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  • Locked thread
dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

Corzanth posted:

My take on this is that the perpetrators were planning to kill both Philippes but didn't account for I TURN INTO DARGON mode.

Well, for all practical purposes they did kill them both.

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Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

If it really was the Anima Faith I think that they hoped people would flock in droves to their doors if their King and leader was, in their eyes, a soulless flesh golem.

But the better chances are that the Faith was framed, and since theyre a fledgling group/cult of semi outcasts theyre easy patsies.

TARDISman
Oct 28, 2011



That's the weird thing though. Gustave holds a great deal of influence, but he specifically is ignoring holding significant amounts of power. I don't think he even has legal dominion over Hahn Vegas anymore, he gave that off to the architect. I think he technically is still lord of Wide, but they never really bring that up.

Kulkasha
Jan 15, 2010

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Likchenpa.
Throne goes to Gustave's sister, wife to the Marquis of Otto. Which points more to her than Otto, honestly.
Really, Gustave should just annex Finney and Nohl at this point and be like, "gently caress ya all, imma start my empire"

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

Kulkasha posted:

Throne goes to Gustave's sister, wife to the Marquis of Otto. Which points more to her than Otto, honestly.
Really, Gustave should just annex Finney and Nohl at this point and be like, "gently caress ya all, imma start my empire"

Except she probably can't use the sword either, so it'd wind up going to one of their kids.

Elric
Mar 31, 2011


Eggs are meant to hatch into things. So. The real question is what is inside the egg, and when will it hatch?

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

TARDISman posted:

That's the weird thing though. Gustave holds a great deal of influence, but he specifically is ignoring holding significant amounts of power. I don't think he even has legal dominion over Hahn Vegas anymore, he gave that off to the architect. I think he technically is still lord of Wide, but they never really bring that up.

The way I see it, he has the power. He doesn't need to bring attention to it. He made his point in conquest, he proved he isn't worthless. If people rule the way he wants, fine. If they don't, he'll tear poo poo up again.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."
Since it's coming up... This is never stated directly so I was planning to mention it when there's actual in-game indication of it, but I may as well now: Marie indeed inherits Thermes after the deaths of Philippe and his son, but it doesn't go to Cantal, because she's no longer married to him at that point.

Kelvin probably didn't have Philippe murdered, is what I'm saying; Gustave was basically family already before they made it formal. (But maybe THAT'S why he wants to tell Gustave not to attack them!)

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Elric posted:

Eggs are meant to hatch into things. So. The real question is what is inside the egg, and when will it hatch?

It's been so long since I played that I can't actually remember how the story went (I remember a giant enemy crab, but it didn't have anything to do with anything? :shrug: ), but I feel this is an Important Post that should be remembered.

Rollersnake
May 9, 2005

Please, please don't let me end up in a threesome with the lunch lady and a gay pirate. That would hit a little too close to home.
Unlockable Ben
I bought this game back when it was released and couldn't get into it, and I'm really regretting not giving it more of a chance now—I don't think I've ever seen such a compelling story in a JRPG that didn't involve Yasumi Matsuno. poo poo, I burned through the whole LP this evening and can't wait to see what happens next.

Tallgeese
May 11, 2008

MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR


Ouch. Talk about damning something with faint praise.

Rollersnake
May 9, 2005

Please, please don't let me end up in a threesome with the lunch lady and a gay pirate. That would hit a little too close to home.
Unlockable Ben
I mean, it's a well-put together fantasy story with interesting characters and great art direction. What more do you even want from a RPG that that sounds like faint praise?

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Rollersnake posted:

I mean, it's a well-put together fantasy story with interesting characters and great art direction. What more do you even want from a RPG that that sounds like faint praise?

Tallgeese is not a fan of Matsuno's work. Let's just say it that way.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Wouldn't there kind of be more dead people if the Egg was here? Before Gustave shows, I mean.

