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blackguy32 posted:Why was it hated so much? The gameplay was regressive and it didn't live up to its predecessor. It's an above average game by itself, I remember it being flawed but enjoyable on the Xbox.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:21
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Volt Catfish posted:I don't think it's even possible to mod Invivisble War because of how it was coded. You can change how much damage enemies and you do via an .ini file, but that's really it.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:21
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blackguy32 posted:Why was it hated so much? The engine sucks, tiny maps. Awful, console-y interface. Long loading times. On PC the client restarts when you zone. Universal ammo is a really dumb idea. One storytelling gimmick is used over and over. You choose to work for one of two competing sides, then later you find both have the same master. No skills. Much less augs, and you get so many aug canisters you don't need to pick and choose. Dumbed down overall.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:45
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Gynovore posted:The engine sucks, tiny maps. The last one isn't that much of a difference from Deus Ex since there are so many useless augs that whatever you pick is a no brainer anyhow. But yeah, I can see how many people wouldn't like it.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:48
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I at least appreciate that they stayed true to the spirit of DX's combat by keeping the pistol as the most effective weapon in the game.
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Mar 9, 2015 03:06
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I'm not even sure the map thing really works anymore. Sure, Liberty Isle, and Hell's Kitchen were pretty big. And there was a few medium sized levels like La Guardia/Germany. But most of Deus Ex 1 was small cramped buildings separated by loading screens. They were just much better placed, and much harder to notice, as only a few zones were large enough to justify having two loading screens separating them. Even then though, the larger levels had several loading screens between them, with Liberty Isle rightfully being called a miracle of engineering for NOT needing a loading screen unless you entered the bunker/statue proper. Invisible War likewise has a few larger levels like the Mako Facility or again Liberty Isle, with a few decent sized levels sprinkled throughout. The bigger sin isn't the level size, it's that at the time it lacked Deus Ex's almost instant level loads on the console, instead adding in level loads that could easily last over a minute. On PCs of the time this was far less of a problem, but nowadays you have to deal with system related issues ( it wasn't built for modern machines. ). The only areas map size is OBVIOUSLY strained is the open world areas like Seattle or Egypt, because they had to link in 5-10ish actual mission zones to that area, and give 2-3 entry ways for each mission zone. Many people say the level size hampers the element of choice, but that's also somewhat bunk. Like Deus Ex proper, you can find a vent/ledge/stack of boxes/whatever off in the corner and jump your way up to the next area just fine, you'll just be met with a loading screen halfway through it. You have as many options as you did back in Deus Ex, if not more in a few scenarios as Assault/Bust In actually work, as the guns don't react like rear end without skill/Augs are more powerful/Energy is slightly more plentiful. Outside of that I'd say a lot of the "problems" end up being good advancements that HR ended up refining/were praised when it came out. You could take a few more hits, so you weren't a super soldier that instantly dies if a thug took a potshot at you like in the original Deus Ex. Energy was far more plentiful, so you could actually use your Augs in combat without spamming energy cells/candy bars. Guns worked out of the gate without the need to level up a skill to fire them, making each of the guns useful in any given situation ( again, unlike Deus Ex were if you went Pistol, well, gently caress the other guns I guess. ). Yeah they took out a lot of bad augs/skills, but only because they were dump augs/skills back in Deus Ex that nobody ever had any reason to choose anyway. Even better the variety of things you could do improved. You find a rifle that shoots through walls, and can eventually upgrade your eyesight to see through all the walls in a level. You can buy spiderbot grenades now, which create little spiderbots that help you. Except you also have an aug that gives you control of robots. So you can toss down the spiderbot, take it over, then sneak into a higher level and use it to take out enemy patrols/a bot/whatever was in your way. They gave you far more high tech equipment in the environment to play with as well. It's a game that you'll notice is straining against it's own tech the entire time, but it's not bad because of it. Lesser then it could have been maybe, but not really ever "bad". It's just a game that came out 1-2 years after most of the tech/ways of hiding bad tech were considered outdated, and it was significant enough you could tell it was holding them back from making a "true" sequel to Deus Ex. Add in a bit of angsty nerds throwing fits they removed useless poo poo from the engine because it didn't need to be 1:1 with PnP systems anymore, as well as a hefty amount of anger over it being a console game as well, and well, it was a bit of a firestorm that many people never really forgave them for.
