Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

quote:

Hockey orders sale of $39m Point Piper mansion Villa de Mare for FIRB breach

China�s 15th richest man has 90 days to sell one of Sydney�s finest homes, at whatever cost, or face the prospect of prosecution.

The $39 million Point Piper mansion Villa de Mare was sold last year in contravention of existing laws that prohibit foreigners buying property without government approval, Treasurer Joe Hockey said.

The grand home, once owned by recruiter Julia Ross, was bought by Golden Fast Foods, a holding company ultimately owned by Evergrande Real Estate Group under Xu Jiayin, who is known as and for having strong connections to the Chinese Communist Party and former party premier Wen Jiaobao.

All foreigners require prior approval to purchase residential real estate, and only temporary residents are permitted to acquire existing properties. The purchase of an established dwelling is conditional on a foreigner selling the property when they leave Australia.

FIRB staff spent months investigating if the purchase complied with the law.

�The rules are straightforward,� said Brian Wilson, the Foreign Investment Review Board chairman. �It�s an existing property you have to be either a resident, or a citizen or a temporary resident. You can�t be a foreign investor.�

Mr Wilson said the property�s owner, who he declined to name, was �on a number of occasions� given the opportunity to prove to FIRB that he had complied with the law.

�As with any government decision such as this you give the person natural justice. These things aren�t done as a knee-jerk reaction.�

SALE IN 90 DAYS DIFFICULT
A rushed sale of the sprawling harbourfront mansion might be difficult. Recruitment magnate Julia Ross sold the home on 1508 square metres in October 2014 after a wait on the market of more than two years.

The sale set a new non-waterfront record in early October for the 1508 square metre home with a pool and Mediterranean influences.

Ms Ross, the now London-based entrepreneur, almost doubled the $21.5 million she paid a decade ago for the sprawling home, when it set the previous non-waterfront record.

In the first forced divestment of a property since 2007, the owners have 90 days to sell it or face referral to the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions.

A parliamentary inquiry recently found there had not been a single prosecution of a foreign investor since 2006 and no divestment orders since 2007.

Mr Hockey said the owners would have to accept the best price offered within the timeframe. He promised new fees and penalties last week to enforce the existing law but these are not yet enacted and forced divestment of the mansion has been ordered under existing law.

�Golden Fast Foods is a foreign-owned company which failed to notify FIRB of its intended purchase,� Mr Hockey told Parliament Tuesday.

DEVELOPER WORTH $7.6B
Xu Jiayin is worth of $7.6 billion, according to the Hurun Report. He is the founder and chief executive of Evergrande Real Estate Group, one of China�s largest apartment developers.

He is known for his strong connections to the Communist Party, including the brother of former Premier Wen Jiabao.

�It was bought by a company, registered in Australia, which warranted it did not need FIRB approval,� said Christies agents Ken Jacobs, who sold the house in conjunction with the principal of LJ Hooker Double Bay Bill Malouf.

Golden Fast Foods, which includes Evergrande�s executive director Huang Xiangui and Sydney-based accountant Stanley Brogan as directors, now has 90 days to sell the home otherwise they will face prosecution and possible jail terms.

State property records list the buyer of Villa de Mare as Golden Fast Foods Pty Ltd, a Chatswood-based company headed by Stanley Brogan and China-based directors Han Xioaran and Huang Xiangui. Mr Huang is Evergrande�s executive director.

Media reports at the time of the sale in early October 2014 said Mr Xu was in Australia and scouting for hotel investment opportunities in addition to a harbour-front home.

�DISTORTING THE MARKET�
Local real estate agents have applauded the decision.

�I think its fantastic,� Melbourne-based buyers agent David Morrell said. �These types of purchases are pushing prices up and its distorting the market.�

Mr Morrell points to two Melbourne sales on the weekend just past, in which two homes in Hawthorn sold for more than $1 million above reserve and $800,000 above reserve, respectively.