Edvarius
Aug 23, 2013

Einander posted:

Since it's coming up... This is never stated directly so I was planning to mention it when there's actual in-game indication of it, but I may as well now: Marie indeed inherits Thermes after the deaths of Philippe and his son, but it doesn't go to Cantal, because she's no longer married to him at that point.

Kelvin probably didn't have Philippe murdered, is what I'm saying; Gustave was basically family already before they made it formal. (But maybe THAT'S why he wants to tell Gustave not to attack them!)

Man, I can't remember anything about what happens in this point of the game even though I know I had made it this far years back.

Anyway, with that said here's my speculation. Why are we assuming that who would inherit the throne is the reason for the assassination at all? It probably wasn't much of a secret that there had been some bad blood between Gustave and the rest of his family. By assassinating Phillipe's son and placing the blame on Gustave there was a chance of getting Philippe to believe that. If that had happened it very well could have caused another war. And no matter who won that one having two major wars in that area in such a short period of time would have made it relatively simple for somebody else to come in and conquer while everybody else has exhausted both men and supplies.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum
If that was the case, I guess whoever it was didn't count on Philippe Sr.'s little "my grief turns me into a dragon" trick. I mean, I don't know why anyone would count on that.

dotchan
Feb 28, 2008

I wanna get a Super Saiyan Mohawk when I grow up! :swoon:
If we're continuing the Gustave = Nobunaga parallel, this is more the burning of Mt. Hiei--the Buddists were largely attaching themselves to non-Nobunaga warlords (he allowed Jesuit missionaries to preach wherever he had influence, probably in a calculated political move, but he also didn't seem to have an issue against religion so long as they didn't get in the way of his ambitions), and they even fought as mercenary-type forces against Nobunaga and attacked his lands, leading to the death of one of his retainers. Nobunaga's response was "okay, if you want to play war against me, I'm not going to let you hide behind the veneer of your supposedly non-worldly religion", had the mountain surrounded, then torched the whole place and killed everything that moved.

Victis
Mar 26, 2008

Glazius posted:

Wouldn't there kind of be more dead people if the Egg was here? Before Gustave shows, I mean.

Someone that can actually control it might have it.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."
Wil vs. Egg (1257)
Wil hears that a pirate holds the Egg, and...
1257 Wil duels with the Egg
Wil duels the Egg on the pirate ship and sinks the Egg to the bottom of the sea.





(Novel)



This is a good point to drop by the Item Returner and check if anyone who's left the party has something you want. It'll be four full combat scenarios before another one is available.

In particular, make sure you have the Ice and Beast Lances. If you stashed the Red/Green/Blue Ores on a departed character, make sure you have those too. (Or don't; Cat's Eyes aren't very important.)






As always, the first step is to head to the bar. Talk to Tyler for progress, talk to the other two for incidental chatter.

Nice to work with you again.
Good day, sir!



Tyler, is it really true that the pirates have got hold of the Egg?
It's only a rumor, of course, but it's a highly reliable rumor.
Then that'll be fine. I've already arranged a plan.





Yes, I've been doing better lately. So, what plan did you come up with?
I've leaked a rumor about a highly valuable Quell being discovered in a certain town to an informer. Since I was the one that leaked it, the informer completely believed my words. I've already confirmed that this informer works for the pirates. This should draw these pirates to the town. I will then use this opportunity to sneak in and find the Egg.
Wil, did you really do that? You've become reckless, Wil. These pirates aren't coming over to play.





This is none of your business. Why are you trying to be such a crusader of justice? Whatever happened to your usual cool attitude? Just leave me alone, like you usually do.
You used to listen to others' opinions. Being called Tycoon must have gone to your head. Let's take it outside, Wil. I'll knock some sense back in to you.

Wil takes a step forward.




While you infiltrate the pirate ship, we protect the town. That's the plan, right, Wil?

The repetition makes it seem like Tyler's a bit worried that there isn't a plan.

Tyler......
Okay, leave the town to us. Got that, Patrick? Raymond?
Got it.




And then the screen goes black, and when we return, we're in control of Tyler.



drat straight.

Now that we've seen all four characters...

