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Gravel Gravy posted:And despite this rather than accepting Hitler had attacked he froze and holed up in his dasha for a few days. And whenever his intelligence agents gave him information that conflicted with his own thoughts they faced some pretty nasty consequences. This may be true at the start of the war, but if you look at how well Stalin and Rokossosky get along towards the end of the war (enabled Operation Bagration) its clear Stalin was at least competent as a generalissimo who increasingly learned to trust his career generals.
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Mar 2, 2015 17:47
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Gravel Gravy posted:It's like light refraction where light bends after hitting water, except when words hit him his hate bends the meaning. And then John was a foreigner.
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Mar 2, 2015 17:47
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Guavanaut posted:Most of the people who post things like this like to think of themselves as rugged individualists, so hit 'em where it hurts: Nice. I see "I need to whip my kids every now and then to keep 'em in line" still show up once in a blue moon. Saving it for those moments. Corporal punishment is oddly a place where people try to find a grey area. I remember discussing this with coworkers when Adrian Peterson lost his appeal (for those who don't follow football - he got suspended indefinitely when they found out he beat his 4-year old with a switch so bad his scrotum bled). They were like "yeah, what he did was bad, but I think a little spanking won't ruin them" and "my daughter likes time-out. I worry it sends the wrong message." Granted, I'm not a parent, so I haven't magically found out I know what's best for my kid, but what's ingrained in America with regards to hitting kids is weird.
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Mar 2, 2015 19:27
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Cognac McCarthy posted:This isn't really right. By most accounts Stalin was really surprised by Operation Barbarossa, and didn't consider that Hitler was actually going to betray their non-aggression pact, and certainly not when he did. Further, to call Stalin "the bastard Europe needed to beat Nazi Germany" is a little off, since the USSR would've been in a much better position to do so if not for Stalin's own decimation of military and intelligence leadership in the decade before the war. If not for that Hitler might have been defeated much, much more quickly for all we know. Both Stalin and Hitler were expecting the other to betray them. Except Stalin thought Hitler would wait to at least 42 before launching an invasion. And it's a little of in that you are right another leader of the USSR might have handled it better, but if we are comparing Stalin's USSR to the Russian Empire, the USSR had better leadership and would/did far better than the government of the Russian empire did. Gravel Gravy posted:And despite this rather than accepting Hitler had attacked he froze and holed up in his dasha for a few days. And whenever his intelligence agents gave him information that conflicted with his own thoughts they faced some pretty nasty consequences. If he hadn't moved many of Russia's industrial base past the Ural's the USSR would have been out of the war in 42. Not to mention his decision to make a fight for Stalingrad instead of pulling out. Stalin was egotistical however, and the fact he did fail to predict when Germany would invaded pissed him off rather hard.
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Mar 2, 2015 19:34
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seiferguy posted:Nice. I see "I need to whip my kids every now and then to keep 'em in line" still show up once in a blue moon. Saving it for those moments. Corporal punishment is oddly a place where people try to find a grey area. I remember discussing this with coworkers when Adrian Peterson lost his appeal (for those who don't follow football - he got suspended indefinitely when they found out he beat his 4-year old with a switch so bad his scrotum bled). They were like "yeah, what he did was bad, but I think a little spanking won't ruin them" and "my daughter likes time-out. I worry it sends the wrong message." there are two components to it first people like to rationalize the abuse they suffered by their own parents. "i got smacked around and i turned out ok" is just another way for a person to convince themselves that they turned out ok when they most likely did not second people get real oppositional when it comes to the government and/or society telling them that they're a bad parent. most if not all parents are bad at it, it is in human nature to fail, acceptance that you will fail is important to having a healthy psyche but it can be difficult
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Mar 2, 2015 19:38
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Bloodnose posted:Thus is not true, by the way. I don't know much about the intellectual history of communism but the Chinese Communist Party itself has publicly disagreed with Mao Zedong on many points since 1976. Yeah, Maoism is...not really a thing in China anymore, they've largely moved on to 'socialism with Chinese characteristics', which basically means 'barely-regulated free market capitalism with a strong centralized authoritarian state to defend the capitalist class and a bunch of red flags flying everywhere.'
