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BrianWilly posted:Now...okay, we make fun of the Finches' new Wonder Woman katars, but I'm gonna say something here that none of you are gonna like: isn't it the exact sort of thing that feels totally appropriate for the Wonder Woman as envisioned by Brian Azzarello? Isn't it the exact logical conclusion of the Wonder Woman world he created that is all about the grimdark and the war and the strife and the bracers that create weapons out of thin air -- all sharp edges and pauldrons and militaristic stances and intimidation -- and not so much about either Wonders or Women? You mean the Wonder Woman that seeks to abolish archaic practices within the amazons and to unite the men and women as one nation? The same WW that refuses to give herself in to godhood, thus the restraining bracers? THAT Wonder Woman?
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Mar 14, 2015 06:16
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Yeah.
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Mar 14, 2015 06:17
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Who knows where the costume design comes from? I haven't really thought to associate it to the Finches. I like the costume. It does make sense for her and if they designed it, props, but I'm not gonna read the comic (e: unless there's huge turnaround praise for it. Who knows.) I'll see it in Tomasi and Mahnke's one! Action, SM/BM and SM/WW are going straight into a crossover, so I assume the new Superman look is built out of whatever they're doing, and in Pak and Kuder I trust 
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 08:00
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Semper Fudge posted:Taking a risk and allowing the creative team to personalize the book to their tastes while having a back-up plan to fall back on that suits a more traditional taste, yes I imagine this is precisely how they feel and why they have justified looser continuity. Were you like trying to trap me in my own logic or something? That's not what you said in the post I quoted, bud.
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Mar 14, 2015 09:51
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Teenage Fansub posted:Who knows where the costume design comes from? I haven't really thought to associate it to the Finches. I don't think the 3-4 Supes titles are crossing over, seems like it's a status quo that each title is dealing with in its own way judging by how Pak and GLY have talked about it. At the very least Pak is starting off the story so it looks like he's got a major role in the story rather than getting roped into an event. Like you, I trust Pak in any case. Doomed turned out surprisingly well in Pak's issues for a story that sounds really dumb as a concept. BrianWilly posted:Now...okay, we make fun of the Finches' new Wonder Woman katars, but I'm gonna say something here that none of you are gonna like: isn't it the exact sort of thing that feels totally appropriate for the Wonder Woman as envisioned by Brian Azzarello? Isn't it the exact logical conclusion of the Wonder Woman world he created that is all about the grimdark and the war and the strife and the bracers that create weapons out of thin air -- all sharp edges and pauldrons and militaristic stances and intimidation -- and not so much about either Wonders or Women? I really don't see how Wonder Woman under Azzarello is some militant grimdark killer. I can only remember her killing a total of one character in the entire run, the actual villains she dealt with she redeemed or tried to redeem through showing compassion. She became the god of war but instead it became a duality to the concept in that she still showed mercy to characters like First Born and the way she grew into the role suggested she was trying to do something very different to Ares. If anything the point of her becoming god of war was intended to be a kind of twisted irony for the character most commonly representing love and peace and the whole dynamic was about Wonder Woman bringing her own principles and beliefs to the role and changing it. This has been the theme of Azz's run in general- that she reforms the old and oppressive ways. The new design doesn't really reflect some evil grimdark thing in any case, it's just overdesigned and has stupid unnecessary elements- there's an edit that takes off the spikes on the bracer and tones down a bunch of other things and it looks kinda decent. It's still not great though compared to Chiang's armour and battle skirt and Fabok's new costume. All in all I think you're grossly misrepresenting Azz's run- I mean it's obvious from your posts that you don't care for it and that's fine but it's really nothing like what you're making it out to be. Just because Azz plays up the less politically correct family friendly elements of Greek mythology doesn't mean he isn't still being true to Wonder Woman by taking her idealistic and optimistic qualities and putting it in such a contrasting setting. AFoolAndHisMoney fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 10:26
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AFoolAndHisMoney posted:I don't think the 3-4 Supes titles are crossing over, The solicits call it a storyline across titles ("TRUTH"!) http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/03/10/lets-start-frankensteining-dc-solicitations-june-2015/ e: It'd be cool if it wasn't really and is just shared status quo, cause I'd like to see the new Superman writer start with his own arc. Where have they been talking? I don't think I've seen that. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 10:37
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Teenage Fansub posted:The solicits call it a storyline across titles ("TRUTH"!) Here's the source for where I got that: http://herocomplex.latimes.com/comics/superman-gene-luen-yang-john-romita-jr-chart-heros-vulnerability-dual-identity/#/0 "GLY: We’re trying to figure out something that will take him through a big chunk of time. We’ve been talking about 10 months to a year’s worth of story. Superman, because he’s such an important character in the DC Universe, there are four titles where he’s one of the main stars. There’s “Superman,” there’s “Batman/Superman,” “Superman/Wonder Woman” and “Action Comics.” All of the writers of these books [Yang, Greg Pak and Peter J. Tomasi], we got together for a conference in New York a couple weeks ago to just talk through the character, talk through some sort of a premise that would be able to go through all those books. That was the tricky part, coming up with some kind of a premise that would both give us as writers the freedom to tell stories with our own voices, but also give all of these books a sense of unity." Emphasis on that last sentence, it's ultimately quite a vague way of putting it but that's how it sounded to me.
