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Kanos posted:Especially since this was likely to be the first time the Gunpla Academy actually pulled out the stops. It's probably the first time they'd have actually seen The End fight cloakless(since he was interrupted when he tried it on Meijin), the first time Shia deployed her repair haros, and the first time Transient did whatever the hell its glowy wings are supposed to do. It's all really important information that they could really benefit from having. That's probably the reason they left them out of seeing the fight, so they can have more "What's this!?" reactions when people do stuff. Also didn't Yuuma already see The End cloakless when he fought him when he was a kid? I don't remember if he saw under the cloak or if he just got wrecked by the fangs.
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Mar 5, 2015 05:37
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TARDISman posted:That's probably the reason they left them out of seeing the fight, so they can have more "What's this!?" reactions when people do stuff. Also didn't Yuuma already see The End cloakless when he fought him when he was a kid? I don't remember if he saw under the cloak or if he just got wrecked by the fangs. That was a completely different machine 2 years ago.
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Mar 5, 2015 05:40
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The whole not watching the fight thing really bugged me too. They know that if they beat GaiGaiGundam 3 they are going to have to face either Lucas or the Gundam Academy people, so you'd think they would watch the fight between the 2 to better understand their future opponents. Then again, the fight would have likely been recorded, so they can probably always watch the recording.
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Mar 5, 2015 05:41
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Pureauthor posted:That was a completely different machine 2 years ago. Shows how well I remember the first few episodes.
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Mar 5, 2015 05:50
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They don't really care. Nobody really cares
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Mar 5, 2015 05:50
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Khisanth Magus posted:Then again, the fight would have likely been recorded, so they can probably always watch the recording.
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Mar 5, 2015 06:00
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Khisanth Magus posted:The whole not watching the fight thing really bugged me too. They know that if they beat GaiGaiGundam 3 they are going to have to face either Lucas or the Gundam Academy people, so you'd think they would watch the fight between the 2 to better understand their future opponents. I was under the impression that their match was immediately after Lucas/Gunpla Academy.
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Mar 5, 2015 06:11
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I kind of wish the Full Cloth had outright sliced The End in half when it got the surprise heat dagger in. That's what I thought it was doing when it started digging in its foot to push off.
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Mar 5, 2015 06:12
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BlitzBlast posted:I kind of wish the Full Cloth had outright sliced The End in half when it got the surprise heat dagger in. That's what I thought it was doing when it started digging in its foot to push off. But then we wouldn't have seen GUNDAM THE END take a goddamn bite out of that Geara Doga. It wouldn't have been worth the price.
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Mar 5, 2015 06:26
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Oh wow, turns out that if a character's whole motivation can be summed up with "they're bored" they end up boring. Yeah, this season was pretty much doomed from the start if that's what they're running with.
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Mar 5, 2015 06:57
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Koopa Kid posted:Oh wow, turns out that if a character's whole motivation can be summed up with "they're bored" they end up boring. Yeah, they leaned really hard on ennui as a character motivation. Gunpla Academy is so good and awesome and untouchable that their only goal in life at this point is to find someone to fight against that they won't stomp into the dirt in three seconds. That's actually the baldly stated motivation of every member of the Academy as of this episode. Wilfrid just wants a rival, Adou wants challenging fights, and Shia wants someone on her level. They're all really, really bored because they're too perfect.
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Mar 5, 2015 07:05
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Kanos posted:Yeah, they leaned really hard on ennui as a character motivation. Gunpla Academy is so good and awesome and untouchable that their only goal in life at this point is to find someone to fight against that they won't stomp into the dirt in three seconds. That's actually the baldly stated motivation of every member of the Academy as of this episode. Wilfrid just wants a rival, Adou wants challenging fights, and Shia wants someone on her level. They're all really, really bored because they're too perfect. Hell, it would even have been decent if they'd all flipped their nut and gone full-on "Rage on! RAGE ON!" Tatsuya-style once they figured out Lukas was proving a challenge to all three. Khisanth Magus posted:Then again, the fight would have likely been recorded, so they can probably always watch the recording. That'd still deeply undercut how important the rivalry is supposed to be if they're not willing to watch the fight as it happens.
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Mar 5, 2015 07:22
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Kanos posted:Yeah, they leaned really hard on ennui as a character motivation. Gunpla Academy is so good and awesome and untouchable that their only goal in life at this point is to find someone to fight against that they won't stomp into the dirt in three seconds. That's actually the baldly stated motivation of every member of the Academy as of this episode. Wilfrid just wants a rival, Adou wants challenging fights, and Shia wants someone on her level. They're all really, really bored because they're too perfect. Can I just bring up again that Build Fighters Try really desperately needed a Chairman Mashita or something? Try is a bunch of characters in search of a plot. It turns out Imagawa had it right all those years ago with G Gundam, it isn't enough to just have a big tournament: You need to make your big tournament a part of an even larger plot.
