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Trast posted:Wasn't the main appeal of Oracle that it was an established character proving that a disability didn't preclude them from being useful or effecting great change?
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Feb 26, 2015 18:46
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Was Taters posted:Still really digging Gotham Academy, although that Tristan revelation was weird. I felt the whole Tristan thing was supposed to represent the youthful vampire with a Gotham style twist.
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Feb 26, 2015 20:02
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Trast posted:Wasn't the main appeal of Oracle that it was an established character proving that a disability didn't preclude them from being useful or effecting great change? Turning Oracle into an AI so you can keep walking Bab's seems to miss the point of the character. It's like you're JUST reading a New 52 thing for the first time.
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Feb 26, 2015 20:52
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Like I said, it's making the best of a dumb situation. DC's dumb reasoning for making Barbara Batgirl again was that she's the 'iconic' one, except that the most visible version of the character in the last 5 years has been in the Arkham games... where she's Oracle. So now the current team on Batgirl is trying to fix DC's mess by letting them have their cake and eat it. We have walking Babs as Batgirl, and AI Babs that still sees herself in the chair as Oracle, I'm betting.
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Feb 26, 2015 22:35
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While AI Babs becoming Oracle seems a given, the Secret Origin story seems to imply she thinks she's Batgirl (most likely the one on Simone's run) I also don't believe the Oracle persona existed on the N52
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Feb 27, 2015 02:23
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Well, yeah. That's why it's the antagonist in the story right now. Your boy Lobdell already gave the New 52 Oracle.. 
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 02:40
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Is Batman Inc as an entity completely erased? We never got to see how that would change Bruce Wayne's world.
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Feb 27, 2015 03:16
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Die Laughing posted:Is Batman Inc as an entity completely erased? We never got to see how that would change Bruce Wayne's world. It's sort of shown in Batman Eternal and how it led to Bruce going bankrupt.
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Feb 27, 2015 03:28
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Plus Spyral and the girl's school in Grayson. \/ Hypertime!! Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 03:30
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Teenage Fansub posted:Plus Spyral and the girl's school in Grayson. The girl's school that Bruce busted with the help of
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Feb 27, 2015 03:33
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Trast posted:Wasn't the main appeal of Oracle that it was an established character proving that a disability didn't preclude them from being useful or effecting great change? Turning Oracle into an AI so you can keep walking Bab's seems to miss the point of the character. Oh, it absolutely misses the point, which puts it right in line with something like ninety percent of DC's New 52-related decisions. e: that said, it's probably making the best of a bad situation; at least there's some interesting stories we could get out of it. But drat, every bit of characterization that made Oracle interesting is gone now and that makes me sad.
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Feb 27, 2015 08:41
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redbackground posted:I like how it's completely glossed over how Joker singlehandedly removed that loving huge t-rex, giant penny, and hanging card from the Batcave. I mean, that is Loeb levels of dumb. I love Snyder, but c'mon. What exactly would you get from knowing this information? Would it matter at all?
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Feb 27, 2015 19:22
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TheJoker138 posted:It's like you're JUST reading a New 52 thing for the first time. Well the New 52 was certainly dead by the time they scripted this so I'm more disappointed then anything else. It seemed like the DC editors were letting their writers do the writing again instead of company mandates if you look at some of the recent stuff. DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Oh, it absolutely misses the point, which puts it right in line with something like ninety percent of DC's New 52-related decisions. Same, I've read much more in comics about Oracle/Barbara then Batgirl/Barbara. My mental image of Batgirl is either Cass of Stephanie with Barbara in their ears back at the Birds of Prey base.
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Feb 27, 2015 19:30
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The_Rob posted:What exactly would you get from knowing this information? redbackground fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 19:34
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The Barbara that became a congresswoman in the 70's is a pretty good Barbara. Forget Oracle. She should star in Prez.
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 19:35
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Trast posted:Well the New 52 was certainly dead by the time they scripted this so I'm more disappointed then anything else. It seemed like the DC editors were letting their writers do the writing again instead of company mandates if you look at some of the recent stuff. At this point it's far too late for DC to retcon Barbara regaining her ability to walk without some major backlash. They definitely made their bed on this and have to make the best of something they can't undo like a number of other things they have. If they were smart they would have either just let Barbara be Oracle or just not included Killing Joke in new52 continuity at all and let Barbara never be shot. Killing Joke works well enough as a standalone story (and a lot of people prefer it that way for that matter) and the only thing it really gives to continuity is crippling Barbara, which is the thing people hated most about it.