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Mar 14, 2015 10:57
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I just picked up the Comixology JLA collection #6 to start reading the Joe Kelly/Doug Mahnke run again and realized I'd previously skipped right over Mark Waid's lot between Morrison and Kelly (the comics covered in collection #5 https://www.comixology.com/JLA-1997-2006-Vol-5/digital-comic/101908?ref=c2VhcmNoL2luZGV4L2Rlc2t0b3Avc2xpZGVyTGlzdC9pdGVtU2xpZGVy) How was that run? I've just Googled for opinions and found a blog post that's pretty down on the whole thing.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:12
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Teenage Fansub posted:I just picked up the Comixology JLA collection #6 to start reading the Joe Kelly/Doug Mahnke run again and realized I'd previously skipped right over Mark Waid's lot between Morrison and Kelly (the comics covered in collection #5 https://www.comixology.com/JLA-1997-2006-Vol-5/digital-comic/101908?ref=c2VhcmNoL2luZGV4L2Rlc2t0b3Avc2xpZGVyTGlzdC9pdGVtU2xpZGVy)
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Mar 15, 2015 15:50
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Teenage Fansub posted:I just picked up the Comixology JLA collection #6 to start reading the Joe Kelly/Doug Mahnke run again and realized I'd previously skipped right over Mark Waid's lot between Morrison and Kelly (the comics covered in collection #5 https://www.comixology.com/JLA-1997-2006-Vol-5/digital-comic/101908?ref=c2VhcmNoL2luZGV4L2Rlc2t0b3Avc2xpZGVyTGlzdC9pdGVtU2xpZGVy) It is a good run with a couple of weirdo hiccups.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:52
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Got to at least read Tower of Babel, and see how Batman earned Wizard magazines Villain of the Year award.
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Mar 15, 2015 18:18
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I remember that arc. I thought Batman's tricks for disabling the JLA were just a tad too outlandish.
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Mar 15, 2015 19:57
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Baron Bifford posted:I remember that arc. I thought Batman's tricks for disabling the JLA were just a tad too outlandish. It was Waid trying to out-Morrison Grant Morrison. I never really cared for that arc and I hated the stigma it tossed on Batman that lasted until 2007 or so. And then Hitch came on the book and couldn't cut a monthly schedule so things started sliding, they used lovely fill-in artists, switched to crappier paper and Waid finally had enough and bailed.
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Mar 15, 2015 20:03
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I liked the two story arcs which followed "Tower of Babel" (the one where the Queen of Fables kidnaps Wonder Woman, who she mistakes for her ancient enemy Snow White, only to be beaten when the Flash traps her in a copy of the United States Tax Code; and the one where 4D beings with cube-shaped speech bubbles separate Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, Flash, Plastic Man and Martian Manhunter from their secret identities), though I didn't really care for the White Martians arc after it.
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Mar 15, 2015 22:22
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Wheat Loaf posted:I liked the two story arcs which followed "Tower of Babel" (the one where the Queen of Fables kidnaps Wonder Woman, who she mistakes for her ancient enemy Snow White, only to be beaten when the Flash traps her in a copy of the United States Tax Code; and the one where 4D beings with cube-shaped speech bubbles separate Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, Flash, Plastic Man and Martian Manhunter from their secret identities), though I didn't really care for the White Martians arc after it. I agree. Babel's okay if you can get past how dumb the ideas to beat the JL members were ("let's hope Flash and Wonder Woman are so stupid that they do this stupid thing instead of what they would actually do"), but the Split JL was an awesome story (mostly because it focused on Eel O'Brian which is always a treat) and the Queen of Fables was a fun ride.
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Mar 15, 2015 23:38
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Heavens Ladder gets reprinted in one of the trades, and that was really good.
