tech bubble: Make someone ugly cry. Adobe can help.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > tech bubble: Make someone ugly cry. Adobe can help.

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carry on then: Jul 10, 2010; by VideoGames
(and can't post for 10 years!)

i have a feeling the people who demand long hours from programmers have never programmed long hours themselves, because you don't make progress, you just make bugs

# ? Mar 12, 2015 20:34

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 16:22

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

does this listing displace that penny arcade it job for the worst listing?

# ? Mar 12, 2015 20:39

carry on then: Jul 10, 2010; by VideoGames
(and can't post for 10 years!)

FMguru posted:

does this listing displace that penny arcade it job for the worst listing?

there was one for rogue breweries that was p bad

# ? Mar 12, 2015 20:41

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

FMguru posted:

does this listing displace that penny arcade it job for the worst listing?

the penny arcade job was insultingly terrible but at least it wasn't obviously illegal

# ? Mar 12, 2015 20:53

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

carry on then posted:

i have a feeling the people who demand long hours from programmers have never programmed long hours themselves, because you don't make progress, you just make bugs

it's worse

they are (or recently were) coders, but they still lack the self-insight to understand how little is gained by long hours. people you will never be able to reason with. they paid their dues trapped between fixed deadlines and changing requirements, now it's your turn.

the worst possible management

# ? Mar 12, 2015 20:54

qirex: Feb 15, 2001

Two separate class-action lawsuits against ride-hailing companies Uber and Lyft will go to trial before juries after the companies failed to convince Federal judges on Wednesday that drivers who work for them should be considered contractors instead of employees.

U.S. District Judges Edward Chen and Vince Chhabria said in two rulings in San Francisco federal court that juries will have to determine the status of each companies� drivers.

Both companies currently face separate class-action lawsuits from drivers who contend that they�re employees entitled to a minimum wage, reimbursement for expenses, overtime and other benefits. Currently, the companies classify their drivers as contractors, and require them to pay expenses from their own pockets.

If a jury finds that drivers for transport network companies like Uber and Lyft are in fact employees, �it�s going to mean a lot of things,� according to Shannon Liss-Riordan, a lawyer representing the plaintiffs in the class-action lawsuit against Uber.

Under California law, both companies would have to reimburse employees for expenses like gas, tolls and insurance. They would also have to pay unemployment insurance, workers' compensation, Social Security and other benefits.

Aside from increasing the cost of doing business, the ruling could affect the valuations of both companies and similar start-ups, which rely heavily on contracted individuals to provide services that are core to their business.

A Lyft spokeswoman said the company could not comment on ongoing litigation while Uber did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

# ? Mar 12, 2015 20:54

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

qirex posted:

Two separate class-action lawsuits against ride-hailing companies Uber and Lyft will go to trial before juries after the companies failed to convince Federal judges on Wednesday that drivers who work for them should be considered contractors instead of employees.

U.S. District Judges Edward Chen and Vince Chhabria said in two rulings in San Francisco federal court that juries will have to determine the status of each companies� drivers.

Both companies currently face separate class-action lawsuits from drivers who contend that they�re employees entitled to a minimum wage, reimbursement for expenses, overtime and other benefits. Currently, the companies classify their drivers as contractors, and require them to pay expenses from their own pockets.

If a jury finds that drivers for transport network companies like Uber and Lyft are in fact employees, �it�s going to mean a lot of things,� according to Shannon Liss-Riordan, a lawyer representing the plaintiffs in the class-action lawsuit against Uber.

Under California law, both companies would have to reimburse employees for expenses like gas, tolls and insurance. They would also have to pay unemployment insurance, workers' compensation, Social Security and other benefits.

Aside from increasing the cost of doing business, the ruling could affect the valuations of both companies and similar start-ups, which rely heavily on contracted individuals to provide services that are core to their business.

A Lyft spokeswoman said the company could not comment on ongoing litigation while Uber did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

very pleasing to me

# ? Mar 12, 2015 20:55

eric: Apr 27, 2004; Lipstick Apathy

qirex posted:

Two separate class-action lawsuits against ride-hailing companies Uber and Lyft will go to trial before juries after the companies failed to convince Federal judges on Wednesday that drivers who work for them should be considered contractors instead of employees.

U.S. District Judges Edward Chen and Vince Chhabria said in two rulings in San Francisco federal court that juries will have to determine the status of each companies� drivers.

Both companies currently face separate class-action lawsuits from drivers who contend that they�re employees entitled to a minimum wage, reimbursement for expenses, overtime and other benefits. Currently, the companies classify their drivers as contractors, and require them to pay expenses from their own pockets.

