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Trynant posted:I don't really think the mechanics overload is inherently bad, so there's most likely bias with what I'm about to say. The first play of Argent I had I couldn't tell if it all its mechanics came together into something worthwhile or was just a mess of ideas crushed together. After a few plays I'm confident there is a richness here that does benefit from its complexity. There was already the point made of INT and WIS counters having a reason for being separate. As I recall though, you've got a high tolerance for that sort of thing... I know you like Vihnos and I'd rather eat a skunk corpse than play that game. It would also really help if I had a playgroup where I could be sure somebody wouldn't take 5 minute turns and drag the game down.
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Mar 8, 2015 22:51
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Paper Clip Death posted:I'm thinking of getting Archipelago. I've seen it mentioned several times in this thread and it seems to be well regarded. My friends and I tend to go for more non-confrontational games, which usually means co-op. We're open to all kinds of games though, provided it doesn't take a week to learn the rules. I don't think it is number-crunchy at all, though. It could be AP-exacerbating, depending on the AP-prone person. It is not a game of out-calculating your opponents, seeing five moves ahead, et cetera, except to the extent that your opponents' moves may reveal their hidden objectives -- the changing balance of the archipelago/crises, changing markets, and disappearing evolution cards mean you just can't do that much advance planning. On the other hand, when you are just learning the game, there is a massive amount of uncertainty regarding what, exactly, you're even supposed to be doing on your turns. The game does a good job of guiding your through its obvious things on the first playthrough: "Hey, I get stuff when I explore, maybe I should do some more of that." "Holy cow, these crises can be bad, sure helps to have resources around." "Hey, I get more stuff when I harvest resources directly, and that seems more reliable than exploration is, now that it's harder to place new tiles." "Hey, I could work the markets a lot better if I had a port or a marketplace. I'ma work for that." "Ooh, temples help with unrest?" Subtleties of the population and employment tracks will be more apparent on plays that are not your first one. Archipelago is an excellent game.
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Mar 8, 2015 22:55
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Trynant posted:I don't really think the mechanics overload is inherently bad, so there's most likely bias with what I'm about to say. The first play of Argent I had I couldn't tell if it all its mechanics came together into something worthwhile or was just a mess of ideas crushed together. After a few plays I'm confident there is a richness here that does benefit from its complexity. There was already the point made of INT and WIS counters having a reason for being separate. I really liked it when I played yesterday. We had a bit of a time constraint so we played pretty fast and no-one APed, but I see how it could be really bad with that. I can already think of a few people I would never want to play it with. We could have played better but really, the game takes up so much table space and no one really wanted to walk over and read all the cards on the other players side of the table. One thing that was really bad was the player colours and the mage figures themselves. The mages are coloured after mage type, not player colour, they all sit on the same bronze/gold base and then you put a piece of cardboard of your colour into the base. Would be much better if the bases where player coloured, didn't help that my opponents where dark grey and light grey. I was red I think but it was more like brown. Also, I'm still missing 1 card from Legendary Encounters: An Alien Deck Building Game could anyone check theirs and give me the text for the first objective card for the last move? the card is called breakout, would be really nice. Making a proxy for it. Sistergodiva fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 22:57
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What is AP?
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Mar 8, 2015 23:05
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Anal pus
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Mar 8, 2015 23:06
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Bottom Liner posted:What is AP? Analysis Paralysis
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Mar 8, 2015 23:07
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Acquired Eminent Domain with expansion. Played 3 games back to back and going to play a fourth. We've had to look up clarification on a lot of things on the Internet, but the game owns. Thanks goons
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Mar 8, 2015 23:10
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Sistergodiva posted:Analysis Paralysis Which, in case you don't know what that means, is basically when players have enough options that seem useful that they just freeze up and can't decide, or just take forever to make their decision. The threshold for AP changes from person to person and can dissolve over time with mastery of a game's systems, but there's definitely certain things designers can do to curb AP before it starts.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:15
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Sistergodiva posted:Also, I'm still missing 1 card from Legendary Encounters: An Alien Deck Building Game could anyone check theirs and give me the text for the first objective card for the last move? the card is called breakout, would be really nice. Making a proxy for it. Objective: Kill three Xenomorph Clones. Event: They've Escaped If there are any Enemies in the Complex, move them to the Combat Zone. Add a Hive card to The Complex. (Add the Hive card even if there were no enemies in The Complex)
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Mar 8, 2015 23:18
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Bottom Liner posted:What is AP? It's what 'thinking about what to do on your turn' becomes at around the one minute mark.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:24
