors and a sub, or a 5.1 home theater receiver to passive speakers if you decide you really need a center channel. Not sure what other options there are tbh. Hashtag Banterzone fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Feb 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2015 16:48
|
|
|
I'm looking for recommendations on a new speaker set-up for my computer. My old Logitech X-540 system is just not doing it anymore. Usage, in order of importance: Gaming(flight sims, Arma, etc.), Music, and movies Budget: 200-400 CAD Country: Canada Set-up: I have a 5.1 set up now which I really like for determining where bad dudes are at when I'm dogfighting in sims or playing Arma. Would prefer to stick with 5.1 but if the options aren't great versus the 2.1 options, I'll consider it. Space: I can do anything wall mounted, kinda limited to X-540 sized systems(lots more room for the sub tho)
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2015 06:08
|
|
|
Several people have asked about 5.1 in the last page or so and the answer is the same. There isn't much good for 5.1 computer speakers anymore. Most people prefer 2.0 or 2.1 for music/general and then headphones for positional audio. If you really want 5.1, you're looking at stuff that't not much better than the Logitechs you already have or it's time to mosey over to the home theater thread and look at getting a receiver and passive speakers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2015 06:20
|
|
|
powderific posted:Several people have asked about 5.1 in the last page or so and the answer is the same. There isn't much good for 5.1 computer speakers anymore. Most people prefer 2.0 or 2.1 for music/general and then headphones for positional audio. If you really want 5.1, you're looking at stuff that't not much better than the Logitechs you already have or it's time to mosey over to the home theater thread and look at getting a receiver and passive speakers. Well the logitech's I have are awful - the drivers in the speakers are starting to gently caress up and get awful distortion from medium-high pitches even at low volumes, so staying with them isn't really an option. I saw these, which seem to be fairly well regarded by the customer reviews, but they're not exactly the most objective source for opinion http://www.ncix.com/detail/logitech-z906-thx-certified-5-1-c7-64882-1359.htm . e: Oh god my wallet throbs with pain. These look pretty nice http://www.edifier.com/ca/en/speakers/s550-encore-5.1-surround Mederlock fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Feb 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2015 06:27
|
|
|
powderific posted:Probably worth hitting up the home theater thread if you get into receivers. Also, for $1000 budget you can get loads of great stuff, and definitely jump up from the A2's in sound quality. But the A2's are exceptionally small--most other things I'd say to check out would be bigger. Electric Bugaloo posted:If you're absolutely dead-set on 3.1 with the ~A2 size constraint, then picking up an inexpensive home theater receiver is probably your best bet. You could then grab some small satellite bookshelf speakers for the R/L channels and whatever their equivalent center channel speaker is for the third along with a sub. Anything else seems like it would be needlessly complicated and difficult to work with. Thanks guys. I'm not married to the 3.1 concept; that just seemed the way to go after I started reading the Home Audio thread. While I know the center channel is wasted on music, my computer is my primary media station so I do use it frequently for movies/tv, and the types of games I play (RPGs) tend to be heavy on the talking. If you guys think 2.0 or 2.1 is sufficient for these scenarios then I'll gladly reconsider. As for the size restraints, I was hoping to find some options within the A2 range. These would be sitting on my desk, which is not that big, and right in my face, in a pretty standard 12x14 room, so I just want something nice I can hear up close and across the room at comfortable volumes. Again, not married to it; if bookshelf speakers might be better bang for my buck I'm all ears, but I'd still want something reasonable size that won't overpower my desk since it's my only placement option. Hashtag Banterzone posted:Are you including good headphones in your $1000 budget? Because that changes things a little. Yes, I am including a good pair of headphones in that budget. However, the headphones will mostly be for night listening if that changes things any. Sounds like maybe a receiver + speakers is the route I should go? Still working my way through the other threads; there's a lot to learn. Also, I'm in the LA area if anyone has recommendations for shops I can visit to listen/see some things in person.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2015 09:19