If a jury finds that drivers for transport network companies like Uber and Lyft are in fact employees, �it�s going to mean a lot of things,� according to Shannon Liss-Riordan, a lawyer representing the plaintiffs in the class-action lawsuit against Uber.

Under California law, both companies would have to reimburse employees for expenses like gas, tolls and insurance. They would also have to pay unemployment insurance, workers' compensation, Social Security and other benefits.

Aside from increasing the cost of doing business, the ruling could affect the valuations of both companies and similar start-ups, which rely heavily on contracted individuals to provide services that are core to their business.

A Lyft spokeswoman said the company could not comment on ongoing litigation while Uber did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

going to own when the drivers are ruled employees.

# ? Mar 12, 2015 20:59

theflyingexecutive: Apr 22, 2007

oh man I loving hope so

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:00

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

it will own harder when uber and lyft have to explain the civil court judgement to irs criminal investigators

yeah we totally don't owe any taxes, they're not employees
uhh no that lawsuit is definitely not germane to our tax situation
uhhh

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:00

NoneMoreNegative: Jul 20, 2000; GOTH FASCISTIC
PAIN MASTER

shit wizard dad

Smythe posted:

very pleasing to me

hey don't be appropriating Kevin's style just because you're IK

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:00

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

qirex posted:

Two separate class-action lawsuits against ride-hailing companies Uber and Lyft will go to trial before juries after the companies failed to convince Federal judges on Wednesday that drivers who work for them should be considered contractors instead of employees.

U.S. District Judges Edward Chen and Vince Chhabria said in two rulings in San Francisco federal court that juries will have to determine the status of each companies’ drivers.

Both companies currently face separate class-action lawsuits from drivers who contend that they’re employees entitled to a minimum wage, reimbursement for expenses, overtime and other benefits. Currently, the companies classify their drivers as contractors, and require them to pay expenses from their own pockets.

If a jury finds that drivers for transport network companies like Uber and Lyft are in fact employees, “it’s going to mean a lot of things,” according to Shannon Liss-Riordan, a lawyer representing the plaintiffs in the class-action lawsuit against Uber.

Under California law, both companies would have to reimburse employees for expenses like gas, tolls and insurance. They would also have to pay unemployment insurance, workers' compensation, Social Security and other benefits.

Aside from increasing the cost of doing business, the ruling could affect the valuations of both companies and similar start-ups, which rely heavily on contracted individuals to provide services that are core to their business.

A Lyft spokeswoman said the company could not comment on ongoing litigation while Uber did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

rip uber/lyft

if they lose that case, the penalties will ruin them

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:02

qirex: Feb 15, 2001

I'm curious what this will do to sidecar [which is much more like actual contractors since they set their own prices and stuff] and all that other gig economy poo poo like postmates, taskrabbit, etc.

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:03

Asymmetric POSTer: Aug 17, 2005

qirex posted:

Two separate class-action lawsuits against ride-hailing companies Uber and Lyft will go to trial before juries after the companies failed to convince Federal judges on Wednesday that drivers who work for them should be considered contractors instead of employees.

U.S. District Judges Edward Chen and Vince Chhabria said in two rulings in San Francisco federal court that juries will have to determine the status of each companies� drivers.

Both companies currently face separate class-action lawsuits from drivers who contend that they�re employees entitled to a minimum wage, reimbursement for expenses, overtime and other benefits. Currently, the companies classify their drivers as contractors, and require them to pay expenses from their own pockets.

If a jury finds that drivers for transport network companies like Uber and Lyft are in fact employees, �it�s going to mean a lot of things,� according to Shannon Liss-Riordan, a lawyer representing the plaintiffs in the class-action lawsuit against Uber.

Under California law, both companies would have to reimburse employees for expenses like gas, tolls and insurance. They would also have to pay unemployment insurance, workers' compensation, Social Security and other benefits.

Aside from increasing the cost of doing business, the ruling could affect the valuations of both companies and similar start-ups, which rely heavily on contracted individuals to provide services that are core to their business.

A Lyft spokeswoman said the company could not comment on ongoing litigation while Uber did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

gently caress yes

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:09

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

qirex posted:

which rely heavily on contracted individuals to provide services that are core to their business.

love to see a hot mic moment on this where an executive painstakingly explains that it's not a risk, there's plenty of rubes to throw under the driver's seat

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:14

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

qirex posted:

Two separate class-action lawsuits against ride-hailing companies Uber and Lyft will go to trial before juries after the companies failed to convince Federal judges on Wednesday that drivers who work for them should be considered contractors instead of employees.

U.S. District Judges Edward Chen and Vince Chhabria said in two rulings in San Francisco federal court that juries will have to determine the status of each companies� drivers.

