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V for Vegas posted:Wang is the pinyin spelling of the character 王 (Emperor). It is pronounced 'wong' in Chinese and the Chinese do not really have a sound that matches the hard, nasal Australian 'wang'. Right, so just remember Wang/Huang is pronounced like Aung San Suu Kyi. Pinyin isn't the fix-all it promised to be I guess, but at least it's better than Wade-Giles. It's so irritating to keep seeing Wade-Giles especially from Taiwanese writers - I'm reading a rather good ebook on Guan-yin, spelt variously Kwan-yin or Kuan-yin/Kuan-shih-yin, and it's Wade-Giles and I give up trying to pronounce any of it.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 04:55 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 04:15 |
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Mr Chips posted:Except that the Shanghai ranking doesn't seem to look at teaching at all, and it's only 30% on the THE rankings (even then it's just a survey on perception of prestige, ffs). Anything that includes education is going to favour small universities like Cal Tech which only admit high achieving students, so Australian unis will struggle due to their relatively large and generalist student populations. So you are saying a league table without the participants being in a league with defined rules on the table positions is just bulshit. I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 04:59 |
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ewe2 posted:Right, so just remember Wang/Huang is pronounced like Aung San Suu Kyi. Pinyin isn't the fix-all it promised to be I guess, but at least it's better than Wade-Giles. It's so irritating to keep seeing Wade-Giles especially from Taiwanese writers - I'm reading a rather good ebook on Guan-yin, spelt variously Kwan-yin or Kuan-yin/Kuan-shih-yin, and it's Wade-Giles and I give up trying to pronounce any of it. Got any of that Sing-tao beer? Looks like Hockey might get up on some of the defamation points. One of Fairfax's best defences was that you can't just look at the headline 'treasurer for sale', but you have to read the entire article which gives context. But, Hockey is also suing that the advertising boards out the front of newsagents with the headline only is a separate 'publication' and contains no such context.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 05:04 |
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MC Eating Disorder posted:Anyway if you're like most Australians who find out they're 1/8th aboriginal or whatever your reaction is more likely to be 'sweet I can get those abbo benefits now' followed by impotent rage at Centrelink and accusations of some conspiracy against white people so it's not like a magic empathy ticket for indigenous Australians or anything "Hey centerlink, turns out I'm 1/64th blackfulla. Give me some of that sweet sweet aborigine dole" *dole is immediately cut in half and replaced with foodstamps that can only be cashed in for half their value in dalwallenulunup for some reason*
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 05:34 |
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I, Butthole posted:More likely Pyne doesn't want a soundbite of him saying "wang" out there on the internet. He knows what we do. There's no way in hell Pyne is that self aware
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 05:38 |
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Gough Suppressant posted:There's no way in hell Pyne is that self aware see you next tuesday?
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 06:08 |
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Pyne DJs Like A Mad Grub
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 06:25 |
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V for Vegas posted:Got any of that Sing-tao beer? Possibly but the defence raised some very good points also, and Justice White has a lot of written submission homework to read too. It's going to be a more detailed issue that people might think.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 06:27 |
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i hate hockey but that poo poo was slander
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 06:32 |
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Taking money in exchange for direct access is basically the definition of a politician being for sale. Defamation doesn't deal with literal interpretations though, it deals with imputation and the imputation if the headline is that he's corrupt. We all know that's true because he's A) a politician and B) a member of the Liberal party, but they gave to prove it in court to beat him. The best outcome is that the herald loses and sets the precedent that the poster board headlines are highly actionable publications and the daily telegraph immediately goes out of business under the weight of twelve billion defamation claims.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 06:45 |