�Sometimes it feels like you�re bidding with your hands tied behind your back because you know you�re not bidding in the same dollar terms as the [foreign] competition,� he said, adding that the recent drop in the AUD had spurred on a new wave of confidence among foreign purchasers.

But Mr Morrell is sanguine about the impact that one forced divestment will have.

�So many sales have already gone through under the radar,� he said.

Another Sydney-based agent talking on the condition of anonymity argued that the move would have a large impact on top-end buyers who hire the best accountants and lawyers to ensure their purchases are legal and compliant with the law.

�This will create some anxiety,� they said.

The Villa de Mare sale came at the same time a swag of well-heeled Chinese businessmen were buying up other trophy homes in the harbour facing strip.

Zeng Wei, the son of China�s former vice-president Zeng Qinghong, owns 73 Wolseley Road, where he and wife Jiang Mei are in the process of building a modern home by architect Gergely and Pinter.

The princeling spent $32.4 million six years ago to secure the home known as Craig-y-Mor, which businessmen including Chris Corrigan, Rene Rivkin and Ben Tilley formerly owned. Demolition works began in May. The family is expected to move back into the new home by 2015.

Other Chinese purchasers in the area include chairman of global textiles group Shandong Ruyi, Qiu Yafu, who paid around $34 million in May 2013 for a home known as the �Bang and Olufsen� house on Wolseley Crescent.

Mr Qui is the major shareholder in Queensland�s Cubbie Station.

FIRB RULES CLEAR
Asked if FIRB would announce more cases where the law had been breached, Mr Wilson said it was �entirely possible�.

He said the 90-day period set down for the divestment of the property was compliant with the law.

Asked if the action could lead to any legal action from the purchaser�s layers and accountants, Mr Wilson said: �Anyone is always entitled to try and get a law case up. I think the law on foreign investors owning established residential properties is pretty clear and it�s been pretty clear for decades.�

�Every now and then one [case] comes along that�s just plain contrary to the law,� he said. �I wouldn�t like to say anyone went out to deliberately flout out the law. Whatever the motivations were, the law was not complied with.�

�Every case that has come to FIRB�s attention is investigated,� Mr Wilson said.

�FIRB does have limited resources and to actually chase down a property in terms of its ultimate owners is quite resource intense. It takes a lot of work and more often than not � in the vast majority of cases � we�ve determined the properties have been properly acquired.�

http://www.afr.com/p/national/hockey_orders_sale_breach_point_4vfndyC0uTrYvcShhGyu8M

# ? Mar 3, 2015 08:51

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# ? May 24, 2024 13:08

OhYeah: Jan 20, 2007; 1. Currently the most prevalent form of decision-making in the western world

2. While you are correct in saying that the society owns

3. You have not for a second demonstrated here why

4. I love the way that you equate "state" with "bureaucracy". Is that how you really feel about the state

Why would you want to live in a house like this? Seriously, are you Louis the XIVth? It's simply too big, too ostentatious, too expensive to maintain and you look like an idiot to 99.9% of the people on the planet.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 11:41

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

No one actually needs a mansion. It is literally what rich people buy when they've exhausted all other alternatives. Someone on these forums once said that owning a boat is like owning a hole in the water that you have to throw money into. A mansion is not a hole, it's a goddamn landfill.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 11:47

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

OhYeah posted:

Why would you want to live in a house like this? Seriously, are you Louis the XIVth? It's simply too big, too ostentatious, too expensive to maintain and you look like an idiot to 99.9% of the people on the planet.

Th article said the guy is worth nearly $8bn. Pretty sure the expense is not a problem. I also suspect the proportion of people that think that place looks like a tonne of fun to live is much, much higher than 0.01%.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 12:42

Professor Shark: May 22, 2012

Toronto Real Estate Board demands brokers halt online sales stats

What is going on here for those who don't know a lot about the Game of Thrones that Realtors play?

