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Deceitful Penguin posted:Also, is there some package somewhere where you can get the DLC heavily discounted? I look at all the stuff and uhhh, 75 bux for just the core DLC is a bit stiff. What's the order of necessary DLC anyhow? What's the Old Gods for this game? Art of War is the Old gods of EU4. That and El Dorado are the two most important to me. I'm a bit fuzzy on what Wealth of Nations does (I think Trade companies and privateers); Conquest of Paradise lets you randomize the new world but it is ugly as gently caress and with all the new content added to the new world with El Dorado I think you can skip CoP.
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Mar 5, 2015 03:57
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^^edit: people say this a lot but I don't think it's anywhere near as necessary; the patch that came with it was The Old Gods, the actual expansion is just poo poo like automatic transports and army templates. You just missed a massive sale by like a few days  There isn't any that's as totally huge as the Old Gods, but Art of War is pretty significant- mostly just quality of life interface improvements though, so you'll probably be fine without getting it until you get more used to the game, especially since it's pretty expensive. El Dorado lets you make custom nations. Other than that they're all just really for specific regions in the game. Koramei fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Mar 5, 2015 |
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Mar 5, 2015 03:58
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Also, is there some package somewhere where you can get the DLC heavily discounted? I look at all the stuff and uhhh, 75 bux for just the core DLC is a bit stiff. What's the order of necessary DLC anyhow? What's the Old Gods for this game? When there's a sale on (usually right when they release DLC) everything but the most recent DLC will usually have a substantial discount. The ones that actually add gameplay rather than cosmetic stuff are: Conquest of Paradise (enables playing Native Americans and creating colonial nations) Wealth of Nations (enables assorted trading features and creating East India Companies) Res Publica (enables playing republics with a new faction thing) Art of War (adds assorted features for the 30 Years War and Napoleonic era) El Dorado (adds new stuff for Aztecs, Inca, and Maya, new exploration stuff, and the Nation Designer) You can mix and match any set of the DLC.
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Mar 5, 2015 04:02
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RabidWeasel posted:I really hate how some idea groups are balanced with a mixture of good ideas and total dogshit ones. I'm fine with not every idea being excellent but some of them are so very offensively bad and not helpful (reduced inflation reduction cost being one of the absolute worst) that I can't deal with it. I feel the same way. Idea Groups should be balanced around the opportunity cost of not being able to pick all of them. This should be even easier now that you're capped to 50% of Idea Groups from one category.
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Mar 5, 2015 04:07
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Deceitful Penguin posted:My GF is a wonderful woman and has enabled my bad life-choices by getting me the EUIV. Is the converter for CK2 working again? Or should I just get El Dorado and re-create my crap there? Order of Necessity for this game is something like 1) Art of War - its the single biggest update to the game and enables a load of really good new changes, i'm a little foggy on exactly what is free and what is for paid only but enough is paywalled that it's at the top of the list to get 2) Res Publica - national focus makes this game so much more fun and offers a way to mitigate lovely leaders without just waiting for them to day, also I believe this is required to play at least certain republics 3) El Dorado/Conquest of Paradise - If you like playing colonizers or new world nations CoP(for North American Natives or Colonial Governments) and El Dorado(for meso-american states) are must-haves, otherwise El Dorado still offers the nation builder which is totally awesome. 4) Purple Phoenix - For the Glory of Rome 5) Wealth of Nations - I dont even remember what comes with this, Trade Companies I guess.
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Mar 5, 2015 04:10
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Whorelord posted:does anyone else like pairing up humanist and religious as idea groups? Yes I love doing this. It's sort of a waste in the sense that you're either making missionaries and conversion useless or making the high tolerance you get from humanism useless but you are pretty much immune to internal problems after this.
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Mar 5, 2015 04:16
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Is it Innovative or Humanist that has the random province +1 base tax event that pops up occasionally?
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Mar 5, 2015 04:26
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420 Gank Mid posted:Is it Innovative or Humanist that has the random province +1 base tax event that pops up occasionally? I know Humanist does for certain.
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Mar 5, 2015 04:27
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Combine it with Inti and become rich off of events.