Wil's aged from 36 to 37 and gained 2 HP (482->484) but lost 1 WP (51->50).
Tyler's aged from 46 to 47 and lost 4 HP (576->572). No change of WP or SP.
Patrick's aged from 26 to 27 and gained 7 HP (518->525), 1 WP (77->78) and 1 SP (90->91).
Raymond's aged from 21 to 22 and gained 8 HP (285->293), 1 WP (58->59) and 1 SP (78->79).





(The funny thing is, the same girl says, 'Hey, haven't we met before?' to Wil. :3:)

Tyler doesn't ask the informant any questions, so as mentioned, his words last time were the last.




Thankfully, this is a much, much more straightforward scenario. No wandering around lost this time!


(Magical Realm)



Music stops and is replaced by atmospheric wave and creaking noises.



There's a long pause.




(Magical Realm)

And then you return to the City of Night with full control.

If you just want to complete the scenario, then you can head right up the ramp; the trigger you need is in the little guardhouse with the lights. If you're interested in exploring, though, it's been about twenty years and there's some dialogue relevant to that. (Plus, you can't trade the Ores away after that trigger.)




Kyle was the grandson of Kisk, the man with the Talisman Alexei wanted... And Kyle had nothing to do with it, because Kiske gave the talisman to the town's Tool craftsman before he died. That scenario was kind of a shaggy dog story.



There's a number of NPCs here who reference other, older NPCs (or younger versions of themselves) who stood in those same places.



All three of the random ground treasures are here. All three were questionably useful at the time and they're worse now. You can chip them, at least?

There's also the Rock Axe in the old lady's house cabinet, which can at least serve as a back-up weapon for Tyler (or an upgrade, if you did Anima Faith Fiasco but no other Wil scenarios).



These dancer sprites never show up anywhere else. They're animated!



Best sprite dog.



You can't buy anything in this scenario. Each character has their own independent collection of Crowns, and even if they didn't, this is Wil's last scenario. If you exchange here, you're increasing your Circulation counter, but you're also basically throwing the Chips into a black hole.

The developers are dicks sometimes.



Speaking of which, if you brought Tyler here last time, he still has the Crowns he had nearly twenty years ago. (That's definitely not Wil's--he has about 3500 still.) Consistency!





This guy still says he wanted to apprentice to the Tool craftsman but got turned down... Just like he did twenty years ago. And when you give him the Ores, he says he'll use them to make special Tools so that the craftsman will agree to take him on.

What have you been doing with your life, random NPC?



This guy is responsible for Infiltrate! taking so drat long to do. I will never forgive you, craftsman.




That's a quick tour of the city. Let's move on.




Hey, did you notice how we only have three party members?



No!

A long pause.

Who are you...?
There's no need for names. Why did you come here? I can't let you go now that you've seen me.
I've come here to protect the city from pirates.
Oh really? Who'd you hear that story from?
My honorable friend Tycoon Wil.
A friend of that digger? Where is he?
He's off on a different job. What about you? What's your business here? You're not a local, are you?



He came to notify me that pirates would be attacking this city in the near future. I've come to exterminate those pirates. Most of the people in the city have been replaced with my men. Additionally, Nebelstern and his men are on standby just outside the city. It's over for the pirates.



Tyler really was worried... But Wil had a plan for this. He's not that far gone, at least.

What are you mumbling about? Anyway, I will have you wait here until those pirates are taken care of.
Who are you, anyway?
You still don't know?

He turns towards Tyler.



I love how Tyler seems to spend most of his time in the land Gustave is taking over and he still has no idea who he is. Doesn't even know the name of his primary general!







Yep! This is happening.

Compared to the rest of the party, Gustave's base stats are kind of weak and his Sword skill is not very impressive--he's faced a lot less in-game combat, and he doesn't really have anything innate to make up for not having magic. In terms of items, though...



...a 53-attack weapon makes up for a lot at this point in the game. Gustave has finally got his three-times-longer sword.

