Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Throatwarbler posted:

It's loving hilarious that all these Anglo countries have huge industries of people writing books and poo poo that basically say "if you spend less money buying poo poo, you end up with more left over at the end of the month! Walla!".

I mean you do realize this is all pretty naked just-world-fallacy class warfare right? Yes it's definitely not the system that's rigged to benefit a privileged elite and to make rich people richer, poor people are poor and deserve to starve because they are "bad with money".

If this is class warfare then it's time to line up these dumb motehrfuckers against the wall

# ? Mar 14, 2015 06:24

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# ? May 10, 2024 04:26

Ccs: Feb 25, 2011

It seems like a lot of people bad with money know they are self-sabotaging, it's just they feel powerless to do anything about it. And because saving money sometimes does cost money, as this article explains:
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2014/12/linda_tirado_on_the_realities_of_living_in_bootstrap_america_daily_annoyances.html

Of course the above is in the case of actual poverty. It doesn't excuse people in the middle class who could survive and save by buying less, but still. It's good to have some understanding and compassion.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 15:41

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Ccs posted:

It seems like a lot of people bad with money know they are self-sabotaging, it's just they feel powerless to do anything about it. And because saving money sometimes does cost money, as this article explains:
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2014/12/linda_tirado_on_the_realities_of_living_in_bootstrap_america_daily_annoyances.html

Of course the above is in the case of actual poverty. It doesn't excuse people in the middle class who could survive and save by buying less, but still. It's good to have some understanding and compassion.

gently caress you. I've got no loving compassion for assholes gorging on their lines of credit buying $1200 strollers and driving BMWs because they think they're wealthier because their shitbox houses have gone up in value.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 16:03

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

I'm thinking of attending today's anti C-51 protest in my Sunday best and get on the terrorist watch list.

Or go shopping. Its kind of a toss up.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 16:23

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

quote:

Grateful economy helps out laid off workers who spent every last penny of their plum oil patch wages http://www.cheknews.ca/oil-patch-workers-flood-home-vancouver-island/ ht@georgepearkes

https://twitter.com/YVRHousing/status/576748423119970304

Poor out of work 6 figure earning ~oil patch~ workers eating from the food bank

# ? Mar 14, 2015 16:24

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Cultural Imperial posted:

gently caress you. I've got no loving compassion for assholes gorging on their lines of credit buying $1200 strollers and driving BMWs because they think they're wealthier because their shitbox houses have gone up in value.

$1200 isn't that outrageous for a stroller btw. One built well enough to survive the winter can cost 700-800 essy.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 17:11

Vaginapocalypse: Mar 15, 2013; B-but it's so hard being white! Waaaaaagh!

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

$1200 isn't that outrageous for a stroller btw. One built well enough to survive the winter can cost 700-800 essy.

Holy poo poo. Children sound like one of the worst financial decisions you can make.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 17:22

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

$1200 isn't that outrageous for a stroller btw. One built well enough to survive the winter can cost 700-800 essy.

Please.

You want to avoid the $15 Walmart strollers, but $700-1200 is ridiculous for one. They haven't increased THAT much in the decade since I bought one.

E: you can pretty easily spend 4-500 though, so I cannot recommend children as a financial strategy. My wife still reminds me that I should not have talked her out of flushing ours down the toilet when she was still small enough to fit.

ocrumsprug fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Mar 14, 2015

# ? Mar 14, 2015 17:26

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

$1200 isn't that outrageous for a stroller btw. One built well enough to survive the winter can cost 700-800 essy.

hahaha you're a loving idiot

# ? Mar 14, 2015 18:02

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

I'm going to stay over here in reality. Take it easy!

Btw a cursory glance at toys r us website shows they don't sell a single stroller for $1200. But keep beating that strawman!

Reince Penis fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Mar 14, 2015

# ? Mar 14, 2015 18:06

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Vaginapocalypse posted:

Holy poo poo. Children sound like one of the worst financial decisions you can make.

Getting a child is like a getting a pet, only it's 10 times as expensive.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 18:07

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.vancourier.com/news/little-mountain-group-aims-to-build-cohousing-complex-1.1781513

quote:

BUILDING COMMUNITY

Cohousing communities have emerged in various parts of B.C. over the years, including in Langley, North Vancouver and Burnaby. They�ve been slow to form in Vancouver due to the high cost of land, but the Kensington-Cedar Cottage project proved it�s not impossible and Little Mountain Cohousing hopes to follow suit.