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Mar 5, 2015 08:18
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I've been rewatching the first season and the difference is so apparent. The opponents have stories and personalities and some have motivations other than "we're bored." There was the whole " what are plavsky particles " subplot that was embodied by Nils but was kind of an undercurrent the whole world tournament with the chairman's behavior. Everyone the second season, protagonists and antagonists alike, are completely one sided. There is no Ricardo Fellini hitting on women the entire season through gunpla(loved when he gave a random lady in a cafe a victory gundam to hit on her) and throwing up after a match because he was way hung over, no Nils with his investigation, Meijin is limited in how much he can cheese out. Most shows like this with tournaments have some over arching story. Others like Angelic Layer get by on the characters. This season is trying to play the most straight tournament setting I've seen in an anime with hardly any redeeming characters.
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Mar 5, 2015 08:36
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Ricardo Fellini is the greatest character in all of Gundam, so comparing anyone to him is a little unfair. Your broader point is correct, though.
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Mar 5, 2015 08:39
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Khisanth Magus posted:I've been rewatching the first season and the difference is so apparent. The opponents have stories and personalities and some have motivations other than "we're bored." There was the whole " what are plavsky particles " subplot that was embodied by Nils but was kind of an undercurrent the whole world tournament with the chairman's behavior. It also has no endgame. There's no weight at all to the National Tournament as a climax, because there's the World Cup Open Tournament after it. And we already know Try Fighters are going to win the Nationals.
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Mar 5, 2015 08:54
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I think that Try sort of insisting on the tournament arc being really straight-laced is definitely one of the shortcomings of its second half. They had characters they could have brought in to the nationals to make them interesting, they just didn't get used after they got eliminated during the regionals, because that's how they decided to run the show. If they'd just contrived a reason to have teams form out of the interesting regional players, we could have had at least some interesting things happening on the side. Here's what I'd have done: Add Gyanko, Shimon, Sakai, That wouldn't give us an antagonist or anything, but we could swing 2-3 more teams to care slightly more about.
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Mar 5, 2015 09:31
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The cast inflation is definitely the biggest problem for making a straight tournament work. More so when they have yet to give us a real reason to want to see anyone win. "wanting to get stronger/fight strong dudes" does not work when you do not fall under the underdog category or someone with a tragic (I need to win to pay bills etc) background in a shounen setting. Punching dudes for the sake of it is not a good motivation, and Fumina's and Yuuma's reasons aren't any better for a full show either. If they really insisted on keeping the cast in groups of three I would have much preferred two fighters and a mechanic or something. It wouldn't deal with the inflation but maybe how they interact would be better and the fights would be less busy.
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Mar 5, 2015 09:37
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Omnicrom posted:Can I just bring up again that Build Fighters Try really desperately needed a Chairman Mashita or something? Try is a bunch of characters in search of a plot. It turns out Imagawa had it right all those years ago with G Gundam, it isn't enough to just have a big tournament: You need to make your big tournament a part of an even larger plot. Eh, not having some evil plot going on would be fine if the characters were more compelling. For all intents and purposes it's a sports anime and a lot of shows in the genre get by on the strength of their characters.
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Mar 5, 2015 09:44
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It's really bad when a game of tennis is more interesting and fantastical than a show about moving Gundam fanfiction with powers limited by imagination.
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Mar 5, 2015 10:12
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I still don't get why they didn't just play into Sekai being terrible at gunpla. The show would be so much more interesting if our protagonist was a terrible builder that squeaked out wins with his lovely snapbuild because it was made with heart and BURNING SPIRIT. I know they wanted Sei to have a presence, but poo poo, give the Build Burning to a rival or something. Make the greatest builder in the world an obstacle for our hero to overcome, instead of this trump card that's always in his corner.
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Mar 5, 2015 11:03
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Srice posted:Eh, not having some evil plot going on would be fine if the characters were more compelling. For all intents and purposes it's a sports anime and a lot of shows in the genre get by on the strength of their characters. Yeah, you don't need a big overriding evil plot at all. Season 1 barely had one at all besides Mashita loving with Sei and Reiji from time to time, to the point where they didn't even realize they were being hosed with until they broke Meijin's mind control glasses. There wasn't any real "We must find out who's responsible!" drive even when they got hosed with since their entire focus was on the tournament. The characters were just more fleshed out and had a lot more room to breathe because they weren't shackled to a team format and there were less of them.
