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FuzzySkinner posted:Eddie Cheever noted fan of the Andretti family... He got into it a lot with Mario and Michael a lot. Started with the Andretti's getting pissy with him in the early 90s in some accidents with Cheever giving no quarter. The 92 500 start was pretty explanatory of the hatred of Cheever and the Andretti's, splitting and pinching him 3 wide on the first turn. Cheever being a winner in IRL is not surprising yes, but he would be back of the pack if he was in CART. He was no where as good as Vasser, Moore, Zanardi, Tracy, Montoya, Franchitti,etc... I'd put him Raul Boesel league where he had a good year then descended back to the norm.
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Mar 7, 2015 22:38
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i don't know that anyone with nine F1 podiums should be considered a shock winner in uh any race
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Mar 7, 2015 22:48
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BMB5150 posted:He got into it a lot with Mario and Michael a lot. Started with the Andretti's getting pissy with him in the early 90s in some accidents with Cheever giving no quarter. The 92 500 start was pretty explanatory of the hatred of Cheever and the Andretti's, splitting and pinching him 3 wide on the first turn. Well let's take a look at the 1998 field. http://racing-reference.info/race/1998-03/O Out of the people listed there? I think Cheever, Lazier, Brack, Sharp, Luyendyk, Boesel, Guerrero, Goodyear (and of course) Stewart would all do well enough. I think you could at least argue that a good portion of those guys would be contending for an Indy 500 win against the best CART had at the time. But the rest of the field would have been "Bubble" guys in the past. be nice wicka posted:i don't know that anyone with nine F1 podiums should be considered a shock winner in uh any race He was the last American with any staying power in F1. To have survived the politics over there is pretty amazing to me. Rahal, Cogan, Sullivan...all got kicked over to CART. The fact he was able to have a career that long over there is very impressive.
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Mar 7, 2015 22:57
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FuzzySkinner posted:Out of the people listed there? I think Cheever, Lazier, Brack, Sharp, Luyendyk, Boesel, Guerrero, Goodyear (and of course) Stewart would all do well enough. I think you could at least argue that a good portion of those guys would be contending for an Indy 500 win against the best CART had at the time. Lazier wasn't in any contention in CART but give him mid pack, Brack of course shown what he was made of, Sharp same thing as Lazier mid pack and don't have to mention 01 Indy start where he spun it, Luyendyk was ending his career at that point, tough to say if he wasn't in that wreck at California in 97 where he was in Zanardi's car, Boesel had one good year in 93 and faded off into obscurity, Guerrero was the same as Luyendyk where he was old and retiring where he's had a million almosts but in 98 in CART he'd be left in the dust, Goodyear could've been good depending on the situation but who knows and Stewart probably would've been good. I'd only give front runners to Brack and Stewart and everyone else would've been mid pack and worse. And year or two those two left for CART and NASCAR where they could be more prominent series at that point.
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Mar 7, 2015 23:07
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IOwnCalculus posted:It's a series (or at least, one race) where we still sit around and talk about things that happened 20+ years ago as if they bear some significant relevance to anything happening today. The split ...
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Mar 7, 2015 23:10
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be nice wicka posted:i don't know that anyone with nine F1 podiums should be considered a shock winner in uh any race Cheever was a bad driver. 97-98 winners make me 
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Mar 7, 2015 23:14
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BMB5150 posted:Lazier wasn't in any contention in CART but give him mid pack, Brack of course shown what he was made of, Sharp same thing as Lazier mid pack and don't have to mention 01 Indy start where he spun it, Luyendyk was ending his career at that point, tough to say if he wasn't in that wreck at California in 97 where he was in Zanardi's car, Boesel had one good year in 93 and faded off into obscurity, Guerrero was the same as Luyendyk where he was old and retiring where he's had a million almosts but in 98 in CART he'd be left in the dust, Goodyear could've been good depending on the situation but who knows and Stewart probably would've been good. I'd only give front runners to Brack and Stewart and everyone else would've been mid pack and worse. And year or two those two left for CART and NASCAR where they could be more prominent series at that point. I mean it is fascinating is it not? The thing is with Stewart is I'm not so sure he'd have been in an IndyCar in 1996-1998 if not for the split. I can at least kind of argue that the Billy Boat's and Davey Hamilton's of the world would have indeed been one off's and Indy at least. Stewart? poo poo...is John Menard really offering him the seat in 1996 if not for the IRL? Is Stewart really wasting his time running the "500" when NASCAR was already making fellow USAC Alum. Jeff Gordon millions more dollars? This is not to say he didn't ALREADY have one foot out the door at the time, but I think he'd have pushed his career into NASCAR a lot quicker. Goodyear for some reason (like Arie) had a knack for running up front at Indy and other "500" mile races. He'd have likely ran up front in a unified series. I really believe that. Dude won at MIS TWICE during his career..which is pretty impressive.