|
|
|
If you want 3.1 it probably makes sense to do the receiver thing, but I really think that adding a center channel may be problematic if you're already worried about overwhelming the desk. This is from someone who has never owned anything with a center channel so I could be giving you bad advice on how important it is though. You could get Adam Artist 3's, a cheap sub like the Polk PSW10, and some OK for night listening headphones for right at $1000.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2015 17:14
|
|
|
Whats the modern day equivalent of the z5500s? Something in a similar price range if possible. Or if anyone knows where I could find z680s or z5500s in stock new that would be good too. e?: Oh its these? http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121050CVF e2: quote:Cons: Anyone care to weigh in on z5500s vs z906? Nierbo fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Feb 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2015 23:41
|
|
|
Is there a dirt cheap speaker I can buy that will sound better than built in tv speakers? Like under $30.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2015 02:14
|
|
|
teraflame posted:Is there a dirt cheap speaker I can buy that will sound better than built in tv speakers? Like under $30. Closest I could find was a refurb soundbar for ~$50. If you're willing to use active speakers, they can be had for $15 or so per pair. I would only consider the latter choice if you know you can change the volume from your TV remote.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2015 07:23
|
|
|
What is the best DAC for the JBL 305s? By best I mean "best performance for the price". Thanks y'all 
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2015 05:33
|
|
|
Taima posted:What is the best DAC for the JBL 305s? By best I mean "best performance for the price". Thanks y'all Which features do you need? S/PDIF, Toslink, USB? Volume control? Headphone output? For S/PDIF and Toslink, it's hard to beat the Fiio D3. For USB, it's hard to beat the Behringer UCA202 for sheer value for money. Or if world-beating specs at a slightly higher price is what you want, go with the ODAC. E: Or do you even need a DAC? Is the analog output from your mainboard particularly noisy? KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Mar 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2015 06:57
|
|
|
Thanks for the response. I think the Fiio D3 is for me since I would be using the 305s through my computer and I have coax/spdif and dont use headphones. As for why I need a DAC, that's a good question. Truth be told I'm just going off of what people seem to say, and I don't have a dedicated sound card in my computer.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2015 08:10
|
|
|
Try the integrated sound first. Listen to some music at the loudest level you think you're going to play at. Then stop the music and listen if you can hear any noise. It's normal to hear a little bit of hiss with your ear right up to the speaker, but there should none at your listening position. If there is no noise to be heard, you don't need an external DAC.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2015 09:05
|
|
|
For active speakers like that, I like having a passive attenuator between the speakers and the source so I can have a hardware volume knob and avoid bad pops when turning off and on. Have one of these on my work set and it's great (if a little big): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/825433-REG/SM_Pro_Audio_SMP_NPP_1_Nano_Patch_Passive_Stereo.html
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2015 00:02
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:Try the integrated sound first. Listen to some music at the loudest level you think you're going to play at. Then stop the music and listen if you can hear any noise. It's normal to hear a little bit of hiss with your ear right up to the speaker, but there should none at your listening position. Wow ok, so the only benefit is to avoid interference? There is no increase in sound quality from a DAC besides that?