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Mar 9, 2015 03:12
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In the event of another Deus Ex game the XP system needs an overhaul. Say, You get XP for completing missions. You don't get XP for fighting random enemies. You get XP for exploring far-off corners of the map. You don't get XP for going Ghost or Pacifist on a mission, unless asked for by the mission-giver. You get XP for opening a big important looking safe safe with either a password, frag mine or by hacking it, doesn't matter which way. You don't get XP for hacking every computer in the office/floor/complex. That's pretty much how they did it in the original Deus Ex, Vampire Bloodlines, Mass Effect 2, and the upcoming Pillars of Eternity. It helps if XP rewarded is playstyle-neutral, which encourages players to mix up their approach since there's no nagging indicator that going pacifist gives you an extra ten points. It's also easier for the designer to balance a game with fixed XP and no opportunity to grind. Inspector Gesicht fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 03:24
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The reason you use the pistol almost exclusively in IW isn't because it's the best all around weapon (and it wasn't even the case in the original game anyway), it's because it consumes the least amount of universal ammo per shot, which lets you pace your consumption. In a normal game, overusing high powered weapons like the sniper rifle or rocket launcher means you'll be out of sniper bullets or rockets, so you'll have to fall back to weaker weapons. In IW, it means you're out of ammo for ALL your guns. Unless you're using a guide or replaying through the game, you have no way of knowing when the next ammo pickup or what the next encounter will be, so unless you fancy the possibility of having to melee bots or whatever, you'll just use the pistol as much as you can.
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Mar 9, 2015 03:47
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FactsAreUseless posted:Yeah, the inside of that closet would be so well-lit, the sounds of fighting outside so fully realized. Wait, Paul can't die during that segment? ... 
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Mar 9, 2015 03:50
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Paul only dies if you leave through the window, because you leave it open and he gets a cold.
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Mar 9, 2015 04:01
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Suspicious posted:The reason you use the pistol almost exclusively in IW isn't because it's the best all around weapon (and it wasn't even the case in the original game anyway), it's because it consumes the least amount of universal ammo per shot, Yeah this. Universal ammo was an astonishingly dumb idea. I remember there was one gun in which the alt-fire nano-assembles a mini spiderbot for you. This in itself is a really cool idea, except that it consumed a massive amount of ammo, making it unusable. A dude posted:Wait, Paul can't die during that segment? Once the MiB barge in, Paul is coded to be invincible, so the 'correct' thing to do is to hide in the closet.
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Mar 9, 2015 04:12
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I once had this weird bug where once he left the apartment to fight dudes in the lobby, he would vanish if I wasn't looking directly at him.
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Mar 9, 2015 04:18
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Gynovore posted:Once the MiB barge in, Paul is coded to be invincible, so the 'correct' thing to do is Come on, live a little 
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Mar 9, 2015 04:23
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or prod the MIB with the autoshotgun and take his sweet goodies, then proceed to hide in the closet.
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Mar 9, 2015 04:40
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With copious gas grenades, and a little bit of gumption, you too can non-lethally subdue the attacking force. The trick is letting Paul damage them so they are easier to knock out.
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Mar 9, 2015 04:43
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Fuschia tude posted:The wiki says that destroying a camera nullifies the award, yes. Interestingly, the EMP grenade is OK. blackguy32 posted:Why was it hated so much? Gynovore posted:The engine sucks, tiny maps. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 05:05
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Rookersh posted:I'm not even sure the map thing really works anymore. Nah. The problem with smaller levels is the lack of continuity. Enemies can't pursue past a load line, for example. It's more difficult to have consequences between areas, and that leaves less room for emergent gameplay, even ignoring the unholy lovely loading for a game that's somehow uglier than the original, which is not winning any beauty pageants. Modern machines can take a whole minute to load up a level transition, which is remarkable in many, many ways. The universal ammo has already been covered, so I'll move past that to the many other issues. The weapon feel was poo poo for the most part, enemy health balance was out of whack to the point where a maxed out laser sword, on easy, couldn't one hit kill schoolchildren. Then, that's not a surprise for a game where it took a patch before they added in headshots. Plus, the way weapon damage was set up, enemies with pistols were barely irritants on realistic, while enemies with sniper rifles could kill you in seconds on easy. Deus Ex and HR were both tuned so that anyone with a weapon could drop you in a hurry on the harder difficulties unless you had shields up, making every enemy relevant and encouraging the tactical approach. Invisible War made most enemies irrelevant, and that made those encounters deeply boring. The augs were set up so respeccing heavily penalized you, which combined with the game giving you enough to max out halfway through meant the game's progression was hosed. As for the plot? The plot had the problem of rubbing your face in how your choices don't matter. Your choices becoming irrelevant is pretty much universal, but compare to, say, Mass Effect. There, everyone talks about how big an impact doing X instead of Y has. You get an email later about how your actions CHANGED THE WORLD. It's all smoke and mirrors, obvious on a replay, but it distracts. Meanwhile, IW goes out of its way to trumpet how, say, both factions you could choose between in a mission were the same all along, or how Billie keeps going for the greater of two evils, crap, what is her PROBLEM? And that's on top of the raw character writing being mostly bad. I mean, Alex D doesn't have one good line I can think of. Sure, the original's line readings could be... unique, but they were memorable, and a few were even good. IW even had worse datacubes. Frankenstein instead of "The Man Who Was Thursday" should be enough on that count. IW was a mediocre-to-bad game, and everything it did right was done better by HR, the original, or Dishonored. Add in the load times, and it's just not worth playing.