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Mar 2, 2015 20:03
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Jurgan posted:Yeah, he was making some good points until that line. "Tumblr" as an insult is almost as meaningless as "SJW." Whatever. I was involved with radical left-wing politics since way before tumblr was around, and knew people who acted exactly in this purist, hair-splitting, personal is political, gather up all your lack of privilege to win an argument manner. Maybe it's anachronistic and I should say tumblr left-wingers are left-wingy as gently caress. Sorry to have stepped on one of your trigger words.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:04
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Mister Bates posted:Yeah, Maoism is...not really a thing in China anymore, they've largely moved on to 'socialism with Chinese characteristics', which basically means 'barely-regulated free market capitalism with a strong centralized authoritarian state to defend the capitalist class and a bunch of red flags flying everywhere.' Also state capitalism with massive state-owned enterprises dominating several key industries.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:32
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Whatever. I was involved with radical left-wing politics since way before tumblr was around, and knew people who acted exactly in this purist, hair-splitting, personal is political, gather up all your lack of privilege to win an argument manner. Maybe it's anachronistic and I should say tumblr left-wingers are left-wingy as gently caress. Sorry to have stepped on one of your trigger words. Calling a communist or socialist a tumblr nerd is about as fair as calling a Libertarian an objectivist. It's just lazy/dumb.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:35
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Venom Snake posted:Calling a communist or socialist a tumblr nerd is about as fair as calling a Libertarian an objectivist. It's just lazy/dumb. This is a really exciting derail. Please do tell me what is or isn't lazy of someone who's actually been involved in radical leftism and still has friends from that period in their life, and sees the kind of bullshit, for which "tumblr activism" is a very good shorthand, happening all the damned time. Go ahead, let's waste a few more posts on that.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:45
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Absurd Alhazred posted:This is a really exciting derail. Please do tell me what is or isn't lazy of someone who's actually been involved in radical leftism and still has friends from that period in their life, and sees the kind of bullshit, for which "tumblr activism" is a very good shorthand, happening all the damned time. Go ahead, let's waste a few more posts on that. This was already a dumb derail, I dunno if you get to call it off when somebody points out you are being stupid on something.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:48
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Guavanaut posted:Most of the people who post things like this like to think of themselves as rugged individualists, so hit 'em where it hurts: Reminds me of when one of my students in China sang some song about obedience and how it was like the best thing ever for his English competition, and I was aghast; so I told them all about the My Lai massacre. VideoTapir fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 20:51
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Zeitgueist posted:This was already a dumb derail, I dunno if you get to call it off when somebody points out you are being stupid on something. I'm not being stupid, you lot are being pathetically dismissive because you've found your shibboleth, "tumblr". It's like with completely disowning anything to do with Stalin while saying you're a communist or socialist, it's basically deflection and a good way to avoid having to deal with criticism. My original point, by the way, was to compare bullshit splitting and self-righteousness in the Communist movement to "tumblr", I didn't call anyone here "tumblr", but I guess I used a shibboleth so now I'm beyond the pale.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:58
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seiferguy posted:Nice. I see "I need to whip my kids every now and then to keep 'em in line" still show up once in a blue moon. Saving it for those moments. Corporal punishment is oddly a place where people try to find a grey area. I remember discussing this with coworkers when Adrian Peterson lost his appeal (for those who don't follow football - he got suspended indefinitely when they found out he beat his 4-year old with a switch so bad his scrotum bled). They were like "yeah, what he did was bad, but I think a little spanking won't ruin them" and "my daughter likes time-out. I worry it sends the wrong message." I grew up getting spanked [And only spanked!] and thought that was normal so I still have trouble coming to terms with how hitting your kids isn't cool.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:00
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Absurd Alhazred posted:This is a really exciting derail. Please do tell me what is or isn't lazy of someone who's actually been involved in radical leftism and still has friends from that period in their life, and sees the kind of bullshit, for which "tumblr activism" is a very good shorthand, happening all the damned time. Go ahead, let's waste a few more posts on that. How is calling all communists and socialists tumblr activists not stupid and lazy? Do you call every nationalist you meet a Nazi? Do you call every libertarian an anarchist? I'm a Socialist, but I don't own a tumblr, I don't have head mates, and I don't run around talking about privilege.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:00