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Mar 5, 2015 04:29
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Bort Bortles posted:Is yearly inflation reduction worth taking? Or once you hit midgame is the third tier production building enough to stave off owning a few gold provinces or having colonies sending you gold? I've never played a country that has had a lot of gold but my last game as Assuming you are getting a steady increase in inflation due to gold, taking -0.10% yearly inflation reduction basically means you are saving yourself having to reduce 2% inflation every 20 years, for 75 Admin points. So you're basically saving 3.75 Admin points per year, or ~0.31 per month. Unless my math is off anyway. Counting Houses seem pretty inefficient to me once you start getting to any decent size. You have to have one in every province to just get -0.10% to inflation per year. Total cost to build one in a province (including prereqs) is 225 Gold and 30 Admin. But that does also get you +20% Production Efficiency and +20% Goods Produced as well, which at least slightly improves your income and slightly reduces your reliance on gold. So say if you have 30 provinces (which is not particularly big), total cost to build them everywhere would be 6750 Gold and 900 Admin points. If your inflation from Gold was +0.10 per year, it'd take you 240 years of reducing inflation manually to equal the amount of Admin points as building those 30 Counting Houses (including prereqs again). Now think about how many Admin points you'd spend on those buildings if you were a much bigger nation, while the cost of manually reducing inflation stays the same. The Tax Assessor unique building on the other hand, only costs 1000 Gold and 30 Admin and drops you by a fixed -0.05% per year. So that seems very much worth building if you expect to have a lot of inflation. There's also the adviser type that drops it by -0.10% per year. So that's -0.15% you can reduce it by those means. If I'm not misunderstanding, it looks like you get inflation from gold equal to +0.50 * Percent of Income From Gold. So you could match 30% income from gold with just the adviser and Tax Assessor. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just increase your income from other sources instead? Since that would lower your dependence on gold thus reducing inflation, AND giving you more income. I guess it's going to depend on just how much gold we're talking about. If you run a gold-centric game I'd be interested to see what kind of numbers you get.
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Mar 5, 2015 04:52
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:But that does also get you +20% Production Efficiency and +20% Goods Produced as well, which at least slightly improves your income and slightly reduces your reliance on gold. Really? I don't remember seeing that in the tooltips.
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Mar 5, 2015 05:00
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StandardVC10 posted:Really? I don't remember seeing that in the tooltips. Those are from the prereq buildings, Constable and Workshop. Not from the counting house itself.
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Mar 5, 2015 05:02
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Assuming you are getting a steady increase in inflation due to gold, taking -0.10% yearly inflation reduction basically means you are saving yourself having to reduce 2% inflation every 20 years, for 75 Admin points. So you're basically saving 3.75 Admin points per year, or ~0.31 per month. Unless my math is off anyway. This is far more detail than I expected. Thank you for the maths and information.
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Mar 5, 2015 05:20
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Did they buff lucky nations or something in the patch? Every time I come into contact with them my game goes to complete poo poo for some reason, and I don't remember having THIS much of a problem before the patch. I mean, yeah nomads fall off pretty quick and all. But when I attacked that stack there was loving five there, and they just sat there, not dying while the other ones waltzed up out of fog wiped an equal size vassal stack and then joined the fight like it wasn't no big thing. Its... kinda silly. During my Great Khan run I was attacking the Ottomans in the loving mountains and winning, but I can't seem to do anything to them now. It was the same with France in my Inca run. Its not just that they win when hilariously outnumbered, they don't seem to take any casualties. At least in comparison.
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Mar 5, 2015 06:02
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I think I may have found a bug, or is this WAD? No truce flag. No truce notifier in their diplo screen either.  But if I go to declare war I get the Truce Break penalty... I had been guaranteeing them for a bit...would that affect it? If it does, it does not tell me so in the UI 
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Mar 5, 2015 06:54
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It appears their general has better fire AND shock values, as well as them (ottomans) likely having higher discipline from the janissary events, probably better tactics from being ahead on tech, and the +1/+1 bonus for being lucky. Honestly, I'm not surprised you lost. Does Sivas have any terrain modifiers?Bort Bortles posted:I think I may have found a bug, or is this WAD? A guarantee counts as a truce and adds a 1-year truce when you break the guarantee, I believe.