Setting up a cohousing community isn�t simple, however. It�s a years-long commitment. The group Brondwin joined initially considered a seniors-only cohousing group in Kerrisdale, but members dropped the idea in favour a multi-generational community closer to Main Street in the Little Mountain neighbourhood. At one point, the group, with help from Alan Forrester, a land developer who understands cohousing, had an option on a two-lot parcel and went as far as submitting architectural drawings to the city to see if their proposal was possible. The city agreed it was possible, but the group concluded the site was too small, there weren�t enough equity members and the process was moving too quickly.

Little Mountain Cohousing is now searching for a larger, three-lot site with the assistance of Forrester, who was also involved in the land assembly for the East Vancouver cohousing project.

It�s also seeking more members to help finance the down payment.

Currently, it has two equity members � Brondwin and Pansy Chau, who each contributed $20,000, while a family with three children is taking steps to become the third equity member.

The group also has 11 associate members who pay a small membership fee and may buy units in the complex.

Cohousing groups typically need five to 10 equity members, depending on how much each contributes, to cover initial development costs and the down payment, according to Brondwin.

The rest of the financing is generated through bank loans.

Brondwin envisions a 25-to-30 unit building, with a purchase price of roughly $665 per square foot. That could translate to anywhere between $285,000 and $620,000, depending on the size of the suite, although concrete details have yet to be finalized.

�It�s not a cheap proposition and that�s why it tends to attract people that already have houses, so they already have some equity,� says Brondwin who explains the cost of a cohousing unit is often comparable to a similar-sized market unit in the same neighbourhood.

Cohousing�s advantage is that owners get their own private suite plus access to large common spaces, which often include outdoor areas, an office, a common kitchen for group meals, a guest room for visitors, as well as other common spaces such as a yoga room or a workshop. Space allocation is up to the needs of the cohousing group involved in designing the project.

Residents also benefit from social relationships within the community and the collective skills of the group. Older residents or stay-at-home parents may be able to help young families with childcare, while younger residents may be able to help older ones with trips to the doctor. Shared vehicles are common, which reduces transportation costs. It can also be easier to find someone with a shared interest such as gardening or hiking.

Decisions are made through consensus, with cohousing groups creating their own way of functioning, which may include many or few rules.

�Certainly, for people who are very strong-minded and not willing to cooperate, they would find it difficult to reach consensus because cohousing is about consensual decision-making,� Brondwin says. �So it�s not for people who find that tedious or who are not willing to spend the time doing that. However, the advantages [of cohousing] are so great.�

lol 700k to buy a loving dorm

# ? Mar 14, 2015 18:16

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

At least the pet will die before maturing enough to realize it has no real future or worse, one roughly analogous to a lovely F2P MMO grind.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 18:16

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Jesus Christ, this entire thread needs prozac or something.

"Waah, life is so hard and it'll never ever get better!"

# ? Mar 14, 2015 18:22

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

I'm going to stay over here in reality. Take it easy!

Btw a cursory glance at toys r us website shows they don't sell a single stroller for $1200. But keep beating that strawman!

http://www.crocodilebaby.com/p-1609-stokke-xplory-stroller.aspx

It would be funnier if it was a strawman.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 18:25

OhYeah: Jan 20, 2007; 1. Currently the most prevalent form of decision-making in the western world

2. While you are correct in saying that the society owns

3. You have not for a second demonstrated here why

4. I love the way that you equate "state" with "bureaucracy". Is that how you really feel about the state

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/11467864/Its-the-worlds-biggest-house-for-sale-and-its-top-secret.html

A 12th century castle in Toscana vs an apartment central London. Hmm, that's a tough one...

# ? Mar 14, 2015 18:41

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Bloomberg had a neat video showing why despite the massive cuts in number of rigs, it actually will not rebalance supply and demand.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-03-05/why-cheap-oil-doesn-t-stop-the-drilling

Basically counter intuitive:
-Low oil price just shuts down higher cost rigs
-Certain areas can still produce oil at a profit price point or can scale up supply still very fast in terms of production each day
-sunks costs due to high capex cost for the new rigs
-Despite rig cuts US oil production actually increased by 8%

etalian fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Mar 14, 2015

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:43

ChairMaster: Aug 22, 2009; by R. Guyovich

PT6A posted:

Jesus Christ, this entire thread needs prozac or something.

"Waah, life is so hard and it'll never ever get better!"

Do you have like

some evidence to the contrary or something?

