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A good landing is one that everyone walks away from. An excellent landing won't need the engineers 
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Mar 7, 2015 14:39
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My quest for my instrument rating has been slowed by home remodeling and packing. Not a happy camper, but today is going to be a day of touch and go's. Also booked some instructor time for stall and spin training
Tide fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Mar 7, 2015 |
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Mar 7, 2015 15:23
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A good landing has a point of touchdown, a bad landing has a point of impact.
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Mar 7, 2015 21:15
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KodiakRS posted:A good landing has a point of touchdown, a bad landing has a point of impact. I disagree. I think UA232 was an excellent landing and it most certainly had a point of impact.
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Mar 7, 2015 21:19
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hjp766 posted:A good landing is one that everyone walks away from. An excellent landing won't need the engineers A great landing is one in which you can use the plane again. Which brings up the question of where that DL M88 fits on that scale, because I'd imagine that thing's repairable if the Mad Dog which blew the engine and fired shrapnel into the cabin at PNS in the 1990s is still flying. What would N909DL need? A new nosecone, nose gear assembly & a wingtip, along with whatever minor, hard to see on TV damage happened?
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Mar 8, 2015 04:35
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CBJSprague24 posted:What would N909DL need? A new nosecone, nose gear assembly & a wingtip, along with whatever minor, hard to see on TV damage happened? Based on the picture posted in AI - This post: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3276654&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=711#post442415551 It sure looks to me like that entire left wing is a write-off. I don't work on airplanes, so I could be wrong.
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Mar 8, 2015 05:55
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CBJSprague24 posted:A great landing is one in which you can use the plane again. The accident aircraft was built in 1987, and since the photos of the damage look like there may be damage to the main wing spar (in addition to the fuselage possibly being bent from sitting on the seawall, and having to completely replace the left wing), there's a very good chance Delta will just scrap the airframe. American and Allegiant are the only other airlines still running the MD-80 series in the US, and seeing as American is slated to retire their MD-80's by 2018 due to age and fuel costs (Allegiant only uses the MD-80 because they're stupidly cheap used), I can't imagine Delta would spend the money to repair an airplane that's almost 30 years old and isn't terribly fuel efficient. That said, pretty much any airplane can be repaired if you throw enough money at it. Qantas had an A380 experience an uncontained engine failure in 2010 that did a substantial amount of damage to the airframe, but the aircraft was repaired anyway (which took almost two years), possibly because Qantas wanted to maintain their reputation for having never had a hull-loss for a jet powered aircraft (and I'm guessing the fact that Rolls-Royce probably paid a chunk of the bill helped too). azflyboy fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 06:37
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azflyboy posted:The accident aircraft was built in 1987, and since the photos of the damage look like there may be damage to the main wing spar (in addition to the fuselage possibly being bent from sitting on the seawall, and having to completely replace the left wing), there's a very good chance Delta will just scrap the airframe. American and Allegiant are the only other airlines still running the MD-80 series in the US, and seeing as American is slated to retire their MD-80's by 2018 due to age and fuel costs (Allegiant only uses the MD-80 because they're stupidly cheap used), I can't imagine Delta would spend the money to repair an airplane that's almost 30 years old and isn't terribly fuel efficient. Fuel economy? Age of air frame? Since when did Delta care about those factors?
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Mar 8, 2015 06:50
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http://youtu.be/Co7PgMcjdeM
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Mar 8, 2015 08:50
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azflyboy posted:(Allegiant only uses the MD-80 because they're stupidly cheap used) You're not kidding. I've heard a used MD-80 can go for as little as $2M, bordering on "Buy two, get one free!"-level. No wonder Allegiant has added piles of them, even though they've gone the Airbus route more recently.