But why stop there?



yessssssss

He also gets Patrick's old Steel Armor, since he's the best user of it. I just go and throw away the Iron Breastplate; it's not a Tool, so you can't break it down for Chips. (You can't break down Quells either.)



Now the city is filled with monsters. They don't respawn, and your job is to hunt them down and kill them all. They're not very difficult, but now that Gustave has the big fancy sword, the developers feel comfortable upping the ante a bit. There's nothing here as dangerous as the two Polar Drakes fight in Tycoon Wil, though, unless you get very lucky/unlucky with one special fight.

(The music is just Feldschlacht I here, since we're in no real danger.)




Patrick using Gale Strike (7 SP, 74 power) with the Silver Staff (23 attack). 23 Staff, 15 Tree, does about 1180.



Gustave using Double Stroke (4 WP, 44 power) with Gustave's Sword (53 attack). 18 Sword.

As you can see, he holds his own pretty well, even before you switch to the Cinderforge or start using bigger Arts.



The bird on the first screen can have a Polar Drake in the fight, but that's as rough as most fights get.

(Interestingly enough, they actually bothered to differentiate Gustave's Sword and the Cinderforge--the Cinderforge's blade is a triangle of about the same length. The Trial Dagger, Steel Dagger, the Gustave's Sword of Buckethill and Steel Sword are all shorter, while IIRC the Paladin Sword uses the Cinderforge sprite... The result being that Gustave's Sword actually has a unique sprite.)




There's two exceptions to the low difficulty. The first is this Scene. (And possibly the other enemy with the same icon on the same screen, but I'm not sure; I haven't encountered this fight there, but I haven't tried much.) It'll jump off as you approach, engaging you. If you get very lucky/unlucky here...



...then you get this fight.

The Queen Peg and her three Knight Pegs are a special encounter, available only here and in one specific third generation dungeon--one past the halfway point of that generation, even. They're correspondingly more powerful than anything else here, having about 2500 HP and doing much more damage. Plus, they look exactly like the incredibly weak Peg enemy; the only giveaway is that a maximum of three Pegs can appear at once, and the Queen and Knights will not appear with any other enemy type.



If you've fought through Wil's scenarios to this point, then they're not very tough (damage isn't amazing, defense isn't all that high, no status immunities but high resistance), but they can surprise you. The Missile Head attack from the Knights can stun, and the Queen Peg will usually use Queen's Kiss, which does low damage but can Charm. Charm + three enemies that Stun is not good times.

There's two other places to get the Feather Cap, and one of them is here. The one specific scene with the Knight Pegs has one in its Scene Drops, and you don't need to encounter the special Pegs to get it.

The real notable entry in the rare drop contest, though, is the Valleria Heart, the special drop of the Knight Pegs. It's a 53-power Flame Sword with +10/+1 SP/SPR and thirty uses--essentially a breakable Quell, considering the power and the SP gains. The problem is that it's a Sword, and Swords have previously-discussed user availability issues, and if you're crazy enough to grind for the Valleria Heart, then just go get the drat Cinderforge.

The Peg Queen can also drop the Peg Heart accessory, which grants +10 SP, +4 physical defense, +23 heat defense, +3 to the other magical defenses, and makes you immune to Water attacks the same way that the Birch Ring does. It is amazingly pointless for such a rare item.

(Some of these weird random encounter things seem designed just to mess with people in the pre-internet age. "Yeah, I fought this one zombie in the tower, and I was attacked by Alexei's dragon things! But I couldn't make them show up again!" "You are so full of poo poo." Or, "Hey, I ran into these super-strong bird things in Wil vs. Egg, they dropped a sword just as strong as Gustave's!" "Yeah, sure you did")




No special drops this time around, sadly.





The other slightly-dangerous thing is the two fights with bug map enemies, each of which has at least one 4400-HP Beetle Cruiser in it. It can kill a weaker character like Raymond in one hit with Step In and it's very tough. But hey, if you learned the Sword attack Head Cracker, it's effective against Beetles! This is like the one time it'll ever matter!