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Ok another effortpost based entirely on the awesome tweets of @MWhitbourn: Final trial day or is it?? (summing-up): So the day began with a tussle over Fairfax's silk Collins tendering evidence. Fairfax did not succeed in tendering the member list of Noth Shore Forum into evidence (Evidence Act for some reason, IANAL). McClintock objecting to everything possible, including reader reactions to the article of all things. Written submissions also tendered, so a lot of homework for Justice White tonight. Collins goes first and suggests that Hockey's silk has put the worst interpretation of the story possible. It is NOT what a reasonable reader would find, and gives specific examples of where this has not held in defamation cases. Describes issues of where Hockey is taking meanings from the article that does not apply, eg a link to Obeids. Fairfax is using the defence of "qualified privilege", which our tweeter doesn't completely define but seems to be that they acted on incomplete information which was difficult or impossible to improve eg Sean Nicholls couldn't go to a NSF meeting because he'd have to disclose that he is a journalist, or Hockey's office did not answer questions they needed to answer concerning the issues they raise in the article. The problem of secrecy impeded the gathering of information also eg the way the fundraising was disclosed, and the access the forum got to Hockey. Collins then attacked Hockey's evidence thoroughly, and suggested to White that his evidence was misleading and not transparent and the misleading claims made about the forum are still on public view. Now Collins addresses malice, which I always thought would be an important thing (since McClintock spent so much time on it) and it defeats the qualified privilege defence if proven. He rejects the plaintiff's argument that timing suggested malice and asks that it needs serious proof, not the hearsay advanced by plantiff. Then a lunch break, and McClintock's turn: McClintock notes that qualified privilege was the defence in the Lange case (referred to by defence). It is still defamation even if the reader disbelieves it. Says there is nothing to defend the phrase "Treasurer for sale" and refers to the advertisements using that phrase, because Hockey is also suing on those advertisements (which gives you some idea of how certain he was about this case. Think about that, its a 2 for 1 he wants.). Then McClintock outlines what he thinks a reasonable reader would infer and predictably he thinks its "corruption". Attacks the SMH as a tabloid. Says the mere mention of Obeid is a watchword for corruption (easy there tiger, Eddie has a reputation too!). Claims that defence of qualified privilege re malice fails because they did not take reasonable steps to get or publish Hockey's response (I think this is amazingly self-serving, but they can get away with it). Then talks up how the defence usually fails (that's up to the judge, surely). At this point White straight out asks McClintock what his definition of "access" to Hockey means. McClintock doesn't answer this directly but attacks the headline again for suggesting that Hockey sold his access (a mistake I think. The judge compared the CWA with the NSF and McClintock didn't address that at all). Jumps right on to malice, and centres his attack on SMH ed Goodsir, claiming everything about his communications about the article were malicious. But we're out of time for today and McClintock gets to finish TOMORROW because he doesn't want to rush things. So I hope lawyery types might peek at this and give some ideas, but basically I think unless McClintock pulls out a rabbit tomorrow, its still line ball. I think they knew all along that malice was going to be the way to sell their case to the judge or at least get something favourable so that the advertisements case will automatically win also. Right now that's not looking very strong to me, but he may still address why they stonewalled Nicholls when he asked for comment because that and the issue of the selling of access counts very much in the defence's favour. Smegmatron posted:The best outcome is that the herald loses and sets the precedent that the poster board headlines are highly actionable publications and the daily telegraph immediately goes out of business under the weight of twelve billion defamation claims. I couldn't help but smirk derisively at half the Hun's headlines of just last Fridays which were all textbook cases of this also.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 06:53 |
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I think this is going to turn on whether the imputations were conveyed. If they weren't, then game over for Hockey. If they were, I don't think the QP defence will stand up. Not because of maliciousness (which is a very high bar of itself) but that you really have to show you did everything possible to clear the story first. That's where the comment by White J that the email to Hockey's staff didn't contain 'the sting' of the article was quite telling. That was a nod to the fact he may be considering Fairfax fell short of the QP requirements.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:25 |
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i still hope hockey loses but lol a clear hitpiece
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:34 |
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V for Vegas posted:Wang is the pinyin spelling of the character 王 (Emperor). It is pronounced 'wong' in Chinese and the Chinese do not really have a sound that matches the hard, nasal Australian 'wang'. The other way around, actually. 王 (Emperor) is pronounced "wang" in Putonghua / Mandarin Chinese / 普通話 (i.e. the official language of PRC and Taiwan), and Putonghua / Mandarin Chinese / 普通話 does not have a sound that matches "wong". For the sake of clarity, in this case the "wang" is pronounced as "wah-ng" and not "when-ng". However, 王 is pronounced as "Wong" in Cantonese (i.e. the dialect spoken in Guangdong). JosephWongKS fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Mar 16, 2015 |
# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:37 |