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Mar 9, 2015 04:47
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CBJSprague24 posted:You're not kidding. I've heard a used MD-80 can go for as little as $2M, bordering on "Buy two, get one free!"-level. No wonder Allegiant has added piles of them, even though they've gone the Airbus route more recently. From a business standpoint, it makes sense for Allegiant to buy airplanes no one else wants, since you can buy a lot of jet fuel for the $40-something million price difference between a used MD-80 and a new 737. azflyboy fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 07:47
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American Airlines is now on their third cycle of saying the're going to retire the MD-80 then changing the mind once fuel prices go down. It makes me feel old, I'm about the same age as most of the mad dogs and people are starting to call them ancient.  Jealous Cow posted:I disagree. I think UA232 was an excellent landing and it most certainly had a point of impact. UA232 didn't land, it crashed. Sure it was a miraculous crash, and a legendary display of airmanship, but when you end up tumbling end over end down the runway in a ball of flame that killed over 100 people it's time to stop using the phrase "landing."
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Mar 9, 2015 19:47
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I've seen so many documentaries on TV about UAL232 and read the NTSB report and that wikipedia page tens of times. I still have to sit down and read through it every time it's posted. The sequence of events is just so fascinating to me.
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Mar 9, 2015 22:04
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Do I really need a paper copy of FAR/AIM, a brand-spanking-new E6B (they're cheap on Ebay), and the single most up-to-date textbook? I don't know if the text is basically a la college wherein a minor grammatical change merits a new edition, which you're required to buy because gently caress you that's why, or if they only issue new editions when there's real changes to the curriculum. Sidenote, if anyone wants to sell me their PPL textbook and other related stuff, I'm all ears. I just got word that the company bonus is going to happen and even if it's at the minimum, I finally have enough to start my flying lessons.
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Mar 9, 2015 22:22
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MJP posted:Do I really need a paper copy of FAR/AIM, a brand-spanking-new E6B (they're cheap on Ebay), and the single most up-to-date textbook? I don't know if the text is basically a la college wherein a minor grammatical change merits a new edition, which you're required to buy because gently caress you that's why, or if they only issue new editions when there's real changes to the curriculum. As long as you pass the exams, who cares where you got the information from.
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Mar 9, 2015 22:23
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The FAA publications are available for free, usually in both PDF and html forms from https://www.faa.gov I wouldn't use expired publications. But you don't absolutely need your own paper copies of everything.
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Mar 9, 2015 22:42
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MJP posted:Do I really need a paper copy of FAR/AIM, a brand-spanking-new E6B (they're cheap on Ebay), and the single most up-to-date textbook? I don't know if the text is basically a la college wherein a minor grammatical change merits a new edition, which you're required to buy because gently caress you that's why, or if they only issue new editions when there's real changes to the curriculum. The Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge and Airplane Flying Handbook (which cover most of what you'll need to know as a private pilot, aside from some regulations) are perfectly acceptable as PDF's, and if you can find a well organized electronic FAR/AIM, that should work just fine, as long as it's up to date. I'd advise against getting the Jeppesen private pilot textbook (or really any of their other textbooks), since they're expensive and contain basically the same information as the FAA publications, but with more fluff and pretty pictures added.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:29
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I forgot to mention. For the purposes of taking your PPL oral examination, having an up to date printed copy of the FAR/AIM, which you then bookmark with sticky tabs for the relevant sections, can be a great asset during the exam. This is the one I used: http://tinyurl.com/k3kc4rw After that, I've just utilized digital versions of everything. They're easier to search and you can put a copy on any device you own.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:39
