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NSW elections are starting to warm up. Say hello to the Baird Bus after a night in Katoomba.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:11
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MC Eating Disorder posted:You've got some problem with people using hyperbole but you have no problem actually personally attacking me for real to make a point, what the gently caress dude, pull your fuckin head in Stupid levels of casual employment - very bad. I think we all agree here that is not an Australia we want. Expecting small business to have some kind of above and beyond moral responsibility - wishful thinking. Reasons for an increased casual workforce - probably many, and maybe not all tied to big corporate greed. However, it would not appear that the status quo is doing much to solve the problem. How's that?
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Mar 11, 2015 00:16
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I wish I had my own bus.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:17
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Anidav posted:I wish I had my own bus. Another new av. Wow
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Mar 11, 2015 00:24
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The bad bus.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:25
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You Am I posted:Another new av. Wow he's doing it himself, got to spend those Centrelink riches somewhere
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Mar 11, 2015 00:25
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Graic Gabtar posted:Expecting small business to have some kind of above and beyond moral responsibility - wishful thinking. The point of a business is to make money and if it can't do that it's a pretty bad business. The market then dictates that you won't have any workers because you can't afford to pay them. The unions are there to keep the market working in this fashion. Unions = good business practices.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:25
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I haven't bought an avatar since cartoon koala. Sorry to disappoint you.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:27
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Anidav posted:I haven't bought an avatar since cartoon koala. Sorry to disappoint you. Seems unlikely, you replaced this one awfully fast 
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Mar 11, 2015 00:28
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You Am I posted:Another new av. Wow Whoever is doing them should know they are of a consistently excellent quality.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:28
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The solution to a casual workforce is, as Les Affaires said pages ago, stronger regulation. Small business owners might not think there is any incentive for them to treat their employees well, so they must to be compelled to do so.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:29
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I don't have the money to declare avatar wars.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:30
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Graic Gabtar posted:I'll take the piss a little by asking what planet are you living on? For every decent small business owner I meet I meet another completely lazy arsehole. The two... three small businesses i've worked for have all had rear end in a top hat bosses. first was a servo, paid in cash, paid under award, blamed me when someone drove off without paying in the middle of the night (like i was going to chase their car on foot, invest in cameras dolt) second was a net cafe owner who didnt pay me or the staff i managed super and told me "what are you worrying about super for, you're not retiring anytime soon", ATO got my super from him 6 years later. third was a concrete who was a litigious jerk who blackmailed me. Threatened to bury me in court if I didnt like it. I hear about these good small business owners, but my experience is different. I'd say the good/bad ratio is less than the 50% you claim.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:32
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open24hours posted:The solution to a casual workforce is, as Les Affaires said pages ago, stronger regulation. Small business owners might not think there is any incentive for them to treat their employees well, so they must to be compelled to do so.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:35
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Graic Gabtar posted:Said some soon to be unelected or never to be elected politician. Wow so solution much insightful
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Mar 11, 2015 00:37
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I worked for two small businesses and three national corporations, the small businesses both in Aus. The first one tried getting away with not paying me super, the second one accused me of stealing and decided that to find the person responsible they were taking turns putting people off for two weeks at a time. I was the first person to be told they weren't getting shifts, the day before Christmas. So I told them to gently caress off.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:39
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Graic Gabtar posted:Said some soon to be unelected or never to be elected politician. That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. There are a lot more employees than employers.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:39
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Graic Gabtar posted:Said some soon to be unelected or never to be elected politician. You veer back and forth between "it's right because people want it" and "it doesn't matter what people want, it's right" so quickly I'm getting whiplash
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Mar 11, 2015 00:44
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Waaaah the Christians are out to get me
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*checks thread* "welp, people are still replying to ratbag craig!" *closes thread, marks all as read*
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Mar 11, 2015 00:46
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Graic Gabtar posted:OK, settle down. I'm throwing out hypotheticals, not telling you to kill yourself or anything. I don't give a poo poo if people tell me to kill myself here because its pretty obviously a joke, and as much as I don't think its funny to joke about suicide, this is the internet and I'm used to ridiculous hyperbole. Being told I'm probably poo poo at my job is a lot meaner imo and I can handle people calling me a human being and whatever else because its obviously dumb hyperbole but I take my work pretty seriously, as do most people and that actually got through my internet skin. You don't seem like a super empathic guy so I'm not expecting you to apologize or anything but please don't complain when people tell you to kill yourself then throw out poo poo like this because it makes you like a huge fuckin baby, (NOTE: NOT AN ACTUAL HUGE BABY, ITS A METAPHOR AND A HUGE BABY WOULD BE ADORABLE MU-LYP) quote:Expecting small business to have some kind of above and beyond moral responsibility - wishful thinking. We're not expecting any business to have some kind of morality, but we can expect the government to enforce them to provide some kind of miniumum standard that's compatible with our cultures idea of a healthy work-life balance, which is exactly what this discussion is about. We're not wagging our finger at small business, we're saying "its the governments job to rope in the aspects of small business that are antithetical to our goals as a society quote:Reasons for an increased casual workforce - probably many, and maybe not all tied to big corporate greed. Are we talking about small business or corporate greed? I'm pretty sure you're fervently defending the rights of the aussie battler small bidness owner to hire however he wants in some misguided attempt to bring Libertarianism to Australia. quote:How's that? Weak as piss mate
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Mar 11, 2015 00:46
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Intergenerationally, the political landscape changes all the time. It's not fair to say a politician of the sort would lose on such a platform?