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Question about metadata - is it possible to set up an application or plugin that will spam/touch websites, send emails to ministers, etc to overload/fill up databases? It would be really nice to have a backup 'gently caress you' option when it passes. Sort of like a digital protest down Swanston st bringing everything to a stop. ISP's could probably just cancel an account when something like that happens for too long though
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:40 |
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JosephWongKS posted:The other way around, actually. 王 (Emperor) is pronounced "wang" in Putonghua / Mandarin Chinese / 普通話 (i.e. the official language of PRC and Taiwan), and Putonghua / Mandarin Chinese / 普通話 does not have a sound that matches "wong". For the sake of clarity, in this case the "wang" is pronounced as "wah-ng" and not "when-ng". It's a spectrum.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:49 |
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Endman posted:The funniest thing about sandstone universities is that UTAS is one of those. top 2% in the world, m8
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:50 |
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dordreff posted:But has it changed your views on cyanide suppositories? I still have a chuckle every now and then about it as I read some of the lesser barbs posted on these forums.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:50 |
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pitiless racist says wot lol
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:51 |
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Goffer posted:Question about metadata - is it possible to set up an application or plugin that will spam/touch websites, send emails to ministers, etc to overload/fill up databases? It would be really nice to have a backup 'gently caress you' option when it passes. Sort of like a digital protest down Swanston st bringing everything to a stop. Sending emails to ministers is a good idea, but everything else is a bad idea. All the metadata is going to be stored with the ISPs anyway, so you're really doing nothing but driving up the cost of your own internet bill as ISPs purchase more storage in order to store your poo poo.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:52 |
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o no
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:54 |
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JosephWongKS posted:The other way around, actually. 王 (Emperor) is pronounced "wang" in Putonghua / Mandarin Chinese / 普通話 (i.e. the official language of PRC and Taiwan), and Putonghua / Mandarin Chinese / 普通話 does not have a sound that matches "wong". For the sake of clarity, in this case the "wang" is pronounced as "wah-ng" and not "when-ng". Oh wat now I am all confuseld. V for Vegas posted:I think this is going to turn on whether the imputations were conveyed. If they weren't, then game over for Hockey. If they were, I don't think the QP defence will stand up. Not because of maliciousness (which is a very high bar of itself) but that you really have to show you did everything possible to clear the story first. That's where the comment by White J that the email to Hockey's staff didn't contain 'the sting' of the article was quite telling. That was a nod to the fact he may be considering Fairfax fell short of the QP requirements. Good points, but they at least made the effort, and that may be important. I think it's very line ball on that, they didn't even get to first base no matter what material they were putting forward. Nicholls didn't know about the headline, that came afterwards and the whole plaintiff case revolves around it (for obvious reasons, like another specific case that would be automatically a win if they win this one). There's a lot to balance on both sides here.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:54 |
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Goffer posted:Question about metadata - is it possible to set up an application or plugin that will spam/touch websites, send emails to ministers, etc to overload/fill up databases? It would be really nice to have a backup 'gently caress you' option when it passes. Sort of like a digital protest down Swanston st bringing everything to a stop. http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/12/16/dont-waste-your-time-waste-theirs-a-guide-to-writing-to-ministers/ quote:
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:55 |
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 07:56 |
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If I was a judge I'd throw hockey in jail for being a stupid fat poo poo and that's probably why I'm not a judge
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 08:05 |
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TheHeadSage posted:Sending emails to ministers is a good idea, but everything else is a bad idea. All the metadata is going to be stored with the ISPs anyway, so you're really doing nothing but driving up the cost of your own internet bill as ISPs purchase more storage in order to store your poo poo. Yeah I guess they're going to make ISPs pay for it then it's not really hitting them where it hurts. Thanks jumpingmanjim for that too, might write a letter or three.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 08:06 |
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Yeah I just wanted to say thanks also, Jumpingmanjim. That was rather insightful and will come in handy with my writing in the future, cheers man!