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azflyboy posted:From a business standpoint, it makes sense for Allegiant to buy airplanes no one else wants, since you can buy a lot of jet fuel for the $40-something million price difference between a used MD-80 and a new 737. Their fleet is fascinating because it's entirely secondhand. Playing around on Planespotters, the MD-80 history yields lots of Nordic regs (going to assume SAS since they had a ton of MDs, not looking through them all), JetsGo, Midwest Express, Alaska, Aeromexico (with N-numbers) and Spirit regs. It really is the new life club for a bunch of MD-80s which would otherwise probably be in Victorville. They've only dumped a handful of MD-87s, which were from the original Midway, interestingly enough. It's Delta's "Buy Every MD-90 In Existence" strategy on a bigger scale. Their A320s are all ex-Iberia, the 757s are from the UK (Thomson), and they've picked up a handful of double overwing exit-equipped A319s, too. Is American still doing their maintenance? I seem to remember an Allegiant Mad Dog visible in the CNBC special on American where they went behind the scenes with the airline a few years ago.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:03
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azflyboy posted:I'd advise against getting the Jeppesen private pilot textbook (or really any of their other textbooks), since they're expensive and contain basically the same information as the FAA publications, but with more fluff and pretty pictures added. Personally I found the fluff and pretty pictures helped for what basically came out to the cost of a bit over an hour of flight/instructor time.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:29
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azflyboy posted:The Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge and Airplane Flying Handbook (which cover most of what you'll need to know as a private pilot, aside from some regulations) are perfectly acceptable as PDF's, and if you can find a well organized electronic FAR/AIM, that should work just fine, as long as it's up to date. At my pilot mill, we had to carry the Jeppesen Private book with us when we flew for some god drat reason. That brick in a flight bag which also carried the company ops (I never did need to know in-flight that my wings need to be 3/4 of an inch above the fold on the shirt pocket) and procedures manuals in addition to relevant things like headsets, kneeboards, checklists, and a FAR/AIM. If I have shoulder problems someday, I'm blaming them and my high school. e- I think we even had to carry the god drat Gleim with us. We also had to wear ties year-round until the school realized that a) it's hot during the Summer, b) ties were miserable to wear in the Summer, and c) everybody loosened the ties once they got in the air anyway. CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 02:39
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CBJSprague24 posted:
I'd guess Allegiant has their line maintenance either in house or done by contractors, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if their MD-80's got sent to American for heavy checks. CBJSprague24 posted:At my pilot mill, we had to carry the Jeppesen Private book with us when we flew for some god drat reason. That brick in a flight bag which also carried the company ops (I never did need to know in-flight that my wings need to be 3/4 of an inch above the fold on the shirt pocket) and procedures manuals in addition to relevant things like headsets, kneeboards, checklists, and a FAR/AIM. If I have shoulder problems someday, I'm blaming them and my high school. That's absolutely absurd, but pilot mills (and universities with flight programs) seem to have an obsession with making things "just like an airline". When I worked for UND, students had to carry the course outline, the safety policies and procedures, as well as the standardization manual for the airplane with them (which was something like 30lbs), and I'm pretty sure their policies and procedures and standardization manuals (for a 2400lb piston single) were almost the same length as the ones I carry (as a PDF on an iPad) flying for an airline now. I always felt bad for the guys instructing for the Chinese pilot mills in the Phoenix area, since they had to wear what looked like some stupidly warm uniforms in a climate that's absolutely miserable in the summer, without the benefit of usable air conditioning at low altitudes. azflyboy fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 02:44
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azflyboy posted:That's absolutely absurd, but pilot mills (and universities with flight programs) seem to have an obsession with making things "just like an airline". Thing is I'm yet to see any flying school that actually does things remotely like a real airline, even the schools that cater to airline cadets. Read and do lists for eg... the checklist in the 172 I used to teach in was longer (by a significant margin) than the one in the 737 I fly now.
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Mar 10, 2015 03:24
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azflyboy posted:
Hi, that's why I only made it one summer. I nope'd out when it was May and I got a different job offer.
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Mar 10, 2015 03:43
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PT6A posted:People on CNN, Miles O'Brien excepted, are loving retarded. When discussing Harrison Ford's forced landing: I can't even watch CNN when they talk about aviation. Related: We practiced losing the engine on departure at 800 agl in PC12 training. Made it back to the runway everytime no sweat. Not bad for a 10,000 lb glider.
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Mar 10, 2015 22:19
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AWSEFT posted:I can't even watch CNN when they talk about aviation.