Both companies currently face separate class-action lawsuits from drivers who contend that they�re employees entitled to a minimum wage, reimbursement for expenses, overtime and other benefits. Currently, the companies classify their drivers as contractors, and require them to pay expenses from their own pockets.

If a jury finds that drivers for transport network companies like Uber and Lyft are in fact employees, �it�s going to mean a lot of things,� according to Shannon Liss-Riordan, a lawyer representing the plaintiffs in the class-action lawsuit against Uber.

Under California law, both companies would have to reimburse employees for expenses like gas, tolls and insurance. They would also have to pay unemployment insurance, workers' compensation, Social Security and other benefits.

Aside from increasing the cost of doing business, the ruling could affect the valuations of both companies and similar start-ups, which rely heavily on contracted individuals to provide services that are core to their business.

A Lyft spokeswoman said the company could not comment on ongoing litigation while Uber did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:18

qirex: Feb 15, 2001

they could still win the jury trial since combined they have approximately infinity dollars to spend on lawyers

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:26

GameCube: Nov 21, 2006

all uber needs to do is put dashcams in the cars and broadcast their recordings as a reality show. then they can get away with doing whatever the gently caress they want, because it's all first amendment-protected speech

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:33

crusader_complex: Jun 4, 2012

i wonder what the irs' posture is towards this "everybody is a contractor" type of employment.

id think they would like the idea of big companies withholding and keeping records, vs tracking down thousands of individual contractors who forgot to withhold.

god, i hope the irs and courts put this thing in the ground

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:35

Lamont Cranston: Sep 1, 2006; how do i shot foam

crusader_complex posted:

i wonder what the irs' posture is towards this "everybody is a contractor" type of employment.

id think they would like the idea of big companies withholding and keeping records, vs tracking down thousands of individual contractors who forgot to withhold.

god, i hope the irs and courts put this thing in the ground

this is how the entertainment industry has worked since forever fyi

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:41

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

crusader_complex posted:

i wonder what the irs' posture is towards this "everybody is a contractor" type of employment.

id think they would like the idea of big companies withholding and keeping records, vs tracking down thousands of individual contractors who forgot to withhold.

god, i hope the irs and courts put this thing in the ground

they get really loving mad about it, because employment taxes are slightly higher than self-employment taxes

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:42

qirex: Feb 15, 2001

the IRS should get the same amount, the drivers can't cheat on tips like people who deal with cash, I think municipalities don't like it because they don't get payroll tax on contractors, states get their extra 10% [at least in CA] but it's a bad deal for everybody except employers

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:42

Beast of Bourbon: Sep 25, 2013; Pillbug

Lamont Cranston posted:

this is how the entertainment industry has worked since forever fyi

at least the game industry is all W2 contractors, meaning if you work for EA you really work for PRO Solutions, LLC, INC with their own HR offices on the EA Campus but they take all your taxes out and have a system for expenses / health insurance and poo poo.

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:43

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Beast of Bourbon posted:

at least the game industry is all W2 contractors, meaning if you work for EA you really work for PRO Solutions, LLC, INC with their own HR offices on the EA Campus but they take all your taxes out and have a system for expenses / health insurance and poo poo.

w2 contracting, also known as "not committing tax fraud"

the list of qualifications for someone to be a bona fide 1099 contractor is strict enough that it's an impossible burden to clear as an individual (unless you're literally a consultant working 2 hours a week)

edit: hell, even most consultants don't really qualify for 1099

irs posted:

Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?

Financial: Are the business aspects of the worker�s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)

Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?

the actual worksheet to help you determine it is a laff

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fss8.pdf

pretty much nothing you would call a job could make you a 1099 contractor.

Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Mar 12, 2015

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:47

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

qirex posted:

Two separate class-action lawsuits against ride-hailing companies Uber and Lyft will go to trial before juries after the companies failed to convince Federal judges on Wednesday that drivers who work for them should be considered contractors instead of employees.

U.S. District Judges Edward Chen and Vince Chhabria said in two rulings in San Francisco federal court that juries will have to determine the status of each companies� drivers.

Both companies currently face separate class-action lawsuits from drivers who contend that they�re employees entitled to a minimum wage, reimbursement for expenses, overtime and other benefits. Currently, the companies classify their drivers as contractors, and require them to pay expenses from their own pockets.

If a jury finds that drivers for transport network companies like Uber and Lyft are in fact employees, �it�s going to mean a lot of things,� according to Shannon Liss-Riordan, a lawyer representing the plaintiffs in the class-action lawsuit against Uber.

Under California law, both companies would have to reimburse employees for expenses like gas, tolls and insurance. They would also have to pay unemployment insurance, workers' compensation, Social Security and other benefits.

Aside from increasing the cost of doing business, the ruling could affect the valuations of both companies and similar start-ups, which rely heavily on contracted individuals to provide services that are core to their business.