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Mar 16, 2015 00:21
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BrianWilly posted:Now...okay, we make fun of the Finches' new Wonder Woman katars, but I'm gonna say something here that none of you are gonna like: isn't it the exact sort of thing that feels totally appropriate for the Wonder Woman as envisioned by Brian Azzarello? Isn't it the exact logical conclusion of the Wonder Woman world he created that is all about the grimdark and the war and the strife and the bracers that create weapons out of thin air -- all sharp edges and pauldrons and militaristic stances and intimidation -- and not so much about either Wonders or Women? True Azzarello's run is a lot about the turmoil of battle and war. Hell Diana literally becomes God of War a little more than halfway into it. However it is about war not in the sense of it being bloody and brutal, but the flipside - how it can be a means of defense and protection and a rally to bring people together in a time of crisis. Something that Diana does multiple times, most notably with the Amazons in the last few issues. There's no such thing as a good war, but there can be such a thing as a necessary war and conflict always exists and there are many ways to resolve it. God of War, for Diana, is about keeping the balance of both war and peace. The concept is used in a very similar way to the idea of her being an ambassador, like in Rucka's run. This is best shown in the Zero Issue, which shows Diana meeting Ares for the first time. He trains her to fight and show no hesitation in battle and tests her by making her fight a Minotaur. At the end of the battle he tells her to kill it, but she looks into its eyes and takes mercy on it. That is the message Azzarello brings with making her God of War: it's not just about the battle, it's about humanity itself. When is war really necessary? Should mercy be given to enemies, even when they tried to hurt you? Diana takes mercy on many people during Azzarello's run, but knows when mercy is appropriate and when it isn't. This idea that Diana is suddenly hungry for battle is the exact opposite of what Azzarello was aiming for with the concept of God of War. Soule didn't get it either when he wrote her Future's End issue, suddenly turning her into the God of Peace, and the Finches aren't getting it now too. Plus in Azzarello's run, her bracers aren't just to deflect bullets but also restraints that hold back her true power. She takes them off multiple times, gains enormous demigod strength and fights with her bare hands alone. She wears them normally as a means of restraining herself so she doesn't seriously hurt anyone she doesn't want to. Putting swords on them defeats that whole purpose.
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Mar 16, 2015 05:46
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Baron Bifford posted:I remember that arc. I thought Batman's tricks for disabling the JLA were just a tad too outlandish. The best part of Batman ' s plans wasn't in the story itself, but in this Secret Origins/annual issue which shows Talia stealing the plan. And it shows Batman just talking with Kyle like a normal person about his artistic loves. And it's skin crawling the way Batman is listening and turning it into a way of taking down Kyle. It's a real betrayal.
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Mar 16, 2015 12:11
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The Question IRL posted:The best part of Batman ' s plans wasn't in the story itself, but in this Secret Origins/annual issue which shows Talia stealing the plan. And it shows Batman just talking with Kyle like a normal person about his artistic loves. And it's skin crawling the way Batman is listening and turning it into a way of taking down Kyle. It's a real betrayal. One of the best parts of early Injustice was Cyborg realizing Batman infected him with a virus the first week they met, and Killer Croc calling that "pretty evil". It was a nice shade of grey that got thrown out as Superman started becoming more and more of a bad guy. Batman's a loving dick.
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Mar 16, 2015 16:50
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The Question IRL posted:The best part of Batman ' s plans wasn't in the story itself, but in this Secret Origins/annual issue which shows Talia stealing the plan. And it shows Batman just talking with Kyle like a normal person about his artistic loves. And it's skin crawling the way Batman is listening and turning it into a way of taking down Kyle. It's a real betrayal. Imagining Batman having a conversation like that with all the League members and them thinking "hey, maybe there's a real human being under the mask after all" while he's gathering intelligence to sabotage them is pretty much late 90s-mid 2000s "Machiavelli didn't go far enough" manipulative rear end in a top hat Bats in a nutshell.
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Mar 16, 2015 16:51
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The Kyle Rayner thing reminds me of Michael Jordan talking about how being on the Olympic Dream Team was great because it let him learn the weaknesses of the other players on the team to exploit when they went back to the NBA.
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Mar 16, 2015 17:00
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That Batgirl cover is absolutely horrible considering Batgirl is the closest thing DC has to a Ms Marvel type book that can appeal to people who aren't creepy /co/ posters. I get that it's a variant but god drat.
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Mar 16, 2015 18:30
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Lurdiak posted:That Batgirl cover is absolutely horrible considering Batgirl is the closest thing DC has to a Ms Marvel type book that can appeal to people who aren't creepy /co/ posters. I get that it's a variant but god drat. That is the important bit about the whole situation I believe. The best way people has to drive their point across is to simply refuse to pick that variant.
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Mar 16, 2015 18:35
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:That is the important bit about the whole situation I believe. The best way people has to drive their point across is to simply refuse to pick that variant.
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Mar 16, 2015 18:42
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I think at the end of the day it's just another example of how absurdly tone-deaf DC is.