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Mar 10, 2015 23:42
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Airline guys, what are some study tips you've used for Sim? I've had a hell of a time getting flows and call outs memorized during my first couple days this week. I spend a couple hours yesterday and today going over stuff in the paper tiger, but when I sit in the cockpit I freeze and can't think of a drat thing.  how do I fix this before my sim partner and instructor kill me?
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Mar 11, 2015 00:25
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Butt Reactor posted:Airline guys, what are some study tips you've used for Sim? I've had a hell of a time getting flows and call outs memorized during my first couple days this week. I spend a couple hours yesterday and today going over stuff in the paper tiger, but when I sit in the cockpit I freeze and can't think of a drat thing. Go to the bathroom take a dump and rub one out right before the sim.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:41
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Make a recording and play on repeat until you can't take it any more
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Mar 11, 2015 04:05
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Butt Reactor posted:Airline guys, what are some study tips you've used for Sim? I've had a hell of a time getting flows and call outs memorized during my first couple days this week. I spend a couple hours yesterday and today going over stuff in the paper tiger, but when I sit in the cockpit I freeze and can't think of a drat thing. When you aren't at a trainer, get a big scan of the cockpit up on your iPad or laptop or whatever and practice the flows over and over again. Every time you mess something up, even the position of one light or switch, start again. You could also try drawing out or writing out the flow, depending on which way your brain learns best. I've also found during training that sometimes I've needed to think of a logical 'trigger' to know which flow to proceed with. Eg. in the 737NG... Preliminary preflight flow begins with IRSs (since they take a while to align, so they have to come first) Preflight flow begins at top left of overhead panel Before start flow begins with doors and windows (the trigger is cabin crew calling doors closed/cabin secure and captain confirming we're clear to pressurise hydraulics) Start flow begins with packs (gotta ensure all bleed air is directed to the engines for start) After start flow begins with generators (trigger is that the engines are now running, so time to get the IDGs online so we can switch off the APU)
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Mar 11, 2015 06:05
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Butt Reactor posted:Airline guys, what are some study tips you've used for Sim? I've had a hell of a time getting flows and call outs memorized during my first couple days this week. I spend a couple hours yesterday and today going over stuff in the paper tiger, but when I sit in the cockpit I freeze and can't think of a drat thing. brendanwor posted:When you aren't at a trainer, get a big scan of the cockpit up on your iPad or laptop or whatever and practice the flows over and over again. Every time e: But more seriously... here's something I wrote in another forum: (the bit about the checklists is company-specific though) Learn the flows. And here's how it worked for me: 1. First, compartmentalize each group of switches (let's say lights, ice protection, throttle quadrant, etc.) as their own units so you can plug each one (call it an "item group") into its step of the flow. So the approach flow becomes lights; pumps; power; yaw damp; cowl flaps). 5 items, very simple, don't even worry yet about what you do with the items. They're just there and you do "something" with them. You learn the actual spatial flow of their "spots" in the cockpit, and your hand goes flying to those 5 spots as you do it. Do this until you can rattle it off without thinking. 2. Then, get more specific: lights-which ones-and do what with them?; pumps-ON; power- mixtures-THIS and props THAT; yaw damp OFF; cowl flaps DO THIS. You'll notice it'll set you back some, and you'll have to start thinking about what you're saying again. But these specific items now have the geographic "spots" already there to plug into. Do THIS until you can rattle it off without thinking. 3. Now, act out the PF and PM parts. P-what and P-who?! I thought this was single pilot! Well, you actually get fully trained in 2-pilot CRM in ALL of the airplanes. Like step 2, it'll set you back some, but again: do it until you can rattle it off without thinking. Oh, and here's a tricky part that I really wish someone had told me before I had developed so much inertia. Don't just say "and now the PM does this." There's a tricky procedure, and this is how it's done. Let's say it's a 5 item flow: "Chemtrail initiation" PF: Agent tank - SELECTED PF: Main pump - ON PF: GIS database - SELECTED/INITIALIZED PM: Boom valve - ON PM: Timer - HACKED The PF does his 3 items, then calls for "Chemtrail initiation checklist," then the PM does his 2 items, and THEN starts the written checklist. (Keep in mind the