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Feb 27, 2015 20:24
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lotus circle posted:It's dead in the sense that the books won't be branded "New 52" anymore. Continuity is still the same. "Oracle" was pretty much erased up until this point with the AI now - no hint of it existing was made by Simone or anyone else, so it's clearly retooling an old concept that a lot of people missed. I thought the Killing Joke was in the New 52 timeline because it's considered one of those critical to the grim Batman idea. I really hate the mishmass that New 52 was.
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Feb 27, 2015 22:06
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Trast posted:I thought the Killing Joke was in the New 52 timeline because it's considered one of those critical to the grim Batman idea. I really hate the mishmass that New 52 was. Removing Oracle from the equation and just having her disability fixed through such weak means makes what happened to her in Killing Joke that much worse. Killing Joke should just have been left out because it already works well enough as an OGN divorced from continuity. There's enough grit between Batman and Joker that it wouldn't have made much of a difference.
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Feb 27, 2015 22:47
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Well yeah, if she's not Oracle nobody has a clue what to do with Barbara. I swear the first year or so of the new 52 felt like there was a flying coffee cup flashback every issue because getting shot is pretty much the only other thing anybody can remember about her.
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Feb 27, 2015 23:35
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Travis343 posted:Well yeah, if she's not Oracle nobody has a clue what to do with Barbara. I swear the first year or so of the new 52 felt like there was a flying coffee cup flashback every issue because getting shot is pretty much the only other thing anybody can remember about her. I think that was more that Simone was trying to not gloss over the recovery, in order to try and preserve some of the idea of her paralysis, by focusing on the journey from the chair back to Batgirl. Again, making the best of a bad situation. There's a pretty heartbreaking article that blogger Jill Pantozzi wrote at the time of the relaunch (Pantozzi has muscular dystrophy and uses a wheelchair herself), talking about what Oracle meant to her, and a follow up interview she did with Simone, that covers the issue from both sides, whether keeping Killing Joke and having Babs recover was a better call, or if they should've just said it hasn't happened. Link. Link the second.
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Feb 27, 2015 23:42
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Travis343 posted:Well yeah, if she's not Oracle nobody has a clue what to do with Barbara. You mean except for right now in her current generally acclaimed run? Dark_Tzitzimine posted:To be fair, it does feel more like a mix of Barbara and Steph's tenure as Batgirl. Dear comic creators. Please feel free to do whatever you want to do to turn a dull, dreary series into an enjoyable one. Barbara watched anime with her dad and it informs her crime fighting. I believe it 
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Feb 28, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 23:58
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Teenage Fansub posted:You mean except for right now in her current generally acclaimed run? To be fair, it does feel more like a mix of Barbara and Steph's tenure as Batgirl.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:12
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It is pretty good but it is also only been like, five issues out of almost forty since she became Batgirl again. And yes, aside from the photographic memory thing the character does feel a lot more like Steph to me.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:35
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Travis343 posted:It is pretty good but it is also only been like, five issues out of almost forty since she became Batgirl again.
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Feb 28, 2015 01:51
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quote:Nrama: One of the more shocking moments in this issue was Alfred losing his hand. What were your thoughts on making that part of the story, and did you think twice about doing that to one of the more beloved characters in the Batman universe? http://www.newsarama.com/23634-scott-snyder-hands-us-answers-about-shocking-batman-39-spoilers.html I don't really follow his logic. Gotham is drowning on this new "incurable" strand of the Joker Venom, the JL is out of commision due being jokerized, Batman has to seek for help at the Court of Owls, everything seems to point at the Joker being some kind of inmortal evil or whatever and Alfred losing his hand is the definitive sign of everything going to hell? Seriously? Boy do I hope the June relaunch sweeps Endgame under the rug and is never brought again.
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Mar 1, 2015 01:26
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I generally like Snyder but at this point I'm just going to conclude that he's poo poo at writing the Joker. The cave isn't safe? You just did that, like DotF was like...yesterday, dogg. Quit acting like you've been writing Joker stories for decades and every one you do is some huge capstone to the characters. I see all these gruesome Capullo covers and it's like, yeah, cool, dude's a great artist. Didn't we just do this poo poo? I have to double check to see, is this a DotF cover that I forgot about, or is this a new Batman. I'm really fuckin burned out on huge apocalyptic Batman stories, I guess.