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Mar 16, 2015 18:47
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redbackground posted:Or voice their opinions loud enough ahead of time so they don't even release it (which won't happen--it'll be the one that sells the most, I'm sure.) Well I doubt that DC will change an even if they change it, they are getting a TON of free publicity out of this so doing something like this down the line is likely. IF on the other hand, the variant sells like poo poo they won't do it again. I agree though, is gonna be the best selling comic this june.
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Mar 16, 2015 18:49
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Yes, give the cover tons of attention and a hashtagging campaign and all that. Then it can get picked up by speculators and then other insane speculators can pay 3 digits on ebay for it, giving places like Bleeding Cool more headlines about how doing controversial variants brings in big cash. This campaign to get rid of the cover will work about as well as the campaign to get people to boycott Harley Quinn #1 because of that suicide bathtub thing. It's gonna take some years, because social media is about being loud, not subtle, but these sorts of things are only gonna change at DC by affecting the bottom line through a quiet crash and burn. Loud outrage only makes the other side come out in droves. Think Chik-Fil-A.
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Mar 16, 2015 18:55
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Well look at what Marvel did to the Spider-Woman Manara cover. And compared to the Batgirl cover, that was tame and silly. DC should shelve that cover and apologize for the very idea of it. It's especially a slap to the face considering how they're pushing the Batgirl comic. It's like some rear end in a top hat's way of saying "try to make a comic that will appeal to girls, huh? Well let's be sure to take this character we've pushed as appealing to a female demographic and bring up the time she was sexually assaulted and paralyzed. Oh, and make sure on the cover she's in her new costume and helpless and crying."
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Mar 16, 2015 19:51
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Codependent Poster posted:Well look at what Marvel did to the Spider-Woman Manara cover. And compared to the Batgirl cover, that was tame and silly. Considering that it's a variant cover that has to be specially requested I doubt people buying the comics will ever really see the cover outside of the internet. It isn't like DC is releasing full sized posters of this for stores to plaster all over the walls.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:02
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Codependent Poster posted:Well look at what Marvel did to the Spider-Woman Manara cover. And compared to the Batgirl cover, that was tame and silly. While true, I feel like it would be harder to argue the low success rate of protesting DC if they changed their minds on things like this as much as Marvel does. DC seems to directly get off on controversy as long as things sell. And considering this is a wide variant and not some 1:100 variant that can't earn them that much money, it's just gonna happen no matter how many hashtags get created. So the louder things get, the better for them, because it has directly been proven to them in the past that they'll make more money off of it.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:04
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The whole cover initiative is also focused on collectors. At least on my local shop you have to request the variants at the counter making unlikely that new fans will actually see the cover physically.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:10
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Unrelated to the Batgirl cover(which I agree, totally awful), but Instead of varients, they should release these theme sets as trading cards.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:13
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WickedHate posted:Unrelated to the Batgirl cover(which I agree, totally awful), but Instead of varients, they should release these theme sets as trading cards. I'd pay good money for actual posters of this month's variants.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:17
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:I'd pay good money for actual posters of this month's variants. Ehhh, this may be my bias towards the Joker speaking, but his stuff is way played out and cliche. I guess that fits perfectly with their Steampunk month though.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:34
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WickedHate posted:Unrelated to the Batgirl cover(which I agree, totally awful), but Instead of varients, they should release these theme sets as trading cards. I would have gotten a hardcover of the Allred's variants
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Mar 16, 2015 20:36
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WickedHate posted:Ehhh, this may be my bias towards the Joker speaking, but his stuff is way played out and cliche. I guess that fits perfectly with their Steampunk month though. After playing Arkham Origins I would be totally ok with a 5-year ban on Joker across all media. I am so sick of that clown and his gimmick.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:38
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WickedHate posted:Ehhh, this may be my bias towards the Joker speaking, but his stuff is way played out and cliche. I guess that fits perfectly with their Steampunk month though. I was talking about the movie posters variants 
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Mar 16, 2015 20:41
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Lurdiak posted:After playing Arkham Origins I would be totally ok with a 5-year ban on Joker across all media. I am so sick of that clown and his gimmick. I'm so glad someone else agrees. He's so loving boring and predictable, which as I understand it is the exact opposite of how he should be. Especially after The Dark Knight. I hate anyone named "Landis", but that bit between Superman and the Joker was hilarious and awesome. Dark_Tzitzimine posted:I was talking about the movie posters variants Oh! Yeah, okay, I agree, I love those.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:50
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bobkatt013 posted:I would have gotten a hardcover of the Allred's variants As much as I said I doubt DC will paste full size posters of the Joker variant's around the stores, I do wish they would release posters for their Allred, Cooke and movie theme posters.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:56
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The Dark Knight Returns was one of the best superhero movies of all time, of course they were going to latch onto The Joker. If Rises had been that good we'd be sick of Bane too.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:56
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