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http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6780810 A homeless man was shot to death in LA today. Video looks like he's being tazed at the same time by multiple officers and then they step back after one yells he has a gun and they just blow him away while he's on the ground.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 05:26 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 13:45 |
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Looks like the narrative's already been changed to "reaching for the officer's gun": quote:While on the ground,suspect and #lapd officers struggled over one of officer's handgun at which point an officer involved shooting occurred Since this is supposed to be about worldwide police issues, let's bring up a couple from the UK. Last year was a record breaker for police complaints, either due to a change in what the regulatory commission could examine, or knock-on effects from the US scandals. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/02/police-complaints-rise-15-percent-in-a-year quote:The Metropolitan police, the UK’s largest force, had the most complaint cases made against it last year, with 7,115, IPCC figures show. It was followed by Greater Manchester police (1,536), West Midlands police (1,473), Devon and Cornwall police (1,364) and Kent police (1,200). Oxford joins the list of areas with a history of http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/01/gangs-abused-hundreds-of-oxfordshire-children-serious-case-review quote:Police and social services in Oxfordshire will be heavily criticised for not doing enough to stop years of violent abuse and enslavement of six young girls, aged 11-15, by a gang of men. Such was the nature of the abuse, suffered for more than eight years by the girls, it was likened to torture. All of the victims had a background in care. And lastly an old story, mostly to give a bit of context on the differences in policing over here, controversy over police in Inverness carrying guns on duty. Whole article is worth a read, has some good statistics and info on police firearms use. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28656324 quote:In addition, Dr Mick North, whose five-year-old daughter Sophie died at Dunblane Primary in 1996, hit out at the force for citing the tragedy in support of its policy. He said changes to the system would not have helped as "the incident was all over in three minutes".
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 10:46 |
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Shooting itself looks legit to me but I question how exactly he got his hands on someone's gun considering there was no reason for the cops to have a gun drawn during that fight. Countdown to someone posting about how brawling with the cops is a normal everyday occurrence and totally not relevant to the shooting, though.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 11:07 |
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semper wifi posted:Shooting itself looks legit to me Like, you agree that a shooting happened?
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 12:33 |
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I really don't know how you can reach or struggle for a gun with multiple grown men on your back and being tazed at the same time, that's just me though.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 13:27 |
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Ytlaya posted:After all court proceedings, right before deliberations began, I was chosen as one of the two alternates (14 are chosen for the jury, with 2 randomly being chosen as alternates after the court proceedings and right before deliberations). In a way I'm kind of relieved that I won't potentially be involved in ruined this guy's life, even if he is guilty. On the other hand, I'll be really upset if the defendant ends up being convicted of attempted first degree murder, when I definitely wouldn't have settled for anything above attempted second degree murder (there was basically nothing proving that the shooter wasn't intoxicated or acting in the passion of the moment or something). Thanks for posting this, I'm always fascinated to hear about people's experiences as juror in criminal (or civil) juries. What were your impressions of the defense attorney and the prosecutor? Was there anything they said in particular that you found particularly persuasive? How did you feel about the constant objections and the dramatic speechifying? What was the defense's argument--that the shooter was someone else?
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 14:04 |
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Demon Of The Fall posted:I really don't know how you can reach or struggle for a gun with multiple grown men on your back and being tazed at the same time, that's just me though. If the four grown men rely on pointing guns and yelling rather than armlocks, maybe. I remember getting out of being wrassled to the ground when I was about 12 by three or four of my friends, because they weren't very enthusiastic and got in each others' way.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 15:40 |
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Demon Of The Fall posted:I really don't know how you can reach or struggle for a gun with multiple grown men on your back and being tazed at the same time, that's just me though. Excited Delirium makes people do crazy things, man. Like be shot.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 16:14 |
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Everyone knows that homeless people synthesize oxygen into adrenalin. The hungrier they are, the stronger they are. Those cops should have called for backup, he could have gone SSJ2.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 19:08 |
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semper wifi posted:Shooting itself looks legit to me but I question how exactly he got his hands on someone's gun considering there was no reason for the cops to have a gun drawn during that fight. Countdown to someone posting about how brawling with the cops is a normal everyday occurrence and totally not relevant to the shooting, though. You already set off the countdown, you do not have a right to set a new one.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 20:17 |
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Going to take the bold stance that brawling with four cops shouldn't end with a shooting even if you're a UFC heavyweight high on PCP.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 20:20 |