# ? Mar 3, 2015 14:54

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Kalenn Istarion posted:

I also suspect the proportion of people that think that place looks like a tonne of fun to live is much, much higher than 0.01%.

Those people are idiots.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 14:56

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

Xoidanor posted:

No one actually needs a mansion. It is literally what rich people buy when they've exhausted all other alternatives. Someone on these forums once said that owning a boat is like owning a hole in the water that you have to throw money into. A mansion is not a hole, it's a goddamn landfill.

I'd just do like the whats-his-name media mogul and buy a bajillion acres of land instead.

Then deed it to a conservation trust in my will :twisted:

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:30

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

ocrumsprug posted:

How many hours a day do you think there is a traffic jam in front of that place? Five, Six?

I don't know gently caress all about Vancouver geography or traffic because I've never lived there and have no interest in ever doing so, but being in a place with horrible traffic is actually pretty great if you don't ever need to be in that traffic. Idling/jammed traffic is usually more quiet than fast-moving traffic, and it's fun to watch all the morons commuting to their far-flung suburbs while you walk wherever you need/want to go. It's one of my most favourite forms of schadenfreude.

EDIT: On the subject of mansions, it's pretty much guaranteed actual job creation, because a place as large as that needs its own staff. As long as that place stands, there's probably multiple full-time jobs available just maintaining it that may not have been available if the rich moron in question had chosen to buy something lavish, but reasonably sane instead.

PT6A fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Mar 3, 2015

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:42

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Professor Shark posted:

Toronto Real Estate Board demands brokers halt online sales stats

What is going on here for those who don't know a lot about the Game of Thrones that Realtors play?

They want to control the information in a very anti-competitive way. I hope the upcoming court case breaks up the MLS monopoly.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:11

David Corbett: Feb 6, 2008; Courage, my friends; 'tis not too late to build a better world.

OhYeah posted:

Why would you want to live in a house like this? Seriously, are you Louis the XIVth? It's simply too big, too ostentatious, too expensive to maintain and you look like an idiot to 99.9% of the people on the planet.

Yeah, Versailles is way nicer than that nouveau-riche shitheap. It reminds me of seeing a recent Calgary newspaper article about a "French chateau" for sale in Calgary for $20m. Utter nonsense. If I had that kind of money, I'd buy a real French chateau down in Provence or something and grow grapes for fun, not spend all winter wishing it was summer again.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:25

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

Jumpingmanjim posted:

http://www.afr.com/p/national/hockey_orders_sale_breach_point_4vfndyC0uTrYvcShhGyu8M

You have some guy in government named Mr. Hockey?

How do we not have this?

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:43

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

David Corbett posted:

Yeah, Versailles is way nicer than that nouveau-riche shitheap. It reminds me of seeing a recent Calgary newspaper article about a "French chateau" for sale in Calgary for $20m. Utter nonsense. If I had that kind of money, I'd buy a real French chateau down in Provence or something and grow grapes for fun, not spend all winter wishing it was summer again.

No poo poo. If you're loaded enough to be able to afford business-class tickets whenever you want/need (which you are if you're spending $20m on a house), why on Earth would your "nicest" residence be in Calgary? I'd take Spain over France, personally, but I think both would be far preferable to here.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:50

Saltin: Aug 20, 2003; Don't touch

Cultural Imperial posted:

Anecdotally, what's the worst income to house price ratio you guys have heard of for anyone buying a real estate?

I don't know the particulars, but the worst thing I've seen in this relatively upscale Toronto neighborhood is a young couple moving into a $1.5m detached Victorian that was "cheap" because it was a little too close to the Danforth. I have no idea what they make, but when they moved in it was a U-haul trailer and they had a futon and a few pieces of Ikea furniture. It's like a 2000sq foot house, minimum.