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Scyther posted:Objective: Kill three Xenomorph Clones. Thanks a lot! What do you think about the game? I've only played it twice, with 2 players, the first movie only. We gave ourselves a extra turn before we started moving the hive the second time we played and won by knives edge. I really like it so far, can't wait to play it with more players.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:26
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Zombie #246 posted:Does anyone know where I can get the Mage Knight Lost Legion Vassal Module? I cannot seem to locate it. For whatever reason, the author doesn't release it publicly. You have to contact him directly on BGG and ask him to email you a link to the latest version. I have a link from a few months ago, which I think is still the most recent version, but you might want to check with him directly.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:28
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goodness posted:I don't think he can explain that usage, probably won't respond to you or the other 6 people that said the same. Sloober posted:That's a really strange word to refer to Dominion as. I'm curious why you think it's bloated as well. Lottery of Babylon posted:What exactly do you mean by "bloated"? Do you mean "I don't like this game, why would they make expansions for a game I dislike", or do you actually think the mechanics are bloated somehow? silvergoose posted:First time I've heard Dominion called bloated! What makes you say that? Lottery of Babylon posted:What exactly do you mean by "bloated"? Do you mean "I don't like this game, why would they make expansions for a game I dislike", or do you actually think the mechanics are bloated somehow? I believe, if my rough math is right, there are 2700 cards or so not including the stand alone game. My brother in-law, who sometimes joins my regular group or sets up a game night with the in-laws, has every expansions. And the fucker wants to use all of them every time. That is WAY to long for a "family" game night and it irks that anyone would even think to do that. Now my general dislike for the game is not solely with that, or him wanting to use so many drat cards, and I feel that the game is a good intro to gaming sorta game. I just feel that the game is to basic. i like some form of interaction with other players personally. I am a big fan of Warmachine High Command as it is basically Dominion with interaction in terms of fighting over land too with the units you buy. I enjoy that added layer. When I was introduced to Dominion I didn't mind it. I didn't think it was the greatest game ever. It was a fun enough deck building game but I like more meat in my games. That is my issue with it. Crackbone posted:Thunderstone is a not a good game. It's got a lot of flaws, I'll just link this review which I think covers it pretty well: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/713323/i-wanted-love-it-it-left-me-disappointed I'll read through the review. Someone has Star Realms and its not terrible....see's the occasional table time depending on how many people show up. I'll check out the other ones because I see them talked about a lot. Thanks Pascallion posted:I enjoyed Thunderstone for several plays, but it eventually became a slog (much longer than dominion and not trying to offer anything more, just something a little different). There is a great chance it may become a slog for us at some point. We don't tend to overplay any games anymore and try to have a solid rotation of "classic" games we enjoy and new ones. This tends to keep games a little fresher for us. We somewhat lucked out because so many of us buy new games to try so there is always something new to try or to kinda refresh us with. Tiny Chalupa fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 23:31
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Tiny Chalupa posted:My brother in-law, who sometimes joins my regular group or sets up a game night with the in-laws, has every expansions. And the fucker wants to use all of them every time. That is WAY to long for a "family" game night and it irks that anyone would even think to do that. The rules say to use 10 cards, not 2700. Hope that helps.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:42
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Sistergodiva posted:Thanks a lot! My schedule's been hectic so I've only been able to play the first movie once with 2 players, but we enjoyed it a lot. We made some rules mistakes to our benefit and won easily, but so it goes with first games.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:44
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jeeves posted:I know Munchkin is kind of eyeroll for most board game veterans, but my wife really liked the idea of buying the Adventure Time version. Anyone know any good rule modifications to make the game like snappier and less drag on for loving forever like most Munchkin games? I'm worried she'll absolutely hate it the first time she tries playing it. There was a good house rule posted a few pages back that might "heat up" your game of Munchkin. It will be snappier, it will also crackle and pop  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQj1IItrsQw Zombie #246 posted:Does anyone know where I can get the Mage Knight Lost Legion Vassal Module? I cannot seem to locate it. Here you go, I have no idea where I found it so I just rehosted it: https://www.mediafire.com/?rza2ex8hej12vol
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Mar 8, 2015 23:47
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Tiny Chalupa posted:My brother in-law, who sometimes joins my regular group or sets up a game night with the in-laws, has every expansions. And the fucker wants to use all of them every time. That is WAY to long for a "family" game night and it irks that anyone would even think to do that.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:47
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Countblanc posted:Which, in case you don't know what that means, is basically when players have enough options that seem useful that they just freeze up and can't decide, or just take forever to make their decision. The threshold for AP changes from person to person and can dissolve over time with mastery of a game's systems, but there's definitely certain things designers can do to curb AP before it starts. I think the worst kind of AP is in arithmetic heavy vp games, where you know if you do the arithmetic and compare a bunch of nearly equivalent options, you might be able to eek out 8 vp instead of 7. I mean, if you do that every turn, you're going to win, but it seems like it's more an exercise in basic mathematics and patience rather than being more clever than your opponents.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:50
