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There's no way Wizards can meet all player expectations! I mean, a whole cycle of Kahns characters in an alternate timeline!? Literally impossible! There was no way we couldn't not have a lovely mind control in this rare slot! This was absofuckinglutely necessary to the form and function of Dragons of Tarkir! I'm Mark Rosewater and I sniff farts that make me think these bad rationalizations for my bad choices! Mogis is a fine commander for BR minotaurs! Yep!
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Mar 13, 2015 19:09
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Would a 5 mana Mind Control be (too) good for Standard?
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Mar 13, 2015 19:13
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Entropic posted:Whenever I read the comments on Maro's posts I'm impressed with how chill and friendly he remains 100% of the time despite being the guy who gets to deal with all the ranting feedback from entitled magic players. And when he's not dealing with entitled players, he's fielding the most inane questions imaginable: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/113526026323/what-what-color-would-cookie-monster-be
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Mar 13, 2015 19:14
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Rinkles posted:Would a 5 mana Mind Control be (too) good for Standard? Standard, no, Limited.........thats a debatable proposition, I'd be all for it, but it is a major blow out when a Mind Control resolves. They don't like printing good mind control's anymore because of that reason.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:14
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Starving Autist posted:And when he's not dealing with entitled players, he's fielding the most inane questions imaginable: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/113526026323/what-what-color-would-cookie-monster-be I think he likes it
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Mar 13, 2015 19:16
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Starving Autist posted:And when he's not dealing with entitled players, he's fielding the most inane questions imaginable: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/113526026323/what-what-color-would-cookie-monster-be To be fair he also wrote stuff like (paraphrased) "Elaine from Seinfeld embodies the color black, Homer Simpson is an example of the color red" so I guess people want to see how he would classify other fantasy characters as magic colors because it seems like something he enjoys making comparisons about.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:17
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The posts in this thread are last-pick trash.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:17
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Rinkles posted:Would a 5 mana Mind Control be (too) good for Standard? Absolutely not. Madmarker posted:Standard, no, A problem well solved by putting at rare or mythic. ...Which they did and then felt compelled to double down on by making it worse. With how often they use "may" abilities I'm surprised they didn't template it that way here.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:18
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UberJew posted:If you managed to get three of them I don't think you'd need to be LSV to make it work, the noncreature spells in DTK/DTK/FRF are really, really good. I'm more referencing that time he drafted three Goblinslides and somehow made it work. 
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Mar 13, 2015 19:20
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I think you guys are being a little harsh on the Mind Control variant. It has it's uses. You drop it early so it stops them from casting their bomb until they deal with it, which means using up another resource. Sure, they can get back their awesome dude you totally stole by casting a tiny duder, but then they still have to contend with it out there able to jack another guy,
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Mar 13, 2015 19:22
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TheKingofSprings posted:Absolutely not. Yeah it's weird because the "may move to clause" actually is a thing for Prison Term which is an Arrest that you can move around.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:23
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 They really don't want U/B control to lose to tokens, do they? Like...this is going straight into my sideboard for any black deck.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:26
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Rinkles posted:Would a 5 mana Mind Control be (too) good for Standard? Probably not, but it's a limited bomb. And they don't want to just straight up move Mind Control to rare because players would complain about getting ripped off when they open one. So they've turned to making wacky variants of it at rare.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:27
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Starving Autist posted:And when he's not dealing with entitled players, he's fielding the most inane questions imaginable: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/113526026323/what-what-color-would-cookie-monster-be I'm pretty sure he likes those questions because they don't require any thought whatsoever.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:28
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AlternateNu posted:
I think with all the cards they've seeded for that archetype they're just preemptively placing a stopgap measure on it. Abzan Advantage is maindecked in a lot of token decks right now and I don't see that changing, they've got enough filtering that they can dig for an answer and fight through a card like this.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:28