In unrelated news the Toronto Real Estate Board has told its members to stop publishing sales data on the internet, or risk losing their access to the data. These fuckers are due for a serious bitch-slap from the government. It's pretty well established that they manipulate their numbers to put positive spins on things, and this is an attempt to end fact checking. I am hoping the Competition Bureau busts this racket wide open. They have been all over them recently.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/toronto-real-estate-board-demands-brokers-halt-online-sales-stats-1.2978746

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:53

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

There's a supreme court hearing coming up in may regarding real estate board sales data.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 17:23

OhYeah: Jan 20, 2007; 1. Currently the most prevalent form of decision-making in the western world

2. While you are correct in saying that the society owns

3. You have not for a second demonstrated here why

4. I love the way that you equate "state" with "bureaucracy". Is that how you really feel about the state

David Corbett posted:

Yeah, Versailles is way nicer than that nouveau-riche shitheap. It reminds me of seeing a recent Calgary newspaper article about a "French chateau" for sale in Calgary for $20m. Utter nonsense. If I had that kind of money, I'd buy a real French chateau down in Provence or something and grow grapes for fun, not spend all winter wishing it was summer again.

http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/174910/French-Chateau-Dordogne-24-France/

An actual 400-year old small castle with 175 acres of land in South-Western France. Around 2 million.

If that is not old enough for you, you can also buy one built during the reign of Henri IV, for 6,6 million: http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/172270/French-Chateau-Var-83-France/
30 minutes from Saint Tropez, the number one place to be if you are rich and beautiful.

Yeah but go ahead guys Calgary is cool as well I guess.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 17:50

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

For PT6A, there's also about a hundred villages in Spain for sale, for $50,000 - $300,000, which usually include a church and 40+ houses in addition to a grand manor. In case you want to roleplay as a literal lord or something, I dunno. :v:

# ? Mar 3, 2015 18:02

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Rime posted:

For PT6A, there's also about a hundred villages in Spain for sale, for $50,000 - $300,000, which usually include a church and 40+ houses in addition to a grand manor. In case you want to roleplay as a literal lord or something, I dunno.

There was some hungarian municipality trying to lease itself off recently too right? Global recessions do strange things to poorer countries.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 18:05

Professor Shark: May 22, 2012

OhYeah posted:

http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/174910/French-Chateau-Dordogne-24-France/

An actual 400-year old small castle with 175 acres of land in South-Western France. Around 2 million.

If that is not old enough for you, you can also buy one built during the reign of Henri IV, for 6,6 million: http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/172270/French-Chateau-Var-83-France/
30 minutes from Saint Tropez, the number one place to be if you are rich and beautiful.

Yeah but go ahead guys Calgary is cool as well I guess.

If I ever win one of those huge lotteries I'm going to either buy or build a castle then roleplay a Tolstoy aristocrat and spend my time trying to be like the humble peasants, only I sleep in a castle

# ? Mar 3, 2015 18:11

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Professor Shark posted:

If I ever win one of those huge lotteries I'm going to either buy or build a castle then roleplay a Tolstoy aristocrat and spend my time trying to be like the humble peasants, only I sleep in a castle

Yeah, like Orlando Bloom's character in Kingdom of God. Get out, get your hands dirty helping the smith or farmers, retire to a nice feather bed at night.

Wait, we just wrote the script an Undercover Boss episode.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 18:26

Saltin: Aug 20, 2003; Don't touch

Cultural Imperial posted:

There's a supreme court hearing coming up in may regarding real estate board sales data.

I hope they get bent over. gently caress the TREB.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 18:40

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Professor Shark posted:

Toronto Real Estate Board demands brokers halt online sales stats

What is going on here for those who don't know a lot about the Game of Thrones that Realtors play?

Why the gently caress is this horseshit tolerated by society at large? Practically the most important result out of centuries of economic thought is that information symmetry is a good thing.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 18:57

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Lexicon posted:

Why the gently caress is this horseshit tolerated by society at large? Practically the most important result out of centuries of economic thought is that information symmetry is a good thing.