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2015 05:19
|
|
|
Taima posted:Wow ok, so the only benefit is to avoid interference? There is no increase in sound quality from a DAC besides that? The dirty little secret about DACs is that the chips are laughably cheap, and even basic onboard sound manages near-perfect linearity and low enough distortion that it is completely inaudible. DAC chips are a low cost commodity, thanks to the massive advances of the semiconductor industry. The biggest possible drawback of integrated sound is that the analog bits are inside a rather noisy environment, and may pick up noise in some cases. My motherboard is rather noisy on the analog outputs, which is why I use a Toslink DAC. Anything beyond a Fiio D3 or ODAC is basically pointless, expensive are DACs generally bullshit, and they usually measure worse than the ODAC. The only feature that's really missing from those two is a volume control, but controls like the Fostex PC-1 are cheap and work perfectly well. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Mar 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2015 06:52
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:Anything beyond a Fiio D3 or ODAC is basically pointless, expensive are DACs generally bullshit, and they usually measure worse than the ODAC. As for the rest: there's still bottom of the barrel poo poo out there that is compromised because fractions of cents needed to be saved. Onboard audio qualifies at least sometimes. The difference between now and ten years ago is that you're not going to notice at all unless in a direct comparison with something better. I wasn't really aware the output of my onboard sound was sounding comparatively muffled until I got my Roland Quad Capture (for recording purposes). Took me by surprise, really. I expected the difference to be just the noise level, maybe. Don't know if it matters for my point, but my laptop doesn't use the extremely common Realtek HD Audio thing, but one made by Conexant. Maybe the Realtek's better. I'm a 100% sure I can't tell the Quad Capture apart from a $25 Behringer thing though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2015 11:37
|
|
|
Were you using headphones or speakers? A lot of soundcards (both integrated and add-on), as well as many amps and other devices have relatively high output impedance. Optimally, you should have at least a 1:8 relationship between output and headphones, so for a set of 32 ohm headphones, the output impedance should be lower than 4 ohms. Amps and receivers without dedicated headphone amp circuits can have output impedance as high as 200 ohms in some cases, unlike well-designed headphones amps such as the O2, which has near-zero output impedance. Even good hifi gear can have headphone output impedance around 10-20 ohms, which makes them less than ideal for common 32 ohm headphones. Having an output impedance that is too high can cause nonlinear frequency response, among other things. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Mar 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2015 12:44
|
|
|
That's both going to the same line level mixer, going to the same amp, going to the same speakers. Both set pretty close to the same output level (within 1.5dB, according to the mixer's peak meter) and with Dolby enhancements disabled for the onboard thing. Playing the same music from the same file in the same program. Not really scientific, but not as bad a comparison as it could be. I really haven't got the in depth knowledge to argue the technical cause of the difference and it's fair enough if you aren't convinced. I just think that, probably, even with laughably cheap DAC chips, there are still corners that could be cut in the implementation. Doesn't detract from your point that the whole audiophile DAC thing is basically a scam though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2015 14:36
|
|
|
Flipperwaldt posted:I really haven't got the in depth knowledge to argue the technical cause of the difference and it's fair enough if you aren't convinced. I just think that, probably, even with laughably cheap DAC chips, there are still corners that could be cut in the implementation. I'm not trying to undermine your experience, I just wanted to dig further into it You're 100% right that the implementation matters a lot when it comes to using DAC chips. When NwAvGuy followed the ESS datasheet and reference design as strictly as he possibly could, the resulting performance was good, but not nearly as good as what the chip was capable of. He had to do a lot of changes and tweaks to the design to reach measurement results that came close to maximum specs for the chip. That said, even with a very basic cut-corner design, it should definitely be possible to reach a combined noise+THD of less than -70dB, which should be inaudible in most cases. Most DACs you will find for sale quote the spec sheet for the DAC chip itself, not for their finished product. Some of them don't even publish specs, including some companies that sell $10k+ DACs. Hardly any of them utilize the full potential of the chips they use.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2015 14:58
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:I'm not trying to undermine your experience, I just wanted to dig further into it On one hand I'm convinced the difference is there and it would be interesting to know what the cause is, on the other hand I remember adjusting equalizer settings while mixing a track for maybe half a minute before realizing it wasn't even enabled. I mean, I can totally speculate that there are still DAC chips out there with lovely filters in them, as that would align with a couple of other experiences with cheap gear (think Bluetooth audio receiver with apparent aliasing, not actual gear gear), but I'd have no other argument than that my gut is telling me that might be the case.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2015 16:26
|
|
|
You can do an RMAA test to see if there's a measurable difference. If it sounds muffled, there's probably some high frequency rolloff.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2015 16:33
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:You can do an RMAA test to see if there's a measurable difference.  Can you even hear less than half a dB difference? Seems ridiculous to claim that, but here we are.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2015 17:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 22:05 |
|
|
Flipperwaldt posted:Well, it's there. Sort of. Well, it's mandatory to level match serious ABX tests to less than 0.5dB difference. The reasoning is that we may not be able to hear it outright, but subconsciously we will prefer the ever so slightly louder option, even at minute level differences. What's shown by that graph may be picked up in an direct comparison, for instance during an ABX test, but you wouldn't quite be able to put your finger on it. Maybe you wouldn't be able to get it every time, but I think certainly enough to make it statistically significant. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2015 19:02
|
|