A Lyft spokeswoman said the company could not comment on ongoing litigation while Uber did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

feelin rigid

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:49

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

qirex posted:

I'm curious what this will do to sidecar [which is much more like actual contractors since they set their own prices and stuff] and all that other gig economy poo poo like postmates, taskrabbit, etc.

idk about sidecar, but most of the gig economy companies will collapse or burnout as anyone with any sense takes their money and gets the gently caress out before the inevitable domino wave of lawsuits reaches them. no matter how stupid vcs are, it'll probably get a lot harder for those companies to keep the money flowing after a federal judge publicly executes uber and lyft

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:51

Beast of Bourbon: Sep 25, 2013; Pillbug

i used taskrabbit to buy a bottle of scotch and deliver it to a friend of mine for his bday at his office. cost was $8 + cost of booze. it took them like 2 hours to do it because i have no idea what they were doing but that's less than minimum wages. they should fix that.

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:52

qirex: Feb 15, 2001

1099 was designed for piece work/work for hire and the fact that uber not only sets their rates but changes them without negotiation seems like this doesn't look good for them

# ? Mar 12, 2015 21:56

Just-In-Timeberlake: Aug 18, 2003

jre posted:

# ? Mar 12, 2015 22:05

eric: Apr 27, 2004; Lipstick Apathy

qirex posted:

1099 was designed for piece work/work for hire and the fact that uber not only sets their rates but changes them without negotiation seems like this doesn't look good for them

They're going to lose and will have to let drivers set rates to keep them as contractors.

# ? Mar 12, 2015 22:06

Boxturret: Oct 3, 2013; Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

Just-In-Timeberlake posted:

# ? Mar 12, 2015 22:09

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

Just-In-Timeberlake posted:

# ? Mar 12, 2015 22:16

Munkeymon: Aug 14, 2003; Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.

Just-In-Timeberlake posted:

oh my god I didn't think it could get any better

# ? Mar 12, 2015 22:25

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

qirex posted:

1099 was designed for piece work/work for hire and the fact that uber not only sets their rates but changes them without negotiation seems like this doesn't look good for them

no that's the great thing

they're being sued by employees in civil court, for all the poo poo employees are owed.

the irs hasn't even got involved yet. uber is gonna get hosed, then hosed again

# ? Mar 12, 2015 22:27

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

crusader_complex posted:

i wonder what the irs' posture is towards this "everybody is a contractor" type of employment.

id think they would like the idea of big companies withholding and keeping records, vs tracking down thousands of individual contractors who forgot to withhold.

god, i hope the irs and courts put this thing in the ground

idk if you've heard it but the IRS keeps pointing out that if they only were given the up front money to do investigations and enforcement they could return 100x the amount via stopping fraud. independent contractor fraud is one of the things they would target.

but they also might catch a big campaign donor or large business cheating like hell and we can't have that can we?

also lol uber is hosed if they go to jury. those emails paint them as the shithead power tripping boss that everyone hates.

# ? Mar 12, 2015 22:38

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

Shifty Pony posted:

idk if you've heard it but the IRS keeps pointing out that if they only were given the up front money to do investigations and enforcement they could return 100x the amount via stopping fraud. independent contractor fraud is one of the things they would target.

but they also might catch a big campaign donor or large business cheating like hell and we can't have that can we?

also lol uber is hosed if they go to jury. those emails paint them as the shithead power tripping boss that everyone hates.

unless they get a packed jury of uber-riding techbros

# ? Mar 12, 2015 22:41

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

ruby idiot railed posted:

unless they get a packed jury of uber-riding techbros

lol, like that type would deign to serve on a jury

# ? Mar 12, 2015 22:43

Beast of Bourbon: Sep 25, 2013; Pillbug

ruby idiot railed posted:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/usercp.php
unless they get a packed jury of uber-riding techbros

my favorite is uber claiming that a Superbowl promotion was actually GMT instead of an American timezone screwing literally every driver out of the bonus

# ? Mar 12, 2015 22:45

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

JawnV6 posted:

lol, like that type would deign to serve on a jury

got me there

# ? Mar 12, 2015 22:46

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 16:22

heated game moment: Oct 30, 2003; Lipstick Apathy

it's actually a little more gray area when it comes to employee vs contractor (otherwise it wouldn't be such a commonly contested issue) and it's also extremely common in certain industries such as construction and the previously mentioned entertainment. a lot of it is bc there is only case law based on all these subjective things like extent of control. as a tax professional I think they should just eliminate contractor status altogether outside of b2b payments but this would result in a lot of payments just being pushed underground and people bitching about paperwork and withholding until it got changed back

# ? Mar 12, 2015 23:04

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