I agree 100%, whether you're doing the federal budget (*cough* long form census) or running a neighborhood diner you can't make good decisions with bad information.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 19:00

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Rime posted:

For PT6A, there's also about a hundred villages in Spain for sale, for $50,000 - $300,000, which usually include a church and 40+ houses in addition to a grand manor. In case you want to roleplay as a literal lord or something, I dunno.

Lol, that's actually less than you'd need to spend for an investor visa. I suppose I could go Roman-style and buy one of those as my villa, and have a nice place in the city as well...

I have to say that, all things being equal, I'd more of a penthouse kinda guy than a "lord of the village" type. I would be interested in buying a vineyard, though...

# ? Mar 3, 2015 19:04

Count Canuckula: Oct 22, 2014

Rime posted:

For PT6A, there's also about a hundred villages in Spain for sale, for $50,000 - $300,000, which usually include a church and 40+ houses in addition to a grand manor. In case you want to roleplay as a literal lord or something, I dunno.

I can run Dungeons and Dragons in real life!

I mean, if I wasn't living paycheck to paycheck as a skilled worker.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 19:11

peter banana: Sep 2, 2008; Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

OhYeah posted:

http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/174910/French-Chateau-Dordogne-24-France/

An actual 400-year old small castle with 175 acres of land in South-Western France. Around 2 million.

If that is not old enough for you, you can also buy one built during the reign of Henri IV, for 6,6 million: http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/172270/French-Chateau-Var-83-France/
30 minutes from Saint Tropez, the number one place to be if you are rich and beautiful.

Yeah but go ahead guys Calgary is cool as well I guess.

yeah, you can pick up a sweet vineyard or a clakss old house in France fora few million. I saw a castle in Ireland for sale for something like 2 million euro and pointed it out to my husband (who is Irish) once. He just said, "Why would we move to lovely, rainy Limerick in a cold castle? We'd move to a Champagne vineyard in France if we won millions of dollars."

# ? Mar 3, 2015 20:04

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

OhYeah posted:

http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/174910/French-Chateau-Dordogne-24-France/

An actual 400-year old small castle with 175 acres of land in South-Western France. Around 2 million.

If that is not old enough for you, you can also buy one built during the reign of Henri IV, for 6,6 million: http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/172270/French-Chateau-Var-83-France/
30 minutes from Saint Tropez, the number one place to be if you are rich and beautiful.

Yeah but go ahead guys Calgary is cool as well I guess.

Now I"m looking at the prices of Castles again, thanks.

Just need that big money lottery win.

*edit*
I mean I can buy this http://statelyhomes4sale.com/castle-carey/ have enough left for my place in Italy and still have millions left over.

I'm buying this place instead
http://www.lionard.com/rome-real-estate-properties-in-lazio.html
I can live the life of the Pope.

sbaldrick fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Mar 3, 2015

# ? Mar 3, 2015 20:10

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

PT6A posted:

Lol, that's actually less than you'd need to spend for an investor visa. I suppose I could go Roman-style and buy one of those as my villa, and have a nice place in the city as well...

I have to say that, all things being equal, I'd more of a penthouse kinda guy than a "lord of the village" type. I would be interested in buying a vineyard, though...

I'm pretty sure that a €250k property purchase grants you automatic Spanish (and thus EU) citizenship as well. It did a few years ago, at least.

Bottom line, if you're loaded there are so many better places than rural Canada to fritter away millions.

VVVV: There's several for sale in BC right now, but at BC real estate prices so :shrug:

Rime fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Mar 3, 2015

# ? Mar 3, 2015 20:57

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

gently caress that there was a mountain for sale last year (that was covered by John Oliver on The Bugle). I'd buy a mountain and re-create Osama Bin Laden's Mountain Fortress As Envisaged By the Fevered Minds of TIME Magazine.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 21:01

David Corbett: Feb 6, 2008; Courage, my friends; 'tis not too late to build a better world.

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

I agree 100%, whether you're doing the federal budget (*cough* long form census) or running a neighborhood diner you can't make good decisions with bad information.