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Mar 5, 2015 12:03
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Tae posted:It's really bad when a game of tennis is more interesting and fantastical than a show about moving Gundam fanfiction with powers limited by imagination. So what you're saying is, we gotta bring Osamu Dezaki back from the dead and have him direct the next season of Build Fighters.   
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Mar 5, 2015 12:03
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Sure, but even Julian at least had a shiny red F91 Imagine. There was a competition around the time Try was gearing up to decide on one pre-existing suit that'd be included in the show from nearly every suit in the franchise. The Woundwort won if I recall, but the rules stipulated they could pick any of the top 5 suits or something so I'm assuming the reason the Crossbone Full Cloth is in is because of that. It still would have been nice to at least have it modified at least a little, even if just in small ways so that the model could include just the stock elements as well as a few small parts to modify it to Lucas' spec. Maybe a couple of new weapons or something. Kanos posted:Yeah, they leaned really hard on ennui as a character motivation. Gunpla Academy is so good and awesome and untouchable that their only goal in life at this point is to find someone to fight against that they won't stomp into the dirt in three seconds. That's actually the baldly stated motivation of every member of the Academy as of this episode. Wilfrid just wants a rival, Adou wants challenging fights, and Shia wants someone on her level. They're all really, really bored because they're too perfect. The hilarious thing being that despite all wanting someone to challenge them they're basically sitting on the top of the little leagues for Gundam while refusing to enter the big boy games where they'd face actual challenge for no stated reason. If they wanted a challenge they could just enter the world tournament and have it, but they're not doing so and instead are just re-entering the nationals every year while complaining about how no one can match up to them.
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Mar 5, 2015 13:24
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tsob posted:There was a competition around the time Try was gearing up to decide on one pre-existing suit that'd be included in the show from nearly every suit in the franchise. The Woundwort won if I recall, but the rules stipulated they could pick any of the top 5 suits or something so I'm assuming the reason the Crossbone Full Cloth is in is because of that. It still would have been nice to at least have it modified at least a little, even if just in small ways so that the model could include just the stock elements as well as a few small parts to modify it to Lucas' spec. Maybe a couple of new weapons or something. I get the impression that the nationals are qualifiers for the world tournament, so of course the Gunpla Academy participates in them. It's just the GA's roster that changes, and this is this particular trio's shot at a world-level competition.
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Mar 5, 2015 13:31
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I wish S2 had Lucas the exchange student in place of Sekai. He's not much better personality wise but at least fights like a S1 character.
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Mar 5, 2015 14:58
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Darth Walrus posted:I get the impression that the nationals are qualifiers for the world tournament, so of course the Gunpla Academy participates in them. It's just the GA's roster that changes, and this is this particular trio's shot at a world-level competition. This is shown to be correct in season 1. Sei and Reiji have to blow through the nationals tournament(where they were originally supposed to fight Yuuki before he ducked out to become Meijin) in order to qualify to go to the world tournament. It's just that S1 treated the nationals like a sort of "hey whatever this is hosted in a gymnasium somewhere" event instead of the massive event it is in Try.
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Mar 5, 2015 16:57
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I just wish that Minato and his team could use their burning friendship and super robot unity to dominate the terminally boring Try Fighters schlubs. They're the team who deserves to advance to the nationals. They even have a real super robot sword!Kanos posted:This is shown to be correct in season 1. Sei and Reiji have to blow through the nationals tournament(where they were originally supposed to fight Yuuki before he ducked out to become Meijin) in order to qualify to go to the world tournament. It's just that S1 treated the nationals like a sort of "hey whatever this is hosted in a gymnasium somewhere" event instead of the massive event it is in Try. They've been implying that Gunpla Battle has become much, much more popular in the seven years since the first series, so it would make sense that the level of competition and stakes are much higher than they used to be, even in the nationals. I still think it's lame though. The first Gundam BF had Nils wrecking Greco Logan, an adult about 15 years older than him, and making it to the nationals. While they're spending all this time on the Japanese tournament between teenagers alone. The sense of scale is bizarre.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:17
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tsob posted:There was a competition around the time Try was gearing up to decide on one pre-existing suit that'd be included in the show from nearly every suit in the franchise. The Woundwort won if I recall, but the rules stipulated they could pick any of the top 5 suits or something so I'm assuming the reason the Crossbone Full Cloth is in is because of that. What? No. The Xi won that, and we're still waiting for it. Look guys, the whole thing is just a Gundam joke. Julian used a F91. Lucas was trained by Julian, so he uses a Crossbone. It's that simple.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:59
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Killer Queen posted:I just wish that Minato and his team could use their burning friendship and super robot unity to dominate the terminally boring Try Fighters schlubs. They're the team who deserves to advance to the nationals. They even have a real super robot sword! That's the funny thing. There isn't as much there as you'd think, if the most recent episode is anything to go on.