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Mar 5, 2015 06:57
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GreyPowerVan posted:It appears their general has better fire AND shock values, as well as them (ottomans) likely having higher discipline from the janissary events, probably better tactics from being ahead on tech, and the +1/+1 bonus for being lucky. Honestly, I'm not surprised you lost. Does Sivas have any terrain modifiers? 5-year truce, but yes. And it's only one-way, so they don't have a truce with you, but you do with them, hence nothing showing up.
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Mar 5, 2015 07:10
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Allyn posted:5-year truce, but yes. And it's only one-way, so they don't have a truce with you, but you do with them, hence nothing showing up. Well poo poo, I wish the UI had any sort of information about that! It is completely lacking any indication of a truce once you revoke the guarantee.
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Mar 5, 2015 07:12
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Pretty sure the tooltip says exactly that when you guarantee them.
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Mar 5, 2015 08:15
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PittTheElder posted:Pretty sure the tooltip says exactly that when you guarantee them. Also it should show up in your own truces, either on the diplo screen for your country or on one of the flags up top.
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Mar 5, 2015 08:43
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Bort Bortles posted:Well poo poo, I wish the UI had any sort of information about that! It is completely lacking any indication of a truce once you revoke the guarantee. Look at your diplomacy screen, it's a one-way truce. They don't have a truce with you, but you do with them which is why it won't show on the province screen or their diplomacy screen. And what PittTheElder said. edit: And it shows in the truce alert at the top of the screen.
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Mar 5, 2015 08:50
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I wish there was a way to make it more desirable to go into naval or income based idea sets, or the other specialty ones like espionage / innovative. As it stands, even if they were incredibly overpowered, which espionage may be, it is still more desirable to grab idea sets that improve land combat or soften the penalties of territorial expansion
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Mar 5, 2015 16:16
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Kersch posted:I wish there was a way to make it more desirable to go into naval or income based idea sets, or the other specialty ones like espionage / innovative. As it stands, even if they were incredibly overpowered, which espionage may be, it is still more desirable to grab idea sets that improve land combat or soften the penalties of territorial expansion Well fwiw Innovative was good right before 1.10. I think in general people have been a little extreme with how bad it is now, but it's no longer the pseudo-military power it was previously. I think the income ones can be situationally useful, especially since you're somewhat inhibited in just stacking mil ideas now. I think if you made the loan mechanic a bit more punishing and/or capped them a lot sooner, that might help a bit. The big issue I think is that military ideas are essentially income-based, since they help you take more land (and hence raise your income). Humanist functions in much the same way-it reduces penalties that would otherwise hinder your income. The big problem with naval is that there's a lot of countries that have small/limited navies, so a lot of time you can just kinda ignore it. And for instance even when you do really need to invade England or something, ships don't have the manpower limiting factor so you're much easier to leverage economic advantages into just overwhelming them with tons of heavies or whatever, so you're still better off just taking offensive/defensive/quantity/quality and conquering a bunch of land to get huge income, then just dumping huge masses of ships at them. alansmithee fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Mar 5, 2015 |
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Mar 5, 2015 16:26
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Recently I was thinking about how it might change the game if instead of armies themselves sieging provinces, if there was like a "military engineer" agent which worked like missionaries. The number you had could be controlled by tech level, govt. type, ideas, etc. maybe they could be dislodged without the support of friendly troops, or diplomats(spies) could be used to destroy or hamper them
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Mar 5, 2015 16:26
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Kersch posted:I wish there was a way to make it more desirable to go into naval or income based idea sets, or the other specialty ones like espionage / innovative. As it stands, even if they were incredibly overpowered, which espionage may be, it is still more desirable to grab idea sets that improve land combat or soften the penalties of territorial expansion I feel espionage might be worth it, if you could use it to influence CTAs or things like that. I don't see how they could possibly make Naval is outside of combining a lot of their ideas, say instead of +Bigshipcombat it was +ship combat and more bonuses added to it to make a navy vastly superior and cheaper, you'd have to make it borderline OP and even then it would remain situational. Edit: I don't play MP, does Espionage have a role there? I could see the RR being really annoying. Tahirovic fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Mar 5, 2015 |
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Mar 5, 2015 16:34
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Kersch posted:I wish there was a way to make it more desirable to go into naval or income based idea sets, or the other specialty ones like espionage / innovative. As it stands, even if they were incredibly overpowered, which espionage may be, it is still more desirable to grab idea sets that improve land combat or soften the penalties of territorial expansion I don't think anyone has ever accused espionage of being overpowered, which is a shame because it would be a lot of fun if it was more effective. I think it's even pretty ho-hum when you take it as the Hashashin, and they're the most espionage-focused country in the game.