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Venom Snake posted:How is calling all communists and socialists tumblr activists not stupid and lazy? I didn't actually do that. HTH
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Mar 2, 2015 21:01
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Venom Snake posted:How is calling all communists and socialists tumblr activists not stupid and lazy? No one did that.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:03
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I'm not being stupid, you lot are being pathetically dismissive because you've found your shibboleth, "tumblr". It's like with completely disowning anything to do with Stalin while saying you're a communist or socialist, it's basically deflection and a good way to avoid having to deal with criticism. You said "tumblr" in exactly the way you meant it, using it as a pejorative to dismiss folks who don't agree with your opinion on things. Talking about the aspects of Stalin and what parts of his being bad are due to totalitarianism and which to communism are certainly not bullshit splitting and purity hunts, it's a discussion of history. It's probably a derail to this thread but people are totally correct on calling you out for stupid poo poo.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:03
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Venom Snake posted:Do you call every libertarian an anarchist? This is unironically pretty close to correct hth.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:06
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Zeitgueist posted:You said "tumblr" in exactly the way you meant it, using it as a pejorative to dismiss folks who don't agree with your opinion on things. Here is the context in which I said tumblr: Absurd Alhazred posted:And honestly, the only reason people talk about "Maoism" or "Stalinism" or "Leninism" or "Trotskyism" is because of this need to take personal grievances and disagreements and find an intellectual or ideological reason for them. If you read Trotsky's "Their Morals and Ours", you will find this ridiculous argument that when Lenin and him were in charge, all of the oppressive actions they did were good, because by definition they were in service of the proletariat. However, when Stalin did the same thing it was a terrible slander to note this fact, because it would be obvious to any fool that Stalin by definition was not promoting the will of the proletariat. In the sense of having all these bullshit personal grievances masquerade as ideology it always has been as tumblr as gently caress. Or, to be less anachronistic, tumblr leftist activism's inability to have an honest conversation or argument without finding ideological reasons behind everything has a long pedigree in left-wing circles. I stand by my statements. Read "Their Morals and Ours" and see for yourself.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:06
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Here is the context in which I said tumblr: If you think that is endemic to only leftism you're carrying some baggage.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:08
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StealthArcher posted:This is unironically pretty close to correct hth.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:09
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Zeitgueist posted:If you think that is endemic to only leftism you're carrying some baggage. Nice "whataboutism" there. You would do very well in the 1930's CPB, Comrade.  I don't care if it's only endemic to leftism. The subject of discussion was communism and leftism. I have shared my knowledge and perspective about it, seeing as I've been studying and living these things for a while. Do you have anything to contribute? Have you read "Their Morals and Ours"? What did you think about it?
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Mar 2, 2015 21:14
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Nice "whataboutism" there. You would do very well in the 1930's CPB, Comrade. I've already contributed to this thread, sorry I didn't read your book 
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Mar 2, 2015 21:19
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This seems like an appropriate place to post that tumblr screen cap of the person that decided that after the world revolution they'd be an "anime appreciator" because everyone would except not being able to work. The left's problems right back through history has been its continual ability to eat itself and engage in partisan bickering rather than actually trying to work to change things, which is historically what the right has managed to do.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:29
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I didn't actually do that. HTH Afraid of Audio posted:No one did that. quote:Communism has always been tumblr as gently caress. StealthArcher posted:This is unironically pretty close to correct hth. It doesn't matter if modern libertarians are more close to anarchists than liberal capitalists, it's still dumb to refer to them as anarchists.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:29
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Venom Snake posted:It doesn't matter if modern libertarians are more close to anarchists than liberal capitalists, it's still dumb to refer to them as anarchists. I literally reposted the relevant context for Zeitgueist just a few posts up. How about you actually read what I actually wrote instead of pulling things out of context to get all offended?