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Tiny Chalupa posted:if my rough math is right, there are 2700 cards or so not including the stand alone game. There is only about 250 unique cards in Dominion (including all expansions) total. It's not bloated if anything it is anemic.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:50
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Poison Mushroom posted:And thus, you expose yourself as someone who's clearly never actually played Dominion. To set up, you pick ten sets of identical cards as your 'kingdoms'. Using all expansions just means widening the base from which to take cards from. Aside from the 'picking which cards to use' portion (which can be done pretty much instantly with an app), it doesn't really add anything to the playtime at all. Your right I've never played Dominion. I simply made that post for no other reason to rile people up. The using all of the cards thing meant that he wants to go through them all to figure out which 10 he wants. And wants to play over and over and over again so he can use as many of his shiney new cards, or combos he read about, as he can. We have never actually setup all of the cards to play. I have something around probably 40+ plays of Dominion because it is, as I've said, a great intro game to gaming. I enjoy that about it. But it is not a game I would break out to play with a established gamer group or friends. We even have 2 copies of it somewhere I am sure. I am not a fan of playing the same game over and over. My idea of a great game night is trying multiple games with only one or two getting more than one playthourhg.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:52
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Countblanc posted:Which, in case you don't know what that means, is basically when players have enough options that seem useful that they just freeze up and can't decide, or just take forever to make their decision. The threshold for AP changes from person to person and can dissolve over time with mastery of a game's systems, but there's definitely certain things designers can do to curb AP before it starts. I have a very good buddy who suffers from this something terrible. It's gotten to the point that some nights we go out of our way to NOT pick any game that has a lot of choices because for the love of all that is Holy he WILL take 10+ minutes a turn EVERY SINGLE TIME. He is also terrible to play miniature games with or any sort of paper and pen game as he will always need to consult everything. Even if he only has say 2 spells. He has to always double check what they both do.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:54
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I think Go sucks because I sometimes play with my brother in law and my brother in law likes to get drunk and piss on the table
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Mar 8, 2015 23:55
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Dominion is not only incredibly elegant, it also provides a significantly deeper experience than Thunderstone and the rest of the "me-too!" deckbuilders that followed so quickly after Dominion, because the "added layers" are marshmallow fluff with no real substance. Most of them are comparatively poorly playtested, which leads to poor balance and degenerate strategies. Combine that with all the bullshit randomness the designers insist on throwing in and the overall result is less actual depth of play compared to Dominion. 
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Mar 8, 2015 23:55
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Scyther posted:Dominion is not only incredibly elegant, it also provides a significantly deeper experience than Thunderstone and the rest of the "me-too!" deckbuilders that followed so quickly after Dominion, because the "added layers" are marshmallow fluff with no real substance. Most of them are comparatively poorly playtested, which leads to poor balance and degenerate strategies. Combine that with all the bullshit randomness the designers insist on throwing in and the overall result is less actual depth of play compared to Dominion. More mechanics = more depth, this I know
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Mar 8, 2015 23:58
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Scyther posted:Dominion is not only incredibly elegant, it also provides a significantly deeper experience than Thunderstone and the rest of the "me-too!" deckbuilders that followed so quickly after Dominion, because the "added layers" are marshmallow fluff with no real substance. Most of them are comparatively poorly playtested, which leads to poor balance and degenerate strategies. Combine that with all the bullshit randomness the designers insist on throwing in and the overall result is less actual depth of play compared to Dominion. I'm curious if you've tried High Command as everyone that I know who has played it has rather enjoyed the game.
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Mar 9, 2015 00:00
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I think Go sucks because I sometimes play with my brother in law and my brother in law likes to get drunk and piss on the table Wish my brother in law played Go.  edit: he plays Catan
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Mar 9, 2015 00:09
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Tiny Chalupa posted:I'm curious if you've tried High Command as everyone that I know who has played it has rather enjoyed the game. I didn't think much of high command, after repeated plays the whole war aspect pares down to being not much similar from a combo of cards in Dominion, and the fact you can get the majority of VPs from your own market deck somewhat cuts the interactivity of it. Two resources as used in high command seems one too many since you're only working with 5, or 6 cards in a hand and some units will cost you half or all of those to deploy to stop someone from taking a location. It ends up turning into trading location captures and the game being decided on by your purchased VPs.
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Mar 9, 2015 00:17
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You have to buy the Castle of the Keys expansion or the Invasion of Sul expansion (depending on whether or not you bought the Hordes or WM base set) so that you can replace the Location and Winds of War cards from the base. Then High Command becomes a decent game if you have some people to play against regularly.
