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I believe that if the the PSA variants of the Fiat Ducato (RAM Promaster) are included in the count it is easily the best selling large van in Europe. They are cost efficient, spacious and reliable, but not quite as comfortable to drive as the Mercedes and VAG competition. Ford Transit is the best selling large van in Europe if the Ducato variants are counted separately. Here are the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroën versions in front of one of the factories that builds them:  The 2014 model is a bit better looking: 
DoLittle fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Mar 5, 2015 |
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Mar 5, 2015 17:54
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Tide posted:I don't know why it always suprises me to learn that Mitsubishi is still in business (on the consumer automotive side, anyway). I've always thought their cars were poo poo (aside from early Monteros). And ugly. Plus I rarely see them on the road. I drove a 1997 Mirage up until three years ago and I still see Mirages of that vintage on the road in Miami, far more than I see modern Mirages. They're not common like various Benzes and BMWs but they're around.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:29
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My Mom rented a 90's Mirage coupe 5 speed back in the day, which looking back, was a pretty strange rental car in the US, but I'm pretty sure it was an ultra cheapo special. I remember distinctly we drove from Albany to NYC and it was having a rough time accelerating on hills, just really struggling. I just looked it up, and they only came in a manual, and the 1.5L has just 92HP, so my memory must be correct. Looking back it seemed like such a complete shitbox even compared to our '92 Escort, but with the 1.8 it seems like it would be alright, looks pretty cool too.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:40
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IOwnCalculus posted:Nah, that one went the other way around. Mercedes got a decent bit out of that phase (mostly, cash). Chrysler didn't get a whole lot of anything.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:44
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Mitsubishi made some pretty great cars up until the second half of the 90s at which point thru totally ran out of money and kept running with the same old models. In 1995 the Galant was a pretty good car compared to a contemporary Honda or Mazda, in 2003 it really wasn't.
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Mar 5, 2015 19:26
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Tide posted:I don't know why it always suprises me to learn that Mitsubishi is still in business (on the consumer automotive side, anyway). I've always thought their cars were poo poo (aside from early Monteros). And ugly. Plus I rarely see them on the road. Their current offerings in the US are pathetic compared to every other big player in the market. A gimmicky electric city car, an ugly crossover with hilariously underpowered engines, a hideous ICE city car that Car & Driver compared to fast food, a run-of-the-mill compact crossover that underperforms all of its competition, an outdated and thirsty compact, and an outdated compact with 300hp. They're not even trying.
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Mar 5, 2015 19:30
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DoLittle posted:I believe that if the the PSA variants of the Fiat Ducato (RAM Promaster) are included in the count it is easily the best selling large van in Europe. They are cost efficient, spacious and reliable, but not quite as comfortable to drive as the Mercedes and VAG competition. Ford Transit is the best selling large van in Europe if the Ducato variants are counted separately. Except the US version, the ProMaster, is built in Mexico and is a loving abomination to procure (via any factory-order process). They really screwed the pooch and their headstart on the Transit.
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Mar 5, 2015 19:52
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Fo3 posted:Chrysler got merc platforms and built poo poo cars on them, crowing about the merc platforms. Anyone who bought one would probably think less about mercs. Except the Crossfire, I don't see how that's remotely true.
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Mar 5, 2015 20:06
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Except the Crossfire, I don't see how that's remotely true. Truth or not the perception is the 300c was also built on a Mercedes platform and it was most certainly an awful car
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Mar 5, 2015 20:25
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dissss posted:Truth or not the perception is the 300c was also built on a Mercedes platform and it was most certainly an awful car This is the first I've heard about the 300 being an awful car. The 2.7 V6 was a piece of garbage but it was a rental fleet special. Other than that, the 300 was quite well received.
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Mar 5, 2015 20:30
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:This is the first I've heard about the 300 being an awful car. The 2.7 V6 was a piece of garbage but it was a rental fleet special. Other than that, the 300 was quite well received. Maybe it's just one of those cars that wasn't well received in export markets.
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Mar 5, 2015 20:44
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The "LX cars are actually built on a Mercedes platform" isn't really correct. They used some components, particularly the suspension and transmission but statements that the 300 was built on the w210 e-class are wrong even though it's stated as fact some places. There was an interview posted here a while back where Someone from Chrysler commented that the engineers behind the platform would be very upset if you claimed it was just a Mercedes chassis.
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Mar 5, 2015 20:46
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DoLittle posted:I believe that if the the PSA variants of the Fiat Ducato (RAM Promaster) are included in the count it is easily the best selling large van in Europe. They are cost efficient, spacious and reliable, but not quite as comfortable to drive as the Mercedes and VAG competition. Ford Transit is the best selling large van in Europe if the Ducato variants are counted separately. My dad has a Peugeot Boxer (2012, I think) as his work van, and it has been absolutely unproblematic for the 80,000+km he's driven it so far. It's very pleasant to drive and ridiculously roomy with full standing room, he's got an entire electronics workshop stashed in the back. And it gets better mileage than my sedan.