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Going to go with the assumption that there was, in fact, no reaching for any gun.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 20:25 |
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A little older, but a good thing to send people who say "why don't people just file a complaint after the fact if they feel they were harassed by the police?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8v7lF5ttlQ Also last week's This American Life is a pretty pro-click, it's honest without being the sloppy blowjob of cops they usually get (though it shows them as beleaguered servants rather than power-tripping oppressors)
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 22:05 |
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prussian advisor posted:What were your impressions of the defense attorney and the prosecutor? Was there anything they said in particular that you found particularly persuasive? How did you feel about the constant objections and the dramatic speechifying? What was the defense's argument--that the shooter was someone else? I was kind of mixed about the "speech-ifying." I understand that both sides are trying to give their view of what happened and using tools of persuasion to try to convince the jury. While it felt a little bit like I was being sold a used car or something, it wasn't that bad. That being said, your average juror might be a lot more susceptible to believing a prosecutor/defense attorney just because they give a pretty speech, so it might be more harmful than I think. The objections weren't really "constant"; I was just surprised that they weren't super rare. Every single one was done by the defense and all were also pretty valid and upheld by the judge (the prosecutor did a lot of questioning where she'd go "So you're saying ______ said/did ______?" to witnesses, particularly the victim, basically suggesting stuff to them). The defense's argument was more just trying to create doubt about anything and everything. Like, the defense attorney would talk about how there's no evidence but the victim that the defendant was the shooter, but then also point out that, even if the defendant was the shooter, there was nothing showing it was premeditated. A lot of the stuff he said was kind of dumb and grasping at straws (like the defense claiming that he only fired the bullet that hit the defendant and the bullet that you could see hit a code bottle, when it's pretty obvious he fired 6 shots in the video), but it doesn't bother me as much when the defense does that; it's their job to give you some sliver of doubt. Ultimately, since the defense was pleading "Not Guilty", I guess that the argument was that the shooter was someone else entirely (with no specific person in mind). But I think the defense understood that there was a pretty high chance that the jury would think the shooter was the defendant, so he also spent some time addressing the issue of pre-meditation (which I found pretty persuasive; the prosecution was just sort of blindly claiming that the defendant acted with premeditation and didn't have any evidence).
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 23:13 |
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Ytlaya posted:At the end, I'm left just feeling sort of empty about the whole thing. Even if the defendant was the shooter (which he probably was), the victim had specifically said that he didn't want to ruin his life or anything, or even prosecute in the first place. So given that prison isn't really rehabilitative, what is him being convicted of this crime going to accomplish? I guess it might prevent him from committing some other crime, but I have a strong feeling from watching the video that the defendant (if he was the shooter) was drunk or under the influence of something when he shot the victim.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 23:29 |
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Murderion posted:Looks like the narrative's already been changed to "reaching for the officer's gun": By the way, I just love the new levels of passive voice achieved in "at which point an officer involved shooting occurred." Murderion posted:Oxford joins the list of areas with a history of I don't even know what to say about this. I'm afraid to even open my mouth because what's going to come out is going to be a bunch of dry-heaving and incoherent screaming. Maybe that's what they were counting on. That the scale of of the brutality inflicted and their staggering failure/complicity in it would just render people beyond the capacity for coherent criticism.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 23:49 |
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I got a really long monologue from a prosecutor who was fairly surprised that I did not want excessive harm to my stabber. Since I was on-duty and was attacked, the prosecution was fairly harsh and aggressive. I ended up being requested by the defence attorney and I gave a short speech about leniency and forgiving, especially for someone I view to be my patient and thus a person of special connection as a Firefighter. I sure as gently caress wasn't going to give that lovely prepared tirade on behalf of tve prosecution. "Hero blabla duty blabla honor blurhhh valor blurgghhh heroism bleegghhh life and death blooogghh every day" It was funny though to see the faces of many people. Many of them are so oriented to their draconian world views. I just fail to see how a deranged and mentally ill man drugged out of his mind who stabs a firefighter benefits from being thrown into jail for something so severe as attempted murder. loving retarded.
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# ? Mar 2, 2015 23:59 |
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Vahakyla posted:I got a really long monologue from a prosecutor who was fairly surprised that I did not want excessive harm to my stabber. Since I was on-duty and was attacked, the prosecution was fairly harsh and aggressive. I ended up being requested by the defence attorney and I gave a short speech about leniency and forgiving, especially for someone I view to be my patient and thus a person of special connection as a Firefighter. Leniency? Um, you left him alive, didn't you?
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# ? Mar 3, 2015 00:11 |
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Zeitgueist posted:Leniency? Um, you left him alive, didn't you? He said he was a firefighter, aka the people who actually help you in an emergency.