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Mar 5, 2015 16:41
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Spakstik posted:I don't think anyone has ever accused espionage of being overpowered Maybe overpowered is the wrong word. But imho, no other idea set does as good of a job at improving one aspect of gameplay as espionage does at improving, well, espionage. But like I said it still doesn't make it as attractive as other idea sets
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Mar 5, 2015 17:04
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For Naval ideas, I feel like one of the groups should have a Blockade Bonus. That is, instead of a blockade taking you from -2 to 0, it would take you from -2 to +2. Or maybe, a bonus to the effect of blockades on warscore, and increase to the effect of them on increasing war exhaustion and lowering war enthusiasm (I don't think +% Blockade Efficiency does this already, does it?). I haven't messed with Privateering too much, but I feel like there should be a bonus to Privateering in one of them too, something to let you deliberately attack and steal other nation's boats or blockade them to increase unrest. The big advantage there is you can do it even when not at war, so you can soften up someone who you aren't at war with with your boats before declaring war and going in with the troops. Another good bonus would be improved troop transport, so for nations that are on islands or otherwise need to attack across water. Maybe it would increase transport speed, or reduce the penalty to amphibious landings or crossings.
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Mar 5, 2015 17:19
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I feel like economic should have a - monarch points idea for buildings. As it is, it's so underwhelming because money is useful, but it's the least useful resource you have most of the time. If the idea group that focuses on money also let you build more buildings with that extra gold, it would probably be a lot more powerful. Switch it with the completely useless -33% Inflation Cost reduction - you already have +.10 reduction/year in the group, which is a really weak idea, and the capstone makes both even more watered down. Economic is really weird like that - some of its ideas are weak, and then are even weaker with the ideas in the group. -1 Interest per annum isn't very useful, but it's even less so in the group that's devoted to making money. It might be more useful if going into debt to build buildings was a viable strategy, but the monarch points cost for building buildings is generally the issue. It could lead to some new strategies if Economic came with a a decent building power cost idea, -20% or better. Pair it with the -20% you get with tropical wood or some other national ideas and you could have a decent group. You'd take out a bunch of loans, build more buildings at -20% gold cost and -50% or so power cost. The yearly inflation reduction would help with the issues from taking loans, the -1 interest would help since you're actually taking loans more than a couple times on accident each game, the increased tax and production from the buildings would go with the other ideas, and all the ideas would be working toward the same thing, making it a lot more viable as an Admin choice.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:13
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Anyone else see the AI getting stuck? Was going for the Great Khan as Golden Horde and at war with Muscovy after having beaten Crimea. My vassals Ryazan and Circassia just sat there in Crimean territory for a year and I couldn't get them to move. Eventually the Russians came and wiped them both. My tiny vassal armies didn't even try to run and I really needed the Ryazan general because mine were all trash. After that I lost a battle and my army retreated to the same province they were in even though they were in my territory and that was the end of that.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:20
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OneTwentySix posted:since you're actually taking loans more than a couple times on accident each game Whoah there, I take out assloads of loans, is that unusual? Whenever I'm playing a nation that's at all uncertain my early game will usually have me fairly deep in debt.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:22
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Koramei posted:Whoah there, I take out assloads of loans, is that unusual? Whenever I'm playing a nation that's at all uncertain my early game will usually have me fairly deep in debt. Are you also making a beeline for the fourth idea in the Economic group in these tight, uncertain outcome games?