ChairMaster fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Mar 14, 2015

# ? Mar 14, 2015 23:30

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

ChairMaster posted:

Do you have like

some evidence to the contrary or something?

Fuckin' a, man. Every day's a great day to be alive.

I made some delicious food, and drank some very tasty wine this week. Tonight I expect I'll go to the pub to drink beer and watch hockey. Sure, work was still a pain in the rear end, but that's just the way life goes sometimes.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 23:43

ChairMaster: Aug 22, 2009; by R. Guyovich

PT6A posted:

Fuckin' a, man. Every day's a great day to be alive.

I made some delicious food, and drank some very tasty wine this week. Tonight I expect I'll go to the pub to drink beer and watch hockey. Sure, work was still a pain in the rear end, but that's just the way life goes sometimes.

Well yea, coming from one of the wealthier people in perhaps the last generation that can expect a real career in this country. 20 or 30 or 50 years from now it's gonna be like 10% people with as much money as you and 10% with more and 80% with way way less.

ChairMaster fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Mar 14, 2015

# ? Mar 14, 2015 23:47

Ccs: Feb 25, 2011

Is Canada really in that bad financial shape compared the US? The NY Times reported that Canada's middle class actually surpassed the US in earnings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?hp&_r=1&abt=0002&abg=0

The housing debt bubble thing is scary, but the next generation of Canadians won't have as much student loan debt as American students, so that could provide a bit of an economic advantage. Especially for those lucky students in Quebec who go to college nearly free.

I mean, we all know Germany probably has the world's best economy right now, and the northern European countries like Norway are really nice, but Canada doesn't seem to be in such bad shape.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 04:37

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

Ccs posted:

Is Canada really in that bad financial shape compared the US? The NY Times reported that Canada's middle class actually surpassed the US in earnings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?hp&_r=1&abt=0002&abg=0

The housing debt bubble thing is scary, but the next generation of Canadians won't have as much student loan debt as American students, so that could provide a bit of an economic advantage. Especially for those lucky students in Quebec who go to college nearly free.

I mean, we all know Germany probably has the world's best economy right now, and the northern European countries like Norway are really nice, but Canada doesn't seem to be in such bad shape.

Canada doesnt have even one tenth of the market and producing power the US has, so a housing bubble or commodity crash sets the country back much farther. Jobs dont bounce back here like they can down there.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 04:45

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

I'd like to see this table updated by next year.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 04:55

Grand Theft Autobot: Feb 28, 2008; I'm something of a fucking idiot myself

PT6A posted:

Fuckin' a, man. Every day's a great day to be alive.

I made some delicious food, and drank some very tasty wine this week. Tonight I expect I'll go to the pub to drink beer and watch hockey. Sure, work was still a pain in the rear end, but that's just the way life goes sometimes.

Your life sounds pointless and lovely.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 05:05

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Grand Theft Autobot posted:

Your life sounds pointless and lovely.

Pointless, yes, as is everyone's. But I don't see that as a bad thing.

lovely? Not a chance. What could be better than enjoying the nicest things this world offers us, and spending time with friends, family, and even drunken conversations with strangers?

Frankly, having a purpose in life beyond enjoying it would probably be no fun at all.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 05:32

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Ccs posted:

Is Canada really in that bad financial shape compared the US? The NY Times reported that Canada's middle class actually surpassed the US in earnings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?hp&_r=1&abt=0002&abg=0

The housing debt bubble thing is scary, but the next generation of Canadians won't have as much student loan debt as American students, so that could provide a bit of an economic advantage. Especially for those lucky students in Quebec who go to college nearly free.

I mean, we all know Germany probably has the world's best economy right now, and the northern European countries like Norway are really nice, but Canada doesn't seem to be in such bad shape.

I believe the original article was not about earnings, but wealth of the middle class.

If the US wants to catch back up all you need to do is say your houses are worth 2-3x what they currently are. That's how we did it.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 05:39

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

https://twitter.com/robwilliamsNY/status/576948200935931904/photo/1

# ? Mar 15, 2015 05:43

Freezer: Apr 20, 2001; The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever.

ocrumsprug posted:

I believe the original article was not about earnings, but wealth of the middle class.

If the US wants to catch back up all you need to do is say your houses are worth 2-3x what they currently are. That's how we did it.

Huh? The article does explicitly refer to median wage trends in several countries. I do wonder whether it's PPP adjusted tough.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 06:22

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Freezer posted:

Huh? The article does explicitly refer to median wage trends in several countries. I do wonder whether it's PPP adjusted tough.