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 08:18 |
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Goffer posted:Yeah I guess they're going to make ISPs pay for it then it's not really hitting them where it hurts. While the government has promised to provide assistance to the ISPs in implementing this scheme, current word on the street that it'll be nowhere near enough to cover costs. Hence why iiNet are talking about marketing any price rises caused by this bill as the Liberals Great Big Tax on the Internet in the hope that this will make the bill go away.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 08:19 |
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Goffer posted:Question about metadata - is it possible to set up an application or plugin that will spam/touch websites, send emails to ministers, etc to overload/fill up databases? It would be really nice to have a backup 'gently caress you' option when it passes. Sort of like a digital protest down Swanston st bringing everything to a stop. apart from address and billing details of the account holders, has the other data to be retained been defined in any useful way? The bill to amend the telecomms act itself is horribly vague: 187A (2): The kinds of information prescribed for the purposes of paragraph (1)(a) must relate to one or more of the following matters: .. (b) the source of a communication; 2 (c) the destination of a communication; 3 (d) the date, time and duration of a communication, or of its 4 connection to a relevant service; 5 (e) the type of a communication, or a type of relevant service 6 used in connection with a communication; 7 (f) the location of equipment, or a line, used in connection with a 8 communication. I mean, gently caress, is the source: - a physical location, - a street address, - an ipv4/6 address, - a DNS entry? - some of the above? - all of the above? How are they going to record the metadat if I'm communicating via google hangouts and switch devices while I'm on the bus? Or maybe all the government wants the ISP to collect is information to the effect that Mr Chips from 01/01/2015 to 01/02/2015 had an ADSL service at address X that was connected to the local telephone exchange? Vagueness of the requirement aside, another lovely thing about collecting this IP address logs as metadata is it lack of precision and inability to expose intent, which lends itself to abuse. Things like "an ISP account in your name was used to contact a server hosting kiddie porn" is something that metadata can be used to imply, even though you were not actually accessing the material in question. Never mind that the data itself will not be santised, so they'll be collecting all sorts of erroneous info.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 08:27 |
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Mr Chips posted:Vagueness of the requirement aside, another lovely thing about collecting this IP address logs as metadata is it lack of precision and inability to expose intent, which lends itself to abuse. Things like "an ISP account in your name was used to contact a server hosting kiddie porn" is something that metadata can be used to imply, even though you were not actually accessing the material in question. Never mind that the data itself will not be santised, so they'll be collecting all sorts of erroneous info. a single web host can host a multitude of different sites from a different IP, right? So if you visited a site hosted by e.g. godaddy which happened to also host a radical islamist site under the same IP address, there'd be no distinction--unless the specific http address was also recorded, in which case it's not just METAdata retention, right?
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 08:53 |
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The problem is that the vagueness can be 'tightened' by Ministerial decree and only once the regulation has been gazetted does the senate have the opportunity to strike it down. This is some of the worst legislation ever put before an Australian parliament.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 08:57 |
Brisbane Breakfast Meet with a Minister. Seriously, I want some suggestions of where you people are happy to go. Since I live in the Stafford electorate, anywhere is close to me and I have a car. Those goons without cars and personal transport options, where is easy for you to get to because if you want to attend, you have to be able to get there. Who wants to come, how many do I book, where and when. All my saturdays are free and I wake up early anyway.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 08:59 |
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Cartoon posted:The problem is that the vagueness can be 'tightened' by Ministerial decree and only once the regulation has been gazetted does the senate have the opportunity to strike it down. This is some of the worst legislation ever put before an Australian parliament. Well, the vagueness can also be settled by the courts, but depending on the outcome all they'd have to do is amend the legislation to remove the ambiguity
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 09:00 |
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Kommando posted:
Something close to Chermside (though not IN Chermside on a weekend FFS) would be good. Stafford itself has no train station and not many buses. IDK what's good in the northside area though. You and Anidav would have a better handle on that, I presume. The Before Times fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Mar 16, 2015 |
# ? Mar 16, 2015 09:09 |
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Mithranderp posted:a single web host can host a multitude of different sites from a different IP, right? This legislation may impose on web hosting providers a requirement to log all incoming access requests. It's hard to tell, of course, as every potentially affected business has to submit a plan for capturing the data to the AGD for approval. Of course, there's SFA info out there on what an appropriate plan looks like, and I suspect there will be a huge backlog as thousands of ISPs, hosting providers and comms providers have to submit their plans. gently caress, will mail server admins have to record metadata for every single piece of spam their users receive?
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 09:18 |
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Mr Chips posted:Yes, multiple domain names can point to the same IP address. Just to make things more interesting, a domain name can also point to multiple IP addressess. And then there are CDNs that further muddy the water. Might just be easier for Aussie content hosts to shift their operations to NZ / Singapore than try and operate here. My prediction is that the cost is going to blow out incredibly quickly, and it'll be (in large part) because of this vagueness.
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 09:21 |
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Kommando posted:
i am in so hard. do we want to suit up and go somewhere flash, or trick the minister into macca's breakfast?
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 09:22 |
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Turns out we were being to hard on old Pyne, apparently he's a fixer, and he fixed it: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=400865080094904&fref=nf ....
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 09:25 |
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 09:30 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 04:15 |
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What happened to their intro music? Did the ABC cut Clarke and Dawe's funding as well?
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# ? Mar 16, 2015 09:31 |