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why do i have like 20% chance of having to "recompile the kernel"or whatever when i turn on virtualbox. the error tells me do type some crap int the console, so i do, a couple minutes later it says done and then it works again? idk. strange computing
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Mar 1, 2015 20:22
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use vmware instead why are you using virtualbox linux opengl has built-in support for vmware's opengl acceleration now.
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Mar 1, 2015 20:25
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is it free, as in beer ?
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Mar 1, 2015 20:25
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yes vmware player is free and it can do all the desktop poo poo you need it to do
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Mar 1, 2015 20:28
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Mr Dog posted:yes vmware player is free and it can do all the desktop poo poo you need it to do cool. thnx. i had vmware fusion on my macintoesh computer and it cost dollers .... what a fail
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Mar 1, 2015 20:31
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:x11 does not ship with osx right quote:and is not supported by the vendor mostly but not quite right, XQuartz is hosted on an Apple-run site (Mac OS Forge) the people who hack on XQuartz tend to work for Apple. I don’t think any do so as part of their official day job though. also unlike X on Linux these days, XQuartz is sufficiently compatible with the past that Symbolics OpenGenera has no trouble with it. (well, other than needing a bunch of xmodmap to get the meta keys right, but what did you expect from a Virtual Lisp Machine?) most of the Linux guides to running OpenGenera start with “install this many-years-old version of Ubuntu in a VM so you have a working X…”
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Mar 1, 2015 20:44
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Smythe posted:why do i have like 20% chance of having to "recompile the kernel"or whatever when i turn on virtualbox. the error tells me do type some crap int the console, so i do, a couple minutes later it says done and then it works again? idk. strange computing it's poo poo imvho, use something else
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Mar 1, 2015 20:57
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Zom Aur posted:it needs to recompile the kernel modules for virtualbox every time the kernel is updated. do Linux kernel modules still not have a stable binary interface in TYOOL 2015?
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Mar 1, 2015 21:05
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no, and for good reason
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Mar 1, 2015 21:09
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Mr Dog posted:no, and for good reason well, there is *a* reason. calling it a *good* reason is probably a bridge too far. the unstable driver interface is intentional but i'm not sure it's a good thing. i admire the intentions but the result is crap: shitloads of proprietary blobs with ever-changing weirdo shims
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Mar 1, 2015 21:24
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:this was literally true if you go back early enough lol no it is possible to support a wide variety of hardware without loving over users xf86 style if you have a moderately good graphics stack (architectural design + implementation). even microsoft managed to do it. with gdi. xfree86 was a shitshow because it was a garbage tier implementation of an idiot babby architecture. you know how you love to lie about osx being stuck in the 80s? x11 actually is. except even though it was designed in the 80s it's so poo poo it might as well have come from the 1940s. literally the only decent-in-the-abstract idea in x11 is network transparency, but hey ho it's so bad in practice that shipping pixels across the wire with poo poo protocols like vnc actually works better (and not just because it's faster, but also because your software doesn't die if the tcp connection does) quote:x11 does not ship with osx and is not supported by the vendor the reason x11 is not bundled any more is that it's irrelevant to 99% of osx users, and this is a good thing
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Mar 1, 2015 21:29
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do you think that would change if the kernel interface was stable?
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Mar 1, 2015 21:29
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:well, there is *a* reason. calling it a *good* reason is probably a bridge too far. nbsd was right
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Mar 1, 2015 21:31
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would you get rid of silly wrappers if the linux driver api and abi were stable? no. would you get rid of massive user pain? yup.
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Mar 1, 2015 21:33
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Suspicious Dish posted:do you think that would change if the kernel interface was stable? i wouldn't have to go hunting for the newest patch to an ugly shim layer for proprietary drivers every time i patch the kernel like i said, i admire the goal. the goal was great. proprietary drivers are terrible. but they are apparently not going away. and twenty years of suffering is quite enough, thanks.
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Mar 1, 2015 21:37
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if you want lovely proprietary binary drivers go use osx or windows real talk like yeah apple's own hardware has gr8 drivers but lol if you think realtek or whoever gives even 1/10th of a gently caress when they know full well microsoft will just get blamed for their shitboat garbage and not them and if you aren't  pc gaming then what the hell do you need proprietary gpu drivers for? ok maybe cad poo poo, is there literally one other thing?