(Weirdly enough, despite its really high status defense, Raymond gets his first-ever Death Shot insta-kill on the first one, so the HP utterly fails to matter. Good job?)

The second one had two Beetle Cruisers, but it wasn't much more dangerous. (Aside from poor Patrick's bad luck, anyway.)



The Quell craftsman has locked himself inside his house (and won't let you in), but the rest of the townspeople are hiding in the bar. You can get hot chocolate up in the topmost corner, which'll restore your HP (but not your LP/WP/SP, so it's kind of useless).



Also Kyle's not in the bar. :ohdear: Well, I'm sure he'll be fine.

(I checked, you can't hop in the sewer to see if he's hiding there again. That would have been kind of clever! He's probably just hiding in the house with the Rock Axe, though, since that's where the elderly friend of Kisk was living last time we were here and it's also locked.)



Once you've cleared out all the enemies, my second-favorite sprite in the game appears! It's Skeptical Pirate Captain!



Before we talk to him and finish up this half of the scenario, let's bid farewell to Tyler. Look at that Axe level! It is very possible I will never get another weapon skill that high--in terms of availability, Tyler is second-best in the game, and he's drat good at Axes.

I also make sure to take the Anima Crystal off of Patrick, and I hand Gustave the Kris Knife to replace the Cinderforge--there's someone else who wants to use the Steel Triangle of Death in the near future, and Gustave can get by well enough with his own sword.




Tricking a pirate is the worst of the worst. Don't think you'll get away with this!





Now we're up against the Wyvern, who is essentially a baby Hell Winger--same attacks, half the HP and damage, also has a Feather Cap to drop. It's also by itself, the end result being that 13000 HP or not, it's not actually very threatening.



Plus, if you grabbed the Elven Lyre, then Raymond is immune to its Sonic-based Oscillation attack, which will probably kill him otherwise. This makes the fight basically a joke, because no one else is going to die in one hit and you've got Recover HP to heal without spending any turns. If you're using the Silver Chain, then that carries the fight all the way to "joke" territory.



wyvern...



And then he runs away.



Back to the atmospheric waves+creaking boat. Wil walks in from the left.




(vooorm; it's much shorter than usual)



(thinking) I'm going to sink that Egg to the bottom of the ocean.

Fade to black. The atmospheric noises are replaced with a howling wind. Wil walks in from the left.



You regain control at this point. The only way onward is downward--this is a very linear segment.



This pirate vomits with an accompanying dialogue box every couple of seconds. Every time he does, you freeze in place for half a second until the dialogue vanishes again. It's very annoying. (He keeps doing it while you're talking to him, even.)



Getting seasick...You still call yourself a pirate?

Long pause.

Do you know if any of your mates is carrying an egg-shaped stone?



You don't like eggs?
I don't call 'em food. They even make my body itch.
How do you carry on being a pirate like that?
Leave me alone. So I'm just a dumb pirate that's scared of storms, gets seasick, can't swim, and hates eggs. What's it to you?




If you say yes...



She says this line, then whistles; two skeletons drop down. You fight the three of them, and you're guaranteed a Dead Stone drop after the fight. (It's not very hard; this is still SF2.)

If you say no...





One of these answers will be "right." If you pick the right one...





She runs away without a fight.

She wasn't the one.




+5 SP, +3 physical defenses, +2 magical defenses, null Sleep. It's not useful at all, but this is the only place where you can get one.

I should reset and get the Dead Stone, but ehh.




oooookaaaay

I don't know what's going on here. I'm not sure I want to know, considering that reaction.





Wil will adopt whatever answer you give the lady here, but it doesn't make much difference.



How do you commentate on this kind of screenshot, exactly?










Sometimes this game is hella weird.

The storm's getting stronger.

You can go up to the deck now, but there's not much point. All of the pirates only say one thing:





The actual next step is to go for the item bag down here, with all the monsters. There's a scripted encounter once you descend the ladder and touch one, and the closed spaces make it virtually impossible to dodge them.







A long pause.