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Mar 5, 2015 18:29
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Koramei posted:Whoah there, I take out assloads of loans, is that unusual? Whenever I'm playing a nation that's at all uncertain my early game will usually have me fairly deep in debt. I take out tons of loans too and have over 800 logged play-hours. That's what -interest ideas are for.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:29
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I'll avoid taking out loans unless I can reap some immediate benefit from it, ie the event that nets you a 100 tradition general or making GBS threads out a bunch of mercs to go over my limit to smash an enemy stack in the early game. After 20-30 years, your economy should start ramping up to an absurd degree, making gold a non-issue so long as you don't constantly max out your army or run nothing but heavy ships and artillery.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:30
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Cynic Jester posted:I'll avoid taking out loans unless I can reap some immediate benefit from it, ie the event that nets you a 100 tradition general or making GBS threads out a bunch of mercs to go over my limit to smash an enemy stack in the early game. After 20-30 years, your economy should start ramping up to an absurd degree, making gold a non-issue so long as you don't constantly max out your army or run nothing but heavy ships and artillery. Paradox is unreasonably Scandinavian in its fiscal policy (monarchs during this time borrowed like mad and defaulted like mad - sorry you couldn't be a cool kid, Sweden). Loans can allow you to do a lot of important things, and if you get your interest rate low enough, can pay for themselves when you're building things like manufactories. Also, don't underestimate having a really strong military alpha strike. You might hemorrhage money going vastly over your force limit by, say, doubling it with mercs, but if this lets you wipe out a large enemy in 3 months, then it's probably going to pay for itself in terms of saving on reinforcement costs, because you can then disband them and siege your enemy with your regular army.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:37
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OneTwentySix posted:I feel like economic should have a - monarch points idea for buildings. This would be great. Your whole post makes a lot of sense. Re:loanchat I never take loans except for reasons like Cynic Jester said, but I am kinda a scrub at the game so maybe I should be taking more loans out to do more crazy poo poo?
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Mar 5, 2015 18:44
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Dibujante posted:(monarchs during this time borrowed like mad and defaulted like mad - sorry you couldn't be a cool kid, Sweden). This is something I'd really like to see borne out in the game. Also exponential costs of fielding armies, to keep blobs from becoming vastly more powerful than alliances of small powers.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:47
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Torgo2727 posted:Are you also making a beeline for the fourth idea in the Economic group in these tight, uncertain outcome games? Dibujante posted:I take out tons of loans too and have over 800 logged play-hours. That's what -interest ideas are for. Nah I wasn't trying to defend economic, he just seemed to be dissing the concept of using loans in general 
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Mar 5, 2015 18:49
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PittTheElder posted:This is something I'd really like to see borne out in the game. Also exponential costs of fielding armies, to keep blobs from becoming vastly more powerful than alliances of small powers. Having armies get more expensive would help deal with the whole "acquiring money over time gets easier, while getting ideas that make things cheaper the whole while". And Naval costs go up as you go up in Dep Tech, I am surprised that this is not the same for Army costs going up as you increase in Mil Tech. edit: Also I am surprised larger forts do not cost upkeep. I really wish there was a supply train mechanic so that having forts on the border of an enemy would matter. edit2: and setting army doctrine for when on the offensive - you can keep costs down if you try to live off of the land but it increases revolt risk or gives you a dip rep penalty OR you can pay full upkeep to not ravage the countryside to keep occupied land's RR down and get some sort of other bonus. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Mar 5, 2015 |
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Mar 5, 2015 18:57
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It's not so much that using loans is bad, because they're not - they can be really great to win a war you couldn't otherwise, but once you win that war, you're likely not going to need to do that again once the early game is over - you'll be making enough money and have enough of a tax base that loans quickly become "oops, bad event, and I didn't have enough saved up." You can take out loans to build buildings, but the limitation on this is going to be that they cost so many monarch points. Odds are, the reason you're not building 20 buildings is because you don't want to lose 200 monarch points, not because you don't want to spend 1,000 gold. Which stinks - taking out loans to improve your economy makes a ton of sense, that's one of the main reasons people actually take out loans. Money is just not that useful vs. monarch points, so a group dedicated to making you money needs to make the money you're making more useful.
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Mar 5, 2015 19:04
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