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Mar 5, 2015 19:18
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It feels more like Minato is the pilot, while everyone else on his team is his personal metaphorical GaoGaiGar. Though it's a tossup whether Try is going to actually follow through with that line of thinking.
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Mar 5, 2015 19:33
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BlitzBlast posted:What? No. The Xi won that, and we're still waiting for it. That would be nice if that were true, but the dude who trained under Julian is Wilfrid Kijima, not Lucas.
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Mar 5, 2015 19:41
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Oh huh, you're right. Man they're so bland I actually interchanged them. Either way, Lucas has the exact same role as Julian so it still works out.
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Mar 5, 2015 20:00
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I wish they would of had at least one of the Gunpla Academy units get taken out of the match. G-Portent only half counts. The End should have gone the way of Burnings GM Custom. It feels off that the Champion of the European circuit can only flesh wounds the three unit and then falls apart at the end. Compared to the free for all from the first season where you see units being downed left and right. GN drives really do seem like cheat engines in Build Fighters. By that same token the nuclear engine Gundams from Seed should be powerhouses given their in-show power scale. Are the turbines that power Star Winning also GN Drives?
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Mar 5, 2015 20:10
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Gundam Build Fighters Try: I can't put enough quotations around the word "characters" so I won't even Try
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Mar 5, 2015 20:20
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Minato has no friends, he seeks validation through competition because that's the only way he knows how to get it. His line in the last episode shows that's still his mindset, despite all their talk about winning to spend more time battling together he hasn't figured out that the value is in the experience. He hasn't become friends with his team, at least not yet, and he thinks that he has to be the best for them to keep accepting him. His character is engaging because he's really just lonely and acting out, his rivalry with Yuuma is so one-sided because Yuuma has friends and doesn't get it. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with Minato's arc next episode.
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Mar 5, 2015 20:30
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Revolver Bunker posted:I wish they would of had at least one of the Gunpla Academy units get taken out of the match. G-Portent only half counts. The End should have gone the way of Burnings GM Custom. It feels off that the Champion of the European circuit can only flesh wounds the three unit and then falls apart at the end. Compared to the free for all from the first season where you see units being downed left and right. GN drives really do seem like cheat engines in Build Fighters. By that same token the nuclear engine Gundams from Seed should be powerhouses given their in-show power scale. Are the turbines that power Star Winning also GN Drives? GN Drives are no more or less powerful than any other given energy source in Build Fighters. We've seen plenty of GN Drive suits get tossed in the dumpster: Movie Tieria, the Alvatore(8 GN Drives!), Dark Matter, the Salty Kyrios in S2. I read lots of people complaining about GN Drive Hax but the very simple reason that the Gunpla Academy is unstoppable is that Gunpla Academy are the Designated Rivals and they won't show them losing or being seriously crippled by any given opponent prior to their fight with the Designated Protagonist Team for fear that it would take the wind out of the sails of the inevitable Team Try Fighter victory.
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Mar 5, 2015 21:24
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Koopa Kid posted:Minato has no friends, he seeks validation through competition because that's the only way he knows how to get it. yeah I kind of like this. He doesn't think of his teammates as very useful and I think that's what's going to lead to him losing next episode.
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Mar 5, 2015 21:27
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Monaghan posted:yeah I kind of like this. He doesn't think of his teammates as very useful and I think that's what's going to lead to him losing next episode. I think more like his relationships with people outside the Try Fighters are very transactional. He basically cut a deal with those guys, so his status within the group is conditional on winning. He needs to realize that he's looking in the wrong direction, he doesn't need to beat Yuuma to get the acceptance he's looking for.
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Mar 5, 2015 21:45
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Kanos posted:GN Drives are no more or less powerful than any other given energy source in Build Fighters. We've seen plenty of GN Drive suits get tossed in the dumpster: Movie Tieria, the Alvatore(8 GN Drives!), Dark Matter, the Salty Kyrios in S2. I read lots of people complaining about GN Drive Hax but the very simple reason that the Gunpla Academy is unstoppable is that Gunpla Academy are the Designated Rivals and they won't show them losing or being seriously crippled by any given opponent prior to their fight with the Designated Protagonist Team for fear that it would take the wind out of the sails of the inevitable Team Try Fighter victory. Fair enough. I suppose Plot Armor is the strongest of defenses. If Crossbone really is a battery drainer in the books and that translates to its function in game then it makes more sense why it needed to keep recharging after firing its beam crossbow and using its Zamaba a few times. Though that also means that whom ever was tasked with programming the Plavsky Particle engine sat there and punched in stat coding for every base model kit and weapon type Bandai's ever made. That's a long time in front of a computer. 
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Mar 5, 2015 22:52
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