What...How do you know that!?
It's a given. That is the power of the Egg.

The Egg doesn't just have Anima absorption and manipulation, it also has some degree of mind... Or at least the ability to grant the knowledge of previous users.

The pirate takes a wobbly step forward.


Whoa, the ship is tilting! Is this your doing!?
This ship's going to sink, taking you and the Egg with it.
I can't allow that. Didn't I tell you I couldn't swim? I must use the boat to escape, then.

None of this dialogue changes if you never actually talk to the pirate before this.



Wil's not even looking at the holder.



The Pirate is actually fairly impressive, having about 4000 HP. His damage is awful to begin with (he was doing single-digit damage to Wil), but once you damage him a bit...



...he starts using the fairly powerful Light-elemental Egg attack, which drains a good amount of HP. It only uses one action, but he can only use it twice a round and won't use anything else at the same time. (I'm guarding, so this damage is more than halved... And I'm starting to suspect SP Enhance decreases damage taken by your amount of SP, because Wil is generally weirdly tough for his armor. If you're doing four actions a turn, it's more around 160 each time.)



Shortly after that, he says this, then begins to lower your defense with Stone and raise his own damage with Beast. Combined with the Brawl Hit two-step Art he starts using at this point, he can actually do double-digit damage!

Still, this is SF2: if you can't kill a player character in one turn, you can't kill. Wil prevails after a fourth Call Thunder.

(Though not before using Custom Arts Level 3 Water three times, because Duels are sometimes very dumb and this pirate is weak)


The Egg flies off the ship...

Ohhhh~! Wa~it!



...and the pirate jumps in after it.



A long, long pause.




You know what I think is saddest about this?

Remember what Wil said when Aunt Nina was dying? That he thought of her like his own mother?

Apparently he was lying.

It's not her name he's saying at the final moment... Not his wife's, either.



(The Outside World)



1257 Wil duels with the Egg
Wil duels the Egg on the pirate ship and sinks the Egg to the bottom of the sea.

You're given one last set of town interludes to convert Wil's Crowns over and move items off of him (or onto him, for long-term storage; you don't need Dead Stones yet, for example) before he's gone for good and takes his Crowns with him (to the bottom of the sea, presumably).



Pictured: Wil, equipped with a lot of crap I don't really need (but that I can retrieve if I want it). Those are some drat fine magic levels, aren't they?

Current Chip count: 4841, coming out to about 14800 Crowns + 2000 chips. That's already enough for two Paladin weapons and two Custom Tools! All money past this point is officially surplus.

That's all for Wil's chapters. It'll be a while before the Knights story resumes, so we're on Gustave chapters for a while... Including two locked Secret History chapters.


Next (chronological): Johan the Assassin (1260)
Next (Knights): Into the Forest (1275)

Einander fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Mar 28, 2015

Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009
So there's the face of Wil's obsession, where he's willing to suicide to get rid of the egg. Any means necessary.

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

This is why I wished they kept Gustave's normal sprite for Anima Faith. The sheer force of :asoiaf::flashfap: from "You Still don't know? I'm Gustave" being revealed there would have been epic. Instead it's just merely awesome.

Bellmaker
Oct 18, 2008

Chapter DOOF



RIP Wil :rip:

This scenario owns because you get to wail on dudes with Tyler and Gustave and it's :krad:

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?

Einander posted:




You know what I think is saddest about this?

Remember what Wil said when Aunt Nina was dying? That he thought of her like his own mother?

Apparently he was lying.

It's not her name he's saying at the final moment... Not his wife's, either.


...he was married? I feel like I missed some important things.

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

GunnerJ posted:

...he was married? I feel like I missed some important things.

The game doesn't say any of that until later.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum
It would be kind of hard for the Knights chapters to have multiple generations if Wil forgot to get laid.

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?

Nakar posted:

It would be kind of hard for the Knights chapters to have multiple generations if Wil forgot to get laid.

You don't have to be married for that though.