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# ? Mar 3, 2015 00:48 |
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Everblight posted:He said he was a firefighter, aka the people who actually help you in an emergency. Yes, my point was that guy would have had 30 bullets in him if he hadn't attacked a firefighter. I also think Vahakyla has a pretty good stance on that guy, I agree prison is probably not going to help him in any way. vvvv Well cool beans, One Of The Good Ones Zeitgueist fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Mar 3, 2015 |
# ? Mar 3, 2015 00:50 |
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We had a cop with us. Cop was an old guy and helped to restrain him, and calmed the ill guy down with soft speech when other firefighters were attending to him since also had self-inflicted knife wounds in his body. The stabber who was laying next to me was writhing in pain groaned and I asked him if it hurt really bad and told me "you tell me". He also said he's sorry so I told him "we cool". The scene was pretty comical to be honest.
Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Mar 3, 2015 |
# ? Mar 3, 2015 01:00 |
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I'm interested in why you feel this way. Do you feel like being intoxicated diminishes his responsibility for his actions? Should society at large (via the State) not seek punishment if the victim is uninterested in cooperating with police? Is there something to be said for removing the notably shooty members of our society, if just temporarily, to someplace where they can't get drunk and pop off a few rounds in a convenience store? The golden example of why the state should press forward even if the victim doesn't want to is domestic abuse.
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# ? Mar 3, 2015 01:29 |
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Cichlid the Loach posted:
These threads have actually done a rare thing, and changed my opinion drastically. As much as I'm a fan of the right to keep and bear arms, I no longer think American police officers should be allowed to routinely go armed. They are clearly, as a profession, incapable of responsibly exercising the necessary self-control required to go about bearing a deadly weapon. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Mar 3, 2015 |
# ? Mar 3, 2015 08:42 |
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Liquid Communism posted:These threads have actually done a rare thing, and changed my opinion drastically. As much as I'm a fan of the right to keep and bear arms, I no longer think American police officers should be allowed to routinely go armed. They are clearly, as a profession, incapable of responsibly exercising the necessary self-control required to go about bearing a deadly weapon. I think the bigger issue is that they know there just won't be any repercussions no matter how many people they murder. Start punishing the ones that just outright murder people and suddenly you'll see a lot less of it happening. Though you're right, beat cops just walking the streets really don't need to be heavily armed. The police most certainly don't need to be buying literal goddamned tanks for regular use either. Sorry but your average, bog standard police department doesn't need an APC. That's for the special units that get called in in the rare event that poo poo actually does get that bad. Which for your average cop is, you know, not every day.
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# ? Mar 3, 2015 09:53 |
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Cichlid the Loach posted:I don't even know what to say about this. I'm afraid to even open my mouth because what's going to come out is going to be a bunch of dry-heaving and incoherent screaming. Maybe that's what they were counting on. That the scale of of the brutality inflicted and their staggering failure/complicity in it would just render people beyond the capacity for coherent criticism. It's what a massive institutional and cultural failure looks like. It's understandable that the officers and social workers involved had a hard time believing the stories of the girls - after, it's hard for us to believe it. If you're in a culture that doubts victims of rape, and writes off young people in care as lost causes, insane sounding stories are going to get lost in the white noise of crazy poo poo you have to deal with every day. Targeted by muslim rape gangs? I'll get right on that after I find that baby that was stolen by gypsies. What makes it unforgivable is the failure to write up reports or collate data on a basic level, especially in the digital age when it's piss easy to do. If you have multiple, unconnected youths coming forward with stories that match up, there's a pattern that can't be ignored. Connected to the current discussion, here's an old bbc article on why the British police don't go armed, along with a silly quote from an American officer. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398 posted:What does a British police officer do if someone comes out with a knife? Is he supposed to get out his knife and fight him?
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# ? Mar 3, 2015 11:07 |
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Considering Britain has taken the common-sense step of banning the carry of any knife longer than 3" or a knife with a locking blade of any length without a court-approved "good reason", I'd say they have that covered too.
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# ? Mar 3, 2015 11:59 |
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lmao if american cops are bitch made enough that you can't handle a guy with a knife with nothing but a club and gumption.
Forums Terrorist fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Mar 3, 2015 |
# ? Mar 3, 2015 14:15 |
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Forums Terrorist posted:lmao if american cops are bitch made enough that you can't handle a guy with a knife with nothing but a club and gumption. I like the implication that the cop should pull a gun if the other guy pulls a knife. The American police attitude to me seems to be to escalate force until either the suspect capitulates entirely or is completely incapacitated. Which is the opposite of what should be done; no-one in a rational frame of mind thinks that attacking a cop would do them any good, therefore the first step is to try to put them back into a rational frame of mind. Back to the cavalcade of horrors that is Oxford. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/03/professionals-blamed-oxfordshire-girls-for-their-sexual-abuse-report-finds I advise those of a nervous disposition not to read further. Don't say I didn't warn you posted:Police and social workers in Oxfordshire perceived that girls as young as 11 had consented to sex with men, an independent report into the failure to stop their exploitation has said. Not to worry, though. We can put it all behind us and there is no reason for heads to roll among dedicated public servants who did what they thought was best at the time. quote:Despite damning findings in the 114-page report, no one has been disciplined or sacked over the child protection failures. None whatsoever Next week's nightmare schedule posted:
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# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:43 |
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Forums Terrorist posted:lmao if american cops are bitch made enough that you can't handle a guy with a knife with nothing but a club and gumption. American cops can't even handle people sitting down without escalating to pepper spray. "A club and gumption" is the response for "made eye contact during a traffic stop". A knife is generally 2 guys unloading a magazine.