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Mar 5, 2015 20:49
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Uhhh, the older 300c used some S & E class suspension parts, but the LX chassis is entirely their design. Daimler also did everything in their power to kill Chrysler. They slashed development budgets, refresh/upgrade budgets, and forced engineering software changes in the middle of vehicle development cycles. Mopar had 26 billion dollars of liquid cash before Bob Dumbass Eaton handed over the reigns to Germany for that sweet corporate payout. Mercedes left them high and dry while blaming their victims for the current state of affairs, a very German conclusion in hindsight.
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Mar 5, 2015 20:52
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Voltage posted:My Mom rented a 90's Mirage coupe 5 speed back in the day, which looking back, was a pretty strange rental car in the US, but I'm pretty sure it was an ultra cheapo special. I remember distinctly we drove from Albany to NYC and it was having a rough time accelerating on hills, just really struggling. I drove both the 1.5L coupe and the 1.8L sedan for several years each, they were fine in Florida where there aren't hills to speak of, and the 1.8L even had enough power to accelerate and run the A/C at the same time.
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Mar 5, 2015 21:04
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dissss posted:Maybe it's just one of those cars that wasn't well received in export markets. I guess so. It won a bunch of awards here in the US and I've always liked them. Big comfy relatively inexpensive American RWD barge that handles surprisingly well. Pretty good recipe.
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Mar 5, 2015 21:23
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dissss posted:Maybe it's just one of those cars that wasn't well received in export markets. There is a number of 300s on Australian roads. Note that the first gen 300s sold in Australia and European markets are built in Austria, the current model comes from Canada.
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Mar 5, 2015 22:50
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There are a few around in New Zealand too - they're just generally regarded as worse than a contemporary Falcodore. Probably don't help a lot of them were the diesel.
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Mar 5, 2015 22:56
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Dislike button posted:The "LX cars are actually built on a Mercedes platform" isn't really correct. They used some components, particularly the suspension and transmission but statements that the 300 was built on the w210 e-class are wrong even though it's stated as fact some places. There was an interview posted here a while back where Someone from Chrysler commented that the engineers behind the platform would be very upset if you claimed it was just a Mercedes chassis. Probably because they're mad that Benz forced them to redesign the platform at the last minute to incorporate old e-class components Pretty much every move Daimler Benz did hosed over Chrysler its honestly pretty impressive
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Mar 5, 2015 23:19
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Good. Chrysler was garbage and MB has continued to make awesome poo poo. Nothing of value was lost.
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Mar 6, 2015 02:37
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With regards to the ZF 8 speed Dodge is sticking in their RWD stuff. It turns out they kept the terrible car features in the truck. "Lifetime" fluid that goes dark after towing, a plastic pan that is also the filter that is also $460 from a Canadian dealer. It also takes 10 quarts of 40 dollar a quart unicorn horn oil. This is the kind of stuff you would put up with in a was $80k now $10k BMW. Not sure if it's something worth putting up with in a was $25k now $5k ram.
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Mar 6, 2015 02:51
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Chrysler building a lovely product? Why, I never!
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Mar 6, 2015 02:54
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Makes you wonder what the maintenance costs are going to be like for the 10 speed Ford and GM are collaborating on. Everything ICE is heading towards increased complexity to meet CAFE regs, but the savings on fuel are going to be eclipsed by pricey repairs. I guess it won't matter if most commuters are driving hybrids and EVs 10 years from now.
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Mar 6, 2015 04:27
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People manage anecdotal horror stories, but there isn't much evidence to indicate that total cost to own has increased significantly over time.
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Mar 6, 2015 04:29
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Powershift posted:With regards to the ZF 8 speed Dodge is sticking in their RWD stuff. It turns out they kept the terrible car features in the truck. "Lifetime" fluid that goes dark after towing, a plastic pan that is also the filter that is also $460 from a Canadian dealer. It also takes 10 quarts of 40 dollar a quart unicorn horn oil. poo poo like this pisses me off. Lifetime automatic transmission fluid has got to be codeword for "This thing will perform within spec for the length of the warranty". Then "gently caress You, you need a new transmission or a rebuild". I'd rather have a DCT that works fine until it needs a new clutch pack every 70,000 miles (or however long they last). It's really a shame so many people (myself included) had terrible experiences with Fords Powershift DCT; when it worked as it was meant to, it was awesome. It really made regular automatics feel antiquated. Mental Hospitality fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Mar 6, 2015 |
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Mar 6, 2015 04:32
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I don't know how long pricing has been out but I just saw that Jeep here in Canada is charging almost $32,000 for the Renegade Trailhawk ahhahahahahhahahah
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Mar 6, 2015 04:35
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Even at that pricepoint they're going to sell like hotcakes, and the average buyer still won't need the Trailhawk's relative capability. Jeep needs a Grand Hellcat at the other end of the spectrum.
