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He tried to improvise the deployment of millions. Worst crime imo
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Mar 11, 2015 01:41
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cpaf posted:You can blame them for their attitudes towards profit and competition though, which have been myopic in recent history. The idea that you should treat your employees well in order to foster long term productivity and loyalty has only recently been abandoned, or the idea that you pay them a good wage so they in turn feel more comfortable with putting that money back into the economy, or the idea that you pursue a long-term sustainable business model rather than one that maximises short-term profit at the cost of stability. The rejection of these concepts don't come from sense or reason but the lust for growth at any cost in order to satisfy shareholders. Death to financial capitalism and neoliberal economics. Well yeah. I keep reading articles that touch on these topics indirectly, like one from a speech by the RBA boss talking about releasing the "animal spirits" of the economy. Another lamented the flatlining of people starting their own small businesses. Both people and businesses are much less inclined to take risks these days, since the heady days of the GFC. This has lead to a reduction in people hanging out a shingle, who would rather work for a larger well established company. John Howard did really well in part by appealing to the so-called "contractor army" that arose mid way through his reign, but that army has since disappeared. Abbott would do well to pay attention to this, either by creating the conditions to encourage risk taking, or appealing to the mostly employee-based economy who have no uncertainty whatsoever about whose interests they're really working for.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:41
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Graic Gabtar posted:The scenario I would see as far more likely would be shrieks from the small business community, back to back Murdoch media coverage of common workers being put out on the street because these "job killing" policies (for the sake of the argument let's assume this is a Labor policy). A whole bunch of employers sacking people in anticipation of the new laws. Hundreds of thousands of panicked workers thinking better the devil you know voting against it. Yes, it would be preferable if policies were well designed. I think you'll find that any implementation of any policy in any area can lead to catastrophe if you gently caress it up.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:42
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Mr Chips posted:The National party tends to support a sort of agrarian socialism. isnt it sort of silly to have an agrarian party on a continent thats like 80% wasteland?
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Mar 11, 2015 01:42
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TEAYCHES posted:isnt it sort of silly to have an agrarian party on a continent thats like 80% wasteland? Australia was built on the sheep's back mate.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:45
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Cities Skylines is turning out to be a great QLD simulator.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:46
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I thought Joe Hockey was feeling down after what those nasty journalists wrote so I sent him a lollipop to cheer him up.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:46
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TEAYCHES posted:isnt it sort of silly to have an agrarian party on a continent thats like 80% wasteland? welcome to the
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Mar 11, 2015 01:46
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asio posted:I went to a pie face that had a photo of the owners on the wall and it was just as awkward as the german club that has a photo of kaiser Wilhelm over the door Nothing wrong with the German Club, it has a rich history.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:46
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TEAYCHES posted:isnt it sort of silly to have an agrarian party on a continent thats like 80% wasteland? The 20% that is left is bigger than most countries in Europe anyway.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:47
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SynthOrange posted:Cities Skylines is turning out to be a great QLD simulator.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:49
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Graic Gabtar posted:You just killed my internet. Why stop there?
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Mar 11, 2015 01:58
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Les Affaires posted:Well yeah. I keep reading articles that touch on these topics indirectly, like one from a speech by the RBA boss talking about releasing the "animal spirits" of the economy. Another lamented the flatlining of people starting their own small businesses. Both people and businesses are much less inclined to take risks these days, since the heady days of the GFC. This has lead to a reduction in people hanging out a shingle, who would rather work for a larger well established company. Everyone's waiting for the penny to drop, the perception is that the economy is going to get worse before it gets better atm. To really understand the hardon for IR reforms you really have to go back 100+ years and look at our unique system of collective bargaining, and how it shaped the landscape today. Given today though and that our economy is largely consumer driven if you want a stronger economy you need to prod the middle and lower classes into spending. Cutting working conditions does the opposite. Also, if you want to encourage risk taking, there's an argument for stronger social safety nets so your failure doesn't result in you out on the streets.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:00
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Chicken Parmigiana posted:On the topic of goonmeets, I'm gonna be back in Melbourne from March 25th to April 6th, so if one were to to happen within that geographical and temporal window, that'd be tops. (Easter weekend is probably out though.) I'm planning to be in Melbourne around this time, so I would be interested.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:05
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Nibbles! posted:Everyone's waiting for the penny to drop, the perception is that the economy is going to get worse before it gets better atm. This. I run a small at home business that I'm looking to expand into other areas, and the stuff I sell at the moment is almost totally insulated from the Australian economy (in fact, a weakening dollar is mana from heaven for me). But every expansion idea I've thought of involves physical importation of goods to be sold to Australian consumers, and I'm really reluctant to take on board that much risk in the current economic climate. I just don't trust a) the AUD not to keep falling and b) there not to be major shocks to the economy with knock on effects ultimately affecting consumer spending (and thus, my bottom line).