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# ? Mar 3, 2015 18:27 |
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This dude had a hissy fit about being equal with the common man. http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-31709454 quote:"A Finnish man has been handed a whopping 54,000-euro [60,357$] fine for speeding, it's reported. Best part, on the Finnish news site, was the top comment. Loosely translated: A great philosopher posted:"Suck that social democracy you whiny fatty" Every fine assigned for an individual is assigned in values of "days". They are called "day fines" and roughly meant "days spent in jail" 100 years ago and now they may "days of lost salary". Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Mar 3, 2015 |
# ? Mar 3, 2015 23:31 |
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# ? Mar 4, 2015 00:59 |
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What are the laws surrounding the amount of time you can be held in jail?
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# ? Mar 4, 2015 01:42 |
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Nonsense posted:What are the laws surrounding the amount of time you can be held in jail? Do you mean in terms of how long a jail term you can receive as a sentence, or how long you can be held in jail without bond pending trial? The former is effectively limited only by the length of your life, although jails are holding facilities for short sentences and for people awaiting trial, with sentences longer than a year typically being served in state prisons. For the latter, it depends how quickly the defendant is willing to go to trial. Defendants being held without bond can demand a speedy trial, the federal right to a speedy trial is functionally meaningless and vague but every state usually sets comparatively strict specific limits. For example, in Florida it's 90 days from arrest for a misdemeanor, 175 days for a felony. However, it's very common for defendants to waive their speedy trial rights to get more time to prepare. It's common for accused murderers to sit in jail for years (at their own attorney's request) as their defense is prepared.
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# ? Mar 4, 2015 02:12 |
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Nonsense posted:What are the laws surrounding the amount of time you can be held in jail? I was arrested Last sunday, and it all depends on the nature of the charges you have against you when you are brought in, you'll usually have first appearance at 9am the next morning, the judge decides your bond and whether or not to ROR you. Some cases get an ROR (Released on Recognizance), others have a bond amount. If I hadn't been ROR'd I would've been in jail until my court date because my Bond was 25,000.00. Edit: It depends entirely on the nature of the charge, and how many offenses you've committed prior to being arrested. Modulo16 fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Mar 4, 2015 |
# ? Mar 4, 2015 02:12 |
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If anything, the percentage of arrests and offenders seems low. Where i'm from, black people bat at least double their population percentage in crime representation.
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# ? Mar 4, 2015 02:26 |
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on the left posted:If anything, the percentage of arrests and offenders seems low. Where i'm from, black people bat at least double their population percentage in crime representation. Well they might but they're already running against the 100% cap. It's hard out here for a racist PD.
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# ? Mar 4, 2015 02:28 |
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on the left posted:If anything, the percentage of arrests and offenders seems low. Where i'm from, black people bat at least double their population percentage in crime representation. Then good news for you! Because when 33% of your population is non-black, having only 7% of arrests being non-black means that the police force is targeting blacks 300% harder, and not just double.
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# ? Mar 4, 2015 02:30 |
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Devor posted:Then good news for you! Because when 33% of your population is non-black, having only 7% of arrests being non-black means that the police force is targeting blacks 300% harder, and not just double. The black population is almost certainly a lot poorer than the white population, and committing crimes at a much higher rate. Also, when it comes to traffic violations, police target poorly maintained cars, because they are easy targets for tickets and outstanding warrants. These poorly maintained cars are going to be disproportionately owned by the poor black residents.
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# ? Mar 4, 2015 02:34 |
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I would be damned willing to put money on the numbers being very close to comparable if they eliminated the confounding variable of wealth disparity by only looking at low income arrests and comparing race.
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# ? Mar 4, 2015 04:22 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 13:45 |
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Nonsense posted:What are the laws surrounding the amount of time you can be held in jail? You mean before trial? In New York it's something like 6 months, but delays and adjournments can "stop the clock," so you end up with cases like Kalief Browder, who was wrongfully arrested at age 16 for stealing a backpack, and subsequently spent three years at Rikers Island without trial (huge chunks of it in solitary confinement). Finally the charges were dropped when the alleged victim left the country and was unable to be contacted. Kalief had just turned 20. He believes the prosecution deliberately kept setting up delays in order to push him into a plea bargain. (I'm inclined to believe it.)
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# ? Mar 4, 2015 04:24 |