flows and checklists for each equivalent event aren't necessarily the same. There are items in the flow and not the checklist, there are items in the checklist and not the flow, and there items in both that are in different order. Still think you can catch up on your flows "on the fly?") It really tripped me up since I had been practicing with a simple "and now, PM" mental marker, but now that a "checklist" started getting called with items of the flow still remaining before the actual checklist started, it kept throwing me into the wrong spot and my mind would do a ground loop each time. So practice them with the full sequence, and delineate when you're playing each character separately. All the while, any time you add a new element, performance suffers and you speed back up as the flow gets re-burned into your brain in the new environment. First, I did it all just by visualizing the cockpit and putting my hand in the right spot. The benefit is that with this, you can do it in lots of environments with new distractions. You can do it while driving, while making GBS threads, while walking down the sidewalk, while carrying moving boxes down the stairs... Every new one would make me take a bit of a hit but then I enjoyed catching back up and knowing that I have it that much more solidly. But then, I started doing it in front of the paper tiger they sent in the mail and instead of getting easier, it got a bit harder. Then I caught up. Then, instead of doing the flows in the correct sequence for a normal flight, I did them out of order. I learned to get away from the dependence on the reminder from the previous flow, and having to come into each one "fresh." Then, to increase the startle/distraction factor, I gave the flashcards (which I'd stopped using long ago, pretty much by the time I'd finished making them) to my girlfriend and had her mix them up and surprise me with one or two randomly, on the spot, throughout the day. I slowed down, then I caught up. vessbot fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 20:56
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vessbot posted:"Chemtrail initiation" I freaking knew it!!!! 
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Mar 11, 2015 21:10
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e.pilot posted:Is there anything the PC12 can't do? drat Butt Reactor posted:Airline guys, what are some study tips you've used for Sim? I've had a hell of a time getting flows and call outs memorized during my first couple days this week. I spend a couple hours yesterday and today going over stuff in the paper tiger, but when I sit in the cockpit I freeze and can't think of a drat thing. vessbot posted:"Chemtrail initiation" AWSEFT fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Mar 12, 2015 |
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Mar 12, 2015 01:18
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AWSEFT posted:
I'll second (or third) what these folks said. I spent a ton of my free time during indoc and systems going through flows on the paper tiger, and learning the cues I'd see from the captain (since almost all of our FO flows begin or continue once the captain does something like release the parking brake or sets the control lock) also helped me get a sense of when to run a given flow. Another thing that helped me was to come up with mnemonics or some other way to simplify what I was doing on some flows. As an example, climbing through 10,000ft, the PM's flow is "Cabin Chime: press, Pressurization: check, Exterior Lights: set, Windshield heat: Norm", which I remember as "Ladies, Leaks, Lights, Heat".
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Mar 12, 2015 02:10
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Today went slightly betterAWSEFT posted:Checklist responses along with the flow. Are you and your sim partner working together on the paper tiger? Today went slightly better, but still royally hosed up things like programming the FMS and managing emergencies. This morning we spent a good 2-3 hours going over flows and callouts before sim. A current FO helped out and it made a difference, but I think the problem now is keeping up with the aircraft. We did several ILS approaches to my home airport (I'm well familiar with the layout and frequencies) but ended up either high, misconfigured, or some other idiocy leading to bent metal  Is it unusual to have FO-FO pairings during sim training rather than CA-FO?
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Mar 12, 2015 03:18
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Today went slightly betterAWSEFT posted:Checklist responses along with the flow. Are you and your sim partner working together on the paper tiger? Today went slightly better, but still royally hosed up things like programming the FMS and managing emergencies. This morning we spent a good 2-3 hours going over flows and callouts before sim. A current FO helped out and it made a difference, but I think the problem now is keeping up with the aircraft. We did several ILS approaches to my home airport (I'm well familiar with the layout and frequencies) but ended up either high, misconfigured, or some other idiocy leading to bent metal Is it unusual to have FO-FO pairings during sim training rather than CA-FO?