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Mar 11, 2015 02:06
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Nibbles! posted:Everyone's waiting for the penny to drop, the perception is that the economy is going to get worse before it gets better atm. Hilariously, my class on entrepreneurship teaches that social safety nets discourage people from starting businesses, implying that they'd rather sit on their butts doing nothing on the dole. So glad I have to do this quality subject.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:06
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fiery_valkyrie posted:Which bit? Apologising, or personally insulting people to make your point and then pretending that you didn't? -/- Business Confidence has continued to fall despite the RBA rate cut. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-10/business-confidence-deteriorates-with-rate-cut/6293488 Leading to the RBA saying the lever is now broken and there needs to be actual policy from government  It's graph heavy and an opinion piece but have a read. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-11/jericho-the-interest-rate-mantra-has-hit-a-wall/6300346 -/- It's only now hit the headlines but I effort posted about this what? a month or so ago. Where this inhuman policy of removal has been done so far it has resulted in immediate and worse outcomes for the indigenous communities involved. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-11/abbott-defends-indigenous-communities-lifestyle-choice/6300218 quote:Indigenous advisers slam Tony Abbott's 'hopeless, disrespectful' description of living in remote communities as 'lifestyle choice' You can not make this poo poo up.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:06
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Splode posted:Hilariously, my class on entrepreneurship teaches that social safety nets discourage people from starting businesses, implying that they'd rather sit on their butts doing nothing on the dole. So glad I have to do this quality subject. I'd argue that it also ignores the fact that many small business owners put their life savings into starting and often use their homes as collateral for loans. Banks don't care as they have something to sell and many people go into business without solid plans and with rose covered glasses. Really you should plan on the assumption that you won't even break even till year 3. Many start on the assumption they'll be profiting from day one.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:19
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People who are unemployed are more likely to be unskilled and have very little capital base to work off. I don't know about you guys, but those sound like a perfect starting environment for a small business!
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Mar 11, 2015 02:22
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Splode posted:Hilariously, my class on entrepreneurship teaches that social safety nets discourage people from starting businesses, implying that they'd rather sit on their butts doing nothing on the dole. So glad I have to do this quality subject. My class on entrepreneurship taught that people are motivated into entrepreneurship by either necessity or by creativity. It's why a lot of small business startups are done by immigrants, because it's often easier for an immigrant to start a business than it is for them to get a job. Anybody who knows about creativity though will understand that you either need to be the type of person willing to take massive risks, OR have enough capital behind you to ensure that the risk is not going to change your living standards much.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:22
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Why take massive risks on creating a small business when you can make MASSIVE GAINS investing in property?
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Mar 11, 2015 02:24
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Cartoon posted:You can not make this poo poo up. An endless series of governments try to implement policy only to be howled down on all fronts to the point they always file the issue as too hard and leave it for the next guy. We will be here again three years time. And three years after that. And three years after that. No you can't make this poo poo up.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:27
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Its so drat depressing when I keep passing the same store lots that house bad idea after bad idea that opens for 2 months then shuts down. That or the economy just doesnt need a store that sells waffles in a basement? ? ???
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Mar 11, 2015 02:29
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And endless series of governments trying to implement bad policy.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:29
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Nibbles! posted:I'd argue that it also ignores the fact that many small business owners put their life savings into starting and often use their homes as collateral for loans. Running your own business is hard enough without that hanging over your head.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:30
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Splode posted:Hilariously, my class on entrepreneurship teaches that social safety nets discourage people from starting businesses, implying that they'd rather sit on their butts doing nothing on the dole. So glad I have to do this quality subject. DO they provide any stats to demonstrate even a correlation, let alone a causal link, for this? They'd also need to demonstrate how safety net wouldn't encourage risk taking. If you know that failure doesn't guarantee destitution, then you'd be more likely to try something, right?