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008

Much as I'm enjoying the parts of this game I never got to see for myself, I feel like it robs the scene of impact that Wil sinks the ship basically by pulling a giant novelty cork out of the floor of the hold. Minor point, I know, but I expected better.

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

Who the hell are you?
You know. You know exactly who I am. Say my name.
Do what? I don't... I don't have a drat clue who the hell you are.
Yeah, you do. I'm the smith. I'm the man who killed Gus XIV.
Bullshit. Cantal got XIV.
Are you sure?

:allears:

That's right. Now, say my name.
[quietly] Heisenberg. The Steel.
You're goddamn right.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

FeyerbrandX posted:

The game doesn't say any of that until later.

The game only gives you snapshots of his life. He's off having a normal-ish life during the years he doesn't get any news about the egg, but we just never see any of it.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Having never played the game, I'm incredibly curious how this event ended up in historical records since it appears everyone who would have known Wil's part in it is dead. It seems way too major of a plot point for it not to be explained later.

Did I miss something, or were we given no explanation how Gustave and Wil met, and how Gustave ended up here?

Chuu fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Mar 13, 2015

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
I'm not sure they ever actually met, they're just both famous people at this point. Wil told a local famous lord-with-an-army about an incoming invasion, and Gustave believed a hot tip from a local famous entrepreneur.

Also, wouldn't Tyler know about Wil's role in all this? He knows he went after the pirates to get the egg and then the boat sank.

TARDISman
Oct 28, 2011



Chuu posted:

Having never played the game, I'm incredibly curious how this event ended up in historical records since it appears everyone who would have known Wil's part in it is dead. It seems way too major of a plot point for it not to be explained later.

Did I miss something, or were we given no explanation how Gustave and Wil met, and how Gustave ended up here?

For the first part, everything on the Knights' side of the story isn't shown by default in the Chronicle section, it's easier to think of it as looking at both a history book of Sandail, with a focus on Gustave the Steel's meteoric rise to power, and a journal of Wil Knights and his struggle against the Egg. Frankly, if this game had something similar to Final Fantasy Tactics, where at the introduction they show that you're looking through this from the lens of a historian, the entire "Knights" and "Gustave" stories and their relative knowledge in history would be much clearer. Something like "Surely you know of the tale of Gustave XIII, better known as Gustave the Steel. But you may not know the whole story, come and read the tale of two men. One, of royal birth and unfortunate circumstance, and one of humble beginnings and a shadowed path." Or some bullshit like that.

As for Wil and Gustave, it can be presumed to happen before he traveled to Westia, remember as far as we know, Gustave is still lord of Wide, and Wil's last mentioned to be living in Wide with Cordelia, so it's entirely possible that he had an audience with Gustave and informed him of his plan, as a way to deal with the pirates.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum
Historically, probably all that's known is that Gustave and his army ambushed some pirates in the region around that time. "Why did Gustave know to ambush those pirates?" is a question history has just glossed over since, because it would've been Gustave's responsibility to protect the lands under his influence anyway and he's a genius so of course he must have had his sources. The fact that Wil set the entire thing up as a way to get at the Egg is the part that's lost to history, though as pointed out it could still be noted somewhere because if nothing else Tyler was aware of it.

Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009

Nakar posted:

Historically, probably all that's known is that Gustave and his army ambushed some pirates in the region around that time. "Why did Gustave know to ambush those pirates?" is a question history has just glossed over since, because it would've been Gustave's responsibility to protect the lands under his influence anyway and he's a genius so of course he must have had his sources. The fact that Wil set the entire thing up as a way to get at the Egg is the part that's lost to history, though as pointed out it could still be noted somewhere because if nothing else Tyler was aware of it.

Given the fact that Wil at this point is 'Tycoon Wil', it wouldn't surprise me if a note of 'Tycoon Wil warned Gustave the Steel of an impending pirate attack before he tragically disappeared.' got written down in the annals of history.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

TARDISman posted:

As for Wil and Gustave, it can be presumed to happen before he traveled to Westia, remember as far as we know, Gustave is still lord of Wide, and Wil's last mentioned to be living in Wide with Cordelia, so it's entirely possible that he had an audience with Gustave and informed him of his plan, as a way to deal with the pirates.