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Mar 6, 2015 04:43
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Tekne posted:
The SRT Jeep GC is pretty crazy as-is, but I get a tingly feeling just thinking of the AWD hardware they'd use to put 700 horsepower to all four wheels. And how awesome it would be to tow my ski-doos to 60mph in 4 seconds.
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Mar 6, 2015 05:06
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we already have a hot GC, give us a god drat hellcat ram.
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Mar 6, 2015 05:14
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Given the platform/brand, I would imagine a Durango Hellcat for the next straight line midlife crisis machine. "Seven seats. Seven hundred horsepower." razorscooter fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Mar 6, 2015 |
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Mar 6, 2015 06:13
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Powershift posted:we already have a hot GC, give us a god drat hellcat The platform already accommodates a V6 with AWD, throw a blown 450hp Pentastar in the fucker with AWD and introduce it with a video showing it four-wheel drifting in circles around a Focus RS and STi.
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Mar 6, 2015 06:20
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Renegade Hellcat.
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Mar 6, 2015 12:30
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Why not just go all in? Viper Hellcat 
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Mar 6, 2015 12:40
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or since they're owned by Fiat now ... 500 Hellcat? Put a Hemi in the back, leave the trunk open as an Abarth homage, and tear a hole through time / tires.
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Mar 6, 2015 13:13
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VERTiG0 posted:I don't know how long pricing has been out but I just saw that Jeep here in Canada is charging almost $32,000 for the Renegade Trailhawk ahhahahahahhahahah Did you notice how the Canadian dollar has recently collapsed in value? You should probably get use to poo poo built outside of Canada costing more in the near future. At current exchange rates, a Porsche 911 starting at MSRP CAD 96k is only $77k USD - US MSRP is $84k, A 911 Turbo at MSRP CAD $172k is only $138k USD - US MSRP is $151k, and presumably you still get the standard block heater and whatever other bullshit they claim Canadians cars get to justify them being 20% more expensive back in the good days. Hey if it has the FMVSS sticker you can import them right? How long do you think they're going to let that state of affairs continue? 2016 will be 1996 all over again. Canada's economic heartland will have returned to Windsor-Sarnia and everyone will go back to driving Canada Value Edition Dodge Caravans Insh'allah! 
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Mar 6, 2015 13:19
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SouthLAnd posted:The SRT Jeep GC is pretty crazy as-is, but I get a tingly feeling just thinking of the AWD hardware they'd use to put 700 horsepower to all four wheels. And how awesome it would be to tow my ski-doos to 60mph in 4 seconds. Doesn't chryler's idiocy of putting the exhaust dead center on (the SRT8 GC) kinda preclude the ability of towing?
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Mar 6, 2015 13:24
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Soooo, new Honda CTR. 306 turbocharged horsepower, 0-60 in 5.7, 167 MPH top speed, thirty thousand dollar price tag. Ugly as balls, or ugly as balls? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FEOLGvHdDE
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Mar 6, 2015 13:34
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Taco Box posted:Doesn't chryler's idiocy of putting the exhaust dead center on (the SRT8 GC) kinda preclude the ability of towing? That was the old one. The new one has the exhaust in the normal position. Powershift posted:With regards to the ZF 8 speed Dodge is sticking in their RWD stuff. It turns out they kept the terrible car features in the truck. "Lifetime" fluid that goes dark after towing, a plastic pan that is also the filter that is also $460 from a Canadian dealer. It also takes 10 quarts of 40 dollar a quart unicorn horn oil.  The dealer might be quoting the upper range of retail price. Anyway what's the typical service interval on a trans filter/fluid, 60k miles? I doubt it's a big enough issue for most people.
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Mar 6, 2015 13:57
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Dealers matrix price like motherfuckers especially to counter customers. List price means jack poo poo. I know of a dealer that prices counter parts at 2.1x list.
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Mar 6, 2015 14:27
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Sigma X posted:Soooo, new Honda CTR. 306 turbocharged horsepower, 0-60 in 5.7, 167 MPH top speed, thirty thousand dollar price tag. Ugly as balls, or ugly as balls? quote:The mean front end, splitter and the vents down the side channel air down the side of the car for a more planted stance... I'm sorry mate but what you said doesn't make any sense. Also who the gently caress designed this thing? It gets uglier every year. The rear arches in particular are a crime against car design.
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Mar 6, 2015 14:31
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