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Mar 1, 2015 03:21
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Yeah it feels like that's the only kind of story Snyder likes telling. The "nothing will be the same/this changes everything" type epic. The problem is they kind of get tiring and it's these super long epics are the only thing he's been writing since new 52 began. Capullo's art is really the best part of the title right now.
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Mar 1, 2015 03:26
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If the tiny purple swimming backpack was in the script, then he's a fantastic Joker writer. I'm enjoying Endgame, but it could really have come much later. Imagine if that Arkham guy he was posing as was actually a regular cast member for months rather than for a few pages and an annual. My favorite parts have definitely been Annual #3 and the backups focusing on The Joker psychologically impacting regular people (e: well, inmates in the backups, but not super-people.) Good work, Tynion Four. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 04:44
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Teenage Fansub posted:I'm enjoying Endgame, but it could really have come much later. Imagine if that Arkham guy he was posing as was actually a regular cast member for months rather than for a few pages and an annual.
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Mar 1, 2015 04:46
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It feels like this was rushed out for the sake of doing the story before either one or both of them leave the title, which confuses me because I'm pretty sure they're both still on batman after this.
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Mar 1, 2015 05:52
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goldenoreos posted:It feels like this was rushed out for the sake of doing the story before either one or both of them leave the title, which confuses me because I'm pretty sure they're both still on batman after this. (and he used him so elegantly at the end of his Detective run, too.) redbackground fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 05:56
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While Horror Movie Joker is awful, Snyder's take on Batman isn't the best either. I can pass Bruce being hilariously incompetent on Eternal because Snyder isn't that involved there but so far the detective angle of Batman has been kind of neglected. Most of the time Bruce only brute forces his way to the solution through beating people instead of doing actual investigations.
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Mar 1, 2015 06:11
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redbackground posted:There definitely was not enough time between DoTF and Endgame. DoTF seems awfully superfluous now at this point (or Endgame comes off as redundant, take your pick). I'm just not a fan of Snyder's HorrorJoker, and there has been a lot of it. That's probably my only problem really. I don't really mind DoTF or Endgame Joker, but the lack of time between them is the problem. I mean, hell, as much as I vocally hate Eternal, if it at least came to a close in the main title rather than still being run alongside stories placed after it, then at least the stories would feel like there'd been more time apart. As it is, especially since Zero Year is a prequel, DoTF ends with Joker disappearing, some bullshit happens in Eternal, then Joker immediately reappears with god mode activated. It's well, like a horror movie. Only, like a bad horror movie series that's gotten stagnant where the villain just pops up with no real explanation. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 07:17
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Don't forget about that completely forgettable three(?)-issue Clayface story that happens between Joker attacks. I cant even remember now if that happened before Zero Year or after it. I'm torn on Eternal because the actual plot is dumb as gently caress but drat if I'm not loving the way they're reintroducing Stephanie. Mob boss Selina is also really dope. Is her book good now? I remember it being among the absolute worst of the Batfamily books when the new52 launched. What issue does she start being a bad rear end mobster?
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Mar 1, 2015 07:38
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Travis343 posted:Mob boss Selina is also really dope. Is her book good now? I remember it being among the absolute worst of the Batfamily books when the new52 launched. What issue does she start being a bad rear end mobster?
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Mar 1, 2015 15:45
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I'm re-reading Morrison's Batman run, and I remember there being a site that kept annotations on all of it. Anyone remember what it was?
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Mar 3, 2015 01:32
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Funny Book Babylon. It was a goon project that included one of the first podcasts I listened to on the regular. It involved a bunch of smart dudes having a pretty intelligent conversation about comics while their producer split hairs and derailed everything.
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Mar 3, 2015 02:17
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Am I making things up or Snyder's gradually replacing the Batfamily with his own characters?
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Mar 3, 2015 02:34
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Am I making things up or Snyder's gradually replacing the Batfamily with his own characters? Even to this day, I don't care for Harper Row at all.
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Mar 3, 2015 02:42
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Bruce hasn't had any helpers in training or commanding the batcave for years. I have no problem with Harper and Julia taking those positions. Snyder could acknowledge Damian at all, but I don't really care that he's not using him. e: I wished they hadn't shelved Carrie Kelly and let Bruce have a complete girl squad. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 02:44
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