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Mar 7, 2015 23:18
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Cygni posted:Cheever was a bad driver. more race starts than several world champions (even ones who didn't die on track), you don't accomplish that without being pretty good
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Mar 7, 2015 23:37
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FuzzySkinner posted:I mean it is fascinating is it not? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT2G0iRwxaI&list=PL9A84264048F38B0F
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Mar 7, 2015 23:42
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FuzzySkinner posted:I mean it is fascinating is it not? I agree Stewart was already doing Busch races in 96, he could've done full time in 96 or 97 and be in Cup sooner and maybe not at Gibbs. I also agree with having the knack at Michigan or Indy which Goodyear and Luyendyk had, but they were bouncing because that's the best they could do is being great at those two tracks albeit a season or two they were good all around. Have to good everywhere where Michael never won Indy and won Michigan twice and broke engines and poo poo but was terrific elsewhere and was kept at Kraco, Newman-Haas and took over Barry Green's team. They could be competitive at high speed places but when you get to the next weeks at Milwaukee or Detroit, they would be out to lunch against Rahal, Andretti, Fittipaldi and Unser Jr. be nice wicka posted:more race starts than several world champions (even ones who didn't die on track), you don't accomplish that without being pretty good Andrea de Cesaris.
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Mar 7, 2015 23:51
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BMB5150 posted:Andrea de Cesaris. giving seats to italians is F1's version of affirmative action. plus he was fast and just happened to also crash all the drat time
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Mar 7, 2015 23:53
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be nice wicka posted:more race starts than several world champions (even ones who didn't die on track), you don't accomplish that without being pretty good Yeah but he was bad so i guess you can??? HPD's twitter has been posting teaser pics of their aerokit but its hard to tell just how ugly it will be. I mean, the answer is 'super super ugly' but still. https://twitter.com/HondaRacing_HPD
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Mar 7, 2015 23:53
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Cygni posted:Yeah but he was bad so i guess you can??? i swear one of those is just a picture of a crate painted in dazzle camouflage
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Mar 7, 2015 23:54
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One of these days, that dazzle camo will actually be a cross-eyed stereogram. Stare at it long enough you will find a hidden image!
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Mar 8, 2015 00:03
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Mar 8, 2015 00:04
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Almost looks like a PC case. Probably buy whatever wrap they have and cover our PC cases in it.
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Mar 8, 2015 00:14
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be nice wicka posted:more race starts than several world champions (even ones who didn't die on track), you don't accomplish that without being pretty good He did have some very good drives, and also the right sponsors and connections. He's still a better F1 driver than Michael ever was. De Cesaris was also good. He achieved a podium finish without actually making the checkered flag once. Human Grand Prix fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 03:26
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BMB5150 posted:I agree Stewart was already doing Busch races in 96, he could've done full time in 96 or 97 and be in Cup sooner and maybe not at Gibbs. You know if I was a mid-pack or a team that was struggling to get my foot in the door in the sport? I don't see why splitting up seat times with drivers who are specialized in a certain form of the sport wouldn't be the route you'd want to go. The whole Mike Conway/Ed Carpenter thing worked out BRILLIANTLY with ECR last year. It got them 4 wins and allowed them to compete with some of the bigger teams because of that.