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Mar 11, 2015 00:48
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The one small business owner I worked for was a literal nazi. He was of German ancestry and and had photos of relatives who were German officers up on the wall in full nazi regalia. Also heard him casually chuck around certain slurs for Aboriginals in the office, got mad when I suggested that mining tax wasn't literally the devil.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:54
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MC Eating Disorder posted:I don't give a poo poo if people tell me to kill myself here because its pretty obviously a joke, and as much as I don't think its funny to joke about suicide, this is the internet and I'm used to ridiculous hyperbole. Being told I'm probably poo poo at my job is a lot meaner imo and I can handle people calling me a human being and whatever else because its obviously dumb hyperbole but I take my work pretty seriously, as do most people and that actually got through my internet skin. You don't seem like a super empathic guy so I'm not expecting you to apologize or anything but please don't complain when people tell you to kill yourself then throw out poo poo like this because it makes you like a huge fuckin baby, (NOTE: NOT AN ACTUAL HUGE BABY, ITS A METAPHOR AND A HUGE BABY WOULD BE ADORABLE MU-LYP)
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Mar 11, 2015 01:00
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open24hours posted:That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. There are a lot more employees than employers. I don't think it's ridiculous thing to say at all. Why do you say it's ridiculous?
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Mar 11, 2015 01:08
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Why is Abbotts parlimentary secretary on abc getting gently grilled by chris ulhman? Lol even Mundine is calling it out even if he can't bring himself to criticise Abbott directly.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:09
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Anidav posted:Intergenerationally, the political landscape changes all the time. It's not fair to say a politician of the sort would lose on such a platform? It would take me a lot to convince me that it would be a winning strategy at the moment.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:10
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My main point is that while you can't blame businesses for trying to make a profit and compete at the same time, their ideas about labour relations should never ever be listened to for public policy advice. Take it from somebody with ten years small business management experience and in final year of business school.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:11
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Graic Gabtar posted:but if trying to make my point I've insulted you personally or devalued you IRL then I take it back as a bit too clumsy and I apologise unreservedly. If? Are we unsure on this point? Graic Gabtar posted:Maybe you're poo poo at what you do Try actually being sincere when you apologise. It makes it so much more believable.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:14
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I find the idea that small business owners deserve more help than employees a bit laughable; opening a small business is not something you are forced in to, employment is. Small business owners also regularly make willfully stupid decisions, whether it's opening the second scooter shop in a town of less than 100,000 people or the 5th cafe on the same street. They're already subsidised heavily enough through the generous tax right offs (relative to regular employees) and grants available. Why should we continue to depress the rights of workers in favor of small business owners who chose to go down this route? If there's profit to be made then good, if there's not society shouldn't lower the bar just so people can make borderline stupid decisions function at the expense of others.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:18
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fiery_valkyrie posted:If? Are we unsure on this point?
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Mar 11, 2015 01:22
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Graic Gabtar posted:I don't think it's ridiculous thing to say at all. Why do you say it's ridiculous? Because people are pretty strongly in favour of stronger worker protections, and would happily vote for them if given the chance.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:23
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Graic Gabtar posted:Thank you on teaching a valuable lesson in trying to be sincere here. Don't worry, I won't do it again. Which bit? Apologising, or personally insulting people to make your point and then pretending that you didn't?
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Mar 11, 2015 01:24
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What, dont you enjoy small businesses becoming big businesses then collapsing spectacularly? (Pie face I'm looking at you)
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Mar 11, 2015 01:25
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Les Affaires posted:My main point is that while you can't blame businesses for trying to make a profit and compete at the same time You can blame them for their attitudes towards profit and competition though, which have been myopic in recent history. The idea that you should treat your employees well in order to foster long term productivity and loyalty has only recently been abandoned, or the idea that you pay them a good wage so they in turn feel more comfortable with putting that money back into the economy, or the idea that you pursue a long-term sustainable business model rather than one that maximises short-term profit at the cost of stability. The rejection of these concepts don't come from sense or reason but the lust for growth at any cost in order to satisfy shareholders. Death to financial capitalism and neoliberal economics.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:28
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SynthOrange posted:What, dont you enjoy small businesses becoming big businesses then collapsing spectacularly? (Pie face I'm looking at you) I went to a pie face that had a photo of the owners on the wall and it was just as awkward as the german club that has a photo of kaiser Wilhelm over the door
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Mar 11, 2015 01:30
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Which Australian political party is for socialism?
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Mar 11, 2015 01:31
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open24hours posted:Because people are pretty strongly in favour of stronger worker protections, and would happily vote for them if given the chance. It would have to be a well designed policy for that not to happen I believe.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:34
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TEAYCHES posted:Which Australian political party is for socialism? The National party tends to support a sort of agrarian socialism.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:35
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TEAYCHES posted:Which Australian political party is for socialism? Socialist Alliance
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Mar 11, 2015 01:36
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| # ? May 24, 2024 21:19 |
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asio posted:I went to a pie face that had a photo of the owners on the wall and it was just as awkward as the german club that has a photo of kaiser Wilhelm over the door Wilhelm did nothing wrong.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:36
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