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Mar 9, 2015 05:09
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I don't remember IW's load times being that awful after the game was first patched, and certainly not on even a modern HDD. I haven't played it on an SSD but once the disc was out of the equation it was fast enough. There were some weird bits though. If you cut the power at Mako does the chief scientist just disappear and lock you into the WTO path for that act? SolidSnakesBandana posted:With copious gas grenades, and a little bit of gumption, you too can non-lethally subdue the attacking force. The trick is letting Paul damage them so they are easier to knock out. It also didn't help that gas and tranqs in DX1 cause enemies to run around for ten loving minutes as opposed to the genuine incapacitation of IW and HR. That said, one time I got all of the NSF in the Battery park subway station to pass out head-to-toe in a straight line. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 05:16
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It's only getting tranqed that makes enemies run around while screaming "OOMGH". Hitting them with the Gas Grenades or the Pepper Spray makes them stay in one place while rubbing their eyes.
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Mar 9, 2015 05:33
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Oh man I completely forgot about pepper spray. That alone should tell you what I think of its effectiveness.
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Mar 9, 2015 05:34
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Shumagorath posted:Oh man I completely forgot about pepper spray. That alone should tell you what I think of its effectiveness. It's super effective
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Mar 9, 2015 05:40
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IW also lacks any good atmosphere. While the Original was graphically limited, the environments were somewhat immersive. You have had slums, military police headquarters, city streets, France, Hong Kong, underwater bases and area 51. Your weapons are pretty basic gun porn with some cyberpunk twists like the dragons tooth. In IW, you have Someone earlier said it's an above average game, but a poor sequel. Because of the sheer number of garbage titles that come out every year, they may be technically correct, but it's a pretty poor game all around. If you liked Deus Ex, there are probably a dozen other games you should check out before you resort to IW.
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Mar 9, 2015 05:45
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Shumagorath posted:Oh man I completely forgot about pepper spray. That alone should tell you what I think of its effectiveness. The Pepper Spray is useful as hell if you're going pacifist. Enemies that are hit by Pepper Spray (and the Gas Grenades as well) take four times the damage from an attack. Rushing isloated or straggler enemies with the Pepper Gun, then whacking them with the Baton lets you quickly take down an enemy and preserve Prod charges for MJ12 Commandos.
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Mar 9, 2015 05:46
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closeted republican posted:Enemies that are hit by Pepper Spray (and the Gas Grenades as well) take four times the damage from an attack. I did not know that.
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Mar 9, 2015 05:54
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Me either! God drat it Deus Ex!
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Mar 9, 2015 05:55
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chiasaur11 posted:even ignoring the unholy lovely loading for a game that's somehow uglier than the original, which is not winning any beauty pageants. I get that its a bland game, but lets not hyperbole. Deus Ex is a pretty ugly game that is only passable in this day and age from retexture projects. I am still amazed that they managed to port the original to PS2 though and it actually looks better in some ways than the PC original.
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Mar 9, 2015 06:04
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deus ex on ps2 and morrowind on xbox had the worst loading times of anything ive ever seen in 20 years of gaming. they both were like sublimely bad about it also invisible war is a lot of things but its not bland at all. its a very poor game mechanically but a lot of its weirdness comes from the fact its a little too beholden to the plot of the first, reusing characters and such. it assumes all the possible ending from the first game happened concurrently rather than exclusively and builds from that its wrong to say its not a deus ex game though. lovely though it may be its very much deus ex Blue Raider fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 06:38
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I did like a few things about IW. JC acceding to godhood while orchestrating the creation of the largest and shiniest middle finger on the planet and some of the later parts of the game. Tong being rightfully regretful for loving everything up was also a nice touch, considering how horrible of a decision it was. Honestly, the characters in that game were more memorable than anything else in the game. Male Alex Denton was okay. Compared to female Alex, the VA actually gave a poo poo about the voice work. The Omar were cool too. Shumagorath posted:Granted I was powergaming and knew where everything was from previous playthroughs, but I once beat it in under eight hours. DX1 and HR are still minimum 35hrs if I want to see everything. Also they give you the Dragon's Tooth and then fill the rest of the game with enemies that damage you when you use it. gently caress gently caress gently caress Templars in the rear end and those Illuminati pricks too.