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Mar 1, 2015 21:40
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BobHoward posted:lol no bear in mind i was talking about 1997 when they began this, in 1994, the xfree86 people were not starting with a moderately good graphics stack. they were starting with the half-baked mess that was the original x11 consortium's "X386" port. there were a thousand lovely things going on all at once, and the codebase was, frankly, disgusting the proprietary vendors started from the same lovely start, but they had time and money and a carefully constrained set of hardware. hp and sun and sgi could take the consortium's turd and polish it into something pretty good really fast. the xfree86 guys had to take a much longer, harder road to the same destination
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Mar 1, 2015 21:40
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to be clear, i have absolutely no desire for the entire world to use linux because most of that world is comprised of loving idiots who know full well they can feign stupidity (if they even need to feign it at all) to force other people to do their job for them and quite frankly you can't pay me enough to deal with that crap but i don't want linux to be hard to use just to keep "the plebs" out either because guess what if something's pointlessly hard for them it's pointlessly hard for me too. i don't miss xf86config and init script bullshit being consigned to the garbage dump of history. lemme use linux in peace and if you want to use osx then go right ahead, just as long as there isn't yet more loving software patent garbage preventing me from having A Method And Apparatus For Putting Pictures On A Computer Display Device because apparently putting a toll booth on every possible way of doing some loving math is cool and good
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Mar 1, 2015 21:44
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Mr Dog posted:and if you aren't i'm playin vidya games on the same desktop and laptop i use for work
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Mar 1, 2015 21:57
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the linux kernel doesn't have a stable interface because kernel devs believe you can make wide sweeping changes to a thousand different drivers with no consequence if it weren't for the antitrust concerns, Microsoft probably would've made WHQL signatures mandatory by now
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Mar 1, 2015 22:05
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BobHoward posted:lol no wireshark now has a native interface via QT and I finally free to banish XQuartz from the realm
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Mar 1, 2015 22:45
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:...X386...xfree86... X386... XFree86... X Three Eighty Six... X Free Eighty Six... *Th*ree... *F*ree... 
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Mar 1, 2015 22:46
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Mr Dog posted:if you want lovely proprietary binary drivers go use osx or windows do your lovely rear end free as in piss drivers do video hardware decoding
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Mar 1, 2015 22:47
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Its only Free if your time is Worthless
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Mar 1, 2015 22:48
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Shinku ABOOKEN posted:X386... xfree86 was a fork of X386
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Mar 1, 2015 23:08
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:the proprietary unix era had its moments somebody needs to re-read The X-Windows Disaster Steve Strassmann posted:Unlike a PC Jr, however, this workstation with $150,000 worth of 28 bits-per-pixel supercharged display hardware cannot display more than 16 colors at a time. this was in 1991 dollars on an HP 9000/835 with two Turbo SRX graphics systems, two displays, and… vendor X11.
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Mar 2, 2015 00:25
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ahmeni posted:do your lovely rear end free as in piss drivers do video hardware decoding or enough 2D/3D acceleration to get reasonable compositing performance?
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Mar 2, 2015 00:29
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pram posted:Its only Free if your time is Worthless
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Mar 2, 2015 00:33
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eschaton posted:somebody needs to re-read The X-Windows Disaster he's not complaining that x11 doesn't work, he's complaining that all the extra bells and whistles turned out to be totally unsupported. and that is a valid complaint. hp hosed him in the rear end the 835 was a rad fuckin system. overengineered to the nines. literally 1/4" steel for the backplanes. yes, multiple backplanes. all-modular. maybe that's how they ended up with cool features like hardway overlay support and literally 0 software that supported it
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Mar 2, 2015 00:35
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lol @ hp starbase it's 1991 and they're still imagining you will only draw 3d on a dedicated display, instead of inside of an x11 window. quote:This also means I cannot use the super cool 3D graphics hardware either, because in order to draw a cube, I would have to "steal" the frame buffer from X, which is surly and uncooperative about that sort of thing.
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Mar 2, 2015 00:39
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it all "just works" until you want to do something more complicated than emacs and a doc browser. truly, linux could learn from hp-ux circa 1991
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Mar 2, 2015 00:39
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:it all "just works" until you want to do something more complicated than emacs and a doc browser. truly, linux could learn from hp-ux circa 1991 that's been the X-Windows story all along though
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Mar 2, 2015 00:43
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Note that X11's architecture is still unable to effectively use HW overlays outside of hacks like Xv, which never really worked correctly anyway and doesn't using RGB overlays either.
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Mar 2, 2015 00:44
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eschaton posted:that's been the X-Windows story all along though well, no, it's not i was briefly waxing nostalgic for proprietary unix on workstations because it actually worked reliably. for many years lots of people found that xfree86 never just worked. under ideal circumstances, you would walk through a confusing ncurses wizard and then have it kinda sorta work after generating a config file. the unix hater's handbook chapter is a potent reminder that "just working" in the proprietary unix era was "well at least i can log in, and netscape, emacs, and the doc browser are running"
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Mar 2, 2015 00:45
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I work Xorg and X11. I know the ICCCM inside out. I agree with some of the points he made and disagree with plenty of others.
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Mar 2, 2015 00:48
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like lmao at him thinking Display PostScript was a good idea in the first place
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Mar 2, 2015 00:51
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the unix haters handbook was a work of comedy, and not even the authors really believe everything they say it is legitimately fuckin funny though
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Mar 2, 2015 00:58
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Suspicious Dish posted:like lmao at him thinking Display PostScript was a good idea in the first place true, any idiot can see that desktop graphics should be based on pdf instead
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Mar 2, 2015 01:04
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yeah, lemme just serialize my graphics operations to a PDF blob and pass that to the display server, said nobody ever
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Mar 2, 2015 01:09
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pseudorandom name posted:yeah, lemme just serialize my graphics operations to a PDF blob and pass that to the display server, said nobody ever good thing nobody does that
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Mar 2, 2015 01:14
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