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Mar 9, 2015 00:22
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The Issue at release, IMHO, was that certain factions like Khador excelled at that tactic. If there were more than 3 players they could almost always sit back and simply buy VP's while the other players fought to death. A few expansions, being a LCG, and the more recent Castle of Keys and Invasion of Sul did a TON to alleviate that. With different Winds of Wars and other factions not only catching up in terms of great VP cards if someone wants to just race for them but also more varied cards to apply pressure in other ways. Seeing a Khador playing to sit back and still just VP snipe now is a wonderful site if your playing someone like Cryx. You can grab VP's, if you've tweaked your deck some, and also rush cheap people out forcing the Khador player to start at least trying to contest with token units or the gap becomes to much for them to overcome.
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Mar 9, 2015 00:38
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Dominion is the only game I know of that can cause AP during setup.
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Mar 9, 2015 00:57
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Tiny Chalupa posted:Your right I've never played Dominion. I simply made that post for no other reason to rile people up. It's not your purported misspeaking that tells people you've never played Dominion. If you had ever played it, you'd know that the card pool is arranged in stacks of the same card. Including promos, there are exactly 207 different stacks to put in a kingdom. So when you talk about Dominion as having 2700 cards, it's rather obvious that you don't have a loving clue what you're talking about and just added up the number of cards listed as components in each box.
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Mar 9, 2015 01:03
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Is there a list if design decisions that can affect AP, positively or negatively? Some things, like drawing cards at the start of your turn, are obviously bad, but I am sure there are done other mechanics that can reduce AP while maintaining depth. Is anyone going to uk games expo? I am thinking of heading down but the Hilton seems expensive.
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Mar 9, 2015 01:04
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Instead of hand-picking each kingdom card, your brother-in-law should probably use a randomizer app a few times until he sees a kingdom set-up that looks fun. Probably would be faster that way. There's nothing wrong with not liking Dominion. It's definitely a game you can get burned out with after playing it a lot, and set up can be a pain. Though despite that it's still probably my all-time favorite board game, and I've still yet to see a deckbuilder come close to what Dominion pulls off with its design.
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Mar 9, 2015 01:08
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Mega64 posted:There's nothing wrong with not liking Dominion. The pages long dogpile whenever anyone says they don't would seem to imply otherwise. \/\/ thread title! JoshTheStampede fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 01:11
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There is everything wrong with not liking Dominion, and I will prove it
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Mar 9, 2015 01:11
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CancerCakes posted:Is there a list if design decisions that can affect AP, positively or negatively? Some things, like drawing cards at the start of your turn, are obviously bad, but I am sure there are done other mechanics that can reduce AP while maintaining depth. Generalizing from "don't draw a card at the start of your turn" -- the more thinking you can get done during other players' turns, the better. It's fine if your plans are sometimes upset slightly by your right-hand opponent's action (e.g. they put their worker where you wanted to go) and on rare occasions upset greatly (e.g. they broke their alliance with you and are invading your home system), but for the most part the game state shouldn't be so chaotic that plans you make during your opponents' turns are usually horribly outdated by the time your turn comes around. Cut down on technically-public-but-not-very-useful information. If there's no compelling reason to let players paw through the entire discard pile, don't let them. JoshTheStampede posted:The pages long dogpile whenever anyone says they don't would seem to imply otherwise. If you say you don't like Dominion because of the "bloat" then yeah you'll get dogpiled because that doesn't even make sense. You'd see people dogpiling someone who didn't like Arkham Horror if their reasoning were "The game ends too quickly, I'm not really into light filler games."
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Mar 9, 2015 01:16
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JoshTheStampede posted:The pages long dogpile whenever anyone says they don't would seem to imply otherwise. I don't like dominion. Too much shuffling. Deck building is best used as a mechanic within a larger game, in which case it's slightly too large and cumbersome to make an elegant game (mage knight) or best optimized in an app that takes all the poo poo out of your hands.
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Mar 9, 2015 01:22
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Edit removing poo poo that isn't constructive at all On a more serious note thanks for saying there is an app. I'll pass that on to my brother in-law as I believe I only have the base game and my buddy has maybe 1 expansion. So we've never struggled for setup like he does Tiny Chalupa fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 02:04
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You don't even need an app, the game comes with an extra blue-backed copy of each card that exist solely for you to use to randomize the kingdoms by shuffling them and drawing ten. And if you have 200+ different kingdom cards, you don't even need to shuffle the randomizers more than once every 20 games, so there's no setup time lost there either. Your brother in law isn't spending forty minutes setting up the game because he doesn't know there are other options available, he's doing it because he's an rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:14
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If he stores all his Dominion expansions in the original boxes while choosing cards at random from all sets at once that will also greatly increase setup time. There are around 2700* better setup/storage methods and he should find one that works for him.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:23
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