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Mar 11, 2015 02:34
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The best way to start a small business is very very small indeed. A tiny, at home operation doing no more than 1000$ a month turnover that can be expanded gradually is far more preferable than renting and fitting out a corner shop in the inner city and hoping to make a million in the first 6 months.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:36
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open24hours posted:And endless series of governments trying to implement bad policy. Your either racist, insensitive, wrong, perpetuating the "stolen generations" things, a pack of arseholes - you name it. It's not limited to any one side of politics either.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:37
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Graic Gabtar posted:Anyone who thinks they need to put their house on the line for their business should think it through a little more. Banks demand security and often the house is the only option.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:38
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Graic Gabtar posted:No government can even propose policy discussion without people going apeshit. The government is perfectly willing to run roughshod over people who complain. Look at the intervention, if it was political correctness holding back indigenous policy then we wouldn't have a problem to solve.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:40
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Jumpingmanjim posted:Banks demand security and often the house is the only option. Rent plant instead of buying it. From a personal perspective I've been there. One large multinational hosed me badly paying a nearly 50k invoice three months late. The only thing keeping me sane was that no one was going to get to the house.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:44
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Graic Gabtar posted:Start smaller or save some more. How is it that you've come to different conclusions about politics as a small business manager than I have?
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Mar 11, 2015 02:48
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open24hours posted:The government is perfectly willing to run roughshod over people who complain. Look at the intervention, if it was political correctness holding back indigenous policy then we wouldn't have a problem to solve. The only great constant seems to be an endless queue of people throwing rocks at the people voted in to tackle the problem.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:49
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Les Affaires posted:How is it that you've come to different conclusions about politics as a small business manager than I have?
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Mar 11, 2015 02:51
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Graic Gabtar posted:Sorry, where was that post? As you've mentioned we mostly agree on things except for a few items.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:52
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Les Affaires posted:As you've mentioned we mostly agree on things except for a few items. When you start a business and you already have a mortgage and six mouths to feed it's very good at focusing you on what is important and how closely you have to watch the books. If you are lucky enough to get into a mutually beneficial position of employing someone you always have a fear that the arrangement is stacked against you. For every bad employer story there's a bad employee one. Just don't get into that position is the answer. Go casual, get someone else if you have to. Whatever works. Luckily for me I never had to knife anyone in this way because things kind of fell the right way. But it was discussed often and I would have done it in a heartbeat if it meant not paying some lazy or whiny gently caress. That may sound really lovely and it is somewhat but I have a lot more to lose than some employee in this deal. I'm either on the dole myself, or I go back to work in some consultancy role that specialises in moving jobs offshore instead of building a business here. By no means should business be setting policy on workers because employers can be exploitive fuckers. However, until you've lived this kind of poo poo for several years a lot of people are just slinging their ill-informed poo poo. e: typo Graic Gabtar fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 03:34
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Graic Gabtar posted:Tough one to answer, but I'll try to answer it as best as I can. This is the first considered answer I've seen you post here and I genuinely thank you for that. While I know this can come across as a backhanded compliment I'm not meaning it in that way, it is very nice to see a solid post.
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Mar 11, 2015 03:48
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Graic Gabtar posted:Tough one to answer, but I'll try to answer it as best as I can. I have lived it in a lot of respects and it is a tough mindset to overcome when you're transitioning from "what ideas are good for managing a small business" to "what ideas are good for managing a 1trillion dollar economy". A lot of people don't understand the difference and so they assume systems that look similar to each other will therefore have the same levers for "good" and "bad". Unfortunately there are deeper philosophical considerations for things that are further and further outside of economics. Race relations, Immigration, cultural considerations, all those sort of things affect how we interact as a community and because they have no immediate economic effects, there is wider diversity of opinion.
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Mar 11, 2015 04:03
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Forgive me for not crying for my boss who bought his girlfriend a new Porsche and had a carte of mineral water delivered from New Zealand in the same week he told the staff that all pay was frozen for twelve months because of the GFC. I will never understand or appreciate the unique and singular pain of paying people 1/5th of what I collect for their labour. gently caress any business owner who cries poor while still paying themselves.
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Mar 11, 2015 04:23
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Graic Gabtar posted:Tough one to answer, but I'll try to answer it as best as I can. Do it yourself and you win. Every employer does it and everyone is too scared to spend becasue they don't know if the next pay check is comming and the economy dries up and everyone looses. So the solution is to not allow anyone to do it.
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Mar 11, 2015 04:37
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