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Mar 12, 2015 03:27
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[quote="Butt Reactor" post=""442627467"] Is it unusual to have FO-FO pairings during sim training rather than CA-FO? [/quote] The pairings generally depend on how many new hires and upgrades are In each class, as well as how a particular training department decides to run things. I went through most of my sim training with another FO, but for the last few lessons (which work like normal lime flights), I was paired up with captains who were sitting on reserve and got called in for sim support. I can sympathize with struggling with FMS programming, since those things generally aren't terribly user friendly, and making changes to things like flight plans (especially on the fly) can be a pain until you've used the box enough that most of the common tasks become automatic, and you start to figure out the logic (or lack thereof) the manufacturer used. One thing that really helped someone who struggled with the FMS in my class was spending some time on an FMS trainer (basically a software emulator for the FMS and autopilot), since it provided a chance to just run through various scenarios with the FMS and build those skills without the time pressure of the sim.
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Mar 12, 2015 04:20
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Butt Reactor posted:Today went slightly better, but still royally hosed up things like programming the FMS and managing emergencies. This morning we spent a good 2-3 hours going over flows and callouts before sim. A current FO helped out and it made a difference, but I think the problem now is keeping up with the aircraft. We did several ILS approaches to my home airport (I'm well familiar with the layout and frequencies) but ended up either high, misconfigured, or some other idiocy leading to bent metal Make sure you've got the procedures for approaches memorised (should be in your FCTM). There ought to be specific locations in a standard approach that you configure (eg. ILS in the 737, gear down flaps 15/speedbrake armed/missed approach alt set at GS alive, landing flap/landing checklist at GS capture). Wouldn't say it's unusual to have FO-FO pairings - I don't think it's ideal either, though the justification I've always been given is that 'you're supposed to know the Captain's responsibilities and procedures anyway'.
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Mar 12, 2015 04:30
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It sounds like we're in similar spots as I get into actually flying the T-45 for the first time (first flight was Monday  ). What's helped me a lot was, like others said, practice and repetitiveness on the checklists so that I know them cold and don't need to waste brainpower remembering them. As far as keeping up with the airplane goes, sitting there and chair-flying exactly what I'm going to do helps me a lot. Before the flight I'll sit there and talk myself through the departure, high work, and approach in as close to real-time as I can (use a clock with a second hand), all the checklists and maneuvers, until I know what I'm doing cold. And not just "level off now" but "okay 200 feet prior, back stick, check the airspeed for power application, capture 5 degrees nose high, 1100pph on the fuel flow, nose up trim, trim, trim" on the level of detail. After the event I'll remember what I screwed up on and make notes to drive my focus on those parts of the event for the next go-around.As far as FMS stuff goes, do you have access to an FMS trainer of any kind? For me the biggest stumbling block was finding how to get to the pages I want from the page I'm at. Sitting there and finding all the different ways to go from A -> B (and there's almost always more than one) paid dividends for me. Again the less I have to think about FMS operation, the more I can focus on basic air work, comms, emergencies, partial panel scanning, etc. I don't know if that's helpful or not given that I'm not in the airline world (teeny jets whee) and I'm training more towards a single-piloted mentality. Repetition helps, screwing up helps too honestly, I find it helps me focus my study more, as long as I don't fail an event... It must be working because I'm getting good grades? e: beaten on the FMS trainer thing. Seriously just spend a few hours dicking around with it, it'll pay off.
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Mar 12, 2015 04:33
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Is this on the A&P checklist?npr posted:In Kathmandu, interested observers are waiting to see whether TIA will again take an approach that it used in 2007 to fix a technical problem with a Nepal Airlines Boeing 757. At that time, airline officials sacrificed two goats in front of the aircraft to appease Akash Bhairab, the Hindu sky god, and then declared the aircraft was ready to resume flying.
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Mar 13, 2015 02:12
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