Since Gustave's in his 'badass coat' sprite I'm pretty sure he's moved his seat to Hahn Nova at this point. Fortunately Tycoon Wil being a Digger can go wherever he wants so it's likely that they met beforehand.

'Hey, it's that badass coat guy that's conquering the lands, I'm Tycoon Wil.'
'You're Tycoon Wil? I've heard about you! You diggers be crazy for messing with quells.'
'True dat. Wanna grab a pint?'
'Wish I could. Nebelstern'll get annoyed at me again if I skip this inspection.'
'Oh well. Peace out!'
'Diggy Diggy hole you crazy diamond.'

And then when Wil found out about the Pirates and hatched his plan...

'Hey Gus, I hear you messed with Pirates once.'
'They're legitimate traders. Remember that coral hairpin I told you to get for the missus?'
'I've lived in Wide for awhile man. You got kicked out of the castle for being pasty-faced.'
'Ok fine yes. I messed with Pirates once. It was pretty fun. Sic burned some creeps, swashed some buckles, learned about the meaning of freedom, killed like a bajillion slimes that week.'
'Wanna do it again?'
'Will it be fun?'
'My pirate forecast says there's a high chance of domesticated monsters where they're gonna be.'
'BOY HOWDY let me get Nebelstern on the line, he's gonna love this.'

I'm pretty sure the official history at this point would be something like Keldulas said. 'Gustave in his magnanimity protected the City of the Night from pillaging by pirates, thanks in part to a hot tip from Tycoon Wil.'

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Well, Wil went out the way he wanted to -- sinking the Egg into obscurity.

Raitzeno
Nov 24, 2007

What? It seemed like
a good idea at the time.

EponymousMrYar posted:

'Hey, it's that badass coat guy that's conquering the lands, I'm Tycoon Wil.'
'You're Tycoon Wil? I've heard about you! You diggers be crazy for messing with quells.'
'True dat. Wanna grab a pint?'
'Wish I could. Nebelstern'll get annoyed at me again if I skip this inspection.'
'Oh well. Peace out!'
'Diggy Diggy hole you crazy diamond.'

And then when Wil found out about the Pirates and hatched his plan...

'Hey Gus, I hear you messed with Pirates once.'
'They're legitimate traders. Remember that coral hairpin I told you to get for the missus?'
'I've lived in Wide for awhile man. You got kicked out of the castle for being pasty-faced.'
'Ok fine yes. I messed with Pirates once. It was pretty fun. Sic burned some creeps, swashed some buckles, learned about the meaning of freedom, killed like a bajillion slimes that week.'
'Wanna do it again?'
'Will it be fun?'
'My pirate forecast says there's a high chance of domesticated monsters where they're gonna be.'
'BOY HOWDY let me get Nebelstern on the line, he's gonna love this.'

If actual history books were more like this, we'd have a lot more history buffs.

TARDISman
Oct 28, 2011



Raitzeno posted:

If actual history books were more like this, we'd have a lot more history buffs.

If actual history lectures were more like this, we'd have a lot more history buffs.

Sketchie
Nov 14, 2012

It's pretty sad when the people you've "grown up with" has to stop hunting with Wil for some reason. You start to get attached to them. I was sad when Cordelia, Auntie Nina and that certain chick in the next generation had to leave. :ohdear:

Except Labelle.

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Shitenshi
Mar 12, 2013

FeyerbrandX posted:

Who the hell are you?
You know. You know exactly who I am. Say my name.
Do what? I don't... I don't have a drat clue who the hell you are.
Yeah, you do. I'm the smith. I'm the man who killed Gus XIV.
Bullshit. Cantal got XIV.
Are you sure?

:allears:

That's right. Now, say my name.
[quietly] Heisenberg. The Steel.
You're goddamn right.


This whole thing was awesome, but if the thread title is ever going to be changed in the future, that bolded exchange should be it.

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