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Mar 8, 2015 06:46
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The trick is to find drivers good enough who'd want to do that. For Indycar it's probably easier on the road side, it's 2/3rds of the schedule and you can possibly even go run for another championship alongside it. For oval? Who is going to want to run 4-6 races a year who is any good? If they were any good they'd be racing full time, probably in that "other popular oval series". Unlike road, there's no major oval series in the world you could fit around an ovals Indycar program. ECR had the huge advantage they had about the only driver who would want to do that, the team owner. You see the opposite problem in Nascar. Small teams bring in "Road Warriors" all the time for Watkins and Sears Point. Unless I misremember it's been a very long time since one of them actually won a thing.
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Mar 8, 2015 11:22
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No one brings in ringers anymore in NASCAR hardly, and I think the last ringer to win was Dan Gurney. The knock on effect of pushing the best American drivers to NASCAR is most of them are pretty loving good at road courses now.
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Mar 8, 2015 11:39
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To be fair though that's more of a by product of good NASCAR teams sticking with their driver for championship reasons and only terrible teams bringing on specialists for the longest time. Even then the specialist getting a 3rd place would be the highest finish by a long shot for the poo poo team all year.
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Mar 8, 2015 14:40
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plenty of ringers have been in good cars over the years and it's still been over 40 years since one won, though
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Mar 8, 2015 14:47
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even montoya was full time for seven years and won just two road course races. if he can't find more success than that then the ringers have no chance.
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Mar 8, 2015 15:03
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So we looking forward to the season opener today, guys? Guys?
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Mar 8, 2015 16:57
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Uncle Jam posted:To be fair though that's more of a by product of good NASCAR teams sticking with their driver for championship reasons and only terrible teams bringing on specialists for the longest time. Even then the specialist getting a 3rd place would be the highest finish by a long shot for the poo poo team all year. Really paid off for JTG-Daughtery. Landed them in the Chase and all.
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Mar 8, 2015 17:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sWEVthPQAM Will Power.
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Mar 9, 2015 01:25
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go3 posted:How quickly we've forgotten about Indianapolis 500 Winner Eddie Cheeseburger, Jr. Fixed that for you. Speaking of Damien Power, I tweeted at him a few weeks back and there's a chance of Damien coming to Indy for the 500. And if he does he's hoping to perform his act somewhere in Indy and I'll be there. My plan is to mention it to Will if I get a chance to talk to him!
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Mar 9, 2015 11:57
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please don't mick Indy 500 top ten finisher bill cheesbourg
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Mar 9, 2015 15:40
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 Breaking News Stefano Coletti to join KV Racing's 2nd car according to Italian news outlets
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Mar 9, 2015 16:07
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Coletti is pretty quick and has some GP2 wins. An upgrade over Saavedra who I guess is on the outside looking in now.
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Mar 9, 2015 16:22
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Yep, he'll be really useful to them until whichever point it is in the season he goes mental.
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Mar 9, 2015 16:36
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airbox, goddamnit.
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Mar 9, 2015 19:22
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Once I saw Chevy still had one, I wasn't expecting either to ditch the IRL air box until next year.
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Mar 9, 2015 19:43
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lol if you think indycar are going to ditch the airbox
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Mar 9, 2015 19:45
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What's everyone's problem with an airbox. Why do we all want single seaters to look 40 years old?
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Mar 9, 2015 20:10
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Dudley posted:What's everyone's problem with an airbox. jordan 191 had an airbox ergo airboxes own
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Mar 9, 2015 20:13
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Cygni posted:airbox, goddamnit. But how much will the gold aerokits cost?
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Mar 9, 2015 20:17
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Dudley posted:What's everyone's problem with an airbox. Some 40 year old single seaters had massive airboxes.
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Mar 9, 2015 20:21
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gret posted:But how much will the gold aerokits cost? Ask Trinidad James.
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Mar 9, 2015 20:21
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Dudley posted:What's everyone's problem with an airbox. It's something for dumb nerds to complain about.
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Mar 9, 2015 21:13
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