I suspect that this is precisely the point.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 22:23

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

Rime posted:

I'm pretty sure that a €250k property purchase grants you automatic Spanish (and thus EU) citizenship as well. It did a few years ago, at least.

Bottom line, if you're loaded there are so many better places than rural Canada to fritter away millions.

VVVV: There's several for sale in BC right now, but at BC real estate prices so

I'm guessing for most people, a sense of place and proximity to loved ones outweighs what is 'objectively' the better option. I know if I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd be moving to an estate in Caledon (or similar), not to Spain.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 23:16

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Castles are cheap because you can't live in them. Cold, no services, no wiring, terrible useless things. You're better off looking at modern builds on large acreage for a better comparison.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 23:26

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Lexicon posted:

Why the gently caress is this horseshit tolerated by society at large? Practically the most important result out of centuries of economic thought is that information symmetry is a good thing.

Because information control is one of the few ways real estate agents can justify their worthless profession.

# ? Mar 4, 2015 00:07

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Rime posted:

I'm pretty sure that a €250k property purchase grants you automatic Spanish (and thus EU) citizenship as well. It did a few years ago, at least.

Bottom line, if you're loaded there are so many better places than rural Canada to fritter away millions.

VVVV: There's several for sale in BC right now, but at BC real estate prices so

Last time I checked, it's now up to 500k Euros for a real estate visa. A wee bit out of my price range for the next few decades.

# ? Mar 4, 2015 00:23

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

etalian posted:

Because information control is one of the few ways real estate agents can justify their worthless profession.

I'm not confused about why it benefits RE agents. I'm confused why society at large permits this setup to persist.

# ? Mar 4, 2015 00:44

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

30% of our population depends on re sales information asymmetry because 30% of our population works in re.

# ? Mar 4, 2015 00:51

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

cowofwar posted:

Castles are cheap because you can't live in them. Cold, no services, no wiring, terrible useless things. You're better off looking at modern builds on large acreage for a better comparison.

There are modernized one of sale for less then the 20 million in Calgary you could modernize a fair size one for purchase prize plus and coemey out to less then 20 million.

Most truly ramshackle one have long been knocked down.

# ? Mar 4, 2015 01:15

blah_blah: Apr 15, 2006

Lexicon posted:

I'm not confused about why it benefits RE agents. I'm confused why society at large permits this setup to persist.

Regulatory capture is a thing. The current iteration of the RE industry relies essentially on information asymmetry whereas individual citizens are only mildly inconvenienced by it in on average and forget that it exists except when they are looking to buy a house. Even though it's a pretty clear net negative to society, the former group is much more invested in maintaining the status quo than the latter group is in changing it.

# ? Mar 4, 2015 01:16

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Rime posted:

For PT6A, there's also about a hundred villages in Spain for sale, for $50,000 - $300,000, which usually include a church and 40+ houses in addition to a grand manor. In case you want to roleplay as a literal lord or something, I dunno.

Does it include peasants too?

# ? Mar 4, 2015 01:46

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

etalian posted:

Does it include peasants too?

Yes but they're made up of dirt poor senior citizens who love Franco.

# ? Mar 4, 2015 01:50

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# ? May 24, 2024 13:08

OhYeah: Jan 20, 2007; 1. Currently the most prevalent form of decision-making in the western world

2. While you are correct in saying that the society owns

3. You have not for a second demonstrated here why

4. I love the way that you equate "state" with "bureaucracy". Is that how you really feel about the state

cowofwar posted:

Castles are cheap because you can't live in them. Cold, no services, no wiring, terrible useless things. You're better off looking at modern builds on large acreage for a better comparison.

Yes, south of France is known for its terrible climate.

https://www.google.ee/search?q=st+tropez+france&biw=1920&bih=907&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Jlv2VKqyCon9ygOXv4LoBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

# ? Mar 4, 2015 02:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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