I doubt it, and that's probably going to hurt Canadians now that CAD is at 75 cents USD and likely to drop further. I bet the retailers who bothered to keep prices at rough parity with the US are just salivating at the prospect of applying 30% + markups.

On the other hand, taken at face value, those figures suggest that the middle third of Canadian earners are increasing incomes more than Americans are, and that income inequality is not worsening as much as in the US - something that was mentioned here or in CanPol a few months ago. None of this means that things are particularly great here, just that they're worse in the US.

Of course much of this will probably get thrown out the window when the property bubble bursts. You could say the same about the reinflating bubble in the US too, but it's not quite as bad and they also have a real economy behind it.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 10:59

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.

Ccs posted:

Is Canada really in that bad financial shape compared the US? The NY Times reported that Canada's middle class actually surpassed the US in earnings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?hp&_r=1&abt=0002&abg=0

2014-04-23: 1 CAD = .9069 USD
2015-03-13: 1 CAD = .7811 USD

This is nearly a 14% decrease. That first graph shows Canadian income catching up to U.S. income and surpassing it slightly, but it's doubtful that Canada's middle class has ever earned more in terms of purchasing power.

Given the nominal prices of things on both sides of the border, .75-.85 is probably the "correct" USD/CAD exchange rate if you want real prices to be the same.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 14:44

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Furnaceface posted:

Canada doesnt have even one tenth of the market and producing power the US has, so a housing bubble or commodity crash sets the country back much farther. Jobs dont bounce back here like they can down there.

Canada also has other problems such as new grads not being able to find work or how the economy is now heavily tilted towards the natural resources/finance sectors.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 15:55

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

etalian posted:

Canada also has other problems such as new grads not being able to find work or how the economy is now heavily tilted towards the natural resources/finance sectors.

Excuse me, new grads have great opportunities to find work in the natural resources and finance sectors.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 16:14

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

New grad? Get a job as a realtor.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 16:29

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Cultural Imperial posted:

New grad? Get a job as a realtor.

lol

http://business.financialpost.com/2014/05/09/canada-housing-bubble-agents/

# ? Mar 15, 2015 16:53

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

etalian posted:

lol

http://business.financialpost.com/2014/05/09/canada-housing-bubble-agents/

This is the part of the bubble people seem to gloss over he most. Im not sure if its hilarious or terrifying, but either way there are going to be more than just a sudden influx of unemployed construction workers when this thing falls apart.

Like holy poo poo 5 of the people I grew up with are now realtors. They have no backup plan. This is their oil patch. :psyduck:

# ? Mar 16, 2015 00:32

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

My wifes company is switching from new home construction to a lot more foundation repair which is great because Manitoba's economy is going to keep chugging along at an OK pace but the housing bubble starting to leak means less people building new homes and more people trying to keep their houses from falling apart because they know they're stuck with them.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 00:36

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

EvilJoven posted:

My wifes company is switching from new home construction to a lot more foundation repair which is great because Manitoba's economy is going to keep chugging along at an OK pace but the housing bubble starting to leak means less people building new homes and more people trying to keep their houses from falling apart because they know they're stuck with them.

Given the construction quality of new builds in the past fifteen years, repair services should be boomin' for at least another ten.

Assuming that arson doesn't become wildly popular all of a sudden. :v:

# ? Mar 16, 2015 00:56

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

The entire house flipping industry has left her with tons of work because there are quite a few houses that have been passed around like a hot potato until the patches pop off and whoever owns it has their entire basement literally condemned.

EDIT: LOL those stupidly priced condos her company did the foundations and framing for are still on the market, still at insane prices. They will never sell.

EvilJoven fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Mar 16, 2015

# ? Mar 16, 2015 01:07

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

How about cleaning up and sanitising homes of suicide victims

# ? Mar 16, 2015 01:08

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# ? May 10, 2024 04:26

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

ocrumsprug posted:

Please.

You want to avoid the $15 Walmart strollers, but $700-1200 is ridiculous for one. They haven't increased THAT much in the decade since I bought one.

E: you can pretty easily spend 4-500 though, so I cannot recommend children as a financial strategy. My wife still reminds me that I should not have talked her out of flushing ours down the toilet when she was still small enough to fit.

$4-$500 for a stroller still seems pretty dumb.
I'm not sure what this one offers at $580.00 http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=12296266
that justifies a $480.00 higher price than this one: http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=12849502

The cup holder I guess? More under-seat storage?

# ? Mar 16, 2015 01:35

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