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It's obviously a weird, cute design that they wanted to put in because it's weird and cute, and had to put at rare for complexity/limited purposes. I actually do like it in Limited because if you cast it a bit later in the game, in topdeck mode, it means that if they draw their game-winning bomb dragon they can't safely cast it. I mean it's not great but it's not as terrible as that rare blue Guard Duty or anything.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:28
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a big carp or an old carp is still just a carp
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Mar 13, 2015 19:29
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suicidesteve posted:I love this idea, but they're just worse Norins. What would you take out? They're certainly worse than Norin #1, but much better than Norins 2-4. I'd probably go down to 3 Norins total and cut some Suture Priests.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:31
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AlternateNu posted:
Drown in Sorrow's ability to both sweep up tokens and the (highly relevant) small creatures is probably going to be better in enough cases that it isn't a mandatory card for every black deck sideboard. I feel like that's actually more of a board card for Abzan?/Sultai, who themselves are playing small creatures but not so much tokens, rather than U/B control.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:32
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 Pffft, hahaha. Ugin got punk'd.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:36
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Bread Set Jettison posted:a big carp or an old carp is still just a carp  And it was a crap carp too, so the homage is power-level appropriate. Poor fishes, they're such a bad tribe that their name gets stolen by Merfolk because people forget there actually are plain fish.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:37
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Entropic posted:That art has to be an homage to Dandân, right? That was a cool carp. The best fish isn't even a fish. (It's an elemental)
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Mar 13, 2015 19:38
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Zoness posted:The best fish isn't even a fish. its also a dragon and a god and now its an elder
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Mar 13, 2015 19:39
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:It's obviously a weird, cute design that they wanted to put in because it's weird and cute, and had to put at rare for complexity/limited purposes. I actually do like it in Limited because if you cast it a bit later in the game, in topdeck mode, it means that if they draw their game-winning bomb dragon they can't safely cast it. Hmm yes this is much more important than meeting player expectations that are very easily within their power to meet. There has to be a lovely mind control instead of completing a legendary creature cycle in this set that's 80% cycles by volume, after Wizards has printed, like, 2000 products specifically for an unusually popular variant format based around legendary creatures. There is literally no way to work Rebound into a creature. This one, cannot be, done........
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Mar 13, 2015 19:40
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Bread Set Jettison posted:its also a dragon and a god and now its an elder What man that wasn't a changeling joke I was talking about 
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Mar 13, 2015 19:40
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Bread Set Jettison posted:its also a dragon and a god and now its an elder are you talking about the Mutant Ninja Turtle? Zoness posted:What man that wasn't a changeling joke I was talking about Dude, I straight up thought you were talking about Mutavault. And I would argue that it probably is the best fish anyway, even over Muldrifter
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Mar 13, 2015 19:40
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I wonder where that fish has gone
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Mar 13, 2015 19:40
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Zoness posted:What man that wasn't a changeling joke I was talking about I wasnt making a changeling joke either   changeling isnt a creature typemulldrifter is the best fish
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Mar 13, 2015 19:42
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Entropic posted:Except he's a 1/2 in a format that cares about 2/2s. I don't think he's quite Gravedigger. This is true, but honestly I just want to try out a bunch of warriors brews, and he'll go into at least 2 of them at first. Also want to try out dash.dec, because it could be hilarious for a few games.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:43
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Zoness posted:To be fair he also wrote stuff like (paraphrased) "Elaine from Seinfeld embodies the color black, Homer Simpson is an example of the color red" so I guess people want to see how he would classify other fantasy characters as magic colors because it seems like something he enjoys making comparisons about. He said in a podcast about how the Simpson family each embodies a colour. I think Homer is black (or red) , Marge is white, Lisa is blue, Maggie is green, and Bart is the colour that Homer isn't. MaRo is a huge nerd basically. 
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Mar 13, 2015 19:44
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Hmm yes this is much more important than meeting player expectations that are very easily within their power to meet. There has to be a lovely mind control instead of completing a legendary creature cycle in this set that's 80% cycles by volume, after Wizards has printed, like, 2000 products specifically for an unusually popular variant format based around legendary creatures. There is literally no way to work Rebound into a creature. This one, cannot be, done........ dry those tears, petal, I wasn't saying Word 1 about Taigam and I do really think they should have made him (and, like not printing a legendary RG Werewolf in Innistrad, they will recognize this as a mistake pretty quickly). I'm just defending the printing of Illusory Gains which is a cool card printed for a good reason.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:44
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Hmm yes this is much more important than meeting player expectations that are very easily within their power to meet. There has to be a lovely mind control instead of completing a legendary creature cycle in this set that's 80% cycles by volume, after Wizards has printed, like, 2000 products specifically for an unusually popular variant format based around legendary creatures. There is literally no way to work Rebound into a creature. This one, cannot be, done........ Oh my god shut up.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:45
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The thing about Maro's job is that he can make one post like that where he assigns colors to characters from something as an example of the color philosophies and then nerds will forever and constantly until the end of time ask him "what color is X character from the thing Y?" and every time he answers one, it begets more.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:46
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AlternateNu posted:
This card is way too narrow to see serious play unless Tokens is oppressive.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:50
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Angry Grimace posted:This card is way too narrow to see serious play unless Tokens is oppressive. Holy poo poo, I agree with you.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:51
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mcmagic posted:Holy poo poo, I agree with you. Drown in Sorrow is just better because it hits both tokens and Manifests (which are not tokens) and UB Control has a very tough time with Mastery of the Unseen. There's no reason to run a super narrow card that extra-fucks one specific deck when you can run a less narrow card that regular-fucks a lot of other decks.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:52
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Not sure if it'd be actually useful, but Foul-Tongue Shriek might be playable in some fringe decks.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:54
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I mean that card is pretty bad and probably not playable in a non-core set draft, but Rise had commons like Aura finesse, Contaminated ground, Death Cultist, Demonic Appetite, Demystify, Eland Umbra, Fissure vent, Harmless Assault, Lay Bare, Haze Frog, Living Destiny, Nighthaze, Shared Discovery, Stalwart Shield-Bearers, plus the usual vanilla 2/1s for 2 and 2/3 for 3, plus things like Champion's Drake and Battle Rampart that look like they might be good if you set up properly but were actually unplayable. It was still a good format to draft but there was a LOT of unplayable to mediocre stuff.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:55
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How much play did Illness in the Ranks see? I don't remember anyone running it even in sideboards, and it shared a Standard with Lingering Souls.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:56
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Serperoth posted:He said in a podcast about how the Simpson family each embodies a colour. I think Homer is black (or red) , Marge is white, Lisa is blue, Maggie is green, and Bart is the colour that Homer isn't. Maro is awesome when he's just waxing philosophic about Magic or nerd things. I mean this unironically. He should have a job where his only responsibility is to take drugs all day and write about Magic. The bitter taste of Maro's batshit insanity comes because he is in a position of nearly unparalleled power over not just the card-to-card design but the arc of the game as a whole. From what I see, it seems like he has a few colleagues on his level and one or two people you could probably call his bosses (in an 'understand what he's doing and help direct him' way, not just a 'signs the paychecks' way). That means that if he gets a weird bug up his butt, the chance that he'll be stopped is limited. And you know what? Eighty or ninety percent of the time, it's still awesome. The other 10-20 percent, he gets so mad about nature mages being able to summon bees that he specifically assigns himself a new oversight position to ensure that such crimes can't go through to completion ever again. (I don't want to misrepresent facts, but my understanding is that he literally has done this in the aftermath of Hornetgate.) And you want to reconcile this with the cool person who talks to you about what color Homer Simpson would be or tells you neat playtest stories but the cognitive dissonance stacks up a little bit too high and so you end up making angry posts in the MTG thread about it as a way to release the pain.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:59
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