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Mar 9, 2015 06:59
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Deus Ex is weird because it's very much like the other games Ion Storm made; bad art (except for Daikatana's Episodes 2 and 3), godawful programming, bugs out the wazoo, eh-caliber voice acting, and took way too long to develop. But, instead of tanking like DK and Anachronix did, it turned out to be one of the best games ever made. I'm not sure what the hell happened.
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Mar 9, 2015 07:07
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A couple more questions about saving Paul- if you/he take out everyone, and you leave through the window, does he still count as dead? Or does that line after the initial fight outside his room (where he says he'll meet up with you later and have Smuggler get him out) indicate that he'll live?
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Mar 9, 2015 08:30
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Cheston posted:A couple more questions about saving Paul- if you/he take out everyone, and you leave through the window, does he still count as dead?
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Mar 9, 2015 08:34
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Cheston posted:A couple more questions about saving Paul- if you/he take out everyone, and you leave through the window, does he still count as dead? Or does that line after the initial fight outside his room (where he says he'll meet up with you later and have Smuggler get him out) indicate that he'll live? Yeah, going out the window at any point during and after the assault kills him even if you take out every enemy in the building. The window is the one and only death trigger.
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Mar 9, 2015 08:35
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I remember when IW came out that the default mouse sensitivity was the same as for the Xbox version, meaning it was dreadfully slow for an actual mouse. They patched it within a week as far as I can remember with the response of "oops, we forgot to change it for the PC version". The Omar were cool, though, and the only faction that didn't bullshit you in any way from what I remember. I like how the endings are all terribly bleak if you think about it, though I guess that's true of all Deus Ex games. 1. Become the Borg. 2.  3. Let incompetent liars rule the world once again. 4. All Hail the Omar. Ekster fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 09:02
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Shumagorath posted:Well... gently caress. Was going to play through with commentary on anyway and skip all the e-mail fluff. I did it really early too.
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Mar 9, 2015 09:14
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Volt Catfish posted:I don't think it's even possible to mod Invivisble War because of how it was coded. Yeah, probably. There's nothing that can be done for poo poo like "on level load, the game terminates itself then relaunches" but theoretically, it should be possible to do the same thing that's being done with Deadly Shadows, i.e. redo the map files so they combine several of the game's maps into one.
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Mar 9, 2015 09:16
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closeted republican posted:Deus Ex is weird because it's very much like the other games Ion Storm made; bad art (except for Daikatana's Episodes 2 and 3), godawful programming, bugs out the wazoo, eh-caliber voice acting, and took way too long to develop. But, instead of tanking like DK and Anachronix did, it turned out to be one of the best games ever made. I'm not sure what the hell happened. Hey now, Anachronox wasn't successful but it was a great game. Can't lump it in with Daikatana.
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Mar 9, 2015 09:21
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Replaying Human Revolution, I like that you can get the most powerful weapon setup in the game (silenced lasersighted armor-piercing pistol) before you even enter the Police Station. Adam's Apartment -> Get his pistol and the Armor Piercing upgrade in his stash -> visit Seurat and buy the silencer -> help Carella get de-blackmailed -> get a laser sight. I keep trying to play through with the Combat Rifle or... literally any other weapon (up to and including cheating in the Laser and Plasma rifles), and I keep going back because the pistol just feels good. The Flechette System / bullet-curving on the Rifle is really cool, but I feel like the Rifle doesn't increase in damage enough over the course of the game- it takes a bit to kill the armored enemies in Alice Garden Pods, whereas by that point the Pistol and Revolver both have the ability to kill in one headshot (and in the revolver's case, knock enemies around if you miss). Does the Combat Rifle keep up with the sidearms in and past Hengsha if you upgrade its damage all the way? Has anyone tried this? Or are you meant to replace it with the (boring) Heavy Rifle once you hit the Garden Pods?
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Mar 9, 2015 10:16
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The pistol fully upgraded is amazing because all those punch able walls can actually be shot through with it if you have the armor piercing mod.
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Mar 9, 2015 10:21
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Party Plane Jones posted:The pistol fully upgraded is amazing because all those punch able walls can actually be shot through with it if you have the armor piercing mod. Wait what? I totally want to do a God Gun build now: nothing but the pistol. No augments except those you start with.
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Mar 9, 2015 10:24
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Grand Fromage posted:Hey now, Anachronox wasn't successful but it was a great game. Can't lump it in with Daikatana. It is a good game; I'm just saying it didn't become one of the best games ever made. :P
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Mar 9, 2015 10:37
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