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Mar 2, 2015 21:33
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Venom Snake posted:It doesn't matter if modern libertarians are more close to anarchists than liberal capitalists, it's still dumb to refer to them as anarchists. They are not now, because it was stolen by smug dicks in bowties in the 60s.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:35
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Blah blah derail: Why does he have the Superman S on his collar?
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Mar 2, 2015 21:43
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Duke Igthorn posted:Blah blah derail: That changes from a red star to a triskelion then to the S.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:46
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Venom Snake posted:It doesn't matter if modern libertarians are more close to anarchists than liberal capitalists, it's still dumb to refer to them as anarchists. Modern libertarians are about as far from anarchists as you can possibly get. The modern libertarian movement isn't anti-capitalist, for one thing. They also tend to hold private property rights as sacrosanct, while most strains of anarchist thought traditionally considered private property to be an authoritarian social construct that could only be preserved through the unjust application of force and would necessarily be abolished with the coming of the stateless society blah-blah-blah (Proudhon, one of the first political figures to call himself an anarchist, literally said 'Property is theft'). Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 21:53
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They're anarchists in the popular understanding of the term, not in the academic. Like the misuse of "theory."
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Mar 2, 2015 21:54
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What passes for libertarianism now used to be called 'propertarianism'. They dropped the name for some reason. e: Social dominance theory is only a theory! 
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Mar 2, 2015 21:55
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 Confused Picard is the new Wonka.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:56
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A pro-choice meme.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:57
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Duke Igthorn posted:
VideoTapir posted:That changes from a red star to a triskelion then to the S. FWIW, the name of the painting is 'Altered Egos'. I can't find anything written about it from Jeff Huntington's perspective, but I could imagine it being about ideologies being fairly inseparable. Or it could be just that no matter where Kal-el landed, he would have become an instrument of whatever ideology's will. 
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Mar 2, 2015 21:57
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For added fun, the term 'libertarian' was originally coined by a communist, in a communist newspaper, to refer not to their ideological enemies, but to themselves. It's kind of amusing how thoroughly divorced the term has become from its original meaning.borkencode posted:
'Anyone convicted of any crime ever is subhuman.' Wouldn't following this logic lead to the US committing the most significant act of deliberate genocide in human history? We've got a whole lot of prisoners.
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Mar 2, 2015 22:00
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I literally reposted the relevant context for Zeitgueist just a few posts up. How about you actually read what I actually wrote instead of pulling things out of context to get all offended? I'm not offended? It's just that your a good poster and it sucks to see you run down the path of "leftism white washes bad people" when the same could be said of literally every ideology ever.
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Mar 2, 2015 22:03
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It's the third anniversary of the death of the Martyr Andrew Breitbart, pbuh. I can tell because of all of the "I've been thinking alot about Andrew Breitbart" articles that pop up this time of the year. Cult of Personality at its finest. I may hit up Reddit and burn $50 bucks and have Reagan and Breitbart copulate in a manner that brings to mind North Korea's Dear and Great Leaders.
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Mar 2, 2015 22:06
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This may be one of the worst "articles" I have seen yet posted by this lady on my facebook. She has been slowly creeping towards full-blown Muslim bigotry and frequently posts those "OMG MOSQUES/TRAINING CAMPS IN MY AMERICA" articles but holy poo poo. She is also genuinely terrified of anyone wearing Muslim garb. Conservative Tribue of course posted:Muslim “Welfare Queen” Refuses to Remove Headscarf in Court… Judge Puts Her in Her Place I do really enjoy watching her and her legitimately anarchist friend duke it out though.   And sometimes I touch the poop too when it's deserved